Official Rythmik Audio Subwoofer thread - Page 879 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #26341 of 26367 Old Yesterday, 03:44 PM
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Official Rythmik Audio Subwoofer thread

I think that's all temporary. The cheaper hard drive space becomes, the less of a consideration it will be. My guess is inside 10 years, digital tracks will be fully uncompressed and ubiquitously so. There's already products like the PonoPlayer that play uncompressed music flac files. My hope is that as time goes by and people are able to easily play fully uncompressed music, sound technicians will mix to that standard.

My Current "Living Room" Home Theater!
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Fronts: B&W 684 S1 — Center: B&W CM Center S2
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post #26342 of 26367 Old Yesterday, 03:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by citsur86 View Post
I think that's all temporary. The cheaper hard drive space becomes, the less of a consideration it will be. My guess is inside 10 years, digital tracks will be fully uncompressed and ubiquitously so. There's already products like the PonoPlayer that play uncompressed music flac files. My hope is that as time goes by and people are able to easily play fully uncompressed music, sound technicians will mix to that standard.
Mike, we are talking about Dynamic range compression as an audio signal processing operation, not audio file compression like MP3 But either way MP3 or any compressed audio file (in terms of data) sucks!!!
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post #26343 of 26367 Old Yesterday, 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted by citsur86 View Post
I think that's all temporary. The cheaper hard drive space becomes, the less of a consideration it will be. My guess is inside 10 years, digital tracks will be fully uncompressed and ubiquitously so. There's already products like the PonoPlayer that play uncompressed music flac files. My hope is that as time goes by and people are able to easily play fully uncompressed music, sound technicians will mix to that standard.
Two completely different things Mike.

Pretty good explanation here:

http://dynamicrangeday.co.uk/about/
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post #26344 of 26367 Old Yesterday, 04:01 PM
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Ah thanks for clearing that up. I misunderstood.


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My Current "Living Room" Home Theater!
===========================================
Receiver:Pioneer Elite VSX-44
Fronts: B&W 684 S1 — Center: B&W CM Center S2
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post #26345 of 26367 Old Yesterday, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
Two completely different things Mike.



Pretty good explanation here:



http://dynamicrangeday.co.uk/about/


That video did a great job explaining what you're talking about. I never even knew about this!

My Current "Living Room" Home Theater!
===========================================
Receiver:Pioneer Elite VSX-44
Fronts: B&W 684 S1 — Center: B&W CM Center S2
Surrounds: B&W 685 S1 — Subwoofer: Rhythmic FV15HP
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post #26346 of 26367 Old Yesterday, 04:40 PM
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This is a great site to see the DR of albums.

http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/li...ADELE&album=25

Most people look at this and say Vinly has better DR but it's all in the master. If the studio wanted to, all CD could have huge DR.
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post #26347 of 26367 Old Yesterday, 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Blacklightning View Post
This is a great site to see the DR of albums.

http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/li...ADELE&album=25

Most people look at this and say Vinly has better DR but it's all in the master. If the studio wanted to, all CD could have huge DR.
Love that website!. Also completely true, it blows my mind why they would willingly destroy a tracks DR, it seems like a lazy thing to do with so much technology right there in front of them that is designed for incredible audio quality.

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post #26348 of 26367 Old Yesterday, 06:53 PM
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post #26349 of 26367 Old Today, 06:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrGrey View Post
Love that website!. Also completely true, it blows my mind why they would willingly destroy a tracks DR, it seems like a lazy thing to do with so much technology right there in front of them that is designed for incredible audio quality.

Sent from my LG-H901 using Tapatalk
In the 60's, mastering for pop music mostly aimed at making it sound good on car and tabletop radios and portable record players. Nowadays it's to make it sound good through earbuds and portable Bluetooth speakers. In both cases you're trying to optimize for a system with not a lot of output power, so compressing gets you a louder perceived sound.

Also sets the table for the later 'special edition' releases.
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post #26350 of 26367 Old Today, 06:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ergopower View Post
In the 60's, mastering for pop music mostly aimed at making it sound good on car and tabletop radios and portable record players. Nowadays it's to make it sound good through earbuds and portable Bluetooth speakers. In both cases you're trying to optimize for a system with not a lot of output power, so compressing gets you a louder perceived sound.

Also sets the table for the later 'special edition' releases.
Kind of has me thinking....Movies are produced and edited both in picture and sound for DVD and Bluray (and now 4K as well). Why isn't music this way? Why was there never anyone who thought to produce a track for different playback methods like cars/earbuds/home audio systems/etc?

My Current "Living Room" Home Theater!
===========================================
Receiver:Pioneer Elite VSX-44
Fronts: B&W 684 S1 — Center: B&W CM Center S2
Surrounds: B&W 685 S1 — Subwoofer: Rhythmic FV15HP
Rear Surrounds: Polk Audio T15 — Front Heights: Polk Audio T15
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post #26351 of 26367 Old Today, 07:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by citsur86 View Post
Kind of has me thinking....Movies are produced and edited both in picture and sound for DVD and Bluray (and now 4K as well). Why isn't music this way? Why was there never anyone who thought to produce a track for different playback methods like cars/earbuds/home audio systems/etc?
Unless there's is money in it; it won't happen. Just like how some studios are keeping ATMOS off their standard blu-ray but having it on their 4K UHD blu-ray dics for no other reason than to make more cash by pushing user's to the most expensive options.

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post #26352 of 26367 Old Today, 07:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by citsur86 View Post
Kind of has me thinking....Movies are produced and edited both in picture and sound for DVD and Bluray (and now 4K as well). Why isn't music this way? Why was there never anyone who thought to produce a track for different playback methods like cars/earbuds/home audio systems/etc?
Well, there's SACD, DVD-A and Blu Ray Audio discs that are theoretically mixed to a higher standard than standard Redbook CD...as with everything though, the quality of the master can vary with these formats as well.
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post #26353 of 26367 Old Today, 07:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
Well, there's SACD, DVD-A and Blu Ray Audio discs that are theoretically mixed to a higher standard than standard Redbook CD...as with everything though, the quality of the master can vary with these formats as well.
Yeah that's true - but aren't the Blueray Audio discs normally like concerts and things like that? Or are there actually Audio only blurays? Never heard of them if so. I do find that Tidal High Fidelity music sounds noticeably better on my system, but not too much in my bluetooth headphones - which makes sense for obvious reasons.

My Current "Living Room" Home Theater!
===========================================
Receiver:Pioneer Elite VSX-44
Fronts: B&W 684 S1 — Center: B&W CM Center S2
Surrounds: B&W 685 S1 — Subwoofer: Rhythmic FV15HP
Rear Surrounds: Polk Audio T15 — Front Heights: Polk Audio T15
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post #26354 of 26367 Old Today, 07:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrGrey View Post
Unless there's is money in it; it won't happen. Just like how some studios are keeping ATMOS off their standard blu-ray but having it on their 4K UHD blu-ray dics for no other reason than to make more cash by pushing user's to the most expensive options.

Sent from my LG-H901 using Tapatalk


Yeah so jumping to ATMOS becomes even more expensive because not only do I need the ATMOS speakers/capable receiver, now I need a 4K TV/projector as well. It's prohibitive to me because of this because while I could swing for one, I can't for both at once.

My Current "Living Room" Home Theater!
===========================================
Receiver:Pioneer Elite VSX-44
Fronts: B&W 684 S1 — Center: B&W CM Center S2
Surrounds: B&W 685 S1 — Subwoofer: Rhythmic FV15HP
Rear Surrounds: Polk Audio T15 — Front Heights: Polk Audio T15
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post #26355 of 26367 Old Today, 08:02 AM
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Originally Posted by citsur86 View Post
Yeah so jumping to ATMOS becomes even more expensive because not only do I need the ATMOS speakers/capable receiver, now I need a 4K TV/projector as well. It's prohibitive to me because of this because while I could swing for one, I can't for both at once.
Yeah I refuse to be forced, it's not like these films are a masterpiece at all so I'll wait or never upgraded. for people who already want to go 4K it's gonna be expensive since you are forced to completely upgrade everything because of some crappy protection that does not even help but hurts the legit consumers😂😂.

Like I said it's all for money, worthless out the gate before hardware was even widely out there. Better to wait until price settles and I'm interested in Dolby version of HDR so I want to see where that goes.

https://torrentfreak.com/pirates-can...amazon-151127/

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Receiver - Sony STR-DH550
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Center
- Klipsch Reference Premiere RP-450C
Surrounds - Don't ask lol
Sub - Rythmik FV15HP
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post #26356 of 26367 Old Today, 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted by citsur86 View Post
Yeah that's true - but aren't the Blueray Audio discs normally like concerts and things like that? Or are there actually Audio only blurays? Never heard of them if so. I do find that Tidal High Fidelity music sounds noticeably better on my system, but not too much in my bluetooth headphones - which makes sense for obvious reasons.
There are quite a few audio only BR discs.

There's a whole section of the forum dedicated to this kind of stuff:

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/112-su...music-formats/

I just recently got into the multi-channel music thing myself and have a few from Pink Floyd and Roger Waters. DSOTM kind of blew my mind on multi-channel SACD...I've heard that album hundreds of times, but I was hearing things I'd never heard before.
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post #26357 of 26367 Old Today, 09:28 AM
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Originally Posted by citsur86 View Post
Yeah that's true - but aren't the Blu-ray Audio discs normally like concerts and things like that? Or are there actually Audio only Blu-rays?
Audio only Blu-ray discs? Sure. Norway's L2 label does this all the time (as do others, L2 is just the first label that came to mind). For example, their recording(s) of Magnificat. Note that it has stereo, 5.1, and 9.1 on the Blu-ray.

I actually have these discs, and even with my decent AVR (a Denon X4000), the SACD sounds better. There's something going on with the Denon's decode, I don't know what. But the SACD through the same disc player and same AVR sounds better than the Blu-ray. Hmmm.....
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Wow! I guess I was never really thinking along those lines - never realized there were blueray audio discs. Definitely going to have to go looking for some of my favs. Thanks everyone!

My Current "Living Room" Home Theater!
===========================================
Receiver:Pioneer Elite VSX-44
Fronts: B&W 684 S1 — Center: B&W CM Center S2
Surrounds: B&W 685 S1 — Subwoofer: Rhythmic FV15HP
Rear Surrounds: Polk Audio T15 — Front Heights: Polk Audio T15
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post #26359 of 26367 Old Today, 10:05 AM
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I bought the L22 and have had it for about 2-3 weeks now. Before that, I had an HSU VF2 MK4 (ported, downward firing sub) for the last 3-4 years.

I'm about 70 percent music, 30 percent movies.

Set up the L22 in my new mancave- carpet floor, plaster walls- about 17 feet wide and 40 feet long. (TV and speakers are on the 17 foot wall)

The HSU was a bad match for my usage, which was my fault for not knowing enough about ported vs sealed. It had good output, but was terrible for music. It was also always noticeable in movies and music, no matter where i located it- very localized. It also sounded really loose, lacking precision.

I set up the L22 on the front stage, ran dirac and was underwhelmed. It had a bad dip around 70hz and a smaller one at 80hz that eq couldn't fill. Did the sub crawl with only the bass playing using Incubus "Are You In"'s bass line and placed it on the long sidewall. MUCH better. Re eq'd it and was very happy.

Even with the room size, I get good output and a flat response with a little eq. More impressively, I never think about the sub. It nearly disappears and the bass seems to come from my speakers (something I've tried to accompish with the HSU for a long time). It's precise and fast. I haven't heard other rythmik products, so I can't compare this to the ported or the bigger sealed options, but the L22 on sale (plus free shipping) was a steal. It may lack the bass output of the other models and even my old sub, but it gives everything a full and realistic sounds.

Great job rythmik!
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Originally Posted by Bglav View Post
I bought the L22 and have had it for about 2-3 weeks now. Before that, I had an HSU VF2 MK4 (ported, downward firing sub) for the last 3-4 years.

I'm about 70 percent music, 30 percent movies.

Set up the L22 in my new mancave- carpet floor, plaster walls- about 17 feet wide and 40 feet long. (TV and speakers are on the 17 foot wall)

The HSU was a bad match for my usage, which was my fault for not knowing enough about ported vs sealed. It had good output, but was terrible for music. It was also always noticeable in movies and music, no matter where i located it- very localized. It also sounded really loose, lacking precision.

I set up the L22 on the front stage, ran dirac and was underwhelmed. It had a bad dip around 70hz and a smaller one at 80hz that eq couldn't fill. Did the sub crawl with only the bass playing using Incubus "Are You In"'s bass line and placed it on the long sidewall. MUCH better. Re eq'd it and was very happy.

Even with the room size, I get good output and a flat response with a little eq. More impressively, I never think about the sub. It nearly disappears and the bass seems to come from my speakers (something I've tried to accompish with the HSU for a long time). It's precise and fast. I haven't heard other rythmik products, so I can't compare this to the ported or the bigger sealed options, but the L22 on sale (plus free shipping) was a steal. It may lack the bass output of the other models and even my old sub, but it gives everything a full and realistic sounds.

Great job rythmik!
Nice review! FYI I had to move my Rythmik FV15HP quite a few times before I got it into a good spot for my room. Now I'm extremely happy and it shines in almost every movie I play.

My Current "Living Room" Home Theater!
===========================================
Receiver:Pioneer Elite VSX-44
Fronts: B&W 684 S1 — Center: B&W CM Center S2
Surrounds: B&W 685 S1 — Subwoofer: Rhythmic FV15HP
Rear Surrounds: Polk Audio T15 — Front Heights: Polk Audio T15
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post #26361 of 26367 Old Today, 10:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by citsur86 View Post
Kind of has me thinking....Movies are produced and edited both in picture and sound for DVD and Bluray (and now 4K as well). Why isn't music this way? Why was there never anyone who thought to produce a track for different playback methods like cars/earbuds/home audio systems/etc?
Music is this way, mostly. There is the track as recorded, the track as mixed and the track as mastered. The track as mixed should be of very high quality, the mixing engineer should have aimed for the best sound on a good playback system. If recorded and mixed digitally, those tracks are typically in storage somewhere. Even when recorded and mixed on tape, a lot of these still exist. If there's a sufficient market, these can be remastered to take advantage of high-fidelity playback systems. Not to be controversial, but this is the reason to buy SACD or similar audio formats - you are hearing a well-mastered track, the formatting above 44.1KHz/16 bit is not audible.
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Originally Posted by Bglav View Post

More impressively, I never think about the sub. It nearly disappears and the bass seems to come from my speakers (something I've tried to accompish with the HSU for a long time). It's precise and fast. It may lack the bass output of the other models and even my old sub, but it gives everything a full and realistic sounds.

Great job rythmik!
Nice review. I agree with you about the sub disappears part. I noticed that when I got my first FV15hp sub (also came from the Hsu vtf2.3). Other subs might sound louder due to more distortion we hear.
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post #26363 of 26367 Old Today, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by MrGrey View Post
Love that website!. Also completely true, it blows my mind why they would willingly destroy a tracks DR, it seems like a lazy thing to do with so much technology right there in front of them that is designed for incredible audio quality.
Because starting in the 70's and 80's companies saw that a louder sound makes it sound better if you listen back to back. And so the loudness wars began. We as a whole asked for it.

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Originally Posted by ergopower View Post
In the 60's, mastering for pop music mostly aimed at making it sound good on car and tabletop radios and portable record players. Nowadays it's to make it sound good through earbuds and portable Bluetooth speakers. In both cases you're trying to optimize for a system with not a lot of output power, so compressing gets you a louder perceived sound.

Also sets the table for the later 'special edition' releases.
The big thing here is that people do not sit and Listen to music anymore so music needs to be heard against a lot of background noise. I can't listen to most of my classical stuff a round the house because the quite parts are quite, so I turn up the volume and when the loud stuff starts I need to run to turn it down. In my low noise floor music room I can leave the volume were it needs to be and enjoy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by citsur86 View Post
Kind of has me thinking....Movies are produced and edited both in picture and sound for DVD and Bluray (and now 4K as well). Why isn't music this way? Why was there never anyone who thought to produce a track for different playback methods like cars/earbuds/home audio systems/etc?
This would be good but people do not buy two versions of a CD at once the same way you will not buy a DVD and Bluray at the same time. Our choice right now is CD or vinyl. Vinyl right now has more DR because they figure you will be sitting down and enjoying the tracks (same with SACD/DVD-Audio/Blyray-Audio).
BTW the movies we watch are DR compressed also from the theater sound track a lot too. The end game for a DVD/Bluray mix is HTiB or Low end system. We are missing a lot of DR with the systems we have. I think Lion's gate is the only one that does a 2 channel low DR mix with movies meant for playback on Tv's and soundbars, there 5.1 mixes are a little more aggressive.
I'm surprise they do this as you are doubling your cost unless they are just running it through a computer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
Well, there's SACD, DVD-A and Blu Ray Audio discs that are theoretically mixed to a higher standard than standard Redbook CD...as with everything though, the quality of the master can vary with these formats as well.
I do wish SACD/DVD-A was still around (mainstream) but I do feel they focused too much on the multi channel part of it and I would of liked it if they went crazy with the DR on the 2 channel track.


I have One classical SACD that has huge DR in the order of 40db. I love putting on the quite part, I tell a friend to turn the volume to a nice level to hear the music so 60-70db then the brass comes in with +100db's it's crazy.
Quote:
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There are quite a few audio only BR discs.

There's a whole section of the forum dedicated to this kind of stuff:

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/112-su...music-formats/

I just recently got into the multi-channel music thing myself and have a few from Pink Floyd and Roger Waters. DSOTM kind of blew my mind on multi-channel SACD...I've heard that album hundreds of times, but I was hearing things I'd never heard before.

Pink Floyd is a great 4.1 album
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post #26364 of 26367 Old Today, 11:42 AM
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I do wish SACD/DVD-A was still around (mainstream) but I do feel they focused too much on the multi channel part of it and I would of liked it if they went crazy with the DR on the 2 channel track.
SACD is still alive and well...not "mainstream", but it never really was. DVD-A, not so much.


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Pink Floyd is a great 4.1 album
The SACD of DSOTM I have has both the 4.0 and 5.1 mixes...I prefer the 5.1.
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post #26365 of 26367 Old Today, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by citsur86 View Post
Wow! I guess I was never really thinking along those lines - never realized there were blueray audio discs. Definitely going to have to go looking for some of my favs. Thanks everyone!
Do you have a BR player that will play SACD? You might be surprised...I was quite surprised to find out that mine does (Sony BDP-S5100).

If you do, I had a copy of DSOTM payed forward to me by a fellow AVS inmate (thanks @Tornado Red !) and would be willing to keep the love going and send it to you.

PM me your address if you can play it back.
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post #26366 of 26367 Old Today, 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
Do you have a BR player that will play SACD? You might be surprised...I was quite surprised to find out that mine does (Sony BDP-S5100).



If you do, I had a copy of DSOTM payed forward to me by a fellow AVS inmate (thanks @Tornado Red !) and would be willing to keep the love going and send it to you.



PM me your address if you can play it back.


I have a PS3 and Xbox One but not a dedicated Blueray player. From a quick google search it looks like the original ps3 does but not the later models, which is what I have. Also looks like the Xbox one does not either. I wish I did have something that would play these, and after this convo, I may go make a purchase. If I do I would love the DSOTM copy! I'll let you know.

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===========================================
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post #26367 of 26367 Old Today, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Blacklightning View Post
This would be good but people do not buy two versions of a CD at once the same way you will not buy a DVD and Bluray at the same time.

Well a lot of Bluerays come with a DVD, so this could theoretically work like that. Main problem there is not many people buy physical CDs, period, today. Most purchase digitally if they purchase, including me. Streaming is likely even more common. Regardless I get your point and I'm sure like you and everyone else say, it's all money driven.

My Current "Living Room" Home Theater!
===========================================
Receiver:Pioneer Elite VSX-44
Fronts: B&W 684 S1 — Center: B&W CM Center S2
Surrounds: B&W 685 S1 — Subwoofer: Rhythmic FV15HP
Rear Surrounds: Polk Audio T15 — Front Heights: Polk Audio T15
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