Official Rythmik Audio Subwoofer thread - Page 832 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #24931 of 28258 Old 08-08-2016, 07:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Theriddler07sms View Post
If the ported 18 doesn't fit my needs than in only losing shipping one direction.
You realize that you do pay for shipping right? The shipping charge is already factored in the final price. No one ships for free. Rythmik could list the sub at $1340 with free shipping.
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post #24932 of 28258 Old 08-08-2016, 07:18 PM
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Being in Texas, it is included for me...

Just gotta back up to the loading dock. 😉
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post #24933 of 28258 Old 08-08-2016, 07:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Theriddler07sms View Post
My main goal is to feel the movies, in the chest, buttometer, and walls. Like I mentioned I don't know the difference from 7hz to even 11hz or what difference it will make.
The 1st and 3rd items in your 'main goal' priorities favor ported, while the 2nd is more the province of sealed. What it is that Marvin Aday (aka Meatloaf) said? Two outta three ain't bad...

If you take yourself too seriously, expect me to do the exact opposite

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post #24934 of 28258 Old 08-09-2016, 02:11 AM
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So a psa v1800 isn't as "tight" as a Rythmik ported? I'm not going to get the feeling of my couch shaking with a ported sub?
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post #24935 of 28258 Old 08-09-2016, 03:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Theriddler07sms View Post
So a psa v1800 isn't as "tight" as a Rythmik ported? I'm not going to get the feeling of my couch shaking with a ported sub?
No it will be just as controlled and accurate and will also rock your couch. Healthy 20-30 hz output is what you gives most of that down low tactile sensation. Freq below that add to the effect but are almost never present in isolation in actual material. The V1800 is gonna be a huge increase in tactile feel and should definitely rumble your couch.

Some of the responses are making it unnecessarily confusing for you, but there are also some non PSA fans in this thread (which is perfectly fine given its the Rythmik thread
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post #24936 of 28258 Old 08-09-2016, 06:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Docethic View Post
Healthy 20-30 hz output is what you gives most of that down low tactile sensation. Freq below that add to the effect but are almost never present in isolation in actual material.
interesting

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post #24937 of 28258 Old 08-09-2016, 06:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Theriddler07sms View Post
So a psa v1800 isn't as "tight" as a Rythmik ported?
Probably not. I wouldn't know for sure without measurements and it may be a small difference. But you also probably won't notice given your requirements. It may offer more output (again, I don't know, there are comparisons on the web you could wade through).

Quote:
I'm not going to get the feeling of my couch shaking with a ported sub?
Different thing. If your goal is to shake your couch probably the only thing that matters is maybe 20 Hz to 40 Hz raw output, and maybe up to 80 Hz or above for "boom". A ported sub generally offers more output than sealed and response below 20 Hz is likely not a big deal for you unless you have gobs of it (and the source delivers). It takes a lot of output that low to be felt. Thus Enrico's suggestion of getting a high-output ported model.

You may find yourself appreciating clean bass more as time goes on, and subs have a long life, so investing in a high-end sub now is likely to be more cost-effective in the long term than buying small.

Have you considered adding buttkickers instead? http://www.thebuttkicker.com/

HTH - Don
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post #24938 of 28258 Old 08-09-2016, 07:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnymacIII View Post
I have a LV12R in a sealed 1850 cubic foot room. I believe it has a port tuning frequency of 19 hz. So what does this mean exactly? Will signals below 19 hz be distorted? does it mean that in order to get lower extension below 19 hz the sub will dependent on room gain? Or does it mean the sub rolls off at 19 hz. Just trying to understand what port tuning means and what effect it has on a subwoofer. Thanks.
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Originally Posted by torii View Post
I believe there will be a huge spl loss/rolloff below port tune. the sub will get sloppy and distort running the risk of blowing the sub.
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Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
It means you can expect a flat response down to 19Hz or a bit lower with room gain. Afterwards, it will roll off at 24dB per octave.

It shouldn't distort under tuning frequency unless you are using EQ to boost the natural roll off under 19Hz so that it remains flatter under 19Hz.

(Simply because there won't be much output under 19Hz.)

However, you should know this sub is good for about 101dB at 20Hz not including room gain. That means if you play something like Edge of Tomorrow at a volume where more than 100dB is expected of the sub at 20Hz and under, then you run the risk of damage to the sub.

-15MV puts the LFE channel at 100dB but running the sub hot and bass management can make you hit 100dB sooner, like at -20MV or even -25MV. So, expecting this sub to play anywhere near reference level (0MV) is unrealistic and will result in pushing the sub beyond its comfortable limits.
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Originally Posted by citsur86 View Post
I can confirm this....

I accidentally had my subwoofer set to a few db below reference volume and it didn't damage the sub, but it did blow a fuse inside the power supply. Maybe from the rattling? No idea. Anyways - it made a very loud and bad sound and I would not do it again. Because of this, now-a-days I google bluerays before I watch them to make sure there aren't any of those moments. I also listen at significantly (though still loud) lower volumes than reference.
Is all of this accurate? I thought that the modern amps use limiters which allow you to push subs hard without worry/risk of damage?
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post #24939 of 28258 Old 08-09-2016, 08:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
Is all of this accurate? I thought that the modern amps use limiters which allow you to push subs hard without worry/risk of damage?
In my case, where fuse blew, I think that it was a freak thing. Normally, from what others here have said, you are correct - at least for non DIY subs. If not, I'm pretty certain the LV12R I have would be damaged. It was making a REALLY bad sound when I got caught with it too loud at beginning of Edge of Tomorrow. BTW, in regards to that movie specifically. The rest of it was awesome both in LFE sound and movie quality - with no other extremely Loud, extremely low frequencies.
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post #24940 of 28258 Old 08-09-2016, 08:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
Is all of this accurate? I thought that the modern amps use limiters which allow you to push subs hard without worry/risk of damage?
depends of how far the sub is pushed past safe limits and for how long

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post #24941 of 28258 Old 08-09-2016, 08:59 AM
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Sometimes when I read posts that argue that all well designed subwoofers sound the same, it really makes me LOL. So in this forum when you ask for advice about speakers everybody says AUDITION the more speakers you can and get the one that sounds better for you, but when you ask for subwoofer advice then the advice is get the subwoofer that plays louder and has the better SPL/money ratio. Like if subwoofers weren't speakers. That's just plain nonsense. Of course very well designed subwoofers from different brands sound different and technology like servo improves accuracy and make the sound more tight. If not ask Sterling Sound NY, the biggest mastering studio in the world, who just purchased last week three more Rythmik Audio F15HPs for their 4th mastering room and even got one as spare (Now Sterling Sound owns 9 Rythmik Audio subwoofers). So YES, servo technology improve the sound, period.



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post #24942 of 28258 Old 08-09-2016, 09:16 AM
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Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
Sometimes when I read posts that argue that all well designed subwoofers sound the same, it really makes me LOL. So in this forum when you ask for advice about speakers everybody says AUDITION the more speakers you can and get the one that sounds better for you, but when you ask for subwoofer advice then the advice is get the subwoofer that plays louder and has the better SPL/money ratio. Like if subwoofers weren't speakers. That's just plain nonsense. Of course very well designed subwoofers from different brands sound different and technology like servo improves accuracy and make the sound more tight. If not ask Sterling Sound NY, the biggest mastering studio in the world, who just purchased last week three more Rythmik Audio F15HPs for their 4th mastering room and even got one as spare (Now Sterling Sound owns 9 Rythmik Audio subwoofers). So YES, servo technology improve the sound, period.
I'm only at 5 Rythmik Audio subwoofers, so still trying to catch up to Sterling Sound!
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post #24943 of 28258 Old 08-09-2016, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
depends of how far the sub is pushed past safe limits and for how long
I've never read of any damage done. I am guessing most people hear when sub is being overextended and back off if the volume. If damaged were ever done to a driver, wouldn't it be replaced under 5yr warranty?


In regards to Rythmik vs PSA. The FV15HP outperforms the V1500 and 15V across the board based on PSA's own charts. I expect the new Rythmik 18 to outperform the V1800 as well, but PSA seems to always have a pricing advantage.

However, the V1800 costs less than the FV15HP and seems to have more output above 30Hz while the FV15HP offers more flexibility with the pluggable port and ability for deeper extension.

I would love for someone to directly compare IcePower HCOM technology vs Rythmik Servo (@JimWilson;??). I have a feeling that servo's SQ gap is not what it once was before the ID vendors started using Speakerpower.

Enrico, has Rythmik tested the IcePower amps in-house? Care to comment? 😃

Admittedly, my purchasing consideration was always Rythmik 1, PSA 2. I really wanted the FV15HP (2 of them no less), but size and weight were a problem (I have some physical disabilities) as well as price. Same went for the V1500.

I ended up compromising and going with S1500s because of price (I ordered from their outlet) and weight (my back thanks me). REW tells me they extend down to 6Hz in my room (3000 ft³, sealed & upstairs w/raised wood subfloor) but my UMIK is only calibrated down to 20Hz. I feel that Tactile Transducers make up for anything I sacrificed by not going ported.
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post #24944 of 28258 Old 08-09-2016, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
depends of how far the sub is pushed past safe limits and for how long
I've never read of any damage done. I am guessing most people hear when sub is being overextended and back off if the volume. If damaged were ever done to a driver, wouldn't it be replaced under 5yr warranty?


In regards to Rythmik vs PSA. The FV15HP outperforms the V1500 and 15V across the board based on PSA's own charts. I expect the new Rythmik 18 to outperform the V1800 as well, but PSA seems to always have a pricing advantage.

However, the V1800 costs less than the FV15HP and seems to have more output above 30Hz while the FV15HP offers more flexibility with the pluggable port and ability for deeper extension.

I would love for someone to directly compare IcePower HCOM technology vs Rythmik Servo (@JimWilson;??). I have a feeling that servo's SQ gap is not what it once was before the ID vendors started using Speakerpower.

Enrico, has Rythmik tested the IcePower amps in-house? Care to comment? :smiley:

Admittedly, my purchasing consideration was always Rythmik 1, PSA 2. I really wanted the FV15HP (2 of them no less), but size and weight were a problem (I have some physical disabilities) as well as price. Same went for the V1500.

I ended up compromising and going with S1500s because of price (I ordered from their outlet) and weight (my back thanks me). REW tells me they extend down to 6Hz in my room (3000 ft?, sealed & upstairs w/raised wood subfloor) but my UMIK is only calibrated down to 20Hz. I feel that Tactile Transducers make up for anything I sacrificed by not going ported.
Regarding sub damage caused by abuse, it's not covered by any warranty.

Playing very deep, very loud content for a sustained period of time would be abuse. As would overusing high Q and/or high gain EQ filters, especially boosting ulf significantly. Playing loud distorted/clipping signals, too.

Basically, if you do something you're not supposed to and it directly leads to sub damage, you shouldn't expect the manufacturer to pay for something that occurred outside of normal use. It's like any manufacturer's warranty on electronics, etc.

Only exception would something like AppleCare for the iPhone (accidental damage coverage).
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post #24945 of 28258 Old 08-09-2016, 10:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
Sometimes when I read posts that argue that all well designed subwoofers sound the same, it really makes me LOL. So in this forum when you ask for advice about speakers everybody says AUDITION the more speakers you can and get the one that sounds better for you, but when you ask for subwoofer advice then the advice is get the subwoofer that plays louder and has the better SPL/money ratio. Like if subwoofers weren't speakers. That's just plain nonsense.
While I don't believe in using CEA-2010 burst numbers to characterize/compare subs, I do believe that subwoofers can be quantified with measurements much more easily and objectively than can be with speakers. Maximum Long Term Output/compression, Impulse Response, Spectral Decay, etc.

Agree? Disagree?

Unfortunately, rarely are two subs ever compared directly at the same time under the same conditions. No two manufacturers publish the same sets of data. Some don't seem to publish anything other than a FR they could have dreampt up!

One thing I do know. All of the competition in the ID and DIY space has resulted in a greater number of affordable (relatively) high performance options available to consumers. I feel like we are in a golden age, I don't wish for any "good 'ol days", so to speak.
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post #24946 of 28258 Old 08-09-2016, 10:10 AM
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We did test IcePower modules when we were looking for digital amps for our HX series amplifiers, same for Hypex modules. The problem with IcePower modules is that they are fully complementary and not so servo friendly. In addition, the biggest problem is we are not allowed to touch the circuit inside IcePower. The circuit is fully integrated into their switching power module and we do prefer to use transformer power supply instead. Hypex modules are fully customizable and we can make all the changes we need to make for them to work with our direct servo technology. But both of them are good sounding amp modules, though.



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post #24947 of 28258 Old 08-09-2016, 10:20 AM
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@enricoclaudio or @Rythmik , I assume you have listened to a variety of manufacturers' systems for competive analysis.

Edited: I can see how my question could be taken out of context. My apologies, even in context it was an unfair and perhaps unanswerable question. We are spoiled having direct access to experts as yourselves.

THANKS👍
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post #24948 of 28258 Old 08-09-2016, 11:32 AM
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Here another great tune that put a smile in my face every time I play it in any of my sound systems.

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Media Room: Ascend Acoustics Sierra Towers w/ RAAL, Horizon w/ RAAL & Sierra 2s | Rythmik F12SE (x2) | Marantz SR7008 | Parasound Halo P5 | Emotiva XPA-3 & XPA-200 | Oppo 105D | Sony HW40ES |
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post #24949 of 28258 Old 08-09-2016, 12:11 PM
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ANY word on the rhythmic ported 18" release dates?
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post #24950 of 28258 Old 08-09-2016, 01:08 PM
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As for FV18 and FV25HP we are moving these as fast as we can. Right now our current ETA is mid to late October. We are doing both projects at the same time and that's the main reason for the delay. Both, DS1820 and DS1520 drivers are almost ready for mass production. Same for the HX1000XLR3 (FV18) and HX2000XLR3 (FV25HP) amps.
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post #24951 of 28258 Old 08-09-2016, 01:13 PM
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I've seen some pictures of the f25hp but any production pics of the f18hp?
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post #24952 of 28258 Old 08-09-2016, 02:25 PM
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We posted pre production pictures for both, FV18 and FV25HP. No production pictures yet.



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Media Room: Ascend Acoustics Sierra Towers w/ RAAL, Horizon w/ RAAL & Sierra 2s | Rythmik F12SE (x2) | Marantz SR7008 | Parasound Halo P5 | Emotiva XPA-3 & XPA-200 | Oppo 105D | Sony HW40ES |
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post #24953 of 28258 Old 08-09-2016, 02:51 PM
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Must have missed the pictures of the f18. Guess I will search this thread again.

Thank you
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post #24954 of 28258 Old 08-09-2016, 03:07 PM
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Quote:
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Must have missed the pictures of the f18. Guess I will search this thread again.

Thank you
Here is the post where Brian posted the prototype picture of the FV18.

Official Rythmik Audio Subwoofer thread



Here the picture of the DS1820 cast aluminum basket

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Media Room: Ascend Acoustics Sierra Towers w/ RAAL, Horizon w/ RAAL & Sierra 2s | Rythmik F12SE (x2) | Marantz SR7008 | Parasound Halo P5 | Emotiva XPA-3 & XPA-200 | Oppo 105D | Sony HW40ES |
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post #24955 of 28258 Old 08-09-2016, 03:32 PM
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Thank you, looked about 30 pages back and coulet find it.
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post #24956 of 28258 Old 08-09-2016, 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
Is all of this accurate? I thought that the modern amps use limiters which allow you to push subs hard without worry/risk of damage?
Push hard, yes you can, but even with advanced protection mechanisms abuse can/will cause damage. Think along the lines of computer anti-virus software; 99% of the time it saves your butt from infection, with no effort on your part, but it's not infallible. There is a chance, however slight, that some combination of unforeseen-by-the-engineer circumstances will conspire against you. Then there's physics...

Sealed alignments use the trapped internal air as an additional spring cushion, helping to dampen cone movements when pushed. This can be a rather significant advantage for extreme output situations. With bass reflex the driver will 'unload' and run in 'free air' below the port tuning frequency. That's a fancy way of saying its movement can no longer be completely controlled. Because of that a ported subwoofer has a greater potential of suffering damage than a sealed unit would were both pushed to their respective limits. That can be mitigated by proper DSP tuning, among other things, but it can not be eliminated.

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Last edited by JimWilson; 08-09-2016 at 04:01 PM.
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post #24957 of 28258 Old 08-09-2016, 05:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Theriddler07sms View Post
The fv15hp did cross my mind but the shipping is the killer for me. If I didn't like it I would have paid over $300 for shipping both ways. On top of the $150 I will have spent on the F12 shipping both ways. That's too much money to lose on a possibility. I've never gambled $300 before and I don't plan to start.

If the ported 18 doesn't fit my needs than in only losing shipping one direction. Than I will know that bigger and more sealed is the way to go and I will get into the DIY side of things.
As a recent owner of a fv15hp, I can testify to its awesomeness. I'm still working on the full integration with my room but it is still a huge improvement from the much older model 18" I had previously. So much tighter and under control. One area that immediately struck me was how much better the sub integrated with the mains. And when it needs to fill the room (aprox 2800sf) with bass, it's there.

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post #24958 of 28258 Old 08-09-2016, 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Theriddler07sms View Post
So a psa v1800 isn't as "tight" as a Rythmik ported? I'm not going to get the feeling of my couch shaking with a ported sub?
Not certain how you got that out of this thread. Generally speaking sealed subs are "tighter" than ported subs so your inquiry is 180-degrees from what was previously stated here.

As others have already pointed out the internal components can also make a significant impact so a high end ported sub with servo tech (like Rythmik) may well perform "tighter" than another brands sealed sub without servo control. I'll leave it to you to figure out which ones those may be

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Last edited by ndabunka; 08-09-2016 at 07:00 PM.
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post #24959 of 28258 Old 08-09-2016, 06:59 PM
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Oh sorry, there was a comment about switching from rythnik would be gong to a less tight and more boomy of a bass.

The f25hp and f18 interest me. As well as the dual 15" sealed sub rythmik has.

I'm not sure how much I want to chase single digits if a fv15hp can get me around 12hz in room gain anyway.

I've uped my budget which now opened a whole new can of worms haha
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post #24960 of 28258 Old 08-09-2016, 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Theriddler07sms View Post
Oh sorry, there was a comment about switching from rythnik would be gong to a less tight and more boomy of a bass.
Ah, I see the problem is with terminology.
I don't view boomy as the inverse of "tight". "Muddy" is the inverse of tight.
Both and neither could be "boomy" as that could well depend on the way the sub is tuned to your room. Some think a sub they just bought lacks "punch"/BOOM but in most cases, they have simply set up the dials on the sub poorly or placed it poorly in the room.

Note: Since Rythmik's use servo tech, they are less "muddy" than others of simlar design (holds true for ported and sealed).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Theriddler07sms View Post
I'm not sure how much I want to chase single digits if a fv15hp can get me around 12hz in room gain anyway.
Do some more research on what you are ACTUALLY getting with such low frequencies
Hint: It's NOT what it appears you "think" you would be getting

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f12g subwoofer , lv12r , Rythmik , Rythmik Audio , Rythmik Audio F12 Direct Servo Subwoofer , Rythmik Audio F15 Subwoofer , servo sub

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