Official Rythmik Audio Subwoofer thread - Page 818 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #24511 of 24537 Old 07-21-2016, 08:53 PM
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Red is my original spot I had the sub.

Green is where the sub is now. A lot different haha.
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post #24512 of 24537 Old 07-21-2016, 09:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by citsur86 View Post
This brings up a question I've had for a while. My mains are capable to play frequencies down to 34Hz. My Surrounds are rated down to 42Hz, and my center is rated down to 48Hz. The front heights I have, however, are rated down to 80Hz. Unfortunately my AVR only lets me set a global crossover that is applied to all speakers set to SMALL (which all of mine are). I've set the crossover to 80Hz (well MCACC actually did). I've read conflicting advise saying that its good to set a higher crossover, even with speakers competent below your settings, so that the lower frequencies are handled by your Sub and therefore your other speakers only play the higher frequencies - which results in a less muddied sound.

Alternatively, like you are saying, setting the crossover lower, allows your mains and other speakers with somewhat low frequency playback capabilities to enhance the bass experience as it will be coming from not just the Sub, but the woofers on the speakers as well.

So my question is this. Should I set my crossover as it is at 80Hz (since the front heights can't go lower, or else I would have asked if i should set it at 50Hz), or should I raise it up to 100Hz or even 150Hz and let the LV12R take care of anything under that so my mains, center, surrounds, and heights can focus on the higher frequencies for a clearer sound? I kind of feel like I'm wasting the point of having tower speakers with woofers in them if I do that though.
This was covered in extensive detail in the ATMOS thread. One of the reasons I wanted ATMOS was to make use of surrounds and rears that have the extension down to 49Hz so I was planning on setting for either 50Hz or a 60Hz crossover. The experts on that thread said... don't bother. Keep everything set to an 80Hz crossover. Seems a shame when you have a sub capable of reaching below 20Hz to also have it "leading the charge" all the way up to 80Hz when I have perfectly acceptable B&W fronts, surrounds, rears and even heights all fully capable of extensions into the 30s & 40s not to pick a lower setting. The ability for me to "play with" those different ranges is part of why I placed an order for the Rythmik CI components earlier today.
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post #24513 of 24537 Old 07-21-2016, 10:20 PM
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Replacing (2) Epik Empires

My living room is open to the rest of the house so I am looking at 12,000 CF. I am looking to replace (2) Epik Empires and I listen to 80% HT & 20% Music. I really like the sound of the Epik Empire's dual opposed 15" subs.

Should I go with dual FV15HP or dual F25?
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post #24514 of 24537 Old Yesterday, 02:25 AM
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Originally Posted by kb4all View Post
My living room is open to the rest of the house so I am looking at 12,000 CF. I am looking to replace (2) Epik Empires and I listen to 80% HT & 20% Music. I really like the sound of the Epik Empire's dual opposed 15" subs.

Should I go with dual FV15HP or dual F25?
Ported subs would work better in your room. Between dual FV15HP or dual F25, 2 FV15HPs for sure. Though many here might strongly advise you to consider dual FV25HP , and if you do decide to get them, we don't really blame you.
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post #24515 of 24537 Old Yesterday, 04:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Theriddler07sms View Post
Red is my original spot I had the sub.

Green is where the sub is now. A lot different haha.
Wow, huge difference in the before and after! Everything I read says there is a lot of bass in the 45-80hz range for movies and music, it looks like that is exactly what was missing before REW (pretty big null between 45-80hz). That explains much of the lack of bass/punch/feel you experienced when first set up the sub. Glad to hear you are enjoying it now! Make me wonder if I should go down that rabbit hole....

Receiver - Yamaha
Sub - Rythmik FVX-15
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post #24516 of 24537 Old Yesterday, 06:19 AM
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Anyone have any issue with headaches or dizziness using Rythmik subs, specifically the LV12R? I just got mine a few days ago. Tried changing the phase/crossover/volume and positioning of the sub, but it didn't really help. I get it even when no music is playing, as long as it's on and plugged into the output. It's strange because I've never had issues with low frequencies or anything like that until I bought this sub.
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post #24517 of 24537 Old Yesterday, 06:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kb4all View Post
My living room is open to the rest of the house so I am looking at 12,000 CF. I am looking to replace (2) Epik Empires and I listen to 80% HT & 20% Music. I really like the sound of the Epik Empire's dual opposed 15" subs.

Should I go with dual FV15HP or dual F25?
You might want to go nearfield or wait for the upcoming 18" models, depending on how much bass you want.
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post #24518 of 24537 Old Yesterday, 06:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Escopy View Post
Anyone have any issue with headaches or dizziness using Rythmik subs, specifically the LV12R? I just got mine a few days ago. Tried changing the phase/crossover/volume and positioning of the sub, but it didn't really help. I get it even when no music is playing, as long as it's on and plugged into the output. It's strange because I've never had issues with low frequencies or anything like that until I bought this sub.
It happens with some people with too much bass. There might be a specific room resonance frequency that's tickling your vestibular system. You might be able to figure it out by looking at room measurements and a sine wave generator, then cutting the problem frequency. REW has that stuff.
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post #24519 of 24537 Old Yesterday, 06:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kb4all View Post
My living room is open to the rest of the house so I am looking at 12,000 CF. I am looking to replace (2) Epik Empires and I listen to 80% HT & 20% Music. I really like the sound of the Epik Empire's dual opposed 15" subs.

Should I go with dual FV15HP or dual F25?
For the room that huge, you should wait till the release of the FV25hp some time in September. You still need two or more of those monsters.
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post #24520 of 24537 Old Yesterday, 07:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Escopy View Post
Anyone have any issue with headaches or dizziness using Rythmik subs, specifically the LV12R? I just got mine a few days ago. Tried changing the phase/crossover/volume and positioning of the sub, but it didn't really help. I get it even when no music is playing, as long as it's on and plugged into the output. It's strange because I've never had issues with low frequencies or anything like that until I bought this sub.
What looks odd to me is when you said the it happens even when there is not music playing, just with the subwoofer on stand by. Could you please check if there is sound coming out of the subwoofer when stand by? Touch the cone surround to see if you feel any vibration or movement.



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Media Room: Polk LSiM705s, LSiM706C, LSiM703s | Rythmik F12SE (x2) | Marantz SR7008 | Parasound Halo P5 | Emotiva XPA-3 & XPA-200 | Oppo 105D | Sony HW40ES |
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post #24521 of 24537 Old Yesterday, 07:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Theriddler07sms View Post
Red is my original spot I had the sub.

Green is where the sub is now. A lot different haha.
That's pretty awesome flat response down to 7Hz. It's amazing what a single F12 can do in a room that size. When you get the second you will be in audio nirvana!!!



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Media Room: Polk LSiM705s, LSiM706C, LSiM703s | Rythmik F12SE (x2) | Marantz SR7008 | Parasound Halo P5 | Emotiva XPA-3 & XPA-200 | Oppo 105D | Sony HW40ES |
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post #24522 of 24537 Old Yesterday, 07:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Theriddler07sms View Post
Red is my original spot I had the sub.

Green is where the sub is now. A lot different haha.
If you want a little bit more punch (kick) for movies, turn the PEQ ON and set the GAIN at +3 (7 o'clock), BANDWIDTH around 3 o'clock and FREQ at 60Hz.



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Media Room: Polk LSiM705s, LSiM706C, LSiM703s | Rythmik F12SE (x2) | Marantz SR7008 | Parasound Halo P5 | Emotiva XPA-3 & XPA-200 | Oppo 105D | Sony HW40ES |
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post #24523 of 24537 Old Yesterday, 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Theriddler07sms View Post
was my understanding that the LFE is used when you have an AVR that can run room correction and set the correct crossover. Line for when you dont want to use your room correction software to set up the sub, you do it manually.
Not necessarily. I use Audyseey and the line in for all my systems. That allows me to 'double down' on the crossover region and increase the slope, which my ears like better (I'm particularly sensitive to chesty sounding voices, and this config often helps in that regard). It's all a matter of preference really - there's no standard way to go about it.
Does the AVR global crossover have to match the crossover knob frequency on the sub via Line In when doing this?

Because right now the crossover knob is at 80Hz/24dB and the AVR global crossover is at 90Hz.

(And the sub's upper extension is flat to about 97Hz or so in LFE channel 4 measurement in REW despite the 80Hz/24dB setting).

(My 5 speakers roll-off just under 90Hz in REW so AVR crossover of 90Hz is appropriate.)
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Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
If you want a little bit more punch (kick) for movies, turn the PEQ ON and set the GAIN at +3 (7 o'clock), BANDWIDTH around 3 o'clock and FREQ at 60Hz.


I was really impressed with the flexibility options on the amp of that sub, even though we didn't adjust them that night. We never did adjust the peq settings, mainly let audyssey do it's job after we found the right placement, then fine tuned delay. I would love to stop back and measure/hear the impact of adjusting the PEQ as you state above. I have used external eq's (behringer 1124p), that was before the mini dsp came out. Since xt32, I haven't really touched other external eq's.
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Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
Does the AVR global crossover have to match the crossover knob frequency on the sub via Line In when doing this?
Not necessarily. You know thats not a hard cutoff.
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post #24526 of 24537 Old Yesterday, 08:28 AM
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Originally Posted by ndskurfer View Post
I was really impressed with the flexibility options on the amp of that sub, even though we didn't adjust them that night. We never did adjust the peq settings, mainly let audyssey do it's job after we found the right placement, then fine tuned delay. I would love to stop back and measure/hear the impact of adjusting the PEQ as you state above. I have used external eq's (behringer 1124p), that was before the mini dsp came out. Since xt32, I haven't really touched other external eq's.
I find those knobs from Rythmik amp very useful also. It allows a user to fine tune further after Avr auto cal without using any external eq. Good job finding that sub placement for your buddy. Is that graph unsmooth? By turning on peq per Enrico's suggestion, the graph should look flatter at 60hz region. I wouldn't use peq to boost if it was a null.
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post #24527 of 24537 Old Yesterday, 08:35 AM
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Originally Posted by tvuong View Post
I find those knobs from Rythmik amp very useful also. It allows a user to fine tune further after Avr auto cal without using any external eq. Good job finding that sub placement for your buddy. Is that graph unsmooth? By turning on peq per Enrico's suggestion, the graph should look flatter at 60hz region. I wouldn't use peq to boost if it was a null.
Well if that small null on 60Hz region is due to room mode then the PEQ would do nothing to fix it. But definitely it's worth a try just to see if it can flat the 60Hz region. The good thing about the controls on the PEQ3 amp is that you can see real time changes with REW.



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Media Room: Polk LSiM705s, LSiM706C, LSiM703s | Rythmik F12SE (x2) | Marantz SR7008 | Parasound Halo P5 | Emotiva XPA-3 & XPA-200 | Oppo 105D | Sony HW40ES |
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Originally Posted by tvuong View Post
I find those knobs from Rythmik amp very useful also. It allows a user to fine tune further after Avr auto cal without using any external eq. Good job finding that sub placement for your buddy. Is that graph unsmooth? By turning on peq per Enrico's suggestion, the graph should look flatter at 60hz region. I wouldn't use peq to boost if it was a null.


I applied 1/6 octave smoothing, since we are showing full range. Correct, no boosting of nulls, although I believe we removed the null with placement. Will need to view the sweeps unsmoothed again tonight.
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I have a room mode null between 70-80hz. For experimenting, I tried +3db peq on both of my subs at that region, the graph sure looked better but I didn't like how my subs sound, so I ended up turning peq off with a simply flip of the knob.
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post #24530 of 24537 Old Yesterday, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by rcohen View Post

It happens with some people with too much bass. There might be a specific room resonance frequency that's tickling your vestibular system. You might be able to figure it out by looking at room measurements and a sine wave generator, then cutting the problem frequency. REW has that stuff.
Thanks, I'll try this.
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post #24531 of 24537 Old Yesterday, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post

What looks odd to me is when you said the it happens even when there is not music playing, just with the subwoofer on stand by. Could you please check if there is sound coming out of the subwoofer when stand by? Touch the cone surround to see if you feel any vibration or movement.
I don't think there's any noise coming from it in standby, but I'll try when I get home, thanks.
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post #24532 of 24537 Old Yesterday, 10:20 AM
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Some people are supposedly sensitive to EMF...personally, I'm not sure if I believe it or not, but that sub has quite a large magnet!
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Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
Does the AVR global crossover have to match the crossover knob frequency on the sub via Line In when doing this?
That's how I approach it, but it's always best to measure because there are some variables between what the knob says and where it actually starts to roll off. I tend to find the sub crossover needs to be set a little higher than the indicated frequency I'm shooting for.

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post #24534 of 24537 Old Yesterday, 09:57 PM
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You might want to separate the two of them before something untoward happens. You know what they say about cross-breeding; the lowest strain of DNA drags down the superior one...

That ugly stepchild will be banished and replaced with a beautiful twin FV15HP.
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@enricoclaudio is there any advantage to running a y-adapter to the LFE left/right versus just one input?

F25
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@enricoclaudio is there any advantage to running a y-adapter to the LFE left/right versus just one input?

F25
None, using 2 inputs will make the sub perform louder at the same gain setting, it does not mean that the sub can go louder, just louder at the same gain setting.
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post #24537 of 24537 Unread Today, 05:21 PM
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Originally Posted by laserjock II View Post
@enricoclaudio is there any advantage to running a y-adapter to the LFE left/right versus just one input?

F25
No advantage and no advisable either. Using both LFE inputs will increase the input gain by +6dB and that can cause the subwoofer to clip and distort.



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Media Room: Polk LSiM705s, LSiM706C, LSiM703s | Rythmik F12SE (x2) | Marantz SR7008 | Parasound Halo P5 | Emotiva XPA-3 & XPA-200 | Oppo 105D | Sony HW40ES |
Desktop: Dynaudio BM5 mkIII | Rythmik L22 | Apogee Duet | 27" iMac|
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