Official Rythmik Audio Subwoofer thread - Page 883 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #26461 of 27834 Old 10-05-2016, 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
Because this is AVS Forum...we don't stop at "plenty" around here.
Some of us do.
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post #26462 of 27834 Old 10-05-2016, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
I think you need to come over and hear my setup then because the midbass slam is fantastic.The 210T's combined with my sub's nearfield crossed @ 100hz is bone jarring. Your sub placement is nothing like mine which makes a big difference.

The opening scene in Tarzan, the gun shots punch so hard at reference it made me wince.
Ah that's right....I forgot about your 210's. Those are very efficient speakers/drivers(dual 10's?) so your mid bass capability is probably exceptionally strong compared to most systems. My lower end speakers/AVR are not capable of stellar mid bass output, so my pro audio driver really filled that gap. I'd love to upgrade to a pair of DIY 8" driver bookshelf speakers(Fusion 8's) that are 94 db efficient but way too many other irons in the fire at this point.
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post #26463 of 27834 Old 10-05-2016, 02:03 PM
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I'm very understanding of the skepticism regarding MBM's. The Behringer's work because their port tune is in the 60-70 hz, chest-slamming region. Nearfield and properly dialed in, they can add a new dimension to mid bass response. This has been graphed, measured and charted to death for those who care to research this. These guys aren't hacks that came up with this.
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post #26464 of 27834 Old 10-05-2016, 02:31 PM
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I think Enrico's concerns about sound quality mixing highly articulate subs with a MBM that is not on the same level SQ wise are justified.

I also think that regular subs and speakers matched properly should be able to give all the midbass anyone could reasonably want.

FWIW, I don't think having a soundtrack outright attack the listener in terms of SPL and tactile response is healthy (nor desirable)... but maybe that's just me.

In any case, the right model and quantity of Rythmik subs should be able to provide the listener with all the midbass they could ever want, once setup properly...
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post #26465 of 27834 Old 10-05-2016, 02:44 PM
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Perhaps @dominguez1 can tell us about his system sound quality as he has the Behringer 1200d added to his FV15 and FTW21 pair and is the one started that MBM thread.
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post #26466 of 27834 Old 10-05-2016, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
So let me get this clear: some of you did spent countless hours researching for the most accurate, powerful and affordable subwoofer for your HT or Music system, lets say from PSA, Rythmik, JTR, Seaton, Funk Audio or any other ID subwoofer company and now just for the sake of tactile bass response and output you are OK with mixing your high end subwoofers with such a crapy $299 Behringer B1200 subwoofer? Wow... sorry but that does not make any sense to me. As a FOH sound engineer with more than 25 years experience I can tell you that Behringer products are the lowest quality gear you can find in the pro audio world. Not to mention how boomy the B1200 subwoofer is. As you many know I'm half Italian. My dad was very picky with Italian food and when we were kids, I remember my dad leaving the table if anybody of us put Ketchup in the pasta that was made from scratch with real home made bolognese sauce and toped with Parmigiano Reggiano. The pasta analogy looks to me the same as mixing a PSA, Rythmik, JTR, Seaton or any other high end subwoofer with a Behringer B1200. And yes, I have listened to the B1200 and I hate it.

PS: My intention is not to offend anybody, just wanted to make my personal point of view as clear as possible
It is ironic that the MBM thread starter, @dominguez1 has two Rythmik FV15HPs (is mid-bass a weakness of the aluminum drivers)? I challenge you to send him a FM8 and pay shipping both ways if he does not choose it over the B1200d (same goes for me if you so choose). Establishing the FM8 as a better solution will debunk some of the theories floating around and will result in more FM8 sales.

I was impressed by the theories and testing done in regards to the MBM thread. I resorted to the Behringer MBM because it was a cheap and risk free experiment (I purchased from Crutchfield). My Mirage OMD-28 mains and PSA subs should have good mid-bass but my room is challenging. I had some wide nulls centered at 75Hz & 95Hz that I wasn't able to address by moving subs. The 14" cubes are able to go where my 17" PSAs cannot in my room.

I feel that the proper blending of the Behringer MBM into a system is different than using it as a primary subwoofer. It will be interesting to see if Enrico's post is able to scare others on the fence away from the B1200d.

I am aware of Behringer's poor reputation. However, I have been using Behringer pro gear for years to improve my bass starting with the BFD 20 years ago. I also have the INuke 3000DSP powering my Tactile Tranducers.
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post #26467 of 27834 Old 10-05-2016, 03:02 PM
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Official Rythmik Audio Subwoofer thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
FWIW, I don't think having a soundtrack outright attack the listener in terms of SPL and tactile response is healthy (nor desirable)... but maybe that's just me.

I'm not sure if you were referencing my initial intent directly or not, but I've thought about this some. My initial goal was to see if I could get chest slamming bass akin to something like the 50 cal bursts you find in some movies when playing Destiny. After thinking about it some, I'm not sure whether it would be unhealthy, but it most likely would have become tiresome and undesirable. This is part of the reason I dropped that quest without much worry.

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Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
It is ironic that the MBM thread starter, @dominguez1 has two Rythmik FV15HPs (is mid-bass a weakness of the aluminum drivers)? I challenge you to send him a FM8 and pay shipping both ways if he does not choose it over the B1200d (same goes for me if you so choose). Establishing the FM8 as a better solution will debunk some of the theories floating around and will result in more FM8 sales.

I think Enrico was careful to convey that he wasn't simply making a competitive play with his comments as he did mention the respect he has for a bunch of other ID companies and they're products. I'm not suggesting that you're implying that either, just wanted to call it out first. Someone like me who is unknowing gets a sense of honesty from that. So I truly believe Enrico believes the B1200d is of poor build and sound quality. That being said, @enricoclaudio , were your comments regarding the B1200d's performance relative to it acting as a primary subwoofer, or as a MBM supplemental to a Rythmik sub? I assume the latter since that's what the conversation was about, but some of your points referenced it being boomy, and to some extent (tactile slam), isn't that the purpose of an MBM? If not, what do you mean by boomy? I'm just a bit intrigued after reading the other thread specific to the MBM as to why it seems so respected by the folks over there (as well as majority of reviewers on Amazon - though we all know that doesn't account for much these days).

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post #26468 of 27834 Old 10-05-2016, 03:03 PM
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Originally Posted by bear123 View Post
Ah that's right....I forgot about your 210's. Those are very efficient speakers/drivers(dual 10's?) so your mid bass capability is probably exceptionally strong compared to most systems. My lower end speakers/AVR are not capable of stellar mid bass output, so my pro audio driver really filled that gap. I'd love to upgrade to a pair of DIY 8" driver bookshelf speakers(Fusion 8's) that are 94 db efficient but way too many other irons in the fire at this point.
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post #26469 of 27834 Old 10-05-2016, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by healthnut View Post
I'm very understanding of the skepticism regarding MBM's. The Behringer's work because their port tune is in the 60-70 hz, chest-slamming region. Nearfield and properly dialed in, they can add a new dimension to mid bass response. This has been graphed, measured and charted to death for those who care to research this. These guys aren't hacks that came up with this.
Not disagreeing with any of that. All I was saying is I have plenty of mid bass and do not want or need any more.

I like how the discussion around here went from needing to be reference capable down to 3hz, to being able to cause brain trauma from mid bass slam. Never a dull moment @ AVS.
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post #26470 of 27834 Old 10-05-2016, 03:17 PM
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I have no intentions to scare anybody about using a Behringer B1200 subwoofer as a MBM. I know Behringer products very well and I know how they are made. I have a cemetery plot of Behringer products in my church. I have replaced every Behringer product in my church with better components from Yamaha, Crown, QSC, etc and have no regrets. I run the AV department in a $40 millions church so I know what I'm talking about. What worries me the most is how somebody that owns a high end subwoofer can't hear a difference in SQ between a poorly made subwoofer like the Behringer B1200 and a Rythmik F25, PSA S3000 or a JTR Cap 1400. If we all agree that there is no difference in SQ between a B1200 and high end subwoofers lets say in the 60Hz to 100Hz region then lets close the shop because we are definitely in the wrong business.

PS: This is my last comment about this particular topic, so please lets move back on topic. This is the Rythmik Audio thread to discuss Rythmik Audio subwoofers, not Behringer or any other pro audio subwoofer.



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post #26471 of 27834 Old 10-05-2016, 03:29 PM
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Lol, I just want to clarify that what I mean about unhealthy (potentially) is simply that if something is so intense it makes the listener wince or induces anxiety/panic then it's probably too much.

Also, with reference to citsur's post, I think the more important point is not whether it is harmful or not but whether having a ton of midbass thump/kick/slam will get fatiguing over time and potentially annoying/irritating in the long run.

(But that is really something only the listener can determine.)

For example, I generally watch BD movies around -30MV because that is the level at which dialogue is loud enough to be heard clearly to me but the peaks aren't usually fatiguing after a couple hours or more. I might go about 5dB louder sometimes if in the mood with a movie I'm really enjoying but afterwards it does get fatiguing and annoying and then I have to turn things down for the remainder of the day to give my ears some rest.

Now I'm not advocating listening at -30MV or -25MV or whatever... the point is one should not go well past their comfort zone for any prolonged period of time because then instead of enjoying the sound it is more of a sensory attack. Of course, since everyone is different and their setups and content choice varies so not everyone will agree with me on this. But I think that having stuff intense enough to engage the listener is important but not so intense it becomes punishing.
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post #26472 of 27834 Old 10-05-2016, 04:40 PM
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Wow! So much controversy over the little 1200D! Lol.

So...I only use the 1200D for movies. Additionally, I run the level lower than the pair of fv15hps and pair of ftw21s.

From a sq standpoint for movies, the 1200D did not degrade the sq at all...in fact, I think it probably improved it a bit as it flattened my FR a bit more.

From a mid bass tactile response standpoint, it completely changed the game! Remember when you went from 1 sub to 2? Watching a previously watched movie is like watching it for the first time again? Same experience I had after adding in this 299 1200D. Literally...it's that big of a difference from a TR standpoint.

I used to be a ULF snob of sorts...meaning any movie that didn't have it, I had trouble enjoying it because it lacked depth. But since this 1200d, the mid bass is so good, it brings my attention to that instead of the missing ULF.

BTW, before the 1200d, its safe to say that my HT was very capable of producing mid bass. I run the pair of fv15hps nearfield, have the 21's up front, and have Fusion 12s for LCR, and 4 Volt 10s for surround duty. These are highly efficient speakers that are quite capable.

From a TR standpoint, I ran the $299 1200d head to head against the $1400 fv15up. The behringer came out on top and produced more TR in the mid bass region. On my phone, but all this is documented in the first post if my mbm thread.

Its never been suggested that the sq is at par by itself with some of these more expensive subs...however, if integrated correctly it can bring a whole new level to the HT experience with near field placement.
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post #26473 of 27834 Old 10-05-2016, 05:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dominguez1 View Post
Wow! So much controversy over the little 1200D! Lol.

So...I only use the 1200D for movies. Additionally, I run the level lower than the pair of fv15hps and pair of ftw21s.

From a sq standpoint for movies, the 1200D did not degrade the sq at all...in fact, I think it probably improved it a bit as it flattened my FR a bit more.

From a mid bass tactile response standpoint, it completely changed the game! Remember when you went from 1 sub to 2? Watching a previously watched movie is like watching it for the first time again? Same experience I had after adding in this 299 1200D. Literally...it's that big of a difference from a TR standpoint.

I used to be a ULF snob of sorts...meaning any movie that didn't have it, I had trouble enjoying it because it lacked depth. But since this 1200d, the mid bass is so good, it brings my attention to that instead of the missing ULF.

BTW, before the 1200d, its safe to say that my HT was very capable of producing mid bass. I run the pair of fv15hps nearfield, have the 21's up front, and have Fusion 12s for LCR, and 4 Volt 10s for surround duty. These are highly efficient speakers that are quite capable.

From a TR standpoint, I ran the $299 1200d head to head against the $1400 fv15up. The behringer came out on top and produced more TR in the mid bass region. On my phone, but all this is documented in the first post if my mbm thread.

Its never been suggested that the sq is at par by itself with some of these more expensive subs...however, if integrated correctly it can bring a whole new level to the HT experience with near field placement.
Thanks for sharing your experience, dominguez1. This make things more clear to me. So no 1200D for music which was my 1st concerm. Then volume level for 1200D is lower than FV15HPs and FTW21s so articulated bass is not wrapped by the Behringer. Finally, SQ of 1200D is not at par of high end offerings from Rythmik, PSA, JTR, etc. Thanks again for the clarification!!



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post #26474 of 27834 Old 10-05-2016, 05:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
Thanks for sharing your experience, dominguez1. This make things more clear to me. So no 1200D for music which was my 1st concerm. Then volume level for 1200D is lower than FV15HPs and FTW21s so articulated bass is not wrapped by the Behringer. Finally, SQ of 1200D is not at par of high end offerings from Rythmik, PSA, JTR, etc. Thanks again for the clarification!!
I guess I started this mess. I was simply responding to @citsur86 regarding getting more impact from a VIDEO GAME, not even movies.

Increasing tactical feel with tactile tranducers (~5-50Hz) and MBMs (50-125Hz) is not a health risk. It actually allows for lower main volumes.

I would never utilize Behringer in a Pro-Audio application. But, I have found several uses for them in my home.

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post #26475 of 27834 Old 10-05-2016, 05:59 PM
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Talking about TR, does anybody know who is the owner of this setup?



Audioholics posted it in their FB page so I got tagged but I have no idea who is the owner

https://www.facebook.com/Audioholics...type=3&theater
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Media Room: Ascend Acoustics Sierra Towers w/ RAAL, Horizon w/ RAAL & Sierra 2s | Rythmik F12SE (x2) | Marantz SR7008 | Parasound Halo P5 | Emotiva XPA-3 & XPA-200 | Oppo 105D | Sony HW40ES |
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post #26476 of 27834 Old 10-05-2016, 06:43 PM
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^^ I believe this is @newc33 's old system.
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post #26477 of 27834 Old 10-05-2016, 06:48 PM
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Yup it's my old setup! Sorry guys I haven't been posting lately, made a vow to stay off the forums for a bit and take care of family stuff. I'll be back though no worries
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post #26478 of 27834 Old 10-05-2016, 06:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
Talking about TR, does anybody know who is the owner of this setup?



Audioholics posted it in their FB page so I got tagged but I have no idea who is the owner

https://www.facebook.com/Audioholics...type=3&theater
I see a Behringer.. 😜
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post #26479 of 27834 Old 10-05-2016, 07:19 PM
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This MBM discussion reminds me a group of audio enthusiasts in HK 3-4 years ago started this recommendation of mixing M&K and Rythmik Audio so that it can get the best of both worlds. According to their explanation M&K is punchy and Rythmik extends low and therefore mixing the two should be the perfect match. I don't have opinion on that because I can still find explanation to explain why MK and Rythmik both sound the way they sound. It is all related to time domain ringing and distortion characteristics. I did hear M&K in person. It does have a clean punchy bass, but that is because it rolls off faster so that the sub does not have to deal with subsonic signals. Therefore special effects like building tumbling sounds more that one punchy blow instead of one blow followed by a series of ripples. MK does not use any shorting ring to reduce 2nd order harmonic distortion either and therefore the distortion curve in the region that does not have large excursion have a more rapid change in distortion characteristics. All of these directions can help explain the different sound quality we hear. One sub cannot be both.
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post #26480 of 27834 Old 10-05-2016, 07:28 PM
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Sorry about the crapy picture but looks like JTR Noesis 228s LCR + Rythmik FV15HPs is turning into a very popular combination!!

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post #26481 of 27834 Old 10-05-2016, 09:51 PM
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Behringer is at best mid/lo-fi pro audio equipment. I don't understand the need for a 500 watt "pro" "subwoofer" with a high quality subwoofer like Rythmik. If it is properly setup a good subwoofer and speaker setup should do nearly anything you need. Maybe add some "bass shaker" transducers to your couch for that last bit. At best the Behringer is like throwing a tube-amp into the system. It is not more accurate but the distortion it produces is "pleasing" to you. If accuracy is your goal say No to the Behringer. I've been in the pro audio world too, I've never liked Behringer. Most pro audio speakers are designed with output first and sound quality second (or maybe third). So buyer beware, it's cheap for a reason!
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post #26482 of 27834 Old 10-05-2016, 10:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post

@SBuger has 3 nearfield 18s and increased chest-slam by adding the little $300 MBM.

http://www.avsforum.com/showthread.php?p=46108113

Many of those with success with the MBM run FV15HPs.
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Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
So let me get this clear: some of you did spent countless hours researching for the most accurate, powerful and affordable subwoofer for your HT or Music system, lets say from PSA, Rythmik, JTR, Seaton, Funk Audio or any other ID subwoofer company and now just for the sake of tactile bass response and output you are OK with mixing your high end subwoofers with such a crapy $299 Behringer B1200 subwoofer? Wow... sorry but that does not make any sense to me. As a FOH sound engineer with more than 25 years experience I can tell you that Behringer products are the lowest quality gear you can find in the pro audio world. Not to mention how boomy the B1200 subwoofer is. As you many know I'm half Italian. My dad was very picky with Italian food and when we were kids, I remember my dad leaving the table if anybody of us put Ketchup in the pasta that was made from scratch with real home made bolognese sauce and toped with Parmigiano Reggiano. The pasta analogy looks to me the same as mixing a PSA, Rythmik, JTR, Seaton or any other high end subwoofer with a Behringer B1200. And yes, I have listened to the B1200 and I hate it.

PS: My intention is not to offend anybody, just wanted to make my personal point of view as clear as possible
@Marc Alexander - Yup probably the best $300 I've ever spent for what it does!

@enricoclaudio , no offense taken, I can respect that you don't like the Behringer 1200D. That's cool, I think we all hear and experience things differently. I know I've sure been happy with it though! It gives me pretty much exactly what I was looking for at a very reasonable price and small package

Could it or would it ever replace the 3 sealed 18" DIY nearfields I have placed right behind me (formally a Rhythmik FV15HP and a JTR Cap2400)? ....no way! BUT adding it to the mix (and right behind my upper back in my case) helps bring the chest slam to a level that I've never experienced quite like this before, even at real moderate listening levels

Out of the subs that I use and have used (JTR, HSU, Rythmik, DIY SI DS4-18's), I'm not saying that the little $300 Behringer 1200D MBM is better etc. These other subs are some of the best sounding subs around IMHO and I love them all! But the 1200D does hold its own pretty well IMO and does exactly what I wanted it to do, which is add even more chest slam, and it does its job VERY well while not bringing down sound quality at all (at least to my ears). In fact I was so impressed by the additional chest slam that the 1200D added today (I've had it for a month or so now and watch movie demo clips almost daily with it), I'm actually thinking about adding 2 more - one on top of each 18 behind each of the 3 seat couch, instead of just behind the MLP seat.

I've also had a couple of HSU MBM 12-MK2's in the past and really liked them as well. The main difference to me between it and the 1200D, is that (in my subjective opinion) the 1200D sounds just a tiny bit warmer IIRC compared to the 12mk2. But I don't mind it all, it blends in real nicely IMO.

Now would a pile of the best ID subs or even DIY (row of 3 and stacked 2 high right behind me nearfield) be more tactile, have better chest slam and possibly have even better SQ? Probably, but will cost a fair amount more and take up way more space than 1-3 1200Ds at a very reasonable price. I have no complaints though - it keeps a big smile on my face


Quote:
Originally Posted by dominguez1 View Post
Wow! So much controversy over the little 1200D! Lol.

So...I only use the 1200D for movies. Additionally, I run the level lower than the pair of fv15hps and pair of ftw21s.

From a sq standpoint for movies, the 1200D did not degrade the sq at all...in fact, I think it probably improved it a bit as it flattened my FR a bit more.

From a mid bass tactile response standpoint, it completely changed the game! Remember when you went from 1 sub to 2? Watching a previously watched movie is like watching it for the first time again? Same experience I had after adding in this 299 1200D. Literally...it's that big of a difference from a TR standpoint.

I used to be a ULF snob of sorts...meaning any movie that didn't have it, I had trouble enjoying it because it lacked depth. But since this 1200d, the mid bass is so good, it brings my attention to that instead of the missing ULF.

BTW, before the 1200d, its safe to say that my HT was very capable of producing mid bass. I run the pair of fv15hps nearfield, have the 21's up front, and have Fusion 12s for LCR, and 4 Volt 10s for surround duty. These are highly efficient speakers that are quite capable.

From a TR standpoint, I ran the $299 1200d head to head against the $1400 fv15up. The behringer came out on top and produced more TR in the mid bass region. On my phone, but all this is documented in the first post if my mbm thread.

Its never been suggested that the sq is at par by itself with some of these more expensive subs...however, if integrated correctly it can bring a whole new level to the HT experience with near field placement.
+1 .....and I'm also only using mine for movies as well
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post #26483 of 27834 Old 10-06-2016, 12:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Rythmik View Post
This MBM discussion reminds me a group of audio enthusiasts in HK 3-4 years ago started this recommendation of mixing M&K and Rythmik Audio so that it can get the best of both worlds. According to their explanation M&K is punchy and Rythmik extends low and therefore mixing the two should be the perfect match. I don't have opinion on that because I can still find explanation to explain why MK and Rythmik both sound the way they sound. It is all related to time domain ringing and distortion characteristics. I did hear M&K in person. It does have a clean punchy bass, but that is because it rolls off faster so that the sub does not have to deal with subsonic signals. Therefore special effects like building tumbling sounds more that one punchy blow instead of one blow followed by a series of ripples. MK does not use any shorting ring to reduce 2nd order harmonic distortion either and therefore the distortion curve in the region that does not have large excursion have a more rapid change in distortion characteristics. All of these directions can help explain the different sound quality we hear. One sub cannot be both.
Just to clarify a bit I think your referring to the Ken Kresiel DXD808 the guys mixed with a Rythmik sub and Looks like they were having fun indeed but this wasn't the larger sibling the DXD12012 which can dig deep (down to below 10hz) and still have significant punch and clarity and very low measured distortion. Perhaps not the output monster most crave down very low but I solved that problem in my room by adding a second and stacking it right on top, I got all the kick,slam and ripples and wobbles I need

Just curious was it a KK or M&K sub you heard?
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post #26484 of 27834 Old 10-06-2016, 06:50 AM
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Originally Posted by audiofan1 View Post

Just curious was it a KK or M&K sub you heard?

It was MK with two 12" drivers, not KK.
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post #26485 of 27834 Old 10-06-2016, 07:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Gary Bechtold View Post
Behringer is at best mid/lo-fi pro audio equipment. I don't understand the need for a 500 watt "pro" "subwoofer" with a high quality subwoofer like Rythmik. If it is properly setup a good subwoofer and speaker setup should do nearly anything you need. Maybe add some "bass shaker" transducers to your couch for that last bit. At best the Behringer is like throwing a tube-amp into the system. It is not more accurate but the distortion it produces is "pleasing" to you. If accuracy is your goal say No to the Behringer. I've been in the pro audio world too, I've never liked Behringer. Most pro audio speakers are designed with output first and sound quality second (or maybe third). So buyer beware, it's cheap for a reason!
I don't think it has to do with need... more of a (subjective) want.

...kinda of like house curves or playing with LPF for LFE
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Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
I have no intentions to scare anybody about using a Behringer B1200 subwoofer as a MBM. I know Behringer products very well and I know how they are made. I have a cemetery plot of Behringer products in my church. I have replaced every Behringer product in my church with better components from Yamaha, Crown, QSC, etc and have no regrets. I run the AV department in a $40 millions church so I know what I'm talking about. What worries me the most is how somebody that owns a high end subwoofer can't hear a difference in SQ between a poorly made subwoofer like the Behringer B1200 and a Rythmik F25, PSA S3000 or a JTR Cap 1400. If we all agree that there is no difference in SQ between a B1200 and high end subwoofers lets say in the 60Hz to 100Hz region then lets close the shop because we are definitely in the wrong business.

PS: This is my last comment about this particular topic, so please lets move back on topic. This is the Rythmik Audio thread to discuss Rythmik Audio subwoofers, not Behringer or any other pro audio subwoofer.
I would say they are more focused on quantity over quality...
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Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
Sorry about the crapy picture but looks like JTR Noesis 228s LCR + Rythmik FV15HPs is turning into a very popular combination!!
I'm extremely happy with my JTR 212 + Rythmik F25 combo.
I mentioned it before, but having high output mains adds another dimension to bass that was lacking with the fancy Sonus Faber mains I had before.

They can do all the audiophile acoustic stuff (with much better dynamics, actually), but the difference with electronic music, rock, pop, and action movies is night and day. All the stuff I used to blame on "bad recordings."

Like Brian was saying, I suspect that what people like about some of these MBM setups is actually distortion (ringing, port noise, etc). It's also possible that they lacked output in that region, or had crossover issues.

Nothing wrong with that, though. A lot of people prefer some ringing and port noise for certain types of material. Distortion can sound louder and fuller, and even more tactile.

Still, I'd recommend experimenting with EQ and different crossover frequencies before resorting to MBMs. And it's possible that getting mains that can keep up with the subs is what you really want for visceral dynamics.

I'll take killer dynamics and clean over distortion. (Not pretending I'm better than MBM fans. Whatever makes you happy! YMMV)
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I would say they are more focused on quantity over quality...
Quality + Quantity, please.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dominguez1 View Post
Wow! So much controversy over the little 1200D! Lol.

So...I only use the 1200D for movies. Additionally, I run the level lower than the pair of fv15hps and pair of ftw21s.

From a sq standpoint for movies, the 1200D did not degrade the sq at all...in fact, I think it probably improved it a bit as it flattened my FR a bit more.

From a mid bass tactile response standpoint, it completely changed the game! Remember when you went from 1 sub to 2? Watching a previously watched movie is like watching it for the first time again? Same experience I had after adding in this 299 1200D. Literally...it's that big of a difference from a TR standpoint.

I used to be a ULF snob of sorts...meaning any movie that didn't have it, I had trouble enjoying it because it lacked depth. But since this 1200d, the mid bass is so good, it brings my attention to that instead of the missing ULF.

BTW, before the 1200d, its safe to say that my HT was very capable of producing mid bass. I run the pair of fv15hps nearfield, have the 21's up front, and have Fusion 12s for LCR, and 4 Volt 10s for surround duty. These are highly efficient speakers that are quite capable.

From a TR standpoint, I ran the $299 1200d head to head against the $1400 fv15up. The behringer came out on top and produced more TR in the mid bass region. On my phone, but all this is documented in the first post if my mbm thread.

Its never been suggested that the sq is at par by itself with some of these more expensive subs...however, if integrated correctly it can bring a whole new level to the HT experience with near field placement.
"Hey I have 4 21's and 8 18's powerd by 24000 watts and just adding a 299.00 12" behringer pro sub was a game changer".


All joking aside, I think there is some truth to this being many drivers that excel in deep bass are not the greatest above 40-50hz and using a driver that is better suited for 50-200hz kind of makes sense. However I do believe there are drivers out there that can do both fairly well at the sacrifice of a little bottom end. I believe that is why Tom V and Mark Seaton chose to use the Eminence Lab drivers in their line ups. They offer good deep bass performance with exceptional mid upper bass sensitivity.


That being said have you tried playing with the controls on the FV15HP to see if you could make the mid bass stronger? I have a hard time believing that the 1200d could match it with the correct settings.

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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
"Hey I have 4 21's and 8 18's powerd by 24000 watts and just adding a 299.00 12" behringer pro sub was a game changer".


All joking aside, I think there is some truth to this being many drivers that excel in deep bass are not the greatest above 40-50hz and using a driver that is better suited for 50-200hz kind of makes sense. However I do believe there are drivers out there that can do both fairly well at the sacrifice of a little bottom end. I believe that is why Tom V and Mark Seaton chose to use the Eminence Lab drivers in their line ups. They offer good deep bass performance with exceptional mid upper bass sensitivity.


That being said have you tried playing with the controls on the FV15HP to see if you could make the mid bass stronger? I have a hard time believing that the 1200d could match it with the correct settings.
Depending on the mains, when you are using 18-21" subs, it's certainly possible that MBMs fill a gap in output capability.
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