Official Rythmik Audio Subwoofer thread - Page 835 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #25021 of 30690 Old 08-12-2016, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
However, I've heard they are nowhere nearly as important as side surrounds and that they don't have much unique content nor are used as much in surround effects vs. the side surrounds. Also, a lot of movies are still 5.1 and for movies or music I find matrix modes more of a novelty vs. meaningful improvement.
This was much more true in the past.
Now there are more and more 7.1 movies every day and the mixes include much more content for back surrounds in particular. Not as much as side surrounds in most cases but if you listened with and without back surrounds the bs would be an obvious omission when not used.
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post #25022 of 30690 Old 08-12-2016, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
I assume its the part about rear surrounds and 7.1 content you mainly disagree with?
What I mostly disagree with is making getting a second very nice sub for $600 MUCH more of a priority when he has $10/pair surrounds that could be vastly improved by spending $75.
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post #25023 of 30690 Old 08-12-2016, 10:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post
That's not really true with today's mixes. They put out a lot of sound.
And I listen to music a lot so they are very important to me. Those Yamaha speakers are truly crap. No way I would have them.
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Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post
I know this is a sub thread but I'm really surprised that everyone thinks it's MUCH more important to have $1200 worth of subs than to replace front height and back surround htib speakers worth $10/pair.
The Yamaha speakers I have are crap. (edited)

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Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
So...you're going with the "dual end table subs" idea after all?? Glad I could help you spend some money.

BTW, I vote for a second LV12R as well...MUCH more of an upgrade than new heights, not even a close race.
Here is the plan as of now. Picked up a pair of Polk Audio T15s today to use as heights. $70. Going to move LV12R to immediate right of MLP ~3ft away. Will see if this helps response or hurts it due to the close proximity. Picked up 25ft long sub RCA cable (and a female to dual male splitter so I have it if I decided to run line in after all. Going to move the Yamaha Front Heights that I have now to the rear surrounds since the current rear surrounds are even further crappy than they are. If the Polks sound good - I'll snag another pair for rear surrounds.
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post #25024 of 30690 Old 08-12-2016, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post
What I mostly disagree with is making getting a second very nice sub for $600 MUCH more of a priority when he has $10/pair surrounds that could be vastly improved by spending $75.
I think they were comparing $600 for front heights vs. $600 for 2nd Sub. If I got 2 pairs of B&W 686s for heights and rears, it would have cost me $600. But Im taking the suggestion to just get the Polk T15s and see how I do. I don't think the sound content that comes out of the front height and rear surround channels warrants timbre matching expensive speakers.
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post #25025 of 30690 Old 08-12-2016, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by citsur86 View Post
Yamaha speakers are crap.



Here is the plan as of now. Picked up a pair of Polk Audio T15s today to use as heights. $70. Going to move LV12R to immediate right of MLP ~3ft away. Will see if this helps response or hurts it due to the close proximity. Picked up 25ft long sub RCA cable (and a female to dual male splitter so I have it if I decided to run line in after all. Going to move the Yamaha Front Heights that I have now to the rear surrounds since the current rear surrounds are even further crappy than they are. If the Polks sound good - I'll snag another pair for rear surrounds.
Sounds like a good plan.
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post #25026 of 30690 Old 08-12-2016, 12:00 PM
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I heard wides were good.

I want to try a Rythmik sub
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post #25027 of 30690 Old 08-12-2016, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by citsur86 View Post
I think they were comparing $600 for front heights vs. $600 for 2nd Sub. If I got 2 pairs of B&W 686s for heights and rears, it would have cost me $600. But Im taking the suggestion to just get the Polk T15s and see how I do. I don't think the sound content that comes out of the front height and rear surround channels warrants timbre matching expensive speakers.
I'm using Polk TL3s for surround in my bedroom setup with B&W 685 S2s and B&W HTM62 S2 center and they sound pretty good. I got the pair of TL3s for $203 at the Polk Audio eBay Store.
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post #25028 of 30690 Old 08-12-2016, 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Theriddler07sms View Post
$1899 is definitely in the wheel house. I don't expect they would include shipping at that price, but maybe for their pre orders or introductory deals ;-)
In case I missed it, what sub are you currently using/auditioning?
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post #25029 of 30690 Old 08-12-2016, 02:26 PM
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None, had an F12 that has been boxed up all week waiting for return orders. Taking a step up, more like a giant leap up haha
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post #25030 of 30690 Old 08-12-2016, 04:09 PM
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^^ I thought you ordered the V1800? I honestly think you should quickly grab that used FV15hp pair. I take this pair over the Cap1400 any day, especially when you could get the FV pair for the same price of a Cap1400, not because I am a Rythmik fan but think about it.

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post #25031 of 30690 Old 08-12-2016, 05:41 PM
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Originally Posted by tvuong View Post
^^ I thought you ordered the V1800? I honestly think you should quickly grab that used FV15hp pair. I take this pair over the Cap1400 any day, especially when you could get the FV pair for the same price of a Cap1400, not because I am a Rythmik fan but think about it.
I havent made any decisions yet. Still weighing my options. I have the funds for dual F12s but now I will either put that towards dual FV15HP used, or single V1500, V1800, Cap1400 or another deal came up that I am considering as well.

I still havent gottent he return authorization yet. Sub has been boxed up for a week already.
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post #25032 of 30690 Old 08-12-2016, 06:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Theriddler07sms View Post
I havent made any decisions yet. Still weighing my options. I have the funds for dual F12s but now I will either put that towards dual FV15HP used, or single V1500, V1800, Cap1400 or another deal came up that I am considering as well.

I still havent gottent he return authorization yet. Sub has been boxed up for a week already.
The dual fv15hps are your best option by a long shot. They have the best sound quality (duals/servo) and have the most output for the same price as your other options.

I haven't been following along closely, so don't know of any other constraints, but just price for performance, there is a clear choice here, IMO.
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post #25033 of 30690 Old 08-12-2016, 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted by dominguez1 View Post
The dual fv15hps are your best option by a long shot. They have the best sound quality (duals/servo) and have the most output for the same price as your other options.

I haven't been following along closely, so don't know of any other constraints, but just price for performance, there is a clear choice here, IMO.
No other constraints. Size doesn't matter. I want ported. I want as much output as possible haha.
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post #25034 of 30690 Old 08-12-2016, 06:25 PM
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A single FV15HP outperforms a V1500. You may not want to wait if its a good price.

A Cap1400 is equivalent to a V3600i. FV18HP may end up being equivalent and FV25HP more but we don't know much yet.
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post #25035 of 30690 Old 08-12-2016, 06:30 PM
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Originally Posted by citsur86 View Post
...I can only turn on the front heights OR the rear surrounds. I usually use the front heights - unless I am watching a movie known for a really good surround 7.1 mix - in which case I turn off the front heights and turn on the rear surrounds...
More info on how you actually DO this? I also have an older Yamaha amp that allows one OR the other but there is no "easy" way to switch between the two. I do have an old sonance speaker A-B switching box I could use but am wanting to avoid all that old-tech stuff so would not want to do that

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post #25036 of 30690 Old 08-12-2016, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Theriddler07sms View Post
No other constraints. Size doesn't matter. I want ported. I want as much output as possible haha.
This is going to be nearfield right? If so go for a single sub with a ton of output, IMHO. Sounds like you are willing to wait on the FV18HP.

Maybe Rythmik is wanting you to keep the F12 until the new subs are available. What's the holdup on return?
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post #25037 of 30690 Old 08-12-2016, 06:45 PM
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Originally Posted by ndabunka View Post
More info on how you actually DO this? I also have an older Yamaha amp that allows one OR the other but there is no "easy" way to switch between the two. I do have an old sonance speaker A-B switching box I could use but am wanting to avoid all that old-tech stuff so would not want to do that
What model Yamaha?
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post #25038 of 30690 Old 08-12-2016, 07:29 PM
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What model Yamaha?
RX-V2400. Why do you ask? Do you think the Panny he is using may have switching features built into his AVR that I might not have? If so, that is why I was asking him how he did it.

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post #25039 of 30690 Old 08-12-2016, 07:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
This is going to be nearfield right? If so go for a single sub with a ton of output, IMHO. Sounds like you are willing to wait on the FV18HP.

Maybe Rythmik is wanting you to keep the F12 until the new subs are available. What's the holdup on return?
Im not sure on placement. I could go one near and one in front right of TV. If I just got one I would initially place it up front than move to nearfield if there wasnt enough feeling.

I dont think I will wait until the FV18HP or the FV25HP at this point. There are a couple great offers out there for dual subs as well as Cap1400.

Just waiting for Return Authorization so I can run it to UPS and get it sent back. Enrico and Dina (ascend) are aware of the return. Just need the correct RA number.
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post #25040 of 30690 Old 08-12-2016, 07:50 PM
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Originally Posted by ndabunka View Post
RX-V2400. Why do you ask? Do you think the Panny he is using may have switching features built into his AVR that I might not have? If so, that is why I was asking him how he did it.
Does the 2400 have a GUI (on screen display)?
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post #25041 of 30690 Old 08-12-2016, 07:57 PM
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Originally Posted by ndabunka View Post
More info on how you actually DO this? I also have an older Yamaha amp that allows one OR the other but there is no "easy" way to switch between the two. I do have an old sonance speaker A-B switching box I could use but am wanting to avoid all that old-tech stuff so would not want to do that
On Yamaha you connect both and it switches automatically. You can choose priority=surround back/presence for Yamaha DSP modes. It automatically chooses SB for 7.1 sources. For 5.1 it will choose SB if you activate EX/ES/PLII. For DSP modes it will choose based on your priority setting.

I used to have the 1400. I have a 1800 and 2800 now and they all operate the same. It is well documented in the users manual.

Yes, there is a GUI… as archaic as it may be. The 2800 introduced the newer, more modern yammy GUI.

Last edited by Marc Alexander; 08-12-2016 at 08:07 PM.
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post #25042 of 30690 Old 08-12-2016, 08:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post
Does the 2400 have a GUI (on screen display)?
It has an RS-232 interface on the rear that I had been controlling with a software application called Cinemar (to control zones mostly). I use the remote for the HT aspects. I do have some on-screen capablities but those are mostly for YPAO rather than a daily interactive resource.

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post #25043 of 30690 Old 08-12-2016, 08:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
On Yamaha you connect both and it switches automatically. You can choose priority=surround back/precense for Yamaha DSP modes. It automatically chooses SB for 7.1 sources. For 5.1 it will choose SB if you activate EX/ES/PLII. For DSP modes it will choose based on your priority setting.

I used to have the 1400. I have a 1800 and 2800 now and they all operate the same. It is well documented in the users manual.

Yes, there is a GUI… as archaic as it may be. The 2800 introduced the newer, more modern yammy GUI.
Thanks for the insight. I believe I was concerned that if I connected the front prescence and the 7.1 rears at the same time I might unnecessarily introduce complications of reduced OHMs across those two separate sets of speakers (I think the Speakercraft inwalls were all 6-Ohm speakers).

I have to admit that mine was a B-Stock that did not come with a manual. At least I don't recall seeing one. Controlling the Yammy some 12-14 years ago when I first put it in place was a bit of a challenge at that point but that was mostly due to having to use (and create myself) the custom GUI interfaces at that time. I was a seasoned programmer (Lab Windows and others) and the Cinemar stuff was as close as I could get to that for controls. Worked out pretty well and I guess I could still use it if I wanted to kill more brain cells but at this point, I have more free cash and will likely pick up either a new, old stock 2050 (once I find one at a good price under $1K) or I'll just buy a new 2060 or 3060 based on hw many speakers I decide to eventually go with.

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post #25044 of 30690 Old 08-12-2016, 08:19 PM
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My friend, Yamaha has been posting and archiving PDF manuals for ever since I can remember. Just download it.

http://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio...2400_black__u/

Google and you will also probably find the old RX-V1400/2400 AVS thread.

I sold mine when the PS3 came out and upgraded to the 1600. The 1800/2800 dropped THX cert and modes but the amplifiers are much higher quality from this point forward. I believe the RX-10x0 and higher are the newer equivalents (Aventage).
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post #25045 of 30690 Old 08-12-2016, 08:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Theriddler07sms View Post
No other constraints. Size doesn't matter. I want ported. I want as much output as possible haha.
So what's stopping you from jumping on the dual fv's? More output, better sound quality, better extension, better tactile response...

?
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post #25046 of 30690 Old 08-12-2016, 09:02 PM
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Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post
First one is speculative, but I'd imagine the upcoming FV25 would qualify. From there you go right into the JTR S2 and 4000ULF. A ghorn is the next logical choice, and I bet a DTS 10 would hang with it for most of the passband. But this being a Rythmik thread the debate should stop here; no reason to go OT.

There's no question the Mariana 24 is a beastly sub - and David is a first rate guy that I hope is wildly successful - but there are competitors to his subs. I'd make a wager he would be the first one to tell you that.
Technically, you were the first one to mention the many competitive offerings. I'm proud of my subs and definitely stand behind them but there are definitely many consumer options, with many different designs and focuses, and that was before I had any notion of Brian bringing out a servo 18" subwoofer. Kudos to him, I'm sure it's going to be a great subwoofer and I hope I get the opportunity to listen to it sometime.
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post #25047 of 30690 Old 08-12-2016, 09:17 PM
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Originally Posted by ndabunka View Post
Thanks for the insight. I believe I was concerned that if I connected the front prescence and the 7.1 rears at the same time I might unnecessarily introduce complications of reduced OHMs across those two separate sets of speakers (I think the Speakercraft inwalls were all 6-Ohm speakers).



I have to admit that mine was a B-Stock that did not come with a manual. At least I don't recall seeing one. Controlling the Yammy some 12-14 years ago when I first put it in place was a bit of a challenge at that point but that was mostly due to having to use (and create myself) the custom GUI interfaces at that time. I was a seasoned programmer (Lab Windows and others) and the Cinemar stuff was as close as I could get to that for controls. Worked out pretty well and I guess I could still use it if I wanted to kill more brain cells but at this point, I have more free cash and will likely pick up either a new, old stock 2050 (once I find one at a good price under $1K) or I'll just buy a new 2060 or 3060 based on hw many speakers I decide to eventually go with.


Sorry for the late response. It's kind of weird. The VSX-44 lets you run MCACC (EQ) on both the front height mode and surround back mode. You can change between the two modes in the menu under SP SYSTEM. However what I'm finding is that even though the manual explicitly says that if you have all 9 setup you should run MCACC, switch speaker system, and run again, when I do this is forgets the first MCACC run. If I switch speaker system say from front heights to rear surrounds, the MCACC is still for the front heights, so I have to rerun that. Once in a specific speaker system, options become available. Like using front heights system introduces the PLIIz mode while any other speaker system mode won't ever show that. I'm still a bit confused as even in Speaker system front height mode, I still get option to enable surround backs, they just don't play anything. I've asked in the VSX -44 thread about this and have never gotten an answer.

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post #25048 of 30690 Old 08-12-2016, 10:03 PM
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Sorry don't want to go too far off topic but I just figured it out!! After so long I took a hard look and realized all the speakers that are the same between the two speaker systems (the core 5.1) stay the same between the two for distance and level. The only ones that change, obviously, are the ones being added, either front heights or rear surrounds. The reason the rear surrounds are an option in speaker set selection when in surr back mode and vice versa is so you don't have to go back in the settings and switch it each time! You just leave it to always have all 9 as yes and when you switch the speaker system it knows what to do, so there really is no need to run MCACC each time. There's even a button on the remote to switch between rear surrounds and front heights. I'm a happy dude right now. Been chewing on this for months without an answer lol.
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post #25049 of 30690 Old 08-12-2016, 10:07 PM
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Front Height Settings





Surr. Back Settings





Speaker Setttings in both System Choices



Speaker System set to Height



Speaker System set to Surr. Back



Ok back on topic now, I'm going to sleep. Hope this helps though!
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post #25050 of 30690 Old 08-12-2016, 10:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dominguez1 View Post
So what's stopping you from jumping on the dual fv's? More output, better sound quality, better extension, better tactile response...

?
Waiting for my Rythmik F12 return and refund. Have some of the money I need tied up in that right now.
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f12g subwoofer , integra dtc 9.8 , lv12r , Rythmik , Rythmik Audio , Rythmik Audio F12 Direct Servo Subwoofer , Rythmik Audio F15 Subwoofer , servo sub

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