Official Rythmik Audio Subwoofer thread - Page 811 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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Old 07-11-2016, 03:52 PM
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Old 07-11-2016, 03:57 PM
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The reason I am set on the F series is that it is what was recommended by Dave. Also, a couple factors that I like better in the appearance stand point of the sub itself. Eventually I will be moving this into a larger space once I get my own house and will probably end up either selling the two f12's and get larger ported 15's or add more F12's for a quad set up.
With words such as "larger space" and "selling the two F12's" in your future, my vote goes to the E15HP instead. It can handle the former - especially if there's a pair of them - and won't require you to do the latter, thereby preserving your investment. You can have your cake and eat it too.

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Old 07-11-2016, 04:01 PM
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So I'm reading all these posts about room size vs. Size and quantity of subs so I calculate the size of my home theater room. It's 5000 cubic ft with open stairs to my upstairs. I have a single d15se so do I like need 8 more 😁
Nah, 7 should suffice...
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Old 07-11-2016, 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Theriddler07sms View Post
The reason I am set on the F series is that it is what was recommended by Dave. Also, a couple factors that I like better in the appearance stand point of the sub itself. Eventually I will be moving this into a larger space once I get my own house and will probably end up either selling the two f12's and get larger ported 15's or add more F12's for a quad set up.
With words such as "larger space" and "selling the two F12's" in your future, my vote goes to the E15HP instead. It can handle the former - especially if there's a pair of them - and won't require you to do the latter, thereby preserving your investment. You can have your cake and eat it too.
I was thinking a similar thing, except with the FVX15(s). Buying and selling subs involves losing a significant amount of money. With the bigger sub(s), that becomes unnecessary.
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Old 07-11-2016, 07:33 PM
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my little pet peeve is how low and loud do you want/expect. most I bet dont even know how loud(spl in db's) it is. my 2 x 12 in subs could hit 110 spl in 50x30x15 room...replacing one 12 sub with a rythmik 15hp I hit 118 db spl on star wars movie at -5 on mv. its still not loud enough for me, but any louder would risk damaging delicate household items on display by vibrating them to the floor. 118 db bounced a few seashells to the ground from 12 feet up...so how loud is it now and how loud do you want to go?
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Old 07-11-2016, 07:42 PM
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This is what I use here in California https://smile.amazon.com/Quakehold-8...rds=Quake+Hold
Yes sir, I use that stuff in my Palm Springs home

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Old 07-11-2016, 10:28 PM
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Well, decided on the F12s. If I have to upgrade down the road and take a hit on these subs than so be it. I will enjoy the hell out of them until than. Money well spent, is money spent on a smile.

I ordered one today along with Sierra center and will order another one in 45 days to maintain the discount.

Thank you all for the advice and help.
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Old 07-11-2016, 10:58 PM
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As an aside, today I added a couple additions which may or may not bring my HT to new heights. too bad I can't figure out how to get the speaker wire to them through that external wall with insulation in it. For the moment they're just hanging there until I can figure it out.
What I have done in the past when running cable in an external insulated wall is: A) use a stud sensor to determine if there are any fire breaks between the studs, B) Once reasonably sure the answer to A was no, cut a small hole in the drywall where the speakers are and another where you want the cables to go in the wall, C) Used a fiberglass cable fish rod fed from the top dry wall opening down to the lower opening, D) taped the speaker cable to the fish rod, which keeps it more secure and is less likely to pull the insulation, E) slowly pull the rod back out. Voila.

I have had to do this a couple times for surrounds, just be sure to use inwall rated speaker cable. I normally use a wall plate to make it look a little cleaner as well.

It is pretty cheap and easy.

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Old 07-12-2016, 01:28 AM
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Age hasn't changed me; I want it all, both quality and quantity! And yes, I'm over 50...

You youngins'. I'm over sixty (over sixty-five even), and I still need to crank AC/DC.
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Old 07-12-2016, 03:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Theriddler07sms View Post
Well, decided on the F12s. If I have to upgrade down the road and take a hit on these subs than so be it. I will enjoy the hell out of them until than. Money well spent, is money spent on a smile.

I ordered one today along with Sierra center and will order another one in 45 days to maintain the discount.

Thank you all for the advice and help.
Congrats. Those Sierra are fine speakers too.
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Old 07-12-2016, 03:48 AM
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Official Rythmik Audio Subwoofer thread

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Originally Posted by Blacklightning View Post
This means if you play a 60hz test tone at 80db, your sub will be able to play a 10hz tone at 77db. (in a perfect flat world) But you will find if you are just running one sub or you are not eq'ing your sub the peaks and nulls in your room may cause frequency swings as high/low as 30db.



Yes and no. REW will give you a nice graph to look at. You can also just use an SPL meter, play test tones and just write down the numbers.



let's say you have a sealed 12" sub. Play the sub outside in an open field and you will have less bass. Now place it in a room and you will find that the smaller the room the louder the low frequencies below 25hz will sound. In a perfect world you would measure your sub outside and then in a room and you will see your room gain.


Ok thanks! I'll have to measure my sub to see what I get.


So since I have my sub in a large open first floor layout, I'm likely to have much less room gain than if it were in a smaller sealed room. Also I have a ported sub not sealed. Does that make a difference in terms of room gain? I would assume ported subs typically have more room gain.

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Old 07-12-2016, 05:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Theriddler07sms View Post
Well, decided on the F12s. If I have to upgrade down the road and take a hit on these subs than so be it. I will enjoy the hell out of them until than. Money well spent, is money spent on a smile.

I ordered one today along with Sierra center and will order another one in 45 days to maintain the discount.

Thank you all for the advice and help.
Enjoy your new sub and CC.
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Old 07-12-2016, 06:11 AM
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You youngins'. I'm over sixty (over sixty-five even), and I still need to crank AC/DC.
I love the old stuff featuring the second lineup (the guys from the late 70's on). Now there's no Malcolm, Phil Rudd, Cliff Williams or Brian Johnson - it's just Angus. Maybe they should call themselves A?/?? instead...
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Old 07-12-2016, 06:21 AM
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Well, decided on the F12s. If I have to upgrade down the road and take a hit on these subs than so be it. I will enjoy the hell out of them until than. Money well spent, is money spent on a smile.

I ordered one today along with Sierra center and will order another one in 45 days to maintain the discount.

Thank you all for the advice and help.
Great speakers, Congratulations!! That's my next upgrade in speakers: Sierra Towers with RAAL + Horizon Center with RAAL and Sierra 2s for surround



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Media Room: Polk LSiM705s, LSiM706C, LSiM703s | Rythmik F12SE (x2) | Marantz SR7008 | Parasound Halo P5 | Emotiva XPA-3 & XPA-200 | Oppo 105D | Sony HW40ES |
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Old 07-12-2016, 08:08 AM
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Ok thanks! I'll have to measure my sub to see what I get.

So since I have my sub in a large open first floor layout, I'm likely to have much less room gain than if it were in a smaller sealed room. Also I have a ported sub not sealed. Does that make a difference in terms of room gain? I would assume ported subs typically have more room gain.
The general rule is that Ported subs have lessroom gain then sealed subs but both subs will get the same room gain at 32hz.but the story changes below the port tuned frequency so at 15hz and lower, roomgain is not really a factor for most ported subs.





If you are chasing 10hz performance sealed is theway to go.





But all this means nothing until you get REW and amic. People are used to seeing graphs of speakers and they think they arehearing a nice straight line. You can have a sub rated at 16-200hz but in aroom it could change to 10-200hz or 45-200hz with a huge whole at 80hzand 120z.





Here is a graph of the bass of my full rangespeakers bass response. some would say I'm at 25-200hz +-5db in-room, myspeakers are rated at 42Hz-20KHz. but you can see that my response dips below-5db at 50hz, 80hz, and 170hz.
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Old 07-12-2016, 08:13 AM
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The general rule is that Ported subs have lessroom gain then sealed subs but both subs will get the same room gain at 32hz.but the story changes below the port tuned frequency so at 15hz and lower, roomgain is not really a factor for most ported subs.





If you are chasing 10hz performance sealed is theway to go.





But all this means nothing until you get REW and amic. People are used to seeing graphs of speakers and they think they arehearing a nice straight line. You can have a sub rated at 16-200hz but in aroom it could change to 10-200hz or 45-200hz with a huge whole at 80hzand 120z.





Here is a graph of the bass of my full rangespeakers bass response. some would say I'm at 25-200hz +-5db in-room, myspeakers are rated at 42Hz-20KHz. but you can see that my response dips below-5db at 50hz, 80hz, and 170hz.
I've done a lot of reading about how to use REW and I plan to get some equipment and take measurements sometimes before the summer is over because I really want to know what my sub looks like in my room - but I know it sounds great to my ears, so its more for curiosity sake. I still have this question, and this is where I think I still don't understand a piece of this. After you take your measurements, what do you do? Taking yours as an example - how do you pull the 50hz and 80hz drop up to remain flatter? What would you do? How would you know what to do? Would you want to or does a drop at those frequencies make sense in your environment? How would you know?
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Old 07-12-2016, 08:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blacklightning View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by citsur86 View Post
Ok thanks! I'll have to measure my sub to see what I get.

So since I have my sub in a large open first floor layout, I'm likely to have much less room gain than if it were in a smaller sealed room. Also I have a ported sub not sealed. Does that make a difference in terms of room gain? I would assume ported subs typically have more room gain.
The general rule is that Ported subs have lessroom gain then sealed subs but both subs will get the same room gain at 32hz.but the story changes below the port tuned frequency so at 15hz and lower, roomgain is not really a factor for most ported subs.





If you are chasing 10hz performance sealed is theway to go.





But all this means nothing until you get REW and amic. People are used to seeing graphs of speakers and they think they arehearing a nice straight line. You can have a sub rated at 16-200hz but in aroom it could change to 10-200hz or 45-200hz with a huge whole at 80hzand 120z.





Here is a graph of the bass of my full rangespeakers bass response. some would say I'm at 25-200hz +-5db in-room, myspeakers are rated at 42Hz-20KHz. but you can see that my response dips below-5db at 50hz, 80hz, and 170hz.
So, for the LV12R with a 19Hz port tune, room gain can occur from 32Hz to 19Hz, but not under 19Hz?
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Old 07-12-2016, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by citsur86 View Post
I've done a lot of reading about how to use REW and I plan to get some equipment and take measurements sometimes before the summer is over because I really want to know what my sub looks like in my room - but I know it sounds great to my ears, so its more for curiosity sake. I still have this question, and this is where I think I still don't understand a piece of this. After you take your measurements, what do you do? Taking yours as an example - how do you pull the 50hz and 80hz drop up to remain flatter? What would you do? How would you know what to do? Would you want to or does a drop at those frequencies make sense in your environment? How would you know?
You have a lot of questions. lol


There are so many things you can do. I do not have access to most of my REW files right now. A couple of things is positions.
You can set your mic up and measure your response over and over again with different positions. And I don't mean the 3 different positions in your room I'm talking about 6 inchs from the wall vs 8 inchs from the wall. Even sub facing the east wall versions west wall. Also phase controls on subs are so much easier to do with REW. I do not have any EQ system so I need to move my sit and or speakers to they and get a flat response. Here are two things that I did with REW. First was a bass trap test with 1,3,and 5 bass traps. Second was my speaker 4,5, and 6 feet from the front wall.


I hope others will answer this question also.
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Old 07-12-2016, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by citsur86 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blacklightning View Post
The general rule is that Ported subs have lessroom gain then sealed subs but both subs will get the same room gain at 32hz.but the story changes below the port tuned frequency so at 15hz and lower, roomgain is not really a factor for most ported subs.





If you are chasing 10hz performance sealed is theway to go.





But all this means nothing until you get REW and amic. People are used to seeing graphs of speakers and they think they arehearing a nice straight line. You can have a sub rated at 16-200hz but in aroom it could change to 10-200hz or 45-200hz with a huge whole at 80hzand 120z.





Here is a graph of the bass of my full rangespeakers bass response. some would say I'm at 25-200hz +-5db in-room, myspeakers are rated at 42Hz-20KHz. but you can see that my response dips below-5db at 50hz, 80hz, and 170hz.
I've done a lot of reading about how to use REW and I plan to get some equipment and take measurements sometimes before the summer is over because I really want to know what my sub looks like in my room - but I know it sounds great to my ears, so its more for curiosity sake. I still have this question, and this is where I think I still don't understand a piece of this. After you take your measurements, what do you do? Taking yours as an example - how do you pull the 50hz and 80hz drop up to remain flatter? What would you do? How would you know what to do? Would you want to or does a drop at those frequencies make sense in your environment? How would you know?
I have a big wide dip between 2 huge peaks at 50Hz and 90Hz. I just cut everything down to the lowest point in the dip and end up with a perfectly flat response from 19Hz to 100Hz. Of course, this may not be the right approach for everyone, but I get absolutely perfect bass this way in terms of SQ and balance.

I tried boosting the dip a bit and cutting the rest down and basically got the same end result by measurements, but it sounded kinda off by ear. That was with a max boost around 60Hz of 6dB. Anything beyond that sounded downright bad, especially with music.
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Old 07-12-2016, 08:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by citsur86 View Post
I've done a lot of reading about how to use REW and I plan to get some equipment and take measurements sometimes before the summer is over because I really want to know what my sub looks like in my room - but I know it sounds great to my ears, so its more for curiosity sake. I still have this question, and this is where I think I still don't understand a piece of this. After you take your measurements, what do you do? Taking yours as an example - how do you pull the 50hz and 80hz drop up to remain flatter? What would you do? How would you know what to do? Would you want to or does a drop at those frequencies make sense in your environment? How would you know?
You have a lot of questions. lol


There are so many things you can do. I do not have access to most of my REW files right now. A couple of things is positions.
You can set your mic up and measure your response over and over again with different positions. And I don't mean the 3 different positions in your room I'm talking about 6 inchs from the wall vs 8 inchs from the wall. Even sub facing the east wall versions west wall. Also phase controls on subs are so much easier to do with REW. I do not have any EQ system so I need to move my sit and or speakers to they and get a flat response. Here are two things that I did with REW. First was a bass trap test with 1,3,and 5 bass traps. Second was my speaker 4,5, and 6 feet from the front wall.


I hope others will answer this question also.
Might want to look into sub EQ, without it there is no position in my square room that has acceptable FR or waterfall.
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Old 07-12-2016, 08:40 AM
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You have a lot of questions. lol
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Old 07-12-2016, 09:18 AM
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Might want to look into sub EQ, .
I'm just a simple 2 channel setup, no sub, and no EQ. These are old graphs that I'm just using for examples.
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Old 07-12-2016, 09:20 AM
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you can also manually adjust the distances set in avr for the subs. every x amount of feet equals a wavelength at certain hz or something like that. this method can help tweak/raise room nulls.

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Old 07-12-2016, 09:25 AM
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Re Room Gain, I don't think that the room "cares" whether the bass is coming from a ported sub or a sealed sub, or a bass drum or stringed bass, or whatever. The room "supports" the low frequencies it will, no matter the source. The reason room gain is less pronounced for ported subs is simply because the output of the ported sub drops very quickly below port tune (about twice as quick as a sealed sub would be below that same frequency), so there's less output for the room to support.

Suppose you have a ported sub tuned at 20 Hz, and a sealed sub capable of the same output as the ported sub at 20 Hz. Suppose that your room gives you 6 dB of gain at 22 Hz and 8 dB of gain at 17 Hz. Then play a 22 Hz tone at 90 dB anechoic. The output of both subs will be increased by 6 dB, to 96 dB.

Now play a tone at 17 Hz, with the same signal strength. The ported sub will probably be down 8 dB (playing at 82 dB anechoic) while the sealed sub will probably be down 3 dB (playing at 87 dB anechoic). Both subs still get an 8 dB boost from the room at 17 Hz. The in-room response for the ported sub will be 90 dB (82 anechoic + 8 room gain), while the in-room response for the sealed sub will be 95 dB (87 anechoic + 8 room gain).

Just wanted to clarify that, since there seems to be some confusion. And, as always, this is as I understand it.

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Old 07-12-2016, 09:32 AM
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Re Room Gain, I don't think that the room "cares" whether the bass is coming from a ported sub or a sealed sub.

Just wanted to clarify that, since there seems to be some confusion. And, as always, this is as I understand it.
Correct, I was just keeping it simple and short.


but we should get back on topic... how about the Rythmik F8 and F12g? Best music subs from Rythmik. I wish I could do a blind test with those and the L12 and a few ported Rythmik subs.
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Old 07-12-2016, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by bkeeler10 View Post
Re Room Gain, I don't think that the room "cares" whether the bass is coming from a ported sub or a sealed sub, or a bass drum or stringed bass, or whatever. The room "supports" the low frequencies it will, no matter the source. The reason room gain is less pronounced for ported subs is simply because the output of the ported sub drops very quickly below port tune (about twice as quick as a sealed sub would be below that same frequency), so there's less output for the room to support.

Suppose you have a ported sub tuned at 20 Hz, and a sealed sub capable of the same output as the ported sub at 20 Hz. Suppose that your room gives you 6 dB of gain at 22 Hz and 8 dB of gain at 17 Hz. Then play a 22 Hz tone at 90 dB anechoic. The output of both subs will be increased by 6 dB, to 96 dB.

Now play a tone at 17 Hz, with the same signal strength. The ported sub will probably be down 8 dB (playing at 82 dB anechoic) while the sealed sub will probably be down 3 dB (playing at 87 dB anechoic). Both subs still get an 8 dB boost from the room at 17 Hz. The in-room response for the ported sub will be 90 dB (82 anechoic + 8 room gain), while the in-room response for the sealed sub will be 95 dB (87 anechoic + 8 room gain).

Just wanted to clarify that, since there seems to be some confusion. And, as always, this is as I understand it.
Yeah, that sounds absolutely correct and consistent with what I've read before.
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Old 07-12-2016, 10:19 AM
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Might want to look into sub EQ, .
I'm just a simple 2 channel setup, no sub, and no EQ. These are old graphs that I'm just using for examples.
I see.

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you can also manually adjust the distances set in avr for the subs. every x amount of feet equals a wavelength at certain hz or something like that. this method can help tweak/raise room nulls.
Yes, the sw dist tweak. Though nowadays I find my AVR's auto cal gives an ideal result and tweaking things further doesn't help SQ-wise.
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Old 07-12-2016, 10:28 AM
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my very old velodyne hgs 12 sub came with a remote control. it is very handy when listening to boost or turn down the sub based on mv or sq if the sources change alot. wonder why very few new subs come with this feature? Is it due to avr's having sub trim options available? does rythmik plan on releasing a remote control for their subs anytime in the future?

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Old 07-12-2016, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blacklightning View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by bkeeler10 View Post
Re Room Gain, I don't think that the room "cares" whether the bass is coming from a ported sub or a sealed sub.

Just wanted to clarify that, since there seems to be some confusion. And, as always, this is as I understand it.
Correct, I was just keeping it simple and short.


but we should get back on topic... how about the Rythmik F8 and F12g? Best music subs from Rythmik. I wish I could do a blind test with those and the L12 and a few ported Rythmik subs.
When it comes to musical subs, I would say all Rythmiks fall into that category. You just need to select high or mid damping.

The sealed models might be slightly better for music only setups and the ported models might be slightly better for HT only setups. The biggest difference being a single ported sub of a given driver size will have about twice the max output at 20Hz of a single sealed sub of the same driver size.

As for the F8, I think its best used for high crossovers and/or as a midbass module. However, it could be suitable for general music or even mixed music and ht use if output is not a priority nor is getting serious impact from LFE. The main caveat being that a pair of 8 inch drivers in sealed configuration is going to have its limits vs. the larger subs.

(Jim's review of the F8 gives a good idea of the kind of buyer that would be best suited for the F8.)
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Old 07-12-2016, 11:49 AM
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Watching Allegiant right now and it sure does impress as far as bass goes.

London Has Fallen had great overall sound, but mostly lacking in bass.
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f12g subwoofer , lv12r , Rythmik , Rythmik Audio , Rythmik Audio F12 Direct Servo Subwoofer , Rythmik Audio F15 Subwoofer , servo sub
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