Official Rythmik Audio Subwoofer thread - Page 796 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #23851 of 26270 Old 06-10-2016, 05:49 AM
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Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
Is one port bigger than the other?
Both ports are 3 1/2" in diameter. It was probably just the angle that the picture was taken.

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post #23852 of 26270 Old 06-10-2016, 07:51 AM
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Makes sense
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post #23853 of 26270 Old 06-12-2016, 08:49 AM
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How does the black matte vinyl finish of the L12 look and is it easy to damage? I have had painted "satin black" subs for several years that have held up well to young kids using them as "tables" so I was wondering how the vinyl veneer would compare. Thanks.
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post #23854 of 26270 Old 06-12-2016, 03:27 PM
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Are spike feet available for the f12?
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post #23855 of 26270 Old 06-12-2016, 08:20 PM
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Originally Posted by crbaldwin View Post
How does the black matte vinyl finish of the L12 look and is it easy to damage? I have had painted "satin black" subs for several years that have held up well to young kids using them as "tables" so I was wondering how the vinyl veneer would compare. Thanks.
I have the black matte on both my LV12R Rythmik sub's and I love it. Looks good and feels durable to the touch. I was in the automotive industry for years so I'm very in tune with whether a finish will be durable or not when I get to feel it from dealing with custom paints and body wraps for years This feels like it is to me. JMHO.

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post #23856 of 26270 Old 06-12-2016, 08:45 PM
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Are spike feet available for the f12?
I can't find that they are but maybe someone else might chime in if they know something different.

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post #23857 of 26270 Old 06-12-2016, 09:30 PM
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I have the black matte on both my LV12R Rythmik sub's and I love it. Looks good and feels durable to the touch. I was in the automotive industry for years so I'm very in tune with whether a finish will be durable or not when I get to feel it from dealing with custom paints and body wraps for years This feels like it is to me. JMHO.

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When I'm ready to buy it will certainly be the black matte. I really like the look. Although I'd love the black gloss to match my ML 40's and 8, but I won't be getting the FV15.

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post #23858 of 26270 Old 06-12-2016, 09:37 PM
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When I'm ready to buy it will certainly be the black matte. I really like the look. Although I'd love the black gloss to match my ML 40's and 8, but I won't be getting the FV15.
I bet. My space and my pocketbook couldn't fit the FV15 but all of Brian's sub's are pretty great so the room I had for one got filled in fine. Nice clear bass.

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post #23859 of 26270 Old 06-13-2016, 03:28 PM
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Are spike feet available for the f12?

I used spikes for years, but there is now a better way to go---isolation. Spikes couple the sub enclosure to the floor, which has it's benefits. Coupling is the opposite of isolation---vibrations from the floor can travel up the spikes as well as down them. When you isolate the sub's enclosure from the floor, you prevent vibrations from coming up into it from below.

The way to isolate is to place a mechanical "filter" between two objects, in this case the sub enclosure and the floor. It has long been considered common wisdom that a speaker enclosure should be held firmly in place (such as with spikes), to prevent it from moving in reaction to it's cone's travel---as the cone pumps forward and backward, the enclosure moves in the opposite direction, resulting in a loss of information, and "smearing".

But audio designer Max Townshend in England has some fascinating videos posted on You Tube showing measurements of speaker cabinets with and without his isolation feet, which he has named the Seismic Pod. It is a spring enclosed in a rubber sleeve, with a small hole in the cap that seals each end of the spring/sleeve assembly. They work great, both theoretically and in practice. They are, unfortunately, rather expensive (if you have to ask how much.....;-).

A much cheaper way to get a good portion of the Pods benefits is to use a set of roller bearings, available from a number of companies, the most well known being Symposium Acoustics. SA named theirs Roller Blocks, and it works just as the foundations in Los Angeles high-rises do (to deal with seismic activity---earthquakes!): two shallow cups are separated by a ball bearing, which allows the top and bottom cups to move independently of each other. When vibrations enter the bottom cup, rather than traveling up through the ball bearing into the top cup and then into the sub enclosure, the ball simply rolls ever so slightly, the ball disposing of the energy (vibration) by trying to "climb" up the wall of the cup. And it actually works!

The Roller Block Jr, is priced at $190 for a set of three, and is designed to be used with both the top and bottom cup in place. But some users prefer using just the bottom cup, the bottom of the sub enclosure sitting on the ball bearing itself, rather than on a top cup. Used thusly, the resonant frequency of the bearing is lowered, down to around 3Hz it is claimed. A single set of three Roller Blocks is therefore enough for a pair of subs, only three extra ball bearings needing to be purchased separately. $190 (plus the cost of the three extra balls) for excellent isolation of a pair of subs---a great deal in my book!
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post #23860 of 26270 Old 06-13-2016, 06:31 PM
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I used spikes for years, but there is now a better way to go---isolation. Spikes couple the sub enclosure to the floor, which has it's benefits. Coupling is the opposite of isolation---vibrations from the floor can travel up the spikes as well as down them. When you isolate the sub's enclosure from the floor, you prevent vibrations from coming up into it from below.

The way to isolate is to place a mechanical "filter" between two objects, in this case the sub enclosure and the floor. It has long been considered common wisdom that a speaker enclosure should be held firmly in place (such as with spikes), to prevent it from moving in reaction to it's cone's travel---as the cone pumps forward and backward, the enclosure moves in the opposite direction, resulting in a loss of information, and "smearing".

But audio designer Max Townshend in England has some fascinating videos posted on You Tube showing measurements of speaker cabinets with and without his isolation feet, which he has named the Seismic Pod. It is a spring enclosed in a rubber sleeve, with a small hole in the cap that seals each end of the spring/sleeve assembly. They work great, both theoretically and in practice. They are, unfortunately, rather expensive (if you have to ask how much.....;-).

A much cheaper way to get a good portion of the Pods benefits is to use a set of roller bearings, available from a number of companies, the most well known being Symposium Acoustics. SA named theirs Roller Blocks, and it works just as the foundations in Los Angeles high-rises do (to deal with seismic activity---earthquakes!): two shallow cups are separated by a ball bearing, which allows the top and bottom cups to move independently of each other. When vibrations enter the bottom cup, rather than traveling up through the ball bearing into the top cup and then into the sub enclosure, the ball simply rolls ever so slightly, the ball disposing of the energy (vibration) by trying to "climb" up the wall of the cup. And it actually works!

The Roller Block Jr, is priced at $190 for a set of three, and is designed to be used with both the top and bottom cup in place. But some users prefer using just the bottom cup, the bottom of the sub enclosure sitting on the ball bearing itself, rather than on a top cup. Used thusly, the resonant frequency of the bearing is lowered, down to around 3Hz it is claimed. A single set of three Roller Blocks is therefore enough for a pair of subs, only three extra ball bearings needing to be purchased separately. $190 (plus the cost of the three extra balls) for excellent isolation of a pair of subs---a great deal in my book!


Sounds intriguing. Where can Roller Blocks be purchase?


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post #23861 of 26270 Old 06-13-2016, 06:34 PM
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wonder if the servo technology helps in this regard

Power: Marantz sr7008, NAD C 275Bee x 2, Video: Oppo 103, Samsung 75un6300
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post #23862 of 26270 Old 06-13-2016, 07:53 PM
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Or you could just use rubber feet.

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post #23863 of 26270 Old 06-13-2016, 08:03 PM
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Sounds intriguing. Where can Roller Blocks be purchase?


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Peter (Symposium Acoustics owner) will sell them to you directly, at a 10% discount, or you can buy them from any of his dealers, which includes some of the well known online Hi-Fi accessory retailers. But first, go to the SA website and read more about the theory and design of the Roller Blocks, and to the site of one of the originators of the idea, audiophile recording engineer Barry Diament, who talks about the idea in great detail. There is another maker of a roller bearing product, Ingress Engineering in Canada. He makes a couple of different models, one for only $75 for a set of three.
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post #23864 of 26270 Old 06-13-2016, 08:07 PM
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Or you could just use rubber feet.
Or you could use nothing under your subs. Heck, if you don't care about better sound, you could even not use subs at all. Why not just buy some Bose, and settle for real mediocrity? ;-)


And while you're at it, why waste all that money on high-performance steel-belted radial ply tires? Just get some cheap retreads.
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post #23865 of 26270 Old 06-13-2016, 08:08 PM
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any legit studies for subwoofer performance with feet vs no feet vs these rollers?

Power: Marantz sr7008, NAD C 275Bee x 2, Video: Oppo 103, Samsung 75un6300
Speakers: Focal aria 948, Focal cc800v, Klipsch synergy KSF 10.5 Subs: Velodyne HGS 12, VA 1512, Rythmik FV15HP
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post #23866 of 26270 Old 06-13-2016, 08:17 PM
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[QUOTE=torii;44717057]any legit studies for subwoofer performance with feet vs no feet vs these rollers?[/QUOTE


Yes. Go to the site of Barry Diament Audio. He doesn't make or sell roller bearings, but he uses ones he made himself, and tells you why. Or don't---everyone is free to be satisfied as things are, no obligation to try for even better sound.
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post #23867 of 26270 Old 06-13-2016, 08:19 PM
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Or you could use nothing under your subs. Heck, if you don't care about better sound, you could even not use subs at all. Why not just buy some Bose, and settle for real mediocrity? ;-)
That's not the case at all. A few dollars worth of rubber feet is equally as effective as Rube Goldberg roller blocks regardless if you go buy the bearings on your own and turn your own wooden bowls or buy them premade with branding from the specialty audio manufacturer or the dealers. It's a solution to a problem that doesn't exist in this case.

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post #23868 of 26270 Old 06-13-2016, 09:05 PM
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That's not the case at all. A few dollars worth of rubber feet is equally as effective as Rube Goldberg roller blocks regardless if you go buy the bearings on your own and turn your own wooden bowls or buy them premade with branding from the specialty audio manufacturer or the dealers. It's a solution to a problem that doesn't exist in this case.

For the intellectually curious, Max Townshend has posted some very interesting videos on You Tube, displaying the effects of seismic level vibrations on speaker cabinets, and the solution he offers in the form of his unfortunately rather expensive Seismic Pods. Roller bearings are a pretty cheap way of dealing with those low-level vibrations, if you "believe" in such nonsense.


Paul Simon: "One man's ceiling.....is another man's floor".
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post #23869 of 26270 Old 06-13-2016, 09:13 PM
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I'm just curious, would a certain sub pair better with certain speaker brands? Or it doesn't really make a difference? I have Martin Logan Motion 40's.

Sony XBR70 850
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post #23870 of 26270 Old 06-13-2016, 09:17 PM
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I'm just curious, would a certain sub pair better with certain speaker brands? Or it doesn't really make a difference? I have Martin Logan Motion 40's.

The OB/Dipole Sub is just what planars need. I use them with my Quad ESL's and Eminent Technology LFT-8b Magnetic Planars. On roller bearings ;-) .
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post #23871 of 26270 Old 06-13-2016, 09:31 PM
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The OB/Dipole Sub is just what planars need. I use them with my Quad ESL's and Eminent Technology LFT-8b Magnetic Planars. On roller bearings ;-) .
Sounds like you have an awesome system. You can never go wrong with ML speakers.

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post #23872 of 26270 Old 06-13-2016, 09:35 PM
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I'm just curious, would a certain sub pair better with certain speaker brands? Or it doesn't really make a difference? I have Martin Logan Motion 40's.
I would think a sub would at least have to consider the space it was required to field.

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post #23873 of 26270 Old 06-14-2016, 05:02 AM
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Originally Posted by BDP24 View Post
For the intellectually curious, Max Townshend has posted some very interesting videos on You Tube, displaying the effects of seismic level vibrations on speaker cabinets, and the solution he offers in the form of his unfortunately rather expensive Seismic Pods. Roller bearings are a pretty cheap way of dealing with those low-level vibrations, if you "believe" in such nonsense.


Paul Simon: "One man's ceiling.....is another man's floor".
Max's proposes a seismic vibration hypothesis for why we have a change in audio perception during the evening vs. daytime. He demonstrates mechanical resonances with electric motors on sticks and a pink elephant toy on an elastic string. He doesn't present evidence that directly links seismic phenomena to audio system performance nor to its effects on audio perception in humans. What he does do is present a logical misdirect in explaining the phenomenon as a "well it wasn't residual mains electrical noise so it must be seismic" argument.

To his credit, I think his misdirection may not be intentional as he really believes seismic phenomena is the cause. The problem is that he did not directly measure any aspect of audio performance while varying the control for seismic range vibrations.

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post #23874 of 26270 Old 06-14-2016, 07:09 AM
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The OB/Dipole Sub is just what planars need. I use them with my Quad ESL's and Eminent Technology LFT-8b Magnetic Planars. On roller bearings ;-) .
Note the ML Motion series speakers are not ESL panels; they are conventional designs with Heil tweeters. Any Rythmik will do fine.

Whilst OB seems the perfect match for planar speakers, regular subs do OK as well if you haven't the space or inclination to build OB subs.
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I'm just curious, would a certain sub pair better with certain speaker brands? Or it doesn't really make a difference? I have Martin Logan Motion 40's.
Let's turn it around: All speaker brands pair better with Rythmik subs.

Realistically there are a lot of good subs out there these days but Rythmik's servo design does offer a lot in terms of features and performance.

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post #23876 of 26270 Old 06-14-2016, 08:59 AM
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Let's turn it around: All speaker brands pair better with Rythmik subs.

Realistically there are a lot of good subs out there these days but Rythmik's servo design does offer a lot in terms of features and performance.
I really didn't think it mattered which sub. When it's time to buy I will certain choose Rythmik, now to decide which one(s)- LV12R, FVX12, or FVX 15.
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Sony XBR70 850
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post #23877 of 26270 Old 06-14-2016, 10:20 AM
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I'd just place the sub with no feet on carpet and be done with it. Spend the extra money on better/more subs and/or better speakers, not accessories that may or may not have much audible effect on sound quality.

Just my 2 cents...
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Is there any definitive release date and price for the 18'' subwoofer from Rythmik? Will there be a ported and a sealed version of this subwoofer? If anyone has some more information about these subs please share it, we might be organising a powerbuy from the Netherlands.
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post #23879 of 26270 Old 06-14-2016, 12:49 PM
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With the whole LFE vs Line in petty much over with and we all know what sounds best for the individual supported by comparison graphs, what i am now curious about is what happens to the content over 80hz in the LFE channel when we crossed at 80hz via the Line in on the sub. below i graphed a film but only the LFE channel and you can see it goes beyond 80hz, so knowing that the crosserover in the avr does not affect the LFE channel do we lose everything above 80hz? since from what i know its not redirected to the speakers.



Receiver - Sony STR-DH550
Fronts - Klipsch Reference Premiere RP-280F
Center
- Klipsch Reference Premiere RP-450C
Surrounds - Don't ask lol
Sub - Rythmik FV15HP

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post #23880 of 26270 Old 06-14-2016, 01:02 PM
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^^ yes, one will loose everything above 80hz if the sub crossover knob is set at 80hz.
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f12g subwoofer , lv12r , Rythmik , Rythmik Audio , Rythmik Audio F12 Direct Servo Subwoofer , Rythmik Audio F15 Subwoofer , servo sub

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