Official Rythmik Audio Subwoofer thread - Page 781 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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Old 04-10-2016, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by primetime74 View Post
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Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
Since the price difference between the latter 2 is just $110, if size and weight don't matter to you, the 15 inch would likely be the more capable sub and being so, that extra $110 would buy you more sub than the $230 going from the LV12R to LVX12.

(Between those 2 and the LV12R is a bit trickier since the price difference is $230-$340.)

Personally, I don't like the idea of mild/incremental upgrades because I did that with several TVs (5 or so) over the years, and in the end there were all roughly the same, just with different pros and cons.

With audio, I went from a Yamaha YHT-399UBL HTiB with cube speakers and 8 inch 50W sub to Sony Cores and Dayton SUB-1200 to SVS Prime and LV12R. Those upgrades were huge by comparison and now that the next equivalent upgrade is out of my budget by a big amount I'm very satisfied with where I've ended up.

If I had done the same with my TV, I would likely have a very nice mid level TV right now ($1200-ish) vs. the reasonably good but basic one I have now ($700-ish).

So, in a nutshell, I think small upgrades are not as meaningful as larger ones.

(If it was me, it would either be the LV12R or FVX15 or 2 LV12Rs.)
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Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
For some quick numbers, you gain 4dB max output at 20Hz going from LV12R to FVX15.

By comparison, going from LV12R to LVX12 is just a 1.5dB gain.

(Not really surprising though since a 15 inch sub vs. a 12 inch one is going to have more output down low.)

Now if a 15 inch sub weighing 120lbs is a deal breaker, then that's where the LVX12 shines since it's essentially a 12 inch version of the FVX15 with 14Hz extension vs. 12Hz on the FVX15.
For me the size or weight isn't an issue, not too sure how my fiancee will feel. You make an excellent point about spending the extra $$$ for the FVX15 instead of the LVX12 unless weight/size are factors.

As of now I have a few things to payoff(damn tires), then I can really figure out which sub works for me. So money may or may not be an issue as to which sub I buy. I'm looking to buy a home in the next year or two which may also factor in to which sub. A house, I'd certainly prefer the bigger sub. A condo, probably the smaller sub depending on lay out, neighbors, etc.

I also am not sure I listen to quite the levels which would require the larger sub.
Good luck with whichever sub you end up choosing... I'm sure you will be very pleasantly surprised by how much of a difference adding a sub can produce, especially one that has excellent SQ and plays down to (at least) 20Hz.

And quality subs are not just for HT, they add plenty to music as well.
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Old 04-10-2016, 07:38 PM
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Anyone ever had a bass note in a film hit you so hard in the chest it had you thinking about death? lmao😂 well since i had my sub pointing at the wall i gained a nice response, no localization and perfect phase letting me feel the bass hits in the movies i watch.

i removed my Minidsp2x4 and gained back the db i lost, plus having both Line in ports connected to by AVR that extra 6db combined with it already turned up 5 clicks from 12 o'clock on the gain because of the DSP db loss had me sitting in a corner thinking if i can get brain damage from bass after randomly clicking on a scene in Loudformers 3 and getting kocked over haha.

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Fronts - Klipsch Reference Premiere RP-280F
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- Klipsch Reference Premiere RP-450C
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Sub - Rythmik FV15HP
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Old 04-10-2016, 08:18 PM
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Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
In case your curious what the end result looks like with my sub and room after sub EQ (AVR crossover at 90Hz):

That's pretty dang flat and you have a perfectly square room? I'd say that's good cutting with a scalpel and not a chainsaw ! I've got my setup pretty much all figured out and done now thanks to you. It saves me from having to email Brian as well. I like the sound of the Direct Servo. It's taking a bit of getting used to though because it sound so different from my other subs but I like it. It's like a rainbow of low frequencies is the best way I can describe it and I haven't even cranked it up yet. Just watching some original Terminator on Blu Ray. I watch that movie like once a week !

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Old 04-11-2016, 06:48 AM
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Enjoy your sub... I'm still pleasantly surprised by mine whenever I put in a good movie.

And yes, direct servo makes the sub sound very different from non-servo subs and for the better.
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Old 04-11-2016, 07:30 AM
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That's pretty dang flat and you have a perfectly square room? I'd say that's good cutting with a scalpel and not a chainsaw!
The blue line shows exactly what the cutting looks like, which is essentially the inverse of the frequency response before EQ. I also showed the 6 filters that create that blue line when summed.

(Only downside to cutting this much is the need to increase gain considerably.)
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UN46EH6030 Calibration/Settings
Samsung UN46EH6030; Yamaha HTR-3066, SVS Prime Bookshelf Mains and Prime Center, Rythmik LV12R; PS4, Xbox One, Motorola RNG150N
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Old 04-11-2016, 11:34 AM
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LV12R Review (also on Rythmik website)

I got this sub last October to replace a Dayton Audio SUB-1200, which is also a 12" ported sub like the LV12R. Prior to that, the only subs I've owned come from entry level HTiBs (home theater in a box) which are not even worth comparing to the LV12R. Compared to the Dayton, the LV12R has a much cleaner, deeper, more powerful sound that doesn't sound like any other sub I've heard before. And by that, I mean it blends so well with my speakers (currently SVS prime bookshelves and center) that it seems more like the speakers extend down to 20Hz or lower.

Thanks to the bass extension switch on the back of the sub, I can go from intense, 'full body' HT sound for movies, TV shows, and video games to very clean, fast, 'articulate' sound for serious 2ch music listening. And of course, I can use any kind of sound for any kind of source if I please with this simple to use 3 position switch. I also find the LPF (crossover) slope switch to be a useful feature since it can help this sub better blend with my speakers based on content, preferences, and setup.

Anyhow, what matters most is that this sub provides a kind of bass that is unlike that found on most subs thanks to its unbelievable sound quality (thanks to direct servo) and flexible amp controls like bass extension/damping and LPF/crossover slope. Add to that excellent build quality and very impressive, fast and responsive customer service. I don't think I'll be needing another sub as long as this one works (it's that good!). And if/when I do, it will definitely be another Rythmik!

UN46EH6030 Calibration/Settings
Samsung UN46EH6030; Yamaha HTR-3066, SVS Prime Bookshelf Mains and Prime Center, Rythmik LV12R; PS4, Xbox One, Motorola RNG150N
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Old 04-11-2016, 11:36 AM
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^(I decided to finally write an official review for my LV12R.)
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UN46EH6030 Calibration/Settings
Samsung UN46EH6030; Yamaha HTR-3066, SVS Prime Bookshelf Mains and Prime Center, Rythmik LV12R; PS4, Xbox One, Motorola RNG150N
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Old 04-12-2016, 01:20 AM
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Brian/Enrico,

Looking on the Rythmik website, at the performance and specification for the F15HP, is it correct that the frequency response is: 10Hz - 250Hz (+/-3db) with LFE inputs?

Or should the frequency response be: 14Hz - 250Hz (-2db) with LFE inputs?

Thanks.

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Old 04-12-2016, 07:48 AM
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I believe that was discussed in this thread, somewhere... I personally think that line in the spec should be removed. If you take the +3 dB point at the peak of midband response, and -3 dB at band edges, then you can achieve 10 Hz. (That is also what I said in the other thread.) To me that is a case of being technically accurate but misleading in practice. Not that a lot of other speakers (and other things) don't do it, but still...

IMO - Don
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Old 04-12-2016, 08:26 AM
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Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post
I believe that was discussed in this thread, somewhere... I personally think that line in the spec should be removed. If you take the +3 dB point at the peak of midband response, and -3 dB at band edges, then you can achieve 10 Hz. (That is also what I said in the other thread.) To me that is a case of being technically accurate but misleading in practice. Not that a lot of other speakers (and other things) don't do it, but still...

IMO - Don
Well, on the LVX12/FVX15/FV15HP, both -2dB and -6dB points are quoted on the low end.

On the LV12R, however, a plus or minus 2dB spec is used. Which leads me to wonder if it's a -2dB or -4dB point.
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Old 04-12-2016, 08:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steveting99 View Post
Brian/Enrico,

Looking on the Rythmik website, at the performance and specification for the F15HP, is it correct that the frequency response is: 10Hz - 250Hz (+/-3db) with LFE inputs?

Or should the frequency response be: 14Hz - 250Hz (-2db) with LFE inputs?

Thanks.

There are multiple ways of FR specification. We can say +/-3db. But that is same as 0db/-6db. Basically you just move the reference. There are too many manufactures sneak in +/-3db number without letting customers know the difference between +3db/-3db vs 0db/-3db. It is a huge difference because the -3db in +3db/-3db is more like -6db in the 0db/-6db spec. We had assumed other manufacturers will use number of 0db/-3db to publish their -3db. But it turns out not and you know the reason. We keep both specs so the customers can easily compare.


I added "14Hz - 250Hz (0db/-2db) with LFE inputs" for clarification.
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Old 04-12-2016, 08:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
Well, on the LVX12/FVX15/FV15HP, both -2dB and -6dB points are quoted on the low end.

On the LV12R, however, a plus or minus 2dB spec is used. Which leads me to wonder if it's a -2dB or -4dB point.

The convention is if it is plus/minus notation, then it can only be used for a frequency range. But if it is just a -2db or -6db point, it should be taken relative to the highest point in FR. At least that is convention we'd like to follow.
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Old 04-12-2016, 12:34 PM
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Thanks for the clarification Brian. Too many people do not understand the numbers and so you have to present similar specs to remain competitive, understood. But, blah!

IME it is much worse for speakers; FR specs tend to be all over the map.
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Old 04-12-2016, 02:08 PM
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+1, I agree... Audioholics just did an article and video on how the average speaker company shows frequency response measurements... I understand the need to show measurements in a way that is consistent with the competition to allow apples to apples comparisons.
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Old 04-12-2016, 03:18 PM
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My computer speakers with 4 inch "subwoofer" is listed as 20 to - 20,000hz

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IME it is much worse for speakers; FR specs tend to be all over the map.
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Old 04-12-2016, 03:56 PM
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Technically, a tweeter has 20Hz extension... but you would likely need to be Ant Man to hear it.
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Old 04-12-2016, 05:07 PM
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Technically, a tweeter has 20Hz extension..
Of course that depends on the tweeter.
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Old 04-13-2016, 04:03 AM
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+1, I agree... Audioholics just did an article and video on how the average speaker company shows frequency response measurements... I understand the need to show measurements in a way that is consistent with the competition to allow apples to apples comparisons.

Danny Richie at GR Research uses 5dB division graphs, which makes smaller differences in frequency response more visible than does the industry standard 10dB, but makes sure to point that out when doing so.
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Old 04-13-2016, 08:10 AM
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Hi guys,

I'm looking at getting an L22. Any L22 owners out there that can give me their input?

Thanks,
Brandon
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Old 04-14-2016, 08:43 PM
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Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
The blue line shows exactly what the cutting looks like, which is essentially the inverse of the frequency response before EQ. I also showed the 6 filters that create that blue line when summed.

(Only downside to cutting this much is the need to increase gain considerably.)
Yeah those are some deep cuts. You weren't exaggerating when you said you had a difficult space to tame LF wise. Good job. I have been reading this whole forum from beginning to end past few days( my eye's are tired.) Lots of really smart people giving some good tips. I've messed with the bass extension a bit(some here prefer high, medium for movies instead of low.) Nice to be able to just flip a switch on a sub and get a different sounding sub. I read your review also. There's just so much misinformation out there about servo subs in general (none mentions Rythmik's designs specifically) that I'm glad I now finally personally own one so I can talk from first hand experience when asked about them from now on. Lot of haters out there for servo subs. This thing literally dropped my jaw the minute I hooked it up and played some content so obviously that hate is misguided. Glad I read and listened to the pro reviews and finally made the jump.

-Tom

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Old 04-15-2016, 06:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Madmax67 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
The blue line shows exactly what the cutting looks like, which is essentially the inverse of the frequency response before EQ. I also showed the 6 filters that create that blue line when summed.

(Only downside to cutting this much is the need to increase gain considerably.)
Yeah those are some deep cuts. You weren't exaggerating when you said you had a difficult space to tame LF wise. Good job. I have been reading this whole forum from beginning to end past few days( my eye's are tired.) Lots of really smart people giving some good tips. I've messed with the bass extension a bit(some here prefer high, medium for movies instead of low.) Nice to be able to just flip a switch on a sub and get a different sounding sub. I read your review also. There's just so much misinformation out there about servo subs in general (none mentions Rythmik's designs specifically) that I'm glad I now finally personally own one so I can talk from first hand experience when asked about them from now on. Lot of haters out there for servo subs. This thing literally dropped my jaw the minute I hooked it up and played some content so obviously that hate is misguided. Glad I read and listened to the pro reviews and finally made the jump.

-Tom

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I'd say anyone who claims not to like servo subs or is critical of them has clearly never heard a Rythmik and if they did, it wasn't long enough for their ears/brain to adapt to the very different sound.

I liked mine from the get go (since first movie watched). However, with my SVS Prime speakers I needed more listening before I ended up greatly preferring the SQ to my Sonys. And that was simply because it wasn't anything like I was used to.

Probably the biggest criticism of Rythmik subs I've seen is due to misunderstanding the amp power rating. Some think more watts means louder, more powerful, and deeper sound but taken in isolation it means nothing. Yet bigger numbers sell and an uninformed consumer might levitate to the more powerful amps.
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Old 04-15-2016, 09:19 AM
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Just wanted to pop in and say that after almost a year of moving from dual VTF15’s to dual FV15HP’s, I am totally happy. So much I moved on from messing with the audio to a UHD upgrade.


These things perform day in and day out and I would not trade em. Force Awakens had LFE rattling all kinds of stuff in my room...
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Old 04-15-2016, 10:32 AM
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I have a one year old and can't let them rip as much as I used to, but I will say being able to control the dampening has really come in handy. Instead of having to turn down the subs or completely off I can simply switch the dampening from low to high and it really tightens things up. I still know they are there, but there is a lot less rumble.
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Old 04-15-2016, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrGrey View Post
Anyone ever had a bass note in a film hit you so hard in the chest it had you thinking about death? lmao😂 well since i had my sub pointing at the wall i gained a nice response, no localization and perfect phase letting me feel the bass hits in the movies i watch.

i removed my Minidsp2x4 and gained back the db i lost, plus having both Line in ports connected to by AVR that extra 6db combined with it already turned up 5 clicks from 12 o'clock on the gain because of the DSP db loss had me sitting in a corner thinking if i can get brain damage from bass after randomly clicking on a scene in Loudformers 3 and getting kocked over haha.

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I hear this description all the time of subwoofer audio "hitting hard in the chest", but I can't say I get that with my two F25's. I feel my couch vibrate from the sound and the walls start to feel it when it's really loud, but I don't really feel it in my body. Is it because I don't run my subs hot? Below is my sub REW output, which you can see easily goes down to 10Hz. I also listen to a lot of music on my system, so in that regard I don't want a ton of bass dominating the sound. However, for movie watching am I not feeling it in my chest because I run the subs pretty flat or what? I listen to movies where the dialogue sounds clear without being uncomfortable. I also have a miniDSP2x4. The measurements below are after all adjustments and using the miniDSP.

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Old 04-15-2016, 10:39 AM
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I more feel mine kick the chair and the low LFE stuttles rattles. You can tell when it pressurizes too. At reference volume I only get 110db, not 115db, in the lower part of the range but my room is huge. Still, 110db in a huge room is nothing to hold your head in shame over

I also think you get used to the hard bass, where as others may be like "damn" the first time. I love the chair kick/cushion rumble during a tense scene, it can get you.

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Old 04-15-2016, 11:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluecow003 View Post
I hear this description all the time of subwoofer audio "hitting hard in the chest", but I can't say I get that with my two F25's. I feel my couch vibrate from the sound and the walls start to feel it when it's really loud, but I don't really feel it in my body. Is it because I don't run my subs hot? Below is my sub REW output, which you can see easily goes down to 10Hz. I also listen to a lot of music on my system, so in that regard I don't want a ton of bass dominating the sound. However, for movie watching am I not feeling it in my chest because I run the subs pretty flat or what? I listen to movies where the dialogue sounds clear without being uncomfortable. I also have a miniDSP2x4. The measurements below are after all adjustments and using the miniDSP.

That's so strange with two F25's you should be feeling allot and i don't even run mines hot since i use two of the Line in inputs on my FV15HP.. Crazy thing is that when i point the sub at the wall that's when i started to get powerful, smooth, no directional bass coming from all directions and the chest and body shaking feeling in everything i listen to and watch. mind you i had my sub from Feb 2015 and i just started feeling and hearing what this sub can do with a simple thing as pointing it inches from the wall... Silly $hît man. i am 6ft away from my sub. I think it's an integration issue because i don't think with my one sub i should be having a more exciting and perfect bass experience than you. From what i know it's getting Phase correct that gets thing's working together well.

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Old 04-15-2016, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Bluecow003 View Post
I hear this description all the time of subwoofer audio "hitting hard in the chest", but I can't say I get that with my two F25's.
I'm not an expert, but I've read that the "feel it in your chest" sounds are in the 40-50 Hz range; that's around the frequency range of a kick drum. Maybe the problem is that you have a 5 dB drop in that range?
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Old 04-15-2016, 12:17 PM
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Can you move the sounds and/or MLP a bit to try to reduce the dips at 45 and 60 Hz? That may help...

Unless you listen quite loudly, most folk find a slightly rising LF response is helpful. I usually run my system flat but in the past few years have decided I like a bit of HF roll-off (can't hear 20 kHz anymore) and deep bass boost, around 5 ~ 6 dB like everybody else (shocking). Follows the way we hear better and provides a better listener experience for many (most?)
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Old 04-15-2016, 12:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluecow003 View Post
I hear this description all the time of subwoofer audio "hitting hard in the chest", but I can't say I get that with my two F25's. I feel my couch vibrate from the sound and the walls start to feel it when it's really loud, but I don't really feel it in my body. Is it because I don't run my subs hot? Below is my sub REW output, which you can see easily goes down to 10Hz. I also listen to a lot of music on my system, so in that regard I don't want a ton of bass dominating the sound. However, for movie watching am I not feeling it in my chest because I run the subs pretty flat or what? I listen to movies where the dialogue sounds clear without being uncomfortable. I also have a miniDSP2x4. The measurements below are after all adjustments and using the miniDSP.


Here is my two cents. I would work on placement and integration to improve response dips/nulls above 40 Hz. 5-15 dB drops in output will definitely reduce sound quality/impact.

Second, a "subs only" FR is almost meaningless as it does not address how well your subs integrate with your mains. Since your FR just between the two subs could use some work, it would surprise me if things looked good around and above crossover. This will have a huge impact on mid bass and the feeling in the chest.


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Old 04-15-2016, 01:41 PM
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I'm with the others; the 40-60Hz range is where you get most of that "kick in the chest" sensation. You have a couple of pretty significant dips right in that area, and were they removed I'm betting you would end up with exactly what you're looking to achieve.
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f12g subwoofer , lv12r , Rythmik , Rythmik Audio , Rythmik Audio F12 Direct Servo Subwoofer , Rythmik Audio F15 Subwoofer , servo sub
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