Official Rythmik Audio Subwoofer thread - Page 775 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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Old 03-26-2016, 06:46 PM
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So according to Zeos these are the SVS killers.
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Old 03-26-2016, 07:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bear123 View Post
I'll try to double check and edit the post if needed, but off the top of my head, I believe that 565/(longest room dimension in feet) will give you the approximate frequency in Hz below which room gain will kick in at 8-10 dB per octave.
Correct, you need a half-wavelength, then the signal bouncing off the other wall inverts and adds to the original wave, providing about 6 dB boost (for perfect reflection). Other reflections can provide some additional boost. I do not know for sure, but 10 dB sounds a bit optimistic.

The formula is Fmin = C/(2L) for gain, where C = 1127'/s (dry air, sea level) and L is the longest room dimension

For modes the equation is fm = C/2 * sqrt[(l/L)^2 + (w/W)^2 + (h/H)^2] where L, W, H = room dimensions and l,w,h = 0,1,2,3... to calculate the modes

c/2 = 536.5'/S

HTH - Don

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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Old 03-26-2016, 09:12 PM
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^^ just want to add that the longest room dimension is not just the length of the room measured from one floor to another but measured diagonally from the floor to the ceiling.
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Old 03-27-2016, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by poochpa View Post
I'm trying to decide between the Rythmik F12 or L12 sub. It would be paired with NHT Classic 3 bookshelf speakers and used primarily for listening to classical music. I want a sub that can handle pieces such as Saint Saëns' Organ Symphony, which my present sub bottoms out on. I see the F12 has better extension, down -2 dB at 14 Hz., while the L12 is down -3 dB at 18 Hz., is this a significant difference for classical music? Also, I do not need the additional tone controls of the F12, as I will be using the LFE input and a HT receiver with Audyssey, thus disabling many of the controls on the F12's A370PEQ3 amp. Finally, while there is a considerable difference in price, I'm not adverse to buying the F12 if it will result in better sound. Thanks for any help.
Mike
Just thought I'd chime in here, since I have Classic 3's paired with a Rythmik F15 (the lower power version of the F15HP, my F15 isn't available anymore) and the sound is spectacular! I listen to classical, rock, and jazz mostly (including some orchestral pieces with pipe organ). At the low-to-moderate volumes at which I listen, I've never felt that I was even coming close to taxing the system so I suspect the +2 dB advantage my F15 has over and F12 is irrelevant.

Sorry, I've never heard the L12 so I can't give an opinion about that, but I LOVE the F15/Classic 3 combination!
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Old 03-27-2016, 04:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Eldave View Post
Just thought I'd chime in here, since I have Classic 3's paired with a Rythmik F15 (the lower power version of the F15HP, my F15 isn't available anymore) and the sound is spectacular! I listen to classical, rock, and jazz mostly (including some orchestral pieces with pipe organ). At the low-to-moderate volumes at which I listen, I've never felt that I was even coming close to taxing the system so I suspect the +2 dB advantage my F15 has over and F12 is irrelevant.

Sorry, I've never heard the L12 so I can't give an opinion about that, but I LOVE the F15/Classic 3 combination!
Thanks Dave (and Don and Jim) for your input on this. Looks like F12 is the way to go.
Mike
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Old 03-29-2016, 05:48 AM
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Originally Posted by poochpa View Post
Looks like F12 is the way to go.Mike
May is suggest another point of view? Sounds like the F12 is the way to go!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Magnepan 1.7's (LR), Magnepan CC5/DWM (Center Channel), Magnepan MC1's (Surrounds), Rythmik F12 (Sub), Emotiva XMC-1 (Processor), Emotiva XPA-2 Gen2 Drives the 1.7's, Emotiva XPA-5 Drives the Center and Surrounds, Oppo BDP-103, Sony PS4
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Old 03-29-2016, 08:32 AM
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I'm just going to drop an evil thought here for poochpa: if an F12 is in your range, 2 L12s are just *a little* more cost but would offer more output and smoother room response. Does your Audyssey do the dual sub management?

Life is Lambertian
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Old 03-29-2016, 08:56 AM
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Originally Posted by 12B4A View Post
I'm just going to drop an evil thought here for poochpa: if an F12 is in your range, 2 L12s are just *a little* more cost but would offer more output and smoother room response. Does your Audyssey do the dual sub management?
12B4A,
Yup, I agree two subs would be better, as the room is 5300 cu. ft. However, I can't do it b/c of placement issues and my Audyssey does not do dual sub mgt.

Stustan,
I see you're lukewarm on the F12.

What finish did you F12 owners go with?
Mike
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Old 03-29-2016, 11:09 AM
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The brown oak for my first pair, no longer available. Black oak for my second pair. See how addictive this can be? I am not clean enough (don't dust often enough) for glossy black and the black oak is a pretty good look in my media room.
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"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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Old 03-29-2016, 12:41 PM
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L22 vs LVX12

Can anyone tell me how an L22 will compare to the LVX 12. My listening space is about 5000 cubic feet. I know ideally i should be looking at a ported 15, but i don't have much space to work with and neither would i play it too loud to avoid any noise complaints. Price is also a factor. I listen to mostly music. Say about 75% music and 25% movies in a stereo setup with PSB X2T towers.

I like the small footprint of the L22 but would the ported design suit my large space better? The FVX15 may also be an option but i was aiming at going for a smaller sub due to my space and budget. I'm in Canada so shipping is also a factor.

I've just found a used minidsp 2x4 so now is the time to look into a sub for my setup.

NAD D1050 > NAD C320BEE / MiniDSP 2x4 > PSB X2T's / Rythmik FVX15
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Old 03-29-2016, 01:43 PM
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Am I getting enough midbass ?

My setup consist of a "large" bookshelf with a 7 inch woofer crossed at 80hz to an F15.

Now I am wondering if my setup would improve by

1. Getting a 3 way floorstander with a at least 1 or 2 eight inch woofers
2. Keep the F15 (20 to 50 hz ) and bookshelf (150 hz to 20K HZ) and add a pair off Rythmik F8. (50 to 150 hz)
Edit: added third option
3. Keep the F15 (20 Hz to 40 hz) and bookshelf (150 hz to 20K HZ) and add a pair off Rythmik F12 with the GR research driver. (40 hz to 150 hz)

Last edited by qguy; 03-29-2016 at 05:58 PM.
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Old 03-29-2016, 01:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qguy View Post
Am I getting enough midbass ?

My setup consist of a "large" bookshelf with a 7 inch woofer crossed at 80hz to an F15.

Now I am wondering if my setup would improve by

1. Getting a 3 way floorstander with a at least 1 or 2 eight inch woofers
2. Keep the F15 and bookshelf and add the Rythmik F8.
have you used rew? I am not an expert, but believe bigger is better for high spl's

my focal towers keep up with spl pretty flat at the highest levels I listen to my system(they have 2x 8in drivers)

attached is a flawed rew attempt but gives you an idea of the system going over 100db spl across the frequency range...still tweaking...
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	rythmik.jpg
Views:	70
Size:	95.9 KB
ID:	1346898  

Power: Marantz sr7008, NAD C 275Bee x 2, Video: Oppo 103, Samsung 75un6300
Speakers: Focal aria 948, Focal cc800v, Klipsch synergy KSF 10.5 Subs: Velodyne HGS 12, VA 1512, Rythmik FV15HP
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Old 03-29-2016, 08:03 PM
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FVX15 FV15hp FV18hp get now or wait for 18"?

Not sure I can wait 6-9 months to enjoy some serious FV18hp bass, so if I don't play loud music or movies which should I get?
The FVX is kinda rare here so its resale value is uncertain, the only temptation is it's $909 shipped compared to the FV15hp at $1340, but is the 12Hz usable since it's ~94dB?
I wish there was someone here who has auditioned both to help me decide if the FVX is a waste of $$ if I won't get decent 12Hz LFE. Also considering moving the HT to my bedroom (16x13x9) to avoid the open concept living room pressurization headache.

Other non Rythmik options don't have 12Hz capability and so a non-starter. They may have better parts, more power, etc. but tuned at 16Hz is not what I am looking for.

I may start a new thread asking what subs have been tested to 12Hz with SPL scores and cost under $2000. Thanks and apologies for my rambling.
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Old 03-29-2016, 08:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carrick View Post
Other non Rythmik options don't have 12Hz capability and so a non-starter. They may have better parts, more power, etc. but tuned at 16Hz is not what I am looking for.

I may start a new thread asking what subs have been tested to 12Hz with SPL scores and cost under $2000. Thanks and apologies for my rambling.
If you're really fixated on 12Hz then check out the Danley DTS or a Gjallarhorn. For the output you're looking for those are the type of subwoofers you really need to consider. DIY is the only way to get something like that for under 2 grand though.

If you take yourself too seriously, expect me to do the exact opposite
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Old 03-29-2016, 09:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Carrick View Post
Not sure I can wait 6-9 months to enjoy some serious FV18hp bass, so if I don't play loud music or movies which should I get?
The FVX is kinda rare here so its resale value is uncertain, the only temptation is it's $909 shipped compared to the FV15hp at $1340, but is the 12Hz usable since it's ~94dB?
I wish there was someone here who has auditioned both to help me decide if the FVX is a waste of $$ if I won't get decent 12Hz LFE. Also considering moving the HT to my bedroom (16x13x9) to avoid the open concept living room pressurization headache.

Other non Rythmik options don't have 12Hz capability and so a non-starter. They may have better parts, more power, etc. but tuned at 16Hz is not what I am looking for.

I may start a new thread asking what subs have been tested to 12Hz with SPL scores and cost under $2000. Thanks and apologies for my rambling.
@Carrick .


Just wondering why you are concerned about 12Hz when you say that you don't listen to music or movies loud?. I am not sure if you can listen to a 12hz note irrespective of the loudness levels. Are you sure you know exactly what you want and not getting carried away with sub fanatics on online forums? Lol. Please accept my apologies in advance if I am coming across as rude but that is not my intention.

Thanks
Ron
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Old 03-30-2016, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Carrick View Post
Not sure I can wait 6-9 months to enjoy some serious FV18hp bass, so if I don't play loud music or movies which should I get?
The FVX is kinda rare here so its resale value is uncertain, the only temptation is it's $909 shipped compared to the FV15hp at $1340, but is the 12Hz usable since it's ~94dB?
I wish there was someone here who has auditioned both to help me decide if the FVX is a waste of $$ if I won't get decent 12Hz LFE. Also considering moving the HT to my bedroom (16x13x9) to avoid the open concept living room pressurization headache.

Other non Rythmik options don't have 12Hz capability and so a non-starter. They may have better parts, more power, etc. but tuned at 16Hz is not what I am looking for.

I may start a new thread asking what subs have been tested to 12Hz with SPL scores and cost under $2000. Thanks and apologies for my rambling.
If it were me for my room? I'd definitely wait.

I went through the same decision between a cap 2400 (passive) and the fv15hp. Since I already had dual 21s, it wasn't output I was looking for...but extension and ported nearfield. I had outlaw lfm1exs that extended to 16hz, and wanted to try lower extension nearfield.

The cap provides massive output, but doesn't extend as low as the fv15hp. Since I didn't need more output, I ultimately went for the ported extension.

My room gets really energized in the 10-20hz range, come to find out after I got the fv15hp.

In room, I've hit 115db at 10hz with the dual FV15HP's.

All that being said, it's highly room (couch, et al) dependent for deep extension and tactile response.
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Old 03-30-2016, 10:15 AM
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The FV18 will have more output below 20Hz, around 3dB - 4dB more than FV15HP @ 12Hz. Above 20Hz it will be very similar to FV15HP. However, if somebody is looking for massive output at 12Hz I would save more money and hold on to the FV25HP. The FV25HP would have around +9dB more than FV15HP @ 12Hz, so we are talking 108dB @ 12Hz. Kinda Danley DTS-10 output numbers.



Enrico Castagnetti @ Rythmik Audio
Media Room: Polk LSiM705s, LSiM706C, LSiM703s | Rythmik F12SE (x2) | Marantz SR7008 | Parasound Halo P5 | Emotiva XPA-3 & XPA-200 | Oppo 105D | Sony HW40ES |
Desktop: Dynaudio BM5 mkIII | Rythmik L22 | Apogee Duet | 27" iMac|
Bedroom: B&W 685 S2 | Rythmik LVX12 | Marantz NR1606 | Emotiva XPA-200 Gen 2 | Samsung UN50JU6500 |
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Old 03-30-2016, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qguy View Post
Am I getting enough midbass ?

My setup consist of a "large" bookshelf with a 7 inch woofer crossed at 80hz to an F15.

Now I am wondering if my setup would improve by

1. Getting a 3 way floorstander with a at least 1 or 2 eight inch woofers
2. Keep the F15 (20 to 50 hz ) and bookshelf (150 hz to 20K HZ) and add a pair off Rythmik F8. (50 to 150 hz)
Edit: added third option
3. Keep the F15 (20 Hz to 40 hz) and bookshelf (150 hz to 20K HZ) and add a pair off Rythmik F12 with the GR research driver. (40 hz to 150 hz)
My guess is you are fine now, but only you can decide what "enough" is, and I assume your bookshelf speakers are decent. Personally I would not add to the complexity of the system by adding another "midbass" subwoofer; if I were adding subs it would be to smooth the room response.

There are many variables that dictate speaker performance and size is only one. Excursion, mass, stiffness, a myriad of things. Chances are an 8" woofer is not going to do much more than a 7" woofer unless the 8" is a better driver in a better design.

What bookshelf do you own now, and what is its -3 dB point? You may benefit from a better speaker, but it does not follow that it would have a larger woofer.

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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Old 03-30-2016, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qguy View Post
Am I getting enough midbass ?

My setup consist of a "large" bookshelf with a 7 inch woofer crossed at 80hz to an F15.

Now I am wondering if my setup would improve by

1. Getting a 3 way floorstander with a at least 1 or 2 eight inch woofers
2. Keep the F15 (20 to 50 hz ) and bookshelf (150 hz to 20K HZ) and add a pair off Rythmik F8. (50 to 150 hz)
Edit: added third option
3. Keep the F15 (20 Hz to 40 hz) and bookshelf (150 hz to 20K HZ) and add a pair off Rythmik F12 with the GR research driver. (40 hz to 150 hz)

You ask if you're getting enough midbass. Do YOU feel you are? That's what matters. How can anyone here answer that question for you ;-)?! The thought of trying to get a monitor speaker, a midbass woofer, and a sub all synched in phase makes my head hurt.
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Old 03-30-2016, 01:39 PM
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Bookshelf are Usher X-719, (-3 dB) 38 Hz ~ 28 kHz

so if Midbass module is not ideal, changing my bookshelf to something like the VR4 Jr would be better ?

Vr4 JR - http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazin...ikertvr4jr.htm

Thanks...



Quote:
Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post
My guess is you are fine now, but only you can decide what "enough" is, and I assume your bookshelf speakers are decent. Personally I would not add to the complexity of the system by adding another "midbass" subwoofer; if I were adding subs it would be to smooth the room response.

There are many variables that dictate speaker performance and size is only one. Excursion, mass, stiffness, a myriad of things. Chances are an 8" woofer is not going to do much more than a 7" woofer unless the 8" is a better driver in a better design.

What bookshelf do you own now, and what is its -3 dB point? You may benefit from a better speaker, but it does not follow that it would have a larger woofer.
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Old 03-30-2016, 02:57 PM
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That speaker has pretty decent reviews and specs, e.g. http://www.stereophile.com/content/u...Z21hZbWWj7U.97 An 80 Hz crossover should be fine.

I'm with BDP24 on this. What makes you think midbass is lacking? If it is, and you may not really know without measuring using REW or something, I suspect room and sub/mains integration more than either speaker's response. I think trying to integrate your main speakers, subwoofer(s), and pair of low-frequency "woofers" would be a nightmare.

How did you integrate the subwoofer(s)? Are you using an AVR with something like ARC, Audyssey, MCACC, YPAO, or other room correction system? If so, you may want to mount the mic on a tripod, facing the ceiling, at ear height at the MLP, and run the calibration again. Or just bump the midbass EQ to taste. It sounds to me like a calibration/integration issue and even that may be on the mains and not the sub.

FWIWFM - Don

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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Old 03-30-2016, 03:05 PM
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Am I getting enough midbass ?
If you feel like midbass is lacking then it is. If you dont then its not.
If you want to know technically then measure.
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Old 03-30-2016, 03:07 PM
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Using a Vintage Receiver. Pre-out of of Receiver goes into the Inputs of the F15, HPF at 80z out of the F15 goes back to the Receiver....only have ears to measure will play around with the crossover/gain of the F15, see if I can make things better...

I tested the system before w/o using the HPF and driving the bookshelf full range, it sounds better on Music, sadly this setup cannot be use for HT as the low frequency of movies will eventually kill the bookshelf's woofer.

Last edited by qguy; 03-30-2016 at 03:58 PM.
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Old 03-30-2016, 04:15 PM
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If it were me for my room? I'd definitely wait...In room, I've hit 115db at 10hz with the dual FV15HP's.
Saw your video and it was intense, hard to understand what 5Hz must be like with your 21" subs. DIY is another option which yields 94dB @ 12.5Hz, but I'll still wait if you say it's a good move, so I can see what the FV18 and FV25 bring to the table.

Quote:
Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
The FV18 will have more output below 20Hz, around 3dB - 4dB more than FV15HP @ 12Hz. Above 20Hz it will be very similar to FV15HP. However, if somebody is looking for massive output at 12Hz I would save more money and hold on to the FV25HP. The FV25HP would have around +9dB more than FV15HP @ 12Hz, so we are talking 108dB @ 12Hz. Kinda Danley DTS-10 output numbers.
Kinda expected a higher price, when will they be ready to pre-order?
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Old 03-30-2016, 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by poochpa View Post
I'm trying to decide between the Rythmik F12 or L12 sub. It would be paired with NHT Classic 3 bookshelf speakers and used primarily for listening to classical music. I want a sub that can handle pieces such as Saint Saëns' Organ Symphony, which my present sub bottoms out on. I see the F12 has better extension, down -2 dB at 14 Hz., while the L12 is down -3 dB at 18 Hz., is this a significant difference for classical music? Also, I do not need the additional tone controls of the F12, as I will be using the LFE input and a HT receiver with Audyssey, thus disabling many of the controls on the F12's A370PEQ3 amp. Finally, while there is a considerable difference in price, I'm not adverse to buying the F12 if it will result in better sound. Thanks for any help.
Mike
How big is your room? If it is on the large side, a small 12" sealed sub might not play down into the teens with enough clean output for your needs.
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Old 03-30-2016, 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post
If you're really fixated on 12Hz then check out the Danley DTS or a Gjallarhorn. For the output you're looking for those are the type of subwoofers you really need to consider. DIY is the only way to get something like that for under 2 grand though.
He wants to listen to 12 Hz quietly. 12 Hz is better than all other frequencies.
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Old 03-30-2016, 06:11 PM
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Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post
If you're really fixated on 12Hz...
Not sure why I am, just seems to be a gold standard that Rythmik has exploited for over a decade, so I hope I am not disappointed.

It's like when I bought my used 1990 Mustang and my friends talked me into installing over $10k in parts (BBK ceramic headers, hi-lift cam, Edelbrock intake, Nitto drag radials, JW stall converter, C4 tranny, you get the point, etc, etc). It was tons of fun doing 0-60 in 3.8 seconds and 12s at the strip.

I also owned a professionally "built" 2004 Yamaha R1 with 206 rwhp that was faster and did high 9s at the strip, but the Mustang was more fun. I sure miss those days and I've owned many vehicles costing from a low $500 '73 Impala rust bucket up to $75k 2007 BMW X5.

I hope this investment yields a big grin on my face just like my old 'stang did.
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Old 03-30-2016, 07:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Carrick View Post
Not sure why I am, just seems to be a gold standard that Rythmik has exploited for over a decade, so I hope I am not disappointed.

It's like when I bought my used 1990 Mustang and my friends talked me into installing over $10k in parts (BBK ceramic headers, hi-lift cam, Edelbrock intake, Nitto drag radials, JW stall converter, C4 tranny, you get the point, etc, etc). It was tons of fun doing 0-60 in 3.8 seconds and 12s at the strip.

I also owned a professionally "built" 2004 Yamaha R1 with 206 rwhp that was faster and did high 9s at the strip, but the Mustang was more fun. I sure miss those days and I've owned many vehicles costing from a low $500 '73 Impala rust bucket up to $75k 2007 BMW X5.

I hope this investment yields a big grin on my face just like my old 'stang did.

I empathize with your need for high performance and excellence. You've come to the right place, with like-minded fellas! I miss my old 528e, but the cost to keep it running just started to become too much. Now I'm lusting for a Whipple blower to bolt onto my Chevy small block!
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Old 03-30-2016, 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by dcolaco View Post
Can anyone tell me how an L22 will compare to the LVX 12. My listening space is about 5000 cubic feet. I know ideally i should be looking at a ported 15, but i don't have much space to work with and neither would i play it too loud to avoid any noise complaints. Price is also a factor. I listen to mostly music. Say about 75% music and 25% movies in a stereo setup with PSB X2T towers.

I like the small footprint of the L22 but would the ported design suit my large space better? The FVX15 may also be an option but i was aiming at going for a smaller sub due to my space and budget. I'm in Canada so shipping is also a factor.

I've just found a used minidsp 2x4 so now is the time to look into a sub for my setup.
From following this thread, I think only handful of people at most actually have the Lvx12 since it's new, so there aren't many people that can speak on it. Looks like a lot more have the fvx15. I think most here would probably recommend the fvx15 to you, though, based on the size of your space. Spec-wise, it seems like the Lvx12 is still a really good deal and a solid performer.

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Old 03-30-2016, 08:08 PM
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Originally Posted by qguy View Post
Using a Vintage Receiver. Pre-out of of Receiver goes into the Inputs of the F15, HPF at 80z out of the F15 goes back to the Receiver....only have ears to measure will play around with the crossover/gain of the F15, see if I can make things better...

I tested the system before w/o using the HPF and driving the bookshelf full range, it sounds better on Music, sadly this setup cannot be use for HT as the low frequency of movies will eventually kill the bookshelf's woofer.
An external room correction box like the MiniDSP DDRC-88A maybe the the item you're looking for.

Dirac Live has adjustable room correction curves that one can tailor to taste, including a bit more slam in the mid-bass region.

Marantz SR-7009, Oppo BPD-93, MTV 7000D, aTV, Harmony Home Control remote, KEF E301+T101, MiniDSP (2x4)+(10x10HD)+(DDRC-88A), Emotiva 2xXPA-5 (Gen2), Rythmik 2xF12G+2xF8, HiMedia Q16, LG 55EC9300.
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f12g subwoofer , lv12r , Rythmik , Rythmik Audio , Rythmik Audio F12 Direct Servo Subwoofer , Rythmik Audio F15 Subwoofer , servo sub
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