Official Rythmik Audio Subwoofer thread - Page 772 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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Old 03-17-2016, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Carrick View Post
Everyone I have decided on the low priced FVX15 but need to know other people's actual experiences in the 12Hz realm. Other forums have said the FVX15 12Hz output is so little that it should not be considered (unlike it's bigger brother Fv15hp ) and I should only compare it against other brands in the 16Hz range. The only reason I want the FVX15 is to get 12Hz on the cheap. So that being said are there any experts here in AVS that have auditioned the FVX15 to assure me that it's worth getting or will I be disappointed.

Total volume for open living and dining rooms is 18x30x8 = 4320, but I can only afford one sub for now and if I need a second one I'll have to wait until almost Christmas.

Thanks
Do slight differences in FR between 2 highly similar 15 inch ported Rythmik subs really matter? Even the LVX12 has a lot in common with those 2.

I would imagine the main appeal of the FV15HP would be more max output and the premium amp controls vs. the more basic compact amp controls on the FVX15.

Honestly, you have to ask yourself whether the significantly higher cost of the FV15HP including shipping is justified by any small differences in FR, which are likely far less significant than the effect of room acoustics and sub eq on FR.

(Of course, there can be other reasons to opt for the FV15HP than FR.)
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Old 03-17-2016, 11:23 AM
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Actually, the FR is the same...

3dB more max output at 20Hz

200W RMS more power (and class H vs. class D on FVX15)

Different driver

More amp controls

(are the difference I can see based on the specs)

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Old 03-17-2016, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
Do slight differences in FR between 2 highly similar 15 inch ported Rythmik subs really matter?
Issue for me is bang for buck in that there are several other brands that do much better at 16Hz for under $1000. So the 12Hz extension parameter is paramount in my decision to get it.
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Old 03-17-2016, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Carrick View Post
Everyone I have decided on the low priced FVX15 but need to know other people's actual experiences in the 12Hz realm. Other forums have said the FVX15 12Hz output is so little that it should not be considered (unlike it's bigger brother Fv15hp ) and I should only compare it against other brands in the 16Hz range. The only reason I want the FVX15 is to get 12Hz on the cheap. So that being said are there any experts here in AVS that have auditioned the FVX15 to assure me that it's worth getting or will I be disappointed.

Total volume for open living and dining rooms is 18x30x8 = 4320, but I can only afford one sub for now and if I need a second one I'll have to wait until almost Christmas.

Thanks
Did you watch the FVX15 Youtube review? Check on minute 10:50 when the reviewer plays Edge Of Tomorrow intro and look at the driver. Not too many subwoofers are capable to do what the FVX15 and the FV15HP do at that frequency.




Enrico Castagnetti @ Rythmik Audio
Media Room: Ascend Acoustics Sierra Towers w/ RAAL, Horizon w/ RAAL & Sierra 2s | Rythmik F12SE (x2) | Marantz SR7008 | Parasound Halo P5 | Emotiva XPA-3 & XPA-200 | Oppo 105D | Sony HW40ES |
Desktop: Dynaudio BM5 mkIII | Rythmik L22 | Apogee Quartet | 27" iMac|
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Old 03-17-2016, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
Do slight differences in FR between 2 highly similar 15 inch ported Rythmik subs really matter?
Issue for me is bang for buck in that there are several other brands that do much better at 16Hz for under $1000. So the 12Hz extension parameter is paramount in my decision to get it.
By much better do you mean max output? Because Rythmiks really shine with SQ more than just max SPL or extension. That's largely due to the direct servo technology that only Rythmik has.
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Old 03-17-2016, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Carrick View Post
Issue for me is bang for buck in that there are several other brands that do much better at 16Hz for under $1000. So the 12Hz extension parameter is paramount in my decision to get it.
In that size room I don't think 12hz will be perceivable. I would opt for one of the other brands if you are only after the most output for your dollar. With that said, there are other great features that separates Rythmik from the rest of the pack.

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Old 03-17-2016, 12:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carrick View Post
Issue for me is bang for buck in that there are several other brands that do much better at 16Hz for under $1000. So the 12Hz extension parameter is paramount in my decision to get it.
In that size room I don't think 12hz will be perceivable. I would opt for one of the other brands if you are only after the most output for your dollar. With that said, there are other great features that separates Rythmik from the rest of the pack.
I agree that Rythmik brings more to the table than just max output and extension. SQ, damping, and various extension and LPF slope controls to name a few.
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Old 03-17-2016, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Carrick View Post
Issue for me is bang for buck in that there are several other brands that do much better at 16Hz for under $1000. So the 12Hz extension parameter is paramount in my decision to get it.
I don't know where you found that information, aside from DIY, on data-bass the only thing that is close to the FVX15 at 16Hz (assuming -3dB from FV15HP and $1K cost) is the RA-PV15X or the HSU and there would be at best +/- 1dB which is a very small difference. If you are looking at getting another in the future, with the FVX15 you would increase the output below 16Hz whereas the others would be limited to their port tune.

All these are good subs and you can't go wrong with any of them. Pick the one that best matches your room, with the warranty you like and give it a go. I really like my FVX15 and am coming from a MFW-15 (not turbo) and think it was a great upgrade. Please post your thoughts on the sub you end up getting.

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Old 03-17-2016, 12:36 PM
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The only reason I want the FVX15 is to get 12Hz on the cheap.
That's an oxymoron I'm afraid, like "government intelligence" or "jumbo shrimp". 12Hz on the cheap would be d@mn near impossible even in the DIY realm, so if that type of depth is your main goal then you might want to explore building something yourself. Even then I suspect you would struggle mightily to achieve 12Hz with any reasonable degree of output in a room that size, but realistically it sounds like it might be the only shot at satisfying your requirement.
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Old 03-17-2016, 12:49 PM
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That's an oxymoron I'm afraid...
Jim I know you are an expert here, have you tested the FVX15? From what has been extrapolated from the Data Bass FV15hp measurements, is getting a FVX for 12Hz extension worth it?
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Old 03-17-2016, 12:50 PM
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When I got my LV12R in October of last year, I also looked at offerings from SVS, HSU, RBH, Outlaw, etc. However, for me the Rythmik was the perfect choice and zero regrets to this day with the sub and customer service.
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Old 03-17-2016, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
Check on minute 10:50 when the reviewer plays Edge Of Tomorrow intro and look at the driver. Not too many subwoofers are capable to do what the FVX15 and the FV15HP do at that frequency.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oallm7RiMPI
Watching this guy's cam made me want to hurl so I could not watch it. I checked it out at 10:50 and it looks impressive. I called your 512 phone number to ask about shipping, why is it free on the FVX and not the FV15hp? Is the FVX on promotion?

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That's an oxymoron I'm afraid, like "government intelligence" or "jumbo shrimp". 12Hz on the cheap would be d@mn near impossible even in the DIY realm, so if that type of depth is your main goal then you might want to explore building something yourself. Even then I suspect you would struggle mightily to achieve 12Hz with any reasonable degree of output in a room that size, but realistically it sounds like it might be the only shot at satisfying your requirement.
OK here I see it after I read it a second time. It's not a review but a good indicator from an expert.

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Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
When I got my LV12R in October of last year, I also looked at offerings from SVS, HSU, RBH, Outlaw, etc. However, for me the Rythmik was the perfect choice and zero regrets to this day with the sub and customer service.
Does this mean you auditioned all of them or you just looked at the published numbers and stats like I have been doing for the last 6 weeks?
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Old 03-17-2016, 01:32 PM
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Jim I know you are an expert here, have you tested the FVX15? From what has been extrapolated from the Data Bass FV15hp measurements, is getting a FVX for 12Hz extension worth it?
One thing is if a subwoofer is capable to reproduce 12Hz and another is if the subwoofer has enough output at 12Hz to fill a 4500 cu ft room. Is the FVX15 capable to reproduce 12Hz? Yes. Does the FVX15 have enough output at 12Hz to fill a 4500 cu ft room? No. I'm afraid that you won't be able to archive that with less than $3000 in subwoofers. Not even a single FV15HP has enough output at 12Hz to fill a 4500 cu ft room. You will need at least 3 x FVX15s to get decent output at 12Hz.
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Media Room: Ascend Acoustics Sierra Towers w/ RAAL, Horizon w/ RAAL & Sierra 2s | Rythmik F12SE (x2) | Marantz SR7008 | Parasound Halo P5 | Emotiva XPA-3 & XPA-200 | Oppo 105D | Sony HW40ES |
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Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
When I got my LV12R in October of last year, I also looked at offerings from SVS, HSU, RBH, Outlaw, etc. However, for me the Rythmik was the perfect choice and zero regrets to this day with the sub and customer service.
I've been reading this thread recently and it has me considering the F12. The servo technology really appeals to me, elegance vs brute force. Had a Velodyne S-1200-B until it died of old age. I have a small room so the size should be way more than enough sound for my needs

I'll probably bounce back and forth between the F12 and the SVS PC-2000 for a while but I find myself more drawn to the F12 each time I visit the website

My next acquisition will be the SVS Ultra bookshelves to go with my Ultra center and I suspect the F12 would match up nicely with ~70Hz crossover... Not an expert opinion just gut feel of an old engineer

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Old 03-17-2016, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Carrick View Post
Watching this guy's cam made me want to hurl so I could not watch it. I checked it out at 10:50 and it looks impressive. I called your 512 phone number to ask about shipping, why is it free on the FVX and not the FV15hp? Is the FVX on promotion?



OK here I see it after I read it a second time. It's not a review but a good indicator from an expert.



Does this mean you auditioned all of them or you just looked at the published numbers and stats like I have been doing for the last 6 weeks?
We offer free shipping on all entry level subwoofers, like the FVX15, LVX12, LV12R, L12 and L22. Both, the FVX15 and the FV15HP are on sale right now. The FVX15 regular price is $999 and it's on sale for $909. The FV15HP regular price is $1339 + shipping and the sale price is $1200 + shipping.



Enrico Castagnetti @ Rythmik Audio
Media Room: Ascend Acoustics Sierra Towers w/ RAAL, Horizon w/ RAAL & Sierra 2s | Rythmik F12SE (x2) | Marantz SR7008 | Parasound Halo P5 | Emotiva XPA-3 & XPA-200 | Oppo 105D | Sony HW40ES |
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Old 03-17-2016, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
One thing is if a subwoofer is capable to reproduce 12Hz and another is if the subwoofer has enough output at 12Hz to fill a 4500 cu ft room. Is the FVX15 capable to reproduce 12Hz? Yes. Does the FVX15 have enough output at 12Hz to fill a 4500 cu ft room? No. I'm afraid that you won't be able to achieve that with less than $3000 in subwoofers. Not even a single FV15HP has enough output at 12Hz to fill a 4500 cu ft room. You will need at least 3 x FVX15s to get decent output at 12Hz.
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We offer free shipping on all entry level subwoofers, like the FVX15, LVX12, LV12R, L12 and L22. Both, the FVX15 and the FV15HP are on sale right now. The FVX15 regular price is $999 and it's on sale for $909. The FV15HP regular price is $1339 + shipping and the sale price is $1200 + shipping.
Thanks Enrico, now I have finally achieved clarity.

So for roughly the same money I can buy either (3) FVX15 or (2) FV15hp, would either choice theoretically achieve 12 Hz in 4500 cuft ?
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Old 03-17-2016, 03:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
When I got my LV12R in October of last year, I also looked at offerings from SVS, HSU, RBH, Outlaw, etc. However, for me the Rythmik was the perfect choice and zero regrets to this day with the sub and customer service.
Does this mean you auditioned all of them or you just looked at the published numbers and stats like I have been doing for the last 6 weeks?
I just researched them online, reading professional reviews, customer reviews, and starting some threads here on AVS.

Ultimately, the direct servo and 19Hz extension of the LV12R appealed to me, plus having way more output than I will ever use (meaning I won't need to push it like with some smaller subs, especially sealed ones) with movies that have ample, loud low bass.

After getting it, I was not only fully satisfied with those attributes, but also, the damping control and LPF slope control, which lets me adjust the SQ of this sub to my tastes and the latter because it can allow more seamless integration with my speakers.

More than anything else, the SQ of these subs are like nothing else comparable and that's why Rythmik subs pair up nicely with just about any speakers on the market.

I'm sure the other brands of sub are also great, but having experienced the Rythmik vs. other similarly priced subs at some local electronic stores, I strongly feel my Rythmik is better.
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Old 03-17-2016, 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Matt2026 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
When I got my LV12R in October of last year, I also looked at offerings from SVS, HSU, RBH, Outlaw, etc. However, for me the Rythmik was the perfect choice and zero regrets to this day with the sub and customer service.
I've been reading this thread recently and it has me considering the F12. The servo technology really appeals to me, elegance vs brute force. Had a Velodyne S-1200-B until it died of old age. I have a small room so the size should be way more than enough sound for my needs

I'll probably bounce back and forth between the F12 and the SVS PC-2000 for a while but I find myself more drawn to the F12 each time I visit the website

My next acquisition will be the SVS Ultra bookshelves to go with my Ultra center and I suspect the F12 would match up nicely with ~70Hz crossover... Not an expert opinion just gut feel of an old engineer
I have the prime bookshelves and center and my LV12R is blending great with them. In fact, I found setting the LPF on the sub to 80Hz and 24dB per octave and then applying sub EQ via REW and the MiniDSP produced excellent results with a 90Hz crossover in the AVR for all speakers. I was able to turn up the sw trim quite a bit this way and with absolutely clean bass. When the LPF was set to max (120Hz), I had to turn the sub down otherwise things sounded bloated. And when the LPF slope was at 12dB per octave, there was a constant annoying boominess in the crossover region that just wouldn't go away with movies like Furious 7.

So, proper integration is key. Otherwise, there is too much overlap between the sub and the very bass capable SVS speakers.

However, once you get it right, it's unbelievably good.
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Old 03-17-2016, 03:30 PM
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I should add though that if you're looking at a PC-2000 (ported cylinder), the corresponding Rythmik would be the LVX12 (ported box).

The F12 while a premium model is sealed and a lot smaller, which means max output at 20Hz and under will be significantly lower and it will have a different kind of sound down low vs. ported designs.

You might actually prefer that but then you should compare it to the SVS SB-2000 (sealed box).
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Old 03-17-2016, 03:49 PM
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I know the FVX12 and LVX15 will offer far more output and deeper extension. However I feel the LV12R would offer enough extension at 19 and output for my room size. Would the aforementioned subs offer a cleaner, more articulate sound in comparison to the LV12R? For me quality of sound is more important that output or extension.

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Old 03-17-2016, 04:23 PM
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Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
One thing is if a subwoofer is capable to reproduce 12Hz and another is if the subwoofer has enough output at 12Hz to fill a 4500 cu ft room. Is the FVX15 capable to reproduce 12Hz? Yes. Does the FVX15 have enough output at 12Hz to fill a 4500 cu ft room? No. I'm afraid that you won't be able to archive that with less than $3000 in subwoofers. Not even a single FV15HP has enough output at 12Hz to fill a 4500 cu ft room. You will need at least 3 x FVX15s to get decent output at 12Hz.
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Thanks Enrico, now I have finally achieved clarity.

So for roughly the same money I can buy either (3) FVX15 or (2) FV15hp, would either choice theoretically achieve 12 Hz in 4500 cuft ?
Enrico beat me to it. His was the exact point I was making, but he conveyed it more eloquently than I did. You need a lot of subwoofer (or more precisely, subwoofers) to reproduce low teens with sufficient output for it to be worthwhile.

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Old 03-17-2016, 04:26 PM
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I know the FVX12 and LVX15 will offer far more output and deeper extension. However I feel the LV12R would offer enough extension at 19 and output for my room size. Would the aforementioned subs offer a cleaner, more articulate sound in comparison to the LV12R? For me quality of sound is more important that output or extension.
Brian's stock in trade is SQ - he's actually a music fanatic, so a lot of his perspective is with that level of detail in mind. I very seriously doubt anything he sells would forgo that ethos.
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Old 03-17-2016, 04:57 PM
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Did you watch the FVX15 Youtube review? Check on minute 10:50 when the reviewer plays Edge Of Tomorrow intro and look at the driver. Not too many subwoofers are capable to do what the FVX15 and the FV15HP do at that frequency.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oallm7RiMPI
that was very entertaining. Thanks, Enrico.

DAC: Wyred4Sound DAC1LE || Processor: Marantz AV8801 11.2 Ch || Power Amps: Audio Research VS110 (100W tube) || Emotiva XPR-2 (600W), Emotiva XPA-5 Gen 2 & UPA-500 (200W/80W) || L/R Speakers: Eminent LFT-8b , Magnepan 2.7, Center : Polk LSiM-704C, Sur: Polk LSiM-703 || Sub 1: Rythmik F25 (800W). Sub 2: Sunfire True Signature TS-EQ12 (2,700W) || Cables: MIT terminator 2 Biwire, 4, Exp; Cardas Crosslink || Power: Panamax M5300 || HP: HifiMan HE560
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Old 03-17-2016, 05:34 PM
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One thing is if a subwoofer is capable to reproduce 12Hz and another is if the subwoofer has enough output at 12Hz to fill a 4500 cu ft room. Is the FVX15 capable to reproduce 12Hz? Yes. Does the FVX15 have enough output at 12Hz to fill a 4500 cu ft room? No. I'm afraid that you won't be able to archive that with less than $3000 in subwoofers. Not even a single FV15HP has enough output at 12Hz to fill a 4500 cu ft room. You will need at least 3 x FVX15s to get decent output at 12Hz.
^^^This.

BUT, you're thinking the right way. Rythmik is the most affordable way to get decent output at 12hz compared to all other subwoofers including DIY.
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Old 03-17-2016, 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post
Brian's stock in trade is SQ - he's actually a music fanatic, so a lot of his perspective is with that level of detail in mind. I very seriously doubt anything he sells would forgo that ethos.
Thanks Jim. Between your stellar review and this answer you pretty much sold me on the Rythmik LV12R. I really like the Rythmik servo technology, as well as the great reviews on their subs. I was considering some of their larger subs along with other brands. However I feel I could save money and get all the performance that I need in the LV12R which was always very high on my list. I just kind of got caught up on so many talking about deep extension and extra output. I doubt I'd come anywhere near pushing the LV12R to it's limits.

Now I just need to save up after unexpected expenses and slow work.
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Old 03-17-2016, 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
One thing is if a subwoofer is capable to reproduce 12Hz and another is if the subwoofer has enough output at 12Hz to fill a 4500 cu ft room. Is the FVX15 capable to reproduce 12Hz? Yes. Does the FVX15 have enough output at 12Hz to fill a 4500 cu ft room? No.
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You need a lot of subwoofer (or more precisely, subwoofers) to reproduce low teens with sufficient output for it to be worthwhile.
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... you're thinking the right way. Rythmik is the most affordable way to get decent output at 12hz compared to all other subwoofers including DIY.
So I have a new idea, what if i sat 2m from the FVX15 and had it facing my seat, would I be able to experience the 12Hz?
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Old 03-17-2016, 06:56 PM
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I've been reading this thread recently and it has me considering the F12. The servo technology really appeals to me, elegance vs brute force. Had a Velodyne S-1200-B until it died of old age. I have a small room so the size should be way more than enough sound for my needs

I'll probably bounce back and forth between the F12 and the SVS PC-2000 for a while but I find myself more drawn to the F12 each time I visit the website

My next acquisition will be the SVS Ultra bookshelves to go with my Ultra center and I suspect the F12 would match up nicely with ~70Hz crossover... Not an expert opinion just gut feel of an old engineer
Might be interested in the thread started by Ross: MINT Rythmik F12 Black Oak subwoofer

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Old 03-17-2016, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
I have the prime bookshelves and center and my LV12R is blending great with them. In fact, I found setting the LPF on the sub to 80Hz and 24dB per octave and then applying sub EQ via REW and the MiniDSP produced excellent results with a 90Hz crossover in the AVR for all speakers. I was able to turn up the sw trim quite a bit this way and with absolutely clean bass. When the LPF was set to max (120Hz), I had to turn the sub down otherwise things sounded bloated. And when the LPF slope was at 12dB per octave, there was a constant annoying boominess in the crossover region that just wouldn't go away with movies like Furious 7.

So, proper integration is key. Otherwise, there is too much overlap between the sub and the very bass capable SVS speakers.

However, once you get it right, it's unbelievably good.
Thanks for the input Plasma,

Well, I'm hoping my 4520CI with Audyssey XT32 will take care of most of that If not, then I'll consider my next step...

Regards, Ken (Retired)
9.1) Denon 4520CI; Samsung 55H8000 & BD-F7500; LRS/L/R SVS Ultra BS, Ultra Center;
RRS Celestion 5; FH & SS Polk; Rythmik F12; CyberPower CP1500PFCLCD (x2)
2.1 Ch.) Nakamichi RE-1, CDC-4A, CR7A, Denon 300F/Ortofon 2M Bronze;
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Old 03-17-2016, 09:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Matt2026 View Post
I've been reading this thread recently and it has me considering the F12. The servo technology really appeals to me, elegance vs brute force. Had a Velodyne S-1200-B until it died of old age. I have a small room so the size should be way more than enough sound for my needs

I'll probably bounce back and forth between the F12 and the SVS PC-2000 for a while but I find myself more drawn to the F12 each time I visit the website

My next acquisition will be the SVS Ultra bookshelves to go with my Ultra center and I suspect the F12 would match up nicely with ~70Hz crossover... Not an expert opinion just gut feel of an old engineer
If SQ is your goal then Rythmik does a great job. I like the F12 a lot. Four times as much as most folk. I find it comparable to subs in the $3k to $5k range (my original target) albeit with less output (not needed in my small room).
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Old 03-17-2016, 11:57 PM
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If SQ is your goal then Rythmik does a great job. I like the F12 a lot. Four times as much as most folk. I find it comparable to subs in the $3k to $5k range (my original target) albeit with less output (not needed in my small room).
Thanks for your input Don,

Looking at the frequency response on the website the F12 is only down 3db at 14Hz, my present sub is rated 29-120Hz frequency response (±3dB), 200WRMS. I don't listen to super loud stuff so I'm not worried about extreme levels of bass. My room is only 1100cuft with a door to the hallway, not hermetically sealed but pretty much the sub only has to pressurize the room.

Regards, Ken (Retired)
9.1) Denon 4520CI; Samsung 55H8000 & BD-F7500; LRS/L/R SVS Ultra BS, Ultra Center;
RRS Celestion 5; FH & SS Polk; Rythmik F12; CyberPower CP1500PFCLCD (x2)
2.1 Ch.) Nakamichi RE-1, CDC-4A, CR7A, Denon 300F/Ortofon 2M Bronze;
ADS L1290(x2); PINNACLE BABYBOOMER SUB, PANAMAX MR4300
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f12g subwoofer , lv12r , Rythmik , Rythmik Audio , Rythmik Audio F12 Direct Servo Subwoofer , Rythmik Audio F15 Subwoofer , servo sub
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