Official Rythmik Audio Subwoofer thread - Page 865 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #25921 of 30786 Old 09-06-2016, 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by torii View Post
port chuffing at 115db? thats odd imo. I think the sub can play louder, maybe you are trying for high spl at too low a frequency??
Yes, most definitely caused by low frequency (16hz or so and below) at reference level.
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post #25922 of 30786 Old 09-06-2016, 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by kyzer soze View Post
My FV15HP should be here on wednesday (don't fail me ups) very excited to see what it can do but i'm little nervous. For one the sub dimensions are huge, i'm not sure my wife is gonna be happy with it in the living room. Second reason i love my music and i'm just not sure if ported was the right choice. The sub in my bedroom is a svs pb-1000 which is good for movies but music not so much (imo). Of course i find out SVS is having a labor day sale so i had to do it.

Ordered a svs sb13 Ultra to compare with my FV15HP. It's Rythmik's best ported vs SVS best sealed i know its not a ideal comparison but i've never heard a sealed sub and with free shipping/returns i had to try it.

Wish me luck.

the SB13 Ultra vs. the F15HP would be a more apples vs apples comparison. A more interesting comparison would be a Seaton Submersive vs. the F25.

Last edited by BDP24; 09-06-2016 at 05:30 PM.
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post #25923 of 30786 Old 09-06-2016, 05:09 PM
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Originally Posted by tvuong View Post
+1. The sb13 is rated as a musical sub by many. Looking forward to what you find comparing it with the FV15 musically.

I was about to order an SB13 Ultra when I discovered Rythmik.
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post #25924 of 30786 Old 09-06-2016, 05:12 PM
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^^ Jim Wilson already had a sb13 and E15hp comparison post, not the F15hp but the E and F15 are close performance wise. I really look forward to the sb13 and FV15 comparison. Not Apple to Apple or output comparison but....it will be fun/great to know which one is more musical.
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post #25925 of 30786 Old 09-06-2016, 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by tvuong View Post
^^ remember that those GTG's usually (always?) rate subs by output mostly and the subs were pushes beyond comfortable ears level. 90% of us doesn't listen anywhere close to that level 90% of time. Some of the guys at the GTG's even had earplugs on. You can't tell if a sub is more musical with earplugs on. I prefer to read one on one comparison like what @kyzer soze is going to do.


Those shoot-outs are unintentionally funny. Their source material is very questionable in regards to accessing sub sound quality at music reproduction, imo. What those guys value in a sub is somewhat different from what an audiophile values.

Last edited by BDP24; 09-06-2016 at 05:37 PM.
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post #25926 of 30786 Old 09-06-2016, 05:35 PM
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[quote=tvuong;46601537]^^ Jim Wilson already had a sb13 and E15hp comparison post, not the F15hp but the E and F15 are close performance wise. I really look forward to the sb13 and FV15 comparison. Not Apple to Apple or output comparison but....it will be fun/great to know which one is more musical.[/quot


You know of course that there are those who say that sealed vs. ported in regards to sound quality for music reproduction is a mistaken notion.

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post #25927 of 30786 Old 09-06-2016, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by BDP24 View Post
You know of course that there are those who say that sealed vs. ported in regards to sound quality for music reproduction is a mistaken notion.
What's the mistaken notion? Ported can sound great for music but all things equal can't match sealed for music. Even though the FV15HP has servo it still has the characteristics of a ported sub. I have found no proof that a ported Rythmik sounds as good as a sealed Rythmik or renowned sealed sub (SVS SB13U, Seaton Submersive, JTR S1, etc.).

http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/sho...FV15Hp-and-F25
Quote:
RythmikAudio said:
07-23-2015 06:41 PM
Re: Differences between Rythmik FV15Hp and F25

F25 has absolutely the least amount of phase shift or group delay (even though group delay is meaningful only for low pass filter). But it is large because it is a sealed design.

FV15HP has all the characteristic of ported subs. It is more efficient and hence output more. Normal nonservo ported subs give us this boomy bass sound. Our servo ported subs greatly reduces that signature and gives us a bit of more "fully body" sound. The instructment may sound slight larger compared to the sound from F25. For anyone with HT application, we recommend FV15HP. For anyone with music as a higher priority, F25 is a better candidate. That does not mean F25 will be bad for movies. It is just that it has less coloration associated with other nonservo subs and can really "disappear" a bit better
Every post I have seen about Sterling Sound's Rythmik purchases have been F15s and F25s, I think there is a reason no FV15HPs. Brian or Enrico please correct me if I am wrong.
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post #25928 of 30786 Old 09-06-2016, 06:30 PM
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Originally Posted by dreadnaught16 View Post
Would I gain enough headroom and DB by adding another fv15hp to eliminate port chuffing in one port mode at reference level?
Yes...for most normal sized rooms dual FV15HP's would handle about anything you throw at them in 1 port.
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post #25929 of 30786 Old 09-06-2016, 06:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
....Every post I have seen about Sterling Sound's Rythmik purchases have been F15s and F25s, I think there is a reason no FV15HPs. Brian or Enrico please correct me if I am wrong.
Most sub buyers here are buying for SPL rather than music so you get a disproportionate amount of ported buyers here (more SPL for same $'s compared to sealed). I am one of the few that have sealed and that is because I used the Rythmik components in my 20 year old sealed sub because... it fit, the price was right and the servo tech results in a great sounding sub. In the old days I would have been like others on here running REW, trying different positions and tuning til late in the evening. Now that I have grown older (and less anal to be honest), I am happy with the results of my 15" CI 1501 solution. Nope, I don't have any graphs or charts for anyone to see. At least not yet (I can still be anal when I try really hard or have spare time... )
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post #25930 of 30786 Old 09-06-2016, 07:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
What's the mistaken notion? Ported can sound great for music but all things equal can't match sealed for music. Even though the FV15HP has servo it still has the characteristics of a ported sub. I have found no proof that a ported Rythmik sounds as good as a sealed Rythmik or renowned sealed sub (SVS SB13U, Seaton Submersive, JTR S1, etc.).

http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/sho...FV15Hp-and-F25


Every post I have seen about Sterling Sound's Rythmik purchases have been F15s and F25s, I think there is a reason no FV15HPs. Brian or Enrico please correct me if I am wrong.
Sterling Sound owns F15s and F15HPs, no F25s. Omega Mastering in Houston has F25s. Texas Tech University has a pair of F15HPs in their recording studio. We have also some Film Music Studios in LA with pairs of FV15HPs. One of those is Chris Fogel @ Hyperion Studios. Some movies that Chris has mixed using our FV15HPs as reference monitors are Creed, Maze Runner: The Scorch Trials, Spy, Ghostbusters, Money Monster, Zoolander 2, The Fifth Wave, and so on....

http://www.chrisfogel.com/about.html
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Enrico Castagnetti @ Rythmik Audio
Media Room: Ascend Acoustics Sierra Towers w/ RAAL, Horizon w/ RAAL, Sierra 2s & Lunas | Rythmik F12SE (x2) | Emotiva XMC-1 | Emotiva XPA-3 & XPA-200 | Oppo 105D | Bluesound Node 2 | Sony HW40ES |
Desktop: Dynaudio BM5 mkIII | Rythmik L22 | Apogee Quartet | 27" iMac|
Bedroom: B&W 685 S2 | Rythmik LVX12 | Marantz NR1606 | Emotiva XPA-200 Gen 2 | Samsung UN50JU6500 |

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post #25931 of 30786 Old 09-06-2016, 08:27 PM
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Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
Sterling Sound owns F15s and F15HPs, no F25s. Omega Mastering in Houston has F25s. Texas Tech University has a pair of F15HPs in their recording studio. We have also some Film Music Studios in LA with pairs of FV15HPs. One of those is Chris Fogel @ Hyperion Studios. Some movies that Chris has mixed using our FV15HPs as reference monitors are Creed, Maze Runner: The Scorch Trials, Spy, Ghostbusters, Money Monster, Zoolander 2, The Fifth Wave, and so on....

http://www.chrisfogel.com/about.html
Thanks for the correction/clarification/information!!!

I confused/combined Sterling Sound and Omega Mastering.

Enrico, do you care to comment on ported vs sealed for MUSIC ONLY? Would you ever recommend a FV15HP over a F25 for MUSIC ONLY? In a shootout vs a Seaton Submersive, JTR S1, and PSA S3600i would you send a FVxxHP or F25? I assume servo cannot makeup for the characteristics of ported designs otherwise why not make all you designs ported, right?

The comparisons I have read on equal grounds, Rythmik has been preferred sealed vs sealed. I have yet to read a comparison where a Rythmik ported has outperformed a competitive sealed offering solely for music.

Last edited by Marc Alexander; 09-06-2016 at 08:30 PM.
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post #25932 of 30786 Old 09-06-2016, 08:43 PM
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the 15hp is better than my hgs 12, but its 4x the size and in my room only about 8 db louder which is alot I know. all unscientific of course. just my 2 cents.

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post #25933 of 30786 Old 09-07-2016, 06:14 AM
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I do recommend FV15HP for Music only systems very often (depending mostly on room size and listening habits). Customers who play music loud, which is not normal/standard in the audiophile world, with large rooms (more than 5000 cu ft) and sit at more than 12 ft from speakers/subwoofers will benefit of a ported subwoofer. Customers with high efficiency speakers will benefit of the extra output of the FV15HP as well. Also the F25 is huge, not all customers can handle a 160 lb subwoofer around the room. Most of the time I try to convince customers to get a pair of F15HPs or E15HPs instead of a single F25. If the customer have no restrictions in size, likes to play loud and do more than 70% music then a pair of F25s would be always my recommendation. There is no magic rules here, you have to listen to the customer. Ask everything and let the customer talk... the more they share the easier to recommend something that will suite their needs. I have a customer who is the most happy customer I ever had. His name is Terry. His room is about 2400 cu ft and he got a L12 to pair with his Dahlqvist DQ10 speakers. I have customers with a pair of FV15HPs in rooms smaller than that and they are not satisfied yet, they want more and more.

PS: I would send the F25 to the shootout, of course!!!
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Media Room: Ascend Acoustics Sierra Towers w/ RAAL, Horizon w/ RAAL, Sierra 2s & Lunas | Rythmik F12SE (x2) | Emotiva XMC-1 | Emotiva XPA-3 & XPA-200 | Oppo 105D | Bluesound Node 2 | Sony HW40ES |
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For the record - my FV15HP sounds great playing music (though I have no sealed equivalent to compare it to), and I currently have We We're Soldiers playing. I never thought this movie had a particularly good soundtrack (pre Audio setup), but it is freakin' kicking butt right now
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post #25935 of 30786 Old 09-07-2016, 06:31 AM
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For the record - my FV15HP sounds great playing music (though I have no sealed equivalent to compare it to), and I currently have We We're Soldiers playing. I never thought this movie had a particularly good soundtrack (pre Audio setup), but it is freakin' kicking butt right now
Mel Gibson?
Great movie.
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post #25936 of 30786 Old 09-07-2016, 06:35 AM
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Mel Gibson?
Great movie.
Yeah I saw it when I was a bit younger, but never really grasped it completely until now. Great movie, but horribly sad content.
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horribly sad content.
War always is.
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post #25938 of 30786 Old 09-07-2016, 06:44 AM
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Originally Posted by tvuong View Post
^^ most definitely but it also depends on how big your room is.
It is since the living room opens up to the rest of the house.

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Originally Posted by torii View Post
port chuffing at 115db? thats odd imo. I think the sub can play louder, maybe you are trying for high spl at too low a frequency??
Quote:
Originally Posted by tvuong View Post
Yes, most definitely caused by low frequency (16hz or so and below) at reference level.
Yeah, The only movie I've really had chuffing is from the opening of Edge of tomorrow lol. I used it so I could see at what point I get chuffing. It starts right about -5 which is still really loud but I want to be able to crank it to reference. Kind of hard to show off when your sub sounds like its coughing lol.

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Yes...for most normal sized rooms dual FV15HP's would handle about anything you throw at them in 1 port.
That's my hope. I want the extra extension and be able to play at reference level without distortion or chffing
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post #25939 of 30786 Old 09-07-2016, 07:32 AM
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Ported v sealed

My speakers have 2 10" drivers per side in a sealed box, self powered by a Hypex 400 W amp, they operate from 100 Hz down to about the middle 30s flat and roll off. The speakers are 93 dB sensitive in an open 3,000 ft/2 room. I want to augment from about 40Hz down, would the ported/sealed sound signature be an important consideration since I'll only use the bottom octave?

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post #25940 of 30786 Old 09-07-2016, 07:38 AM
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Hey guys, first time poster here that could use advice on which Rythmik subs to get. My room should be ready in about a month and here are the highlights:


- 2500 cu feet (approximate)
- Completely sealed room, mostly 12x21 with a weird shape that makes the back larger, back 6.5' of room is a permanent riser up 10"
- Due to layout issues, subs will need to flank 2nd row of seats near back wall. Can't put any up front as 150" AT screen takes up almost entire front wall, and can't move AT screen closer to listening position because of a door (LCR speakers are less than 6" deep, AT screen is hung 8" off wall)
- I'm convinced I want two subs to smooth the levels across seating positions, minimize nulls, etc.
- MLP is front row, so front of subs will be ~4 feet behind the MLP. One sub will basically be in a corner.
- Due to wife and kid sensitivities, closest I'll ever get to reference levels is probably -5db
- That said, I do like to slightly overemphasize the bass, maybe +3db hot.
- 90% movies / TV / video games, 10% music. I'm the only male in the house so action movies will be the outlier, not the norm. I do want the annual Star Wars and LOTR marathons to be fun and impactful though.


I'm convinced (thanks largely to these forums) that I definitely want Rythmik subs, but I don't want to buy more sub than I'll ever use in that room. Money is not really an issue, it's more about value for money spent (I heavily scrutinize all purchases). I love deep, powerful bass but I love my family more, don't want to have them screaming at me to turn it down, which I could see happening if I spend $3-4k on subs but never get to turn them up. One more thing... I live in Texas so I'll be buying through Ascend Acoustics (if you know what I mean), and they don't appear to sell all Rythmik subs so that limits my options somewhat. With all that said, I'm primarily debating the following options:


- 2x LVX15
- 2x L22
- 2x LVR12


Will two LVX15's be too much for my room? Not enough? Would two L22's be more "musical" e.g. responsive? Would I be satisfied with two LVR12's and an extra $800 in my pocket? Any other suggestions? Thanks in advance!!!
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post #25941 of 30786 Old 09-07-2016, 07:44 AM
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I have a f12 and, lvr12, and two FV15HP. It's very hard to tell them appart. But I can tell them apart from the old sony htib sub I had and the one polk 660.
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post #25942 of 30786 Old 09-07-2016, 07:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klh007 View Post
My speakers have 2 10" drivers per side in a sealed box, self powered by a Hypex 400 W amp, they operate from 100 Hz down to about the middle 30s flat and roll off. The speakers are 93 dB sensitive in an open 3,000 ft/2 room. I want to augment from about 40Hz down, would the ported/sealed sound signature be an important consideration since I'll only use the bottom octave?
What are your room dimensions? Is it a sealed room or open to other rooms?
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post #25943 of 30786 Old 09-07-2016, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by filter_sweep View Post
hey guys, first time poster here that could use advice on which rythmik.
- 2x lvx15
- 2x l22
- 2x lvr12
2 fvx15

Last edited by Bond 007; 09-07-2016 at 09:33 AM.
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What are your room dimensions? Is it a sealed room or open to other rooms?
10x 12, into a 10 x 29, open to upstairs.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by filter_sweep View Post
Hey guys, first time poster here that could use advice on which Rythmik subs to get. My room should be ready in about a month and here are the highlights:


- 2500 cu feet (approximate)
- Completely sealed room, mostly 12x21 with a weird shape that makes the back larger, back 6.5' of room is a permanent riser up 10"
- Due to layout issues, subs will need to flank 2nd row of seats near back wall. Can't put any up front as 150" AT screen takes up almost entire front wall, and can't move AT screen closer to listening position because of a door (LCR speakers are less than 6" deep, AT screen is hung 8" off wall)
- I'm convinced I want two subs to smooth the levels across seating positions, minimize nulls, etc.
- MLP is front row, so front of subs will be ~4 feet behind the MLP. One sub will basically be in a corner.
- Due to wife and kid sensitivities, closest I'll ever get to reference levels is probably -5db
- That said, I do like to slightly overemphasize the bass, maybe +3db hot.
- 90% movies / TV / video games, 10% music. I'm the only male in the house so action movies will be the outlier, not the norm. I do want the annual Star Wars and LOTR marathons to be fun and impactful though.


I'm convinced (thanks largely to these forums) that I definitely want Rythmik subs, but I don't want to buy more sub than I'll ever use in that room. Money is not really an issue, it's more about value for money spent (I heavily scrutinize all purchases). I love deep, powerful bass but I love my family more, don't want to have them screaming at me to turn it down, which I could see happening if I spend $3-4k on subs but never get to turn them up. One more thing... I live in Texas so I'll be buying through Ascend Acoustics (if you know what I mean), and they don't appear to sell all Rythmik subs so that limits my options somewhat. With all that said, I'm primarily debating the following options:


- 2x LVX15
- 2x L22
- 2x LVR12


Will two LVX15's be too much for my room? Not enough? Would two L22's be more "musical" e.g. responsive? Would I be satisfied with two LVR12's and an extra $800 in my pocket? Any other suggestions? Thanks in advance!!!
LVX15 does not exist. Now, the FVX15 is the right model and a pair of those would be my recommendation



Enrico Castagnetti @ Rythmik Audio
Media Room: Ascend Acoustics Sierra Towers w/ RAAL, Horizon w/ RAAL, Sierra 2s & Lunas | Rythmik F12SE (x2) | Emotiva XMC-1 | Emotiva XPA-3 & XPA-200 | Oppo 105D | Bluesound Node 2 | Sony HW40ES |
Desktop: Dynaudio BM5 mkIII | Rythmik L22 | Apogee Quartet | 27" iMac|
Bedroom: B&W 685 S2 | Rythmik LVX12 | Marantz NR1606 | Emotiva XPA-200 Gen 2 | Samsung UN50JU6500 |
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post #25946 of 30786 Old 09-07-2016, 09:32 AM
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Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
LVX15 does not exist. Now, the FVX15 is the right model and a pair of those would be my recommendation

LOL, typed that up too fast, I meant FVX15. Thanks for the input! I assumed that's what I needed but I've been having doubts and wondering if it would overpower my room.
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post #25947 of 30786 Old 09-07-2016, 09:42 AM
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Originally Posted by filter_sweep View Post
LOL, typed that up too fast, I meant FVX15. Thanks for the input! I assumed that's what I needed but I've been having doubts and wondering if it would overpower my room.
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post #25948 of 30786 Old 09-07-2016, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by klh007 View Post
10x 12, into a 10 x 29, open to upstairs.
I would go ported. What's your budget? How flexible are your placement options?
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post #25949 of 30786 Old 09-07-2016, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
Thanks for the correction/clarification/information!!!

I confused/combined Sterling Sound and Omega Mastering.

Enrico, do you care to comment on ported vs sealed for MUSIC ONLY? Would you ever recommend a FV15HP over a F25 for MUSIC ONLY? In a shootout vs a Seaton Submersive, JTR S1, and PSA S3600i would you send a FVxxHP or F25? I assume servo cannot makeup for the characteristics of ported designs otherwise why not make all you designs ported, right?

The comparisons I have read on equal grounds, Rythmik has been preferred sealed vs sealed. I have yet to read a comparison where a Rythmik ported has outperformed a competitive sealed offering solely for music.
In a music only application, its not that sealed is superior to ported, its just that there is no reason for the added size and cost of ported. Why? Because the benefit of ported is a drastic increase in output and efficiency around port tune, usually somewhere around or just below 20 Hz. This is meaningless for music, since the vast majority of content for music is 40Hz plus, but very beneficial for movies. The myth of ported being superior to sealed has been disproven so many countless times that it is hard to believe some still believe it. Now it is true that ported subs will usually experience more group delay around port tune, and that group delay has an affect on sound quality. Again though, this is down near or below 20 Hz, so irrelevant for music.

Now these are generalities. It does not mean that a $200 Polk sub with a 40 Hz port tune, high distortion, a bloated frequency response, and plenty of ringing/group delay in the audible music frequency range, will sound as good as a well designed sealed sub such as Rythmik.

Basically, if someone asks "hey, I want a sub for music only to put in my living room", sealed would generally get recommended. Not because sealed is inherently superior, but simply because it is the proper alignment since there is no need for the added size and cost of ported. Ported are generally superior for dual purpose movie/music subs as long there is not a strict size requirement since they are, in general, superior for movies and equivalent if not superior for music. As Enrico stated, ported can sometimes have an advantage for music even over equivalent quality sealed subs. The added cabinet size often allows the ported sub to maintain an output advantage well above port tune, and if dubstep type music is played, the ported subs will play it louder with lower distortion especially in a big room.

Also, keep in mind that in subjective(non fact based) reviews, it is not possible for humans to keep their bias out of their perception. If they believe a certain alignment is superior, it will indeed sound better(even if someone tricks the listener by playing their same sub back to back instead of switching....when they thought their preferred choice was playing, they will choose it as superior sound even though it was never switched.)

Many blind tests have been done in which experienced listeners could not determine whether or not they are listening to ported, sealed, or horn alignments when listening to music at reasonable volumes that are within the subs' clean output capabilities. I don't mean to sound as though all subs sound the same. However, a handful of well designed high quality subs, eq'd to the same response in room, in general, listeners would not reliably be able to pick out what they believe to be their preferred sub for sound quality(if bias is removed).
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Last edited by bear123; 09-07-2016 at 11:53 AM.
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post #25950 of 30786 Old 09-07-2016, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by bear123 View Post
Also, keep in mind that in subjective(non fact based) reviews, it is not possible for humans to keep their bias out of their perception. If they believe a certain alignment is superior, it will indeed sound better(even if someone tricks the listener by playing their same sub back to back instead of switching....when they thought their preferred choice was playing, they will choose it as superior sound even though it was never switched.)

Many blind tests have been done in which experienced listeners could not determine whether or not they are listening to ported, sealed, or horn alignments when listening to music at reasonable volumes that are within the subs' clean output capabilities. I don't mean to sound as though all subs sound the same. However, a handful of well designed high quality subs, eq'd to the same response in room, in general, listeners would not reliably be able to pick out what they believe to be their preferred sub for sound quality(if bias is removed).
Links?

@JimWilson can you add any light to this subject?

I'm just having a hard time believing that the FV15HP and F25 are indistinguishable within their limits.
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