Official Rythmik Audio Subwoofer thread - Page 859 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #25741 of 30664 Old 08-29-2016, 06:14 PM
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Side note: this came today - paid $11 on eBay. Excited to watch the whole thing with the FV15HP! The demo clip from one of the bass demos was amazing.



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post #25742 of 30664 Old 08-29-2016, 09:06 PM
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Originally Posted by citsur86 View Post
Side note: this came today - paid $11 on eBay. Excited to watch the whole thing with the FV15HP! The demo clip from one of the bass demos was amazing.



I have the 3D version on order from Germany.
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post #25743 of 30664 Old 08-29-2016, 09:14 PM
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Well, Rythmic got my F12 back today. Had a small blemish on one of the corners due to trying to place between the wall and couch it scraped on the wall. Ascend got the center cabinet back today but have not heard from them. Either way, my FV15HP should be shipping very soon.
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post #25744 of 30664 Old 08-30-2016, 06:23 AM
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Originally Posted by citsur86 View Post
Yeah looks like 100hz gives me a real bad crossover dip and spike, so went back to 80hz. This is 1/6 smoothed, but it doesn't look half bad.



This is with the sub +3 from the -6 MCACC put it at. It's a nice 9-10db boost from 13hz-70hz.

Here is Channel 4 - LFE



Too bad I can't listen until tomorrow! Watched a couple episodes of Stranger Things with the wife earlier tonight, not a ton of bass, but there were some pretty cool parts where even at relatively lower volumes, (-20 from reference), we could feel the couch pulsing. Cool! OH I also forgot to mention I picked up a second pair of Polk T15s today for my rear surrounds. So now the front heights and rear surrounds are all the same Polk T15. Kind of a funny story. When I bought the first pair at best buy on 8/14, they were $69.99. Today I went to best buy to return a cord i didn't need (from same time I bought the first T15 pair), and the T15s today were $99 (even on Amazon!). So I went to do the return and purchase and the customer service guy noticed the price I paid for them on 8/14 from the receipt - and took $30 off for me on this pair! Anyways, thought I would share - first time I got lucky like that at Best Buy. $30 is $30...
Is this what you finally settled on?

I found a mild house curve myself, starting at my 90Hz crossover point and ending at 30Hz, where I shelved the response. Flatter sounded flabby in the mid to upper bass and steeper was sounding ominous with everything on the low end.




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post #25745 of 30664 Old 08-30-2016, 06:34 AM
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Here's the PEQ details:


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post #25746 of 30664 Old 08-30-2016, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
Is this what you finally settled on?

I found a mild house curve myself, starting at my 90Hz crossover point and ending at 30Hz, where I shelved the response. Flatter sounded flabby in the mid to upper bass and steeper was sounding ominous with everything on the low end.
This is what I settled on. It's the best I've heard it when it's like this. I agree with what you said - steeper definitely sounded bloated and constantly rumbling. Too flat and I was missing some of the lower bass. This slight bump in the lows seemed to give me balanced low, rumbly bass when warranted, with cleaner mid-high bass.
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post #25747 of 30664 Old 08-30-2016, 08:39 AM
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Logos?
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post #25748 of 30664 Old 08-30-2016, 08:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
Here's the PEQ details:

Looks like the image is gone. Can't see it. One other thing to note about my settings is that I'm still not sure whether I like the 80hz or 100hz xover better. I've tried switching it a few times during movies and can't decide which i like more.
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post #25749 of 30664 Old 08-30-2016, 09:12 AM
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Originally Posted by citsur86 View Post
Looks like the image is gone. Can't see it. One other thing to note about my settings is that I'm still not sure whether I like the 80hz or 100hz xover better. I've tried switching it a few times during movies and can't decide which i like more.
Because your receiver uses a global crossover for the speakers and LFE, I recommend 100Hz. Otherwise, you will be throwing away more midbass.
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post #25750 of 30664 Old 08-30-2016, 10:19 AM
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Because your receiver uses a global crossover for the speakers and LFE, I recommend 100Hz. Otherwise, you will be throwing away more midbass.
Well - yes and no. Keep in mind that the LPF of LFE as well as the LF crossover are shelved roll offs, not brick walls. This means a 100Hz Xover vs. a 80Hz Xover is less dramatic than it seems, since the 20Hz difference is minimal when you consider the shelf. Funny you bring this up because I was just reading up on it from something Plasma had sent me a while back. If you're interested, read this section for some more detailed info: "Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #51779)

Basically, the article cites "Roger Dressler (formerly of Dolby Labs and the guy who helped them develop many of their technologies, including bass management) and Mark Seaton (founder and owner of Seaton Sound, makers of the legendary Submersive subwoofers)" on their thoughts regarding crossovers. They wind up concluding that "But I find that LFE in the 100-120 Hz region is just a lot of boominess that unfortunately too often clouds the deeper bass in the bottom 2 octaves. Setting the LFE filter to 80 Hz does a dandy job of dealing with that boominess IMHO."
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post #25751 of 30664 Old 08-30-2016, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by citsur86 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
Here's the PEQ details:

Looks like the image is gone. Can't see it. One other thing to note about my settings is that I'm still not sure whether I like the 80hz or 100hz xover better. I've tried switching it a few times during movies and can't decide which i like more.
It shows on my laptop but not my phone.
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post #25752 of 30664 Old 08-30-2016, 10:39 AM
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here it is again:




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-7.1ch Bedroom HT-
Samsung UN46EH6030
Yamaha RX-A2070
SVS Prime Bookshelf and Prime Center
Sony SS-CS5 Surrounds and Cambridge S20 Rear Surrounds
Rythmik LV12R
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post #25753 of 30664 Old 08-30-2016, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
here it is again:


Looks good! Get some listening time in yet on it? Only thing I see is maybe trying to add a manual PK PEQ filter around 88Hz or 89Hz to trim down about -5db. Looks like a Q of 4-5 would be best. Maybe give that a shot along with the auto generated filters and see if it brings that small peak down? This is probably even overkill though - but its probably something I would have tried, just to see if nothing else.
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post #25754 of 30664 Old 08-30-2016, 11:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by citsur86 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
here it is again:


Looks good! Get some listening time in yet on it? Only thing I see is maybe trying to add a manual PK PEQ filter around 88Hz or 89Hz to trim down about -5db. Looks like a Q of 4-5 would be best. Maybe give that a shot along with the auto generated filters and see if it brings that small peak down? This is probably even overkill though - but its probably something I would have tried, just to see if nothing else.
Few days worth of listening and it is spot on. Only thing I'm playing with is how hot to run the sw trim. Right looks to be about 10dB hot at 20Hz to 30Hz.

BTW, that peak is from the CC frequency response, not the sub. And I have auto PEQ off on my Yamaha AVR since it sounds bad (low res and distorted vs off). So, those measures are with MiniDSP PEQ for the sub and zero EQ for the speakers.
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post #25755 of 30664 Old 08-30-2016, 02:01 PM
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Well - yes and no. Keep in mind that the LPF of LFE as well as the LF crossover are shelved roll offs, not brick walls. This means a 100Hz Xover vs. a 80Hz Xover is less dramatic than it seems, since the 20Hz difference is minimal when you consider the shelf. Funny you bring this up because I was just reading up on it from something Plasma had sent me a while back. If you're interested, read this section for some more detailed info: "Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #51779)

Basically, the article cites "Roger Dressler (formerly of Dolby Labs and the guy who helped them develop many of their technologies, including bass management) and Mark Seaton (founder and owner of Seaton Sound, makers of the legendary Submersive subwoofers)" on their thoughts regarding crossovers. They wind up concluding that "But I find that LFE in the 100-120 Hz region is just a lot of boominess that unfortunately too often clouds the deeper bass in the bottom 2 octaves. Setting the LFE filter to 80 Hz does a dandy job of dealing with that boominess IMHO."
Tapatalk took me to some strange thread but I finally got on Firefox and read the link. Very interesting, good points being made.

I think the OP's statement after the quotes you cite speaks to the importance if the midbass demo disc project for the evaluation of one's own midbass response and personal taste.

Quote:
I should emphasise that the generally accepted setting for the LPF of LFE is 120Hz. However, this is one of those 'preference' issues which members may want to experiment with and come to their own conclusions. I have tried it myself and found that I can definitely hear (or feel) a difference between 80Hz and 120Hz for the LPF. 120Hz gives more slam and I feel the gunshots etc more in my chest. But Roger is right - it also adds a touch of boom too. 80Hz gives a little less slam but overall it's tighter. We're talking small, but noticeable differences. It also seems to be movie-dependent - I guess some mixers add more to the LFE channel than others, or more above 80Hz anyway.
I feel like the boominess would not be at issue when discussing Rythmik servo subs though.
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post #25756 of 30664 Old 08-30-2016, 02:06 PM
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Here is the link for Michael's mid-bass demo disc project.

http://www.avsforum.com/showthread.php?t=2527177
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post #25757 of 30664 Old 08-30-2016, 02:37 PM
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I feel like the boominess would not be at issue when discussing Rythmik servo subs though.
If its poorly placed/setup it would be.
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post #25758 of 30664 Old 08-30-2016, 02:47 PM
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I feel like the boominess would not be at issue when discussing Rythmik servo subs though.
If its poorly placed/setup it would be.
+1, that has been my experience
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post #25759 of 30664 Old 08-30-2016, 03:00 PM
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I know boomy is a relative term, but I always used it to describe increase in 80-160hz FR from flat. if you have your sub crossed over at 80hz, I find it hard to get that boomy sound. now if you have your gain/trims adjusted too high, corner loaded, etc...you may have excess ringing. its actually pretty hard to get great bass and minimum ringing imo.

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post #25760 of 30664 Old 08-30-2016, 03:24 PM
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I know boomy is a relative term, but I always used it to describe increase in 80-160hz FR from flat. if you have your sub crossed over at 80hz, I find it hard to get that boomy sound. now if you have your gain/trims adjusted too high, corner loaded, etc...you may have excess ringing. its actually pretty hard to get great bass and minimum ringing imo.
Well, LFE goes to 120Hz and most here run things 6dB hot or more... combine that with bass heavy movies and boominess can occur easily if the stuff above 80Hz isn't rolled off (partially).

Even when the LPF for the LFE channel is set to the (correct) 120Hz setting, assuming 24dB per octave slope, it is about 6dB down at 120Hz. So, even AVRs with a fixed 120Hz 24dB per octave LPF for LFE are rolling things off in the 80Hz to 120Hz range.

So, when using REW for sub EQ, it's a good idea to have that as part of the target line so that the sub is not playing ruler flat to 120Hz or higher, which will sound bad (IMO).
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post #25761 of 30664 Old 08-30-2016, 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by citsur86 View Post
Looks good! Get some listening time in yet on it? Only thing I see is maybe trying to add a manual PK PEQ filter around 88Hz or 89Hz to trim down about -5db. Looks like a Q of 4-5 would be best. Maybe give that a shot along with the auto generated filters and see if it brings that small peak down? This is probably even overkill though - but its probably something I would have tried, just to see if nothing else.
You do more harm them good when you start adding extra filters just to tame small peaks. Best to leave it alone. We only hear with our eyes when we buy something new.
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post #25762 of 30664 Old 08-30-2016, 04:29 PM
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You do more harm them good when you start adding extra filters just to tame small peaks. Best to leave it alone. We only hear with our eyes when we buy something new.
I agree. 9 out of 10 times when i tried to fix a small peak it either didn't help visually, or it sounded worse. But my current PEQ has a filter to fix a similar peak I had and it actually sounded better. That's why I say I always give it a shot.
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post #25763 of 30664 Old 08-30-2016, 05:15 PM
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You do more harm them good when you start adding extra filters just to tame small peaks. Best to leave it alone. We only hear with our eyes when we buy something new.
I agree. 9 out of 10 times when i tried to fix a small peak it either didn't help visually, or it sounded worse. But my current PEQ has a filter to fix a similar peak I had and it actually sounded better. That's why I say I always give it a shot.
Yeah, I would if I had a way to manually PEQ the CC at the moment... but it looks like I have to let Audyssey do it when I get a new AVR. My FL and FR speakers have similar peaks too.
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post #25764 of 30664 Old 08-30-2016, 05:25 PM
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Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
Well, LFE goes to 120Hz and most here run things 6dB hot or more... combine that with bass heavy movies and boominess can occur easily if the stuff above 80Hz isn't rolled off (partially).

Even when the LPF for the LFE channel is set to the (correct) 120Hz setting, assuming 24dB per octave slope, it is about 6dB down at 120Hz. So, even AVRs with a fixed 120Hz 24dB per octave LPF for LFE are rolling things off in the 80Hz to 120Hz range.

So, when using REW for sub EQ, it's a good idea to have that as part of the target line so that the sub is not playing ruler flat to 120Hz or higher, which will sound bad (IMO).
Great points. I'm going to play around a bit and make sure I don't lose mid-bass slam by allowing more rolloff.

THANKS!!
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post #25765 of 30664 Old 08-30-2016, 05:28 PM
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Yeah, I would if I had a way to manually PEQ the CC at the moment... but it looks like I have to let Audyssey do it when I get a new AVR. My FL and FR speakers have similar peaks too.
Yeah after you explained it was from the CC I understood why you didn't/couldn't. Since I'm using a receiver, I can't PEQ anything other than the Subwoofer since all the other channels are already amplified out of the AVR.
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post #25766 of 30664 Old 08-30-2016, 05:53 PM
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I can't PEQ anything other than the Subwoofer since all the other channels are already amplified out of the AVR.
You could if you had a Yamaha.
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post #25767 of 30664 Old 08-30-2016, 05:55 PM
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Side note: this came today - paid $11 on eBay. Excited to watch the whole thing with the FV15HP! The demo clip from one of the bass demos was amazing.



IMHO this disc is reference material for both audio and visuals. I have used this disc especially the opening scene, Alaska, to demo my system. It is pure audio and visual nirvana. I too have the FV15HP and it really adds depth to the experience. I'll echo others here, you really need to make the leap to a PJ, watching Art of Flight on my 115" diagonal 16:9 screen is awesome!

I'll be very interesting in what your impressions are of this disc.

Regards,

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post #25768 of 30664 Old 08-30-2016, 06:16 PM
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IMHO this disc is reference material for both audio and visuals. I have used this disc especially the opening scene, Alaska, to demo my system. It is pure audio and visual nirvana. I too have the FV15HP and it really adds depth to the experience. I'll echo others here, you really need to make the leap to a PJ, watching Art of Flight on my 115" diagonal 16:9 screen is awesome!

I'll be very interesting in what your impressions are of this disc.

Regards,

RTROSE
Trying to make it work. Just posted this image over in my own thread to see if it's an option.
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post #25769 of 30664 Old 08-30-2016, 07:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RTROSE View Post
IMHO this disc is reference material for both audio and visuals. I have used this disc especially the opening scene, Alaska, to demo my system. It is pure audio and visual nirvana. I too have the FV15HP and it really adds depth to the experience. I'll echo others here, you really need to make the leap to a PJ, watching Art of Flight on my 115" diagonal 16:9 screen is awesome!

I'll be very interesting in what your impressions are of this disc.

Regards,

RTROSE
I just picked this one up as well. We have two competitive downhill racers in our family but we also enjoy the Warren miller stuff so figured a snowboarding video would fit in nicely with our interest. Thanks for bringing it to my attention

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post #25770 of 30664 Old 08-30-2016, 09:32 PM
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Trying to make it work. Just posted this image over in my own thread to see if it's an option.
Ideally, the projector should be in front of the screen.
You can project from the side with keystone correction, but it makes the image worse.
With lens shift, you have some latitude, but that's mostly for fine tuning without having to rely on keystone correction.

Either get rid of the fan or position the projector far enough back and hanging down far enough that the fan doesn't get in the way. Different projectors have different offsets and zoom ranges, so either plan carefully when picking the projector, or wait until you have the projector before deciding on a mounting location.

Seeing that picture makes me think, yep, a projector would be cool.
Keep in mind that most movies are 2.35:1 aspect ratio, so the image usually won't be that tall.
With that in mind, that looks like a good size.
Video games would be 16:9 and fill the screen.

Last edited by rcohen; 08-30-2016 at 09:43 PM.
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