Official Rythmik Audio Subwoofer thread - Page 868 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #26011 of 26347 Old 09-12-2016, 05:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by budeliao View Post
Wondering how those of you running multiple hi-power subs and amps are dealing with power consumption in your HT rooms. I have 3 F15HPs, a 200w/ch 2 channel Adcom and now a 5 ch Outlaw Audio 5000. I have run a second 20AMP circuit dedicated for equipment. Curious as to how other are dealing with all this required HT power.

Thanks.
negative issue for me. I am using one 20a in my room and I have 2 hp subs with 11 amps running. I had an electrician come out and he monitored the load and said I am just fine...

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post #26012 of 26347 Old 09-12-2016, 06:04 AM
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Originally Posted by kyzer soze View Post
The box is massive but with a dolly and furniture sliders you should be ok.
Agreed. Unless stairs are involved or you have a back injury, it's easy enough to move them around by yourself with sliders or a dolly.
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post #26013 of 26347 Old 09-12-2016, 07:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyzer soze View Post
The box is massive but with a dolly and furniture sliders you should be ok.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcohen View Post
Agreed. Unless stairs are involved or you have a back injury, it's easy enough to move them around by yourself with sliders or a dolly.
+1

Frequently I move around some pretty big subwoofers, and with aids such as the ones mentioned above it can be done. That is provided you don't have limitations due to injury or heath, of course. But if you don't, it's probably still worth considering.

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post #26014 of 26347 Old 09-12-2016, 08:59 AM
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lacking punch

I have a 7.2.4 setup and I'm not getting enough response (at least the response I would like) from my DUAL L12's. Any idea if there are settings issues?

- I have the sub on my Marantz 7010 at -2.0dB
- the cross over on the AVR is at 80Hz
- The cable is plugged into the LFE input
- The crossover on the sub is maxed
- The LFE Slope is at 12dB
- Extension is at Low-HT
- The volume knob is directly at 12 o'clock (50%)
- my room is approx 2200 cu ft (13x7x24)

Is there any thing I should change to get more punch? Should I increase the cross over, move the volume level up? Change the LPF slope (not sure if that's correct in the LFE port)? My subs are near my large sectional is it possible they are absorbing too much of the sound?

Last edited by tjcinnamon; 09-12-2016 at 09:23 AM.
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post #26015 of 26347 Old 09-12-2016, 09:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjcinnamon View Post
I have a 7.2.4 setup and I'm not getting enough response (at least the response I would like) from my L12's. Any idea if there are settings issues?

- I have the sub on my Marantz 7010 at -2.0dB
- the cross over on the AVR is at 80Hz
- The cable is plugged into the LFE input
- The crossover on the sub is maxed
- The LFE Slope is at 12dB
- Extension is at Low-HT
- The volume knob is directly at 12 o'clock (50%)
- my room is 1260 cu ft (13x7x24)

Is there any thing I should change to get more punch? Should I increase the cross over, move the volume level up? Change the LPF slope (not sure if that's correct in the LFE port)? My subs are near my large sectional is it possible they are absorbing too much of the sound?
The first thing to check is if you are sitting in a null. Get up and walk around the room during intense bass scenes/music, is the bass much stronger in other locations around the room? If so, you need to move the sub and/or the MLP to fix the issue.
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post #26016 of 26347 Old 09-12-2016, 09:11 AM
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Also, something is not right with your room dimensions. Either one dimension is not correct or the total volume is not correct. If the dimensions are OK then your room is about 2200 cu ft and that's a large room for a single L12. A ported subwoofer like the LV12R will do better or even dual L12s. If room volume is correct (assuming one of the room dimensions is not), then follow what Alan P. is recommending.



Enrico Castagnetti @ Rythmik Audio
Media Room: Polk LSiM705s, LSiM706C, LSiM703s | Rythmik F12SE (x2) | Marantz SR7008 | Parasound Halo P5 | Emotiva XPA-3 & XPA-200 | Oppo 105D | Sony HW40ES |
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post #26017 of 26347 Old 09-12-2016, 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
Like I mentioned in another thread, as far I know, only @Cain did a direct comparison between the F25 vs S3000. He had a pair of S3000 and one F25, at the end he returned the pair of S3000s and ordered another F25 and he is running now a pair of F25s in his 2500 cu ft dedicated HT room. In Cain's words: IMO, the F25s are miles ahead on music, and very good on movies. The PSAs were more bombastic for big movies but too boomy for music in my theater.
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Did PSA have free returns on the S3000?
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Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
Yes, up until the end of June they did have free return shipping on the S3000i. The freight shipped models… S3600i, V3600i, and T18 never had free return shipping.
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I'm not saying it had an effect on this transaction but sometimes your ears could follow your wallet.

I've never heard either so I can't say for myself.
Can't speak for @Cain but if it was me, there is nothing wrong coming out and say the psa was as good but it's free to return, so I keep the Rythmik. If you read his posts in the psa thread, he had all the intention to keep the s3000i over the f25 at his early shopping stage and was going to drive to Rythmik to drop off the F25. Free shipping especially both ways has its pros and cons for business owner. The pros is that it gives folks a peace of mind so the company will sell more than its competitor who does not offer free shipping. The con is people start to abuse it and returning stuffs for no reason which is probably one of the reason psa does not offer free return anymore.
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post #26018 of 26347 Old 09-12-2016, 09:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
The first thing to check is if you are sitting in a null. Get up and walk around the room during intense bass scenes/music, is the bass much stronger in other locations around the room? If so, you need to move the sub and/or the MLP to fix the issue.
I'll look into that. But do my settings look correct?

Quote:
Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
Also, something is not right with your room dimensions. Either one dimension is not correct or the total volume is not correct. If the dimensions are OK then your room is about 2200 cu ft and that's a large room for a single L12. A ported subwoofer like the LV12R will do better or even dual L12s. If room volume is correct (assuming one of the room dimensions is not), then follow what Alan P. is recommending.
Sorry I forgot to mention I have DUAL L12s. I'll edit my comment to accomodate.
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post #26019 of 26347 Old 09-12-2016, 09:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjcinnamon View Post
I have a 7.2.4 setup and I'm not getting enough response (at least the response I would like) from my L12's. Any idea if there are settings issues?

- I have the sub on my Marantz 7010 at -2.0dB
- the cross over on the AVR is at 80Hz
- The cable is plugged into the LFE input
- The crossover on the sub is maxed
- The LFE Slope is at 12dB
- Extension is at Low-HT
- The volume knob is directly at 12 o'clock (50%)
- my room is 1260 cu ft (13x7x24)

Is there any thing I should change to get more punch? Should I increase the cross over, move the volume level up? Change the LPF slope (not sure if that's correct in the LFE port)? My subs are near my large sectional is it possible they are absorbing too much of the sound?
If I did my math right, your room has 2184 ft3, almost twice as large as you thought.
Marc Alexander likes this.

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post #26020 of 26347 Old 09-12-2016, 10:29 AM
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If I did my math right, your room has 2184 ft3, almost twice as large as you thought.
I edited that too. I typed it wrong.
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post #26021 of 26347 Old 09-12-2016, 11:00 AM
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I'm going to play with position of the subs (because MLP can't move) but are these settings correct?

- I have the sub on my Marantz 7010 at -2.0dB
- the cross over on the AVR is at 80Hz
- The cable is plugged into the LFE input
- The crossover on the sub is maxed
- The LFE Slope is at 12dB
- Extension is at Low-HT
- The volume knob is directly at 12 o'clock (50%)
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post #26022 of 26347 Old 09-12-2016, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by tjcinnamon View Post
I edited that too. I typed it wrong.
Have you ever considered doing any measurements with REW and a UMIK-1 Mic? If not, maybe just try to turn the subs' volume up. In the large room I have, I had an LV12R that I had to keep around the 3pm area to get a decent response. With the FV15HP I replaced it with, I still have it at around the 1pm mark with dual LFE inputs (+6 db gain). Might just be simple as you not having it turned up enough.

However, if you've run MCACC or Audyssey or similar and balanced the sub response out to -6db, and turned it up +3-6db hot from there, my suggestion probably won't work at all.

My Current "Living Room" Home Theater!
===========================================
Receiver:Pioneer Elite VSX-44
Fronts: B&W 684 S1 — Center: B&W CM Center S2
Surrounds: B&W 685 S1 — Subwoofer: Rhythmic FV15HP
Rear Surrounds: Polk Audio T15 — Front Heights: Polk Audio T15
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post #26023 of 26347 Old 09-12-2016, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjcinnamon View Post
I'm going to play with position of the subs (because MLP can't move) but are these settings correct?

- I have the sub on my Marantz 7010 at -2.0dB
- the cross over on the AVR is at 80Hz
- The cable is plugged into the LFE input
- The crossover on the sub is maxed
- The LFE Slope is at 12dB
- Extension is at Low-HT
- The volume knob is directly at 12 o'clock (50%)
With you using the LFE input the following is bypassed

- slope
- sub crossover

Also you might need to turn up the sub since its at 12 o'clock which is super low.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjcinnamon View Post
I'm going to play with position of the subs (because MLP can't move) but are these settings correct?

- I have the sub on my Marantz 7010 at -2.0dB
- the cross over on the AVR is at 80Hz
- The cable is plugged into the LFE input
- The crossover on the sub is maxed
- The LFE Slope is at 12dB
- Extension is at Low-HT
- The volume knob is directly at 12 o'clock (50%)

Sent from my LG-H901 using Tapatalk

Receiver - Sony STR-DH550
Fronts - Klipsch Reference Premiere RP-280F
Center
- Klipsch Reference Premiere RP-450C
Surrounds - Don't ask lol
Sub - Rythmik FV15HP
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post #26024 of 26347 Old 09-12-2016, 11:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjcinnamon View Post
I'm going to play with position of the subs (because MLP can't move) but are these settings correct?

- I have the sub on my Marantz 7010 at -2.0dB
- the cross over on the AVR is at 80Hz
- The cable is plugged into the LFE input
- The crossover on the sub is maxed
- The LFE Slope is at 12dB
- Extension is at Low-HT
- The volume knob is directly at 12 o'clock (50%)
Download the "Dialing in Rythmik Sub Guide" from the link here and run through it. It was very helpful for me!

You want to EQ the subs to -6, then bump them up through your AVR to taste. 80Hz Xover is fine 99% of the time. LFE input is fine if you can EQ to -6 without turning subs' volume knob up too high. If you do have to do that, then you may want to use Line In. All other settings look good (except the Subs' volume knob probably has to be higher). If the 7010 is auto EQ the sub to -2db, you want to turn up the sub volume knob until it sets it at -6db - that is the best suggestion (from the guide above). Then you can even run it hotter through the AVR from there.

My Current "Living Room" Home Theater!
===========================================
Receiver:Pioneer Elite VSX-44
Fronts: B&W 684 S1 — Center: B&W CM Center S2
Surrounds: B&W 685 S1 — Subwoofer: Rhythmic FV15HP
Rear Surrounds: Polk Audio T15 — Front Heights: Polk Audio T15
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post #26025 of 26347 Old 09-12-2016, 11:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjcinnamon View Post
I'm going to play with position of the subs (because MLP can't move) but are these settings correct?

- I have the sub on my Marantz 7010 at -2.0dB
- the cross over on the AVR is at 80Hz
- The cable is plugged into the LFE input
- The crossover on the sub is maxed
- The LFE Slope is at 12dB
- Extension is at Low-HT
- The volume knob is directly at 12 o'clock (50%)
Those settings look correct to me. But even having Audyssey XT32 + SubEQ HT is not a guaranty that you won't have to deal with room modes and even cancellation between subwoofers. I would recommend to change the input on both subwoofers to LINE IN so you can fine tune delay/phase in case you have cancelation between subwoofers. I had cancelation between subwoofers at the crossover point and got it fixed changing the delay/phase in one of my F12SEs. I have a Marantz SR7008 with Audyssey XT32 + SubEQ HT.



Enrico Castagnetti @ Rythmik Audio
Media Room: Polk LSiM705s, LSiM706C, LSiM703s | Rythmik F12SE (x2) | Marantz SR7008 | Parasound Halo P5 | Emotiva XPA-3 & XPA-200 | Oppo 105D | Sony HW40ES |
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post #26026 of 26347 Old 09-12-2016, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by MrGrey View Post
With you using the LFE input the following is bypassed

- slope
- sub crossover

Also you might need to turn up the sub since its at 12 o'clock which is super low.
So 12 vs 24 doesn't matter. Is LFE appropriate for dual subs?

Also, the AVR manual suggested it the 12 o clock position. I'm happy to move it. Would 3 o'clock be okay? Or how much is too much?
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post #26027 of 26347 Old 09-12-2016, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by citsur86 View Post
Download the "Dialing in Rythmik Sub Guide" from the link here and run through it. It was very helpful for me!

You want to EQ the subs to -6, then bump them up through your AVR to taste. 80Hz Xover is fine 99% of the time. LFE input is fine if you can EQ to -6 without turning subs' volume knob up too high. If you do have to do that, then you may want to use Line In. All other settings look good (except the Subs' volume knob probably has to be higher). If the 7010 is auto EQ the sub to -2db, you want to turn up the sub volume knob until it sets it at -6db - that is the best suggestion (from the guide above). Then you can even run it hotter through the AVR from there.
Why is this the case:

"Select the Subwoofer Mode, such that the bass is only played back from subwoofer (e.g. LFE only mode), not“subwoofer + front speakers” or LFE+Mains or "Double Bass"

The reason I ask is because my HTPC won't play stuff through the sub without LFE+Main on my Marantz 7010
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post #26028 of 26347 Old 09-12-2016, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by tjcinnamon View Post
Why is this the case:

"Select the Subwoofer Mode, such that the bass is only played back from subwoofer (e.g. LFE only mode), not“subwoofer + front speakers” or LFE+Mains or "Double Bass"

The reason I ask is because my HTPC won't play stuff through the sub without LFE+Main on my Marantz 7010
I believe this setting on an AVR makes the speakers full range, while also sending anything below the crossover come out of the subwoofer (as well as the normal LFE track as normal). Do you know why your HTPC will not play anything through the sub without LFE+Main selected? Have you played with the settings on the PC? Maybe it's not setup for the .1 channel?

Just had a thought - do you have all your other speakers set to small?

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===========================================
Receiver:Pioneer Elite VSX-44
Fronts: B&W 684 S1 — Center: B&W CM Center S2
Surrounds: B&W 685 S1 — Subwoofer: Rhythmic FV15HP
Rear Surrounds: Polk Audio T15 — Front Heights: Polk Audio T15
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post #26029 of 26347 Old 09-12-2016, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by tjcinnamon View Post
So 12 vs 24 doesn't matter. Is LFE appropriate for dual subs?

Also, the AVR manual suggested it the 12 o clock position. I'm happy to move it. Would 3 o'clock be okay? Or how much is too much?
Dialing-in Rythmik Subwoofers.pdf

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/attach...5&d=1467759328






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Fronts - Klipsch Reference Premiere RP-280F
Center
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Surrounds - Don't ask lol
Sub - Rythmik FV15HP

Last edited by MrGrey; 09-12-2016 at 11:57 AM.
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post #26030 of 26347 Old 09-12-2016, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by tjcinnamon View Post
Why is this the case:

"Select the Subwoofer Mode, such that the bass is only played back from subwoofer (e.g. LFE only mode), not“subwoofer + front speakers” or LFE+Mains or "Double Bass"

The reason I ask is because my HTPC won't play stuff through the sub without LFE+Main on my Marantz 7010
All speakers must be set to "Small".
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post #26031 of 26347 Old 09-12-2016, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by MrGrey View Post
So 2 channel inputs is 2 subs? Or is 2 channel inputs literally using R and L on the same sub (not sure why that would be the case)
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post #26032 of 26347 Old 09-12-2016, 12:19 PM
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So 2 channel inputs is 2 subs? Or is 2 channel inputs literally using R and L on the same sub (not sure why that would be the case)
No 2ch has nothing to do with that. 2ch Is LR+Sub but that's for people who do music or for whatever reason they may want to use that. Use that link and it will guide you all the way thought the process.

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post #26033 of 26347 Old 09-12-2016, 12:25 PM
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May have to use line in for one of the subs if the AVR does not set delay independently for the two subs, and adjust the phase appropriately.

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #26034 of 26347 Old 09-12-2016, 12:37 PM
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Also, the AVR manual suggested it the 12 o clock position. I'm happy to move it. Would 3 o'clock be okay? Or how much is too much?
Only you can answer those questions really. The dials are there to allow adjustments relative to your own circumstance and proclivities. There is no standard.

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post #26035 of 26347 Old 09-12-2016, 02:05 PM
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Only you can answer those questions really. The dials are there to allow adjustments relative to your own circumstance and proclivities. There is no standard.
I just want to make sure I don't damage the sub
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post #26036 of 26347 Old 09-12-2016, 02:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjcinnamon View Post
I'm going to play with position of the subs (because MLP can't move) but are these settings correct?

- I have the sub on my Marantz 7010 at -2.0dB
- the cross over on the AVR is at 80Hz
- The cable is plugged into the LFE input
- The crossover on the sub is maxed
- The LFE Slope is at 12dB
- Extension is at Low-HT
- The volume knob is directly at 12 o'clock (50%)
Do your other speakers play down to 80hz? If not, you've got a hole in freq response that could explain some of the lack of punch.

I run dual L12s in a similar sized space. Both are in the 'best' places they can reasonably go in my room. One up front near LCR and one near-field to MLP, both in center of long wall(s). I gain matched them first at 75db close mic'd. Using line-in for both, I set the far sub phase to 0, and dialed in the phase on the near-field sub to phase/time align them for smoothest frequency response. Then I ran my room correction software to integrate with other speakers, setting the global distance/phase delay for highest output. They definitely have enough power to play at levels beyond what I care to subject myself. I usually listen/watch around -20db for 'movie night' and they show no signs of running out of headroom.

You won't hurt anything by turning up the gain on both (within reason) to see if you prefer them a bit hotter than they are running now.
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post #26037 of 26347 Old 09-12-2016, 03:22 PM
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Do your other speakers play down to 80hz? If not, you've got a hole in freq response that could explain some of the lack of punch.

I run dual L12s in a similar sized space. Both are in the 'best' places they can reasonably go in my room. One up front near LCR and one near-field to MLP, both in center of long wall(s). I gain matched them first at 75db close mic'd. Using line-in for both, I set the far sub phase to 0, and dialed in the phase on the near-field sub to phase/time align them for smoothest frequency response. Then I ran my room correction software to integrate with other speakers, setting the global distance/phase delay for highest output. They definitely have enough power to play at levels beyond what I care to subject myself. I usually listen/watch around -20db for 'movie night' and they show no signs of running out of headroom.

You won't hurt anything by turning up the gain on both (within reason) to see if you prefer them a bit hotter than they are running now.
Yes, my fronts go down to 44Hz with a 34Hz with a low frequency extension. I have add them in my signature (I finally have some gear that warrants a signature ).

Marantz 7010
2 x Paradigm Prestige 75F's
1 x Paradigm Prestige 45C
8 x Paradigm CI Pro P65-R's
Sub 2 x Rythmik L12's
TV: ????UNKNOWN????
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post #26038 of 26347 Old 09-12-2016, 04:31 PM
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bummer. too bad i have no friends or anyone to help. maybe it's best to get something shipped then instead of going through craigslist or other local sources.
I have sold several heavy things on CL and have always helped the purchaser get said item into the vehicle. Go for it! As others have said there are many ways you can move it around dolly is just one of them.

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Now a Certified Carpet Counselor and Plumbing Counselor (Self given titles - pay no attention).
Enjoying my "almost done" theater.
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post #26039 of 26347 Old 09-12-2016, 04:40 PM
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The reason I ask is because my HTPC won't play stuff through the sub without LFE+Main on my Marantz 7010
What playback software do you use? I use an htpc as source and it plays sound thru sub with just LFE selected on my Denon.
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post #26040 of 26347 Old 09-12-2016, 05:34 PM
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What playback software do you use? I use an htpc as source and it plays sound thru sub with just LFE selected on my Denon.
I was playing the Spotify app. I might have had my fronts set to Large at that point. I'm going to experiment again and I'll report back my findings
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