Official Rythmik Audio Subwoofer thread - Page 905 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews

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post #27121 of 27145 Unread 11-20-2016, 10:58 AM
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Mixing LVX12/FVX15/FV15HP/FV18/FV25


When mixing subs, one needs to make sure two things: 1) bass extension phase response characteristic needs to be close to each other (for instance, 45 degrees phase shift difference or less), and 2) set up the gain proprotional to their max output so no sub can overload too early.


Here is the phase response of FV18. The blue line display the phase shift from +180 degrees (top) to -180degrees (bottom). Each division is 45 degrees. THe noise below 10hz is due to signal being too weak (too much attenuation).





Common questions:
1) How do I read the above plot?
A: In a plot like above which is a basspass, find the 0 phase point and start calculating phase shift from there. Keep this in mind, phase is like a clock. Once you complete a resolution, it starts from 0 phase again and two, -180 degrees is same as 180 degrees in terms of phase angle. In the above plot, the zero phase is at 55hz. Above that, the phase decreases, which is typical for a low pass filter. Below 55hz, the phase increases which is typical for a high pass filter. At 20hz, the plot rotates from 180 degrees to -180 degrees. So at 12hz, the plot shows 0 degree, but in reality, it is -360 degrees, not 0 degree, and not 360 degrees. This is very important when you consider the big picture of phase coherence. In addition, in the midbass range, the more phase it shifts to the negative side (going downward trend), the more delay on time domain which means it is as if the sub has been placed further back. This information is helpful when one tries to set up multiple subs with slightly different upperbass phase shift or distance to MLP.
2) Can I use placement to compensate for low end phase difference?
A: No. The reason is any physical distance based approach can amplify phase difference at mid-bass and upper bass range. For instance, 20hz has a wavelength of 55 ft. Half wavelength is 27ft. The same 27ft distance that results in 180 degress (which is half wavelength, 27) at 10hz will actually cause 4 times of phase shift which is 180x4=720, meaning in the above plot, it resolves twice when we go from left to right. It causes more phase issue.
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post #27122 of 27145 Unread 11-20-2016, 12:05 PM
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Autocorrection does that all the time on my iPhone.


They should call it auto distortion!


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post #27123 of 27145 Unread 11-21-2016, 08:11 AM
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Just for fun I was looking at the HSU site at their newest models and I noticed their output numbers appeared to be much higher than Rythmik's for some reason, especially at 20Hz.

I think the test method was 1m peak with CEA-2010 burst tones. Does Rythmik use a more conservative measurement technique?

Also, I remember in the past Brian mentioned why he doesn't give the FV15HP/FVX15/LVX12 a sealed mode of operation (both ports plugged). What was that reason?
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post #27124 of 27145 Unread 11-21-2016, 05:52 PM
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I see Audioholics.com converts these numbers to 2m RMS, by subtracting 9dB. After that, they are much closer to Rythmik, such as the LV12R and VTF-2 MK5, 101dB at 20Hz.
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post #27125 of 27145 Unread 11-21-2016, 08:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
Just for fun I was looking at the HSU site at their newest models and I noticed their output numbers appeared to be much higher than Rythmik's for some reason, especially at 20Hz.

I think the test method was 1m peak with CEA-2010 burst tones. Does Rythmik use a more conservative measurement technique?

Also, I remember in the past Brian mentioned why he doesn't give the FV15HP/FVX15/LVX12 a sealed mode of operation (both ports plugged). What was that reason?
Where did you find Rythmik's output numbers?
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post #27126 of 27145 Unread 11-22-2016, 02:05 AM
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One thing attract me to Rythmik is you can't find on ebay used. I saw only one for $900 used!!! To me it's a good sign, people are holding on to theirs. I was looking at Martin Logan and B&W speakers, but they have so so many on ebay!!! Why are people getting rid of them? That bugs me.
Do you know how much more volume ML and B&W sell over a boutique internet direct company like Rythmik? The brands you mentioned are practically ubiquitous.

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post #27127 of 27145 Unread 11-23-2016, 07:27 AM
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Do you know how much more volume ML and B&W sell over a boutique internet direct company like Rythmik? The brands you mentioned are practically ubiquitous.
I made that statement regarding to speakers, not subs. Compare with other popular brands like JM LAB and Sonus Faber, you see a lot more ML and B&W. Particular B&W, a lot of high end models on ebay. You see some of the 700 and 800 series JM LAB, very few higher models. You don't find a lot of Sonus Feber.

Nakamichi PA-7 amp, own designed preamp, JM LAB Spectral 913.1 speakers, Rythmik F12SE sub.
Not hooked up: Velodyne VA1210 sub, Kef Reference Series center, Kef Bookshelf speaker, Monitor Audio bookshelf speaker, Infinity rear speakers. Acurus 3X200W amp.
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post #27128 of 27145 Unread 11-23-2016, 09:30 AM
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LVX12 Black Friday Sale!!!

The LVX12 goes on sale this week starting on Black Friday and will last for one week. The sale price is $699 shipped. Regular price is $799 shipped.
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Enrico Castagnetti @ Rythmik Audio
Media Room: Polk LSiM705s, LSiM706C, LSiM703s | Rythmik F12SE (x2) | Marantz SR7008 | Parasound Halo P5 | Emotiva XPA-3 & XPA-200 | Oppo 105D | Sony HW40ES |
Desktop: Dynaudio BM5 mkIII | Rythmik L22 | Apogee Quartet + Duet | 27" iMac|
Bedroom: B&W 685 S2 | Rythmik LVX12 | Marantz NR1606 | Emotiva XPA-200 Gen 2 | Samsung UN50JU6500 |
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post #27129 of 27145 Unread 11-23-2016, 06:11 PM
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Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
The LVX12 goes on sale this week starting on Black Friday and will last for one week. The sale price is $699 shipped. Regular price is $799 shipped.
Hey Enrico,

Any multi-sub discount available to go with the Black Friday pricing?

Thanks!
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post #27130 of 27145 Unread 11-23-2016, 06:38 PM
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Hey Enrico,

Any multi-sub discount available to go with the Black Friday pricing?

Thanks!
With such a low price, multi subwoofer purchase discount won't be offered, sorry.



Enrico Castagnetti @ Rythmik Audio
Media Room: Polk LSiM705s, LSiM706C, LSiM703s | Rythmik F12SE (x2) | Marantz SR7008 | Parasound Halo P5 | Emotiva XPA-3 & XPA-200 | Oppo 105D | Sony HW40ES |
Desktop: Dynaudio BM5 mkIII | Rythmik L22 | Apogee Quartet + Duet | 27" iMac|
Bedroom: B&W 685 S2 | Rythmik LVX12 | Marantz NR1606 | Emotiva XPA-200 Gen 2 | Samsung UN50JU6500 |
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post #27131 of 27145 Unread 11-23-2016, 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
With such a low price, multi subwoofer purchase discount won't be offered, sorry.
I assumed as much. Had to ask though!
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post #27132 of 27145 Unread 11-27-2016, 11:40 PM
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just purchased another fv15hp, but it says they're on back-order until 12/25. merry christmas to me? haha

also, i just turned around my media room, and OMG what a difference it made. i've been meaning to get another one though to balance the room. will probably grab some 18's once they're available too. also i just want to say this but it may sound mean, my father has 6 custom DIY subs with kilowatts of power behind them. he has (2) 18's & (4) 15's, all sealed running dayton audio drivers & a mix of different amplifiers. after turning my media room around in a different configuration i'm absolutely STUNNED at how much better it sounds and how much more i enjoy the rythmik than his setup. he can hit higher decibels at certain frequencies, but his setup just sounds sloppy, i guess that's the best way to put it. i do crave his main speakers though, running a pair of paradigm s8's L/R--drool. but yeah, just ordered a 2nd fv15hp, i need to balance this room better. here's hoping it comes before christmas!

Last edited by serith; 11-27-2016 at 11:45 PM.
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post #27133 of 27145 Unread 11-28-2016, 05:00 AM
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just purchased another fv15hp, but it says they're on back-order until 12/25. merry christmas to me? haha



also, i just turned around my media room, and OMG what a difference it made. i've been meaning to get another one though to balance the room. will probably grab some 18's once they're available too. also i just want to say this but it may sound mean, my father has 6 custom DIY subs with kilowatts of power behind them. he has (2) 18's & (4) 15's, all sealed running dayton audio drivers & a mix of different amplifiers. after turning my media room around in a different configuration i'm absolutely STUNNED at how much better it sounds and how much more i enjoy the rythmik than his setup. he can hit higher decibels at certain frequencies, but his setup just sounds sloppy, i guess that's the best way to put it. i do crave his main speakers though, running a pair of paradigm s8's L/R--drool. but yeah, just ordered a 2nd fv15hp, i need to balance this room better. here's hoping it comes before christmas!


Nice! You'll have to let us know how the before and after sound compare. Do you run REW and do any PEQ or room treatments currently?

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Plasma 50" TV: Samsung PN50C8000 — DLP Projector: Optoma GT1080
Projector Screen: Elite VMAX2 Electric — Receiver:Pioneer Elite VSX-44 — Fronts: B&W 684 S1
Center: B&W CM Center S2 — Surrounds: B&W 685 S1 — Subwoofer: Rythmik FV15HP
Rear Surrounds: Polk Audio T15 — Front Heights: Polk Audio T15
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post #27134 of 27145 Unread 11-28-2016, 10:53 AM
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..................... after turning my media room around in a different configuration i'm absolutely STUNNED at how much better it sounds and how much more i enjoy the rythmik than his setup. he can hit higher decibels at certain frequencies, but his setup just sounds sloppy, i guess that's the best way to put it. i do crave his main speakers though, running a pair of paradigm s8's L/R--drool. but yeah, just ordered a 2nd fv15hp, i need to balance this room better. here's hoping it comes before christmas!

Definitely, Quality is not how loud it is, it's how good it sound if you don't play it loud!!!

My experience is the difference between a good system and a not so good system is the good system sounds good soft, a bad system can only sound good very loud. Loudness mask the deficiency of the system. Back in the disco days, a lot of places used Klipch. They sounded so good during dancing, the base was so good. But if you go earlier before the dance starts, they play soft and it sounded awful!!!

I watch a lot of hours of tv a day, I cannot take the loudness, I have it soft. That's when the good Rythmic shines.

I know nothing about speaker cabinet design, it's a different animal all together and I am not going to attempt any of it. But one easy thing that you can suggest your father to check the cabinet, put braces inside the box. I have a Marshall guitar amp that I gutted and put in my own design. It is a combo amp with small box. It sounded boxy no matter what, I finally use 2 X 2 to brace the inside as much as possible. It was amazing how much better it sounds. All of a sudden I got punch, When I hit the lower strings, the floor vibrates!!! You don't want the cabinet to make any sound ( vibration, resonance). It is very easy to do if your father build the boxes already.

Nakamichi PA-7 amp, own designed preamp, JM LAB Spectral 913.1 speakers, Rythmik F12SE sub.
Not hooked up: Velodyne VA1210 sub, Kef Reference Series center, Kef Bookshelf speaker, Monitor Audio bookshelf speaker, Infinity rear speakers. Acurus 3X200W amp.
Coming soon: Own design power amp.

Last edited by alan0354; 11-28-2016 at 02:11 PM.
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post #27135 of 27145 Unread 11-28-2016, 12:28 PM
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i just thought of something. will the new fv15hp i'm getting have the rythmik logo on the grill? the one i got back in July did not. i'd just like them to match hopefully.
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post #27136 of 27145 Unread 11-28-2016, 12:40 PM
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Drop an email to Enrico to leave off the logo, or better yet send you one for your old one and glue it on.

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #27137 of 27145 Unread 11-28-2016, 12:43 PM
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Drop an email to Enrico to leave off the logo, or better yet send you one for your old one and glue it on.
do you know what his email address is? if i can put the logo on my existing sub i like that idea better
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post #27138 of 27145 Unread 11-28-2016, 12:53 PM
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Drop an email to Enrico to leave off the logo, or better yet send you one for your old one and glue it on.
do you know what his email address is? if i can put the logo on my existing sub i like that idea better
Contact Rythmik support.
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post #27139 of 27145 Unread 11-28-2016, 12:55 PM
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I am not sure there is a public email address. Just use the contact form on the website and it will go to both Enrico and Brian: http://www.rythmikaudio.com/contact.html

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #27140 of 27145 Unread 11-28-2016, 12:55 PM
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Looks like the F15HP went up over 200 bucks also. I guess no Rythmik for me this holiday season. What's the story on the 18 inch stuff?

TV: Sony XBR55HX929
Receiver Integra DTR-70.4
Speakers: Two Vienna Acoustics Beethoven Baby Grand towers, a Maestro center, and two Solus SR-C6 in-ceiling rears Sub: YTB
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do you know what his email address is? if i can put the logo on my existing sub i like that idea better
tech@rythmikaudio.com

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post #27142 of 27145 Unread 11-28-2016, 02:07 PM
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Just post it here, Enrico will reply. They were so eager to help me when I first got my F12SE.

Nakamichi PA-7 amp, own designed preamp, JM LAB Spectral 913.1 speakers, Rythmik F12SE sub.
Not hooked up: Velodyne VA1210 sub, Kef Reference Series center, Kef Bookshelf speaker, Monitor Audio bookshelf speaker, Infinity rear speakers. Acurus 3X200W amp.
Coming soon: Own design power amp.
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post #27143 of 27145 Unread 11-28-2016, 02:22 PM
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he replied

they're going to send another logo i can glue on to the other grill. i fear my ocd would have reached new heights otherwise..
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post #27144 of 27145 Unread Today, 12:01 PM
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Enrico / Anybody here have the F15HP and live in the Houston/Katy area? I'd love to hear them if you do.
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Enrico / Anybody here have the F15HP and live in the Houston/Katy area? I'd love to hear them if you do.
I'm pretty sure we have some customers in Houston with F15HPs. I'm gonna ask Brian about it.



Enrico Castagnetti @ Rythmik Audio
Media Room: Polk LSiM705s, LSiM706C, LSiM703s | Rythmik F12SE (x2) | Marantz SR7008 | Parasound Halo P5 | Emotiva XPA-3 & XPA-200 | Oppo 105D | Sony HW40ES |
Desktop: Dynaudio BM5 mkIII | Rythmik L22 | Apogee Quartet + Duet | 27" iMac|
Bedroom: B&W 685 S2 | Rythmik LVX12 | Marantz NR1606 | Emotiva XPA-200 Gen 2 | Samsung UN50JU6500 |
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