Official Rythmik Audio Subwoofer thread - Page 907 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #27181 of 30660 Old 12-06-2016, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post
In the interest of furthering your pleasure in remembering your childhood I would be happy to send a dozen or two guns your way for cleaning...

Edit: Obligatory Rythmik bass content: Gun shots are very, very loud on my Rythmik.
lol
As always, very helpful.
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post #27182 of 30660 Old 12-06-2016, 11:36 AM
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Seriously, making gunshots sound right is harder than one might think. Many people have probably never heard an actual gunshot. The tricky part is the extremely wide bandwidth a gunshot exhibits. You get a very low-frequency percussive that usually dies away quickly with the sharp "crack" as the powder burns (very, very quickly) and the bullet exits the barrel, usually at supersonic speeds (thus some very high frequency sounds are also generated). That all has to be reproduced at the right volume and the right time for it to sound real. If your sub is not integrated with your system well, and in fact if your mains do not have very good time-domain response, it sort of "smears" the gunshot turning a pistol or rifle into something more akin to a cannon or kettle drum. Yes, that's an extreme example, but hopefully provides the idea. Similarly, a sub (or speaker) that does not exhibit good time response will "muddy" the gunshot. I like my Rythmik not because it starts quickly but because it stops quickly -- that's the servo in action -- so you get that big percussive hit then it gets out of the way of the rest of the sound.

I find most recorded gunshots are much quieter, much more bandlimited, and generally more "smeared" than when heard live. Of course, it takes a special mic as well, and recording gunshots is not something I have done very often...

FWIWFM, IMO, etc. - Don
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"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #27183 of 30660 Old 12-06-2016, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by bmcn View Post
Which low pass slope setting is best on a F15HP if i use an avr, Marantz SR7008, exclusively for 2 channel music listening?
Hot damn, I posted on the Guns and Ammo thread.
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post #27184 of 30660 Old 12-06-2016, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by bmcn View Post
Which low pass slope setting is best on a F15HP if i use an avr, Marantz SR7008, exclusively for 2 channel music listening?
Hot damn, I posted on the Guns and Ammo thread.
I think AVR/12 is right for AVRs with digital bass management. Or 12dB for the compact amp models.

(Unless 2ch music listening changes things.)
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post #27185 of 30660 Old 12-06-2016, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
I think AVR/12 is right for AVRs with digital bass management. Or 12dB for the compact amp models.

(Unless 2ch music listening changes things.)
Thanks; was uncertain how to interpret this:
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post #27186 of 30660 Old 12-06-2016, 06:12 PM
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I never relay sub to gun shoot sound. One time when I arrived the gun range, I intentionally not wearing the ear muff to listen, it's not that loud, BUT after like 15sec, my ears started to hurt. It's the pressure that seems to hurt, not the actually loudness. Most subsonic ammo sounds like fire crackers to me except the pain in the ears. The magnum does produce a big boom which I think is the sonic boom of supersonic bullet.

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Not hooked up: Velodyne VA1210 sub, Kef Reference Series center, Kef Bookshelf speaker, Monitor Audio bookshelf speaker, Infinity rear speakers. Acurus 3X200W amp.
Coming soon: Own design power amp.
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post #27187 of 30660 Old 12-06-2016, 07:54 PM
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so this caught me completely off guard:

Rythmik Audio General Support <rythmikaudio@hotmail.com>
5:33 PM (5 hours ago)

to me
Hi [redacted],
Sorry for the delay.
I have refunded multi-sub discount $60.00 to your credit card today.

If there is any question, please let us know. Thanks.

Best regards,
Lynn
Rythmik Audio Inc


it never crossed my mind that i'd be eligible for the multi-sub discount considering i didn't purchase them together at the same time. +1 awesome points to rythmik.

p.s., shipping was delayed again until (supposedly) tomorrow. ;_;
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post #27188 of 30660 Old 12-06-2016, 08:12 PM
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Originally Posted by alan0354 View Post
I never relay sub to gun shoot sound. One time when I arrived the gun range, I intentionally not wearing the ear muff to listen, it's not that loud, BUT after like 15sec, my ears started to hurt. It's the pressure that seems to hurt, not the actually loudness. Most subsonic ammo sounds like fire crackers to me except the pain in the ears. The magnum does produce a big boom which I think is the sonic boom of supersonic bullet.
I do a lot of shooting and have hearing loss due to hunting without hearing protection. I have sat next .50 cal when they are going off overseas and a spotter for a barrett M82. The concussion alone feels amazing. I dont think anyone would want true to life gun shot sounds. It would destroy your hearing. Now, gun shots do not sound 100% accurate in movies. They sound a lot better on my Sierra 2's and Rythmik FV15HP but still not the same sharpness.

I have been downrange and have had bullets pass by me before you hear the gun shot and that crack is very distinct and wouldn't be too hard to remaster. The initial gunshot when you get the powder going off and the pressure build up in the cartridge and barrel and the initial sonic boom is the issue. I do not think it is the fault of the speakers or sub though. I have a feeling it is how it is recorded and mastered onto the audio file.

If someone wanted to recreate, true to life, gun shots, I dont think it would be too difficult for a professional. But why? If you are watching an action scene and you see a G36 shoot or a FN FAL do you notice the difference in the sound of the rifle that it bothers your movie experience? Even AK's sound different than AR15's. I'm so immersed into the scene that I dont even notice the difference in the gun shot sounds unless I go back and listen real close.

On another note, Live rounds sound different than blank rounds as well. Most of the prop guns these studios use are using blank rounds. Put some live rounds downrange, record it and overlay it might be the only way.
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post #27189 of 30660 Old 12-06-2016, 09:09 PM
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I really never put that much attention on the sound of the gun shot. I went on a tour in Universal Studio in the late 80s in Fl, they actually talked about sound of the gun shot. They talked about they use different sound for 9mm, magnum and other guns. So after a while, people subconsciously recognize it's a 9mm or revolver or something. I just totally discounted how real is the sound of the gun shots in the movie or tv. I don't know whether it's still true, that's long time ago.

In tv shows, I think they do make it sound closer now a days. The guns sound back in the old days like the cowboys sounded so dramatic, it's nothing like a real gun shot. Real gun shot really sound like fire crackers to me except the concussion.

Nakamichi PA-7 amp, own designed preamp, JM LAB Spectral 913.1 speakers, Rythmik F12SE sub.
Not hooked up: Velodyne VA1210 sub, Kef Reference Series center, Kef Bookshelf speaker, Monitor Audio bookshelf speaker, Infinity rear speakers. Acurus 3X200W amp.
Coming soon: Own design power amp.
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post #27190 of 30660 Old 12-06-2016, 10:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Theriddler07sms View Post
I do a lot of shooting and have hearing loss due to hunting without hearing protection. I have sat next .50 cal when they are going off overseas and a spotter for a barrett M82. The concussion alone feels amazing. I dont think anyone would want true to life gun shot sounds. It would destroy your hearing. Now, gun shots do not sound 100% accurate in movies. They sound a lot better on my Sierra 2's and Rythmik FV15HP but still not the same sharpness.

I have been downrange and have had bullets pass by me before you hear the gun shot and that crack is very distinct and wouldn't be too hard to remaster. The initial gunshot when you get the powder going off and the pressure build up in the cartridge and barrel and the initial sonic boom is the issue. I do not think it is the fault of the speakers or sub though. I have a feeling it is how it is recorded and mastered onto the audio file.

If someone wanted to recreate, true to life, gun shots, I dont think it would be too difficult for a professional. But why? If you are watching an action scene and you see a G36 shoot or a FN FAL do you notice the difference in the sound of the rifle that it bothers your movie experience? Even AK's sound different than AR15's. I'm so immersed into the scene that I dont even notice the difference in the gun shot sounds unless I go back and listen real close.

On another note, Live rounds sound different than blank rounds as well. Most of the prop guns these studios use are using blank rounds. Put some live rounds downrange, record it and overlay it might be the only way.
While nobody would want the full dynamics of a gunshot in movies, there is something magic about great dynamics and impulse response that makes you feel like you are there and gets your adrenaline going.

The same goes for HDR displays. You don't really want the full dynamics. In many respects, reducing the dynamics makes movies more watchable. On the other hand, there is a middle ground that captures the lifelike magic without the pain and blindness.
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post #27191 of 30660 Old 12-06-2016, 10:24 PM
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Dynamics of recording can never even come close to real life. Forget the gun shot, even for live band music, the recording cannot even come close to the sound of a real band. You can always tell whether there is a real band playing inside a house even when you are outside on the street. Things you can tell are the drums and crashing of the symbols. Recording cannot even come close to the attack. Gun shot must be 10 times the dynamics of drums.

I think in concerts, the sound is closer to recording ONLY because they put everything through the mic and the PA system produce the sound you hear in the concert, not the real instrument. You listen to a real band rehearsal, then you'll know exactly what I mean.

I can tell you guitar and bass do not sound the same in real person than in recordings. In fact they have ways of mic placement to make the guitar sound much better in recording than if you stand in front of the guitar amp. Carlos Santana has a characteristic guitar sound that is so liquid smooth, I went to his concert many times, one time I was standing on the third row right in front of him, I could hear his guitar directly from his Mesa Boogie amp instead of through the PA, it did not sound good. It was so fuzzy and bassy it's muddy. But when I walked towards the back of the hall going to bathroom, I heard his playing through the PA, it's characteristic Santana liquid smooth sound.

I was a guitarist for many years, I was going to buy a Mesa Boogie, I just could not pull the money out of the pocket!!! It sounded just as awful as I heard in Santana's concert.

Hate to tell you, it's all fake!!! You just enjoy the recording, forget about whether it sounds real or not.

Nakamichi PA-7 amp, own designed preamp, JM LAB Spectral 913.1 speakers, Rythmik F12SE sub.
Not hooked up: Velodyne VA1210 sub, Kef Reference Series center, Kef Bookshelf speaker, Monitor Audio bookshelf speaker, Infinity rear speakers. Acurus 3X200W amp.
Coming soon: Own design power amp.

Last edited by alan0354; 12-06-2016 at 10:35 PM.
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post #27192 of 30660 Old 12-06-2016, 11:41 PM
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Can anyone here shed some light on the A300SE amp? I found a DIY sub that uses the DS1200 driver and A300SE amp, supposely one of the kit sold by Rythmik a few years back..

I am tempted to pick it up just for the heck of it but would love to hear feedbacks of actual owners..

One thing concern me is the lack of adjustments on the A300SE compare to A370PEQ3 and A370PEQ

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post #27193 of 30660 Old 12-07-2016, 03:53 AM
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Hi all
I'm running Infinity Renaissance 90 floorstanding speakers, Nakamichi CA-5E preamp and Nakamichi PA-7 amp.
The room has unfortunately very strong room standing waves. Because of that, the bass from the loudspeakers is very weak.
I'm plannning to buy two 12inch subwoofers from Rythmik in order to improve the situation.
What is the "best" way to integrate these subwoofers?
- External active crossover (bryston 10b sub)? Very expensive....
- Rythmik Subwoofer with A370XLR2 Amplifier and using the highpass-outputs. Quality??
- Other solutions?

Regards from Switzerland

Andy
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post #27194 of 30660 Old 12-07-2016, 04:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justthinking View Post
Can anyone here shed some light on the A300SE amp? I found a DIY sub that uses the DS1200 driver and A300SE amp, supposely one of the kit sold by Rythmik a few years back..

I am tempted to pick it up just for the heck of it but would love to hear feedbacks of actual owners..

One thing concern me is the lack of adjustments on the A300SE compare to A370PEQ3 and A370PEQ
Here you go: http://www.rythmikaudio.com/download/A300SE.pdf



Enrico Castagnetti @ Rythmik Audio
Media Room: Ascend Acoustics Sierra Towers w/ RAAL, Horizon w/ RAAL, Sierra 2s & Lunas | Rythmik F12SE (x2) | Emotiva XMC-1 | Emotiva XPA-3 & XPA-200 | Oppo 105D | Bluesound Node 2 | Sony HW40ES |
Desktop: Dynaudio BM5 mkIII | Rythmik L22 | Apogee Quartet | 27" iMac|
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post #27195 of 30660 Old 12-07-2016, 06:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alan0354 View Post
Dynamics of recording can never even come close to real life. Forget the gun shot, even for live band music, the recording cannot even come close to the sound of a real band. You can always tell whether there is a real band playing inside a house even when you are outside on the street. Things you can tell are the drums and crashing of the symbols. Recording cannot even come close to the attack. Gun shot must be 10 times the dynamics of drums.

I think in concerts, the sound is closer to recording ONLY because they put everything through the mic and the PA system produce the sound you hear in the concert, not the real instrument. You listen to a real band rehearsal, then you'll know exactly what I mean.

I can tell you guitar and bass do not sound the same in real person than in recordings. In fact they have ways of mic placement to make the guitar sound much better in recording than if you stand in front of the guitar amp. Carlos Santana has a characteristic guitar sound that is so liquid smooth, I went to his concert many times, one time I was standing on the third row right in front of him, I could hear his guitar directly from his Mesa Boogie amp instead of through the PA, it did not sound good. It was so fuzzy and bassy it's muddy. But when I walked towards the back of the hall going to bathroom, I heard his playing through the PA, it's characteristic Santana liquid smooth sound.

I was a guitarist for many years, I was going to buy a Mesa Boogie, I just could not pull the money out of the pocket!!! It sounded just as awful as I heard in Santana's concert.

Hate to tell you, it's all fake!!! You just enjoy the recording, forget about whether it sounds real or not.
Agreed that there is lots of studio magic, but acoustic guitar is another case where high dynamics are transformative. Anything percussive.
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post #27196 of 30660 Old 12-07-2016, 06:32 AM
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To Rythmik...

Is there much difference between the LV12-R and its predecessor the FV12 in terms of amplification and output levels especially between 40 to 60 Hz?

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post #27197 of 30660 Old 12-07-2016, 06:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cpt_Future View Post
Hi all
I'm running Infinity Renaissance 90 floorstanding speakers, Nakamichi CA-5E preamp and Nakamichi PA-7 amp.
The room has unfortunately very strong room standing waves. Because of that, the bass from the loudspeakers is very weak.
I'm plannning to buy two 12inch subwoofers from Rythmik in order to improve the situation.
What is the "best" way to integrate these subwoofers?
- External active crossover (bryston 10b sub)? Very expensive....
- Rythmik Subwoofer with A370XLR2 Amplifier and using the highpass-outputs. Quality??
- Other solutions?

Regards from Switzerland

Andy
The Bryston is a nice unit but at the upper end price-wise. If you want an inexpensive analog crossover then get something like a dbx 223 unit (around $200 USD, see e.g. http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/223XS/ ). That would probably be my first choice as I have used them for ages. The next step up in analog could be something like a Marchand Electronics unit, http://www.marchandelec.com/xovers.html then you get to the Bryston. For digital, a miniDSP unit provides a lot of flexibility and starts around $100 USD. There are Behringer, dbx, and other DSP-based crossover-plus systems that run from a few hundred dollars to a few thousand, up to things like DEQx and Trinnov units that provide room correction as well as crossovers and such (going to $10k USD and above).

Be prepared to do some reading about modes and such and work with subwoofer placement to counter nulls in the room. Sometimes it's easier to just move the main listening position (MLP). You might want to download REW and play with it a bit. There is also a nice multi-sub tool thread started here by AndyC56.

HTH - Don

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #27198 of 30660 Old 12-07-2016, 07:32 AM
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Just received my new LV12S. A front twin ported version of LV12R; designed 1st for Singapore market. 😍
Currently running in.

Sent from my SM-G925I using Tapatalk
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post #27199 of 30660 Old 12-07-2016, 07:33 AM
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Just received my new LV12S. A front twin ported version of LV12R; designed 1st for Singapore market. 😍
Currently running in.

Sent from my SM-G925I using Tapatalk
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post #27200 of 30660 Old 12-07-2016, 08:20 AM
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what's up with the round grill? I have one of these on its way but I thought the grill was rectangular. Just never saw one with a round grill.

How does it sound?
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post #27201 of 30660 Old 12-07-2016, 08:27 AM
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Not sure yet. Did 7 hours light running in today 1st. Tomorrow doing Audyssey XT32 calibration and will report findings.
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post #27202 of 30660 Old 12-07-2016, 08:28 AM
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what's up with the round grill? I have one of these on its way but I thought the grill was rectangular. Just never saw one with a round grill.

How does it sound?
Maybe a square grill would cover/interfere with the ports?

Kemper Holt
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post #27203 of 30660 Old 12-07-2016, 08:40 AM
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To Rythmik...

Is there much difference between the LV12-R and its predecessor the FV12 in terms of amplification and output levels especially between 40 to 60 Hz?

They should be similar. I assume you are considering buying a used FV12 to work with your LV12R. In case it is the other way around, I do still have one last FV12 available. It is like new old stock in case someone need to match the appearance.
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post #27204 of 30660 Old 12-07-2016, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post

Be prepared to do some reading about modes and such and work with subwoofer placement to counter nulls in the room. Sometimes it's easier to just move the main listening position (MLP). You might want to download REW and play with it a bit. There is also a nice multi-sub tool thread started here by AndyC56.

HTH - Don
Hi Don
thanks a lot for the information. Helps a lot!
I would like to go the analog way, because I have analog sources (turntable) and don't like adc-dac conversion.
Do you think just using the highpass-output (80hz) of the Rythmik-amplifier and then feeding my amp is a bad idea? Is there an audible degradation in the sound quality? The speakers are very analytical, so....

Andy
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post #27205 of 30660 Old 12-07-2016, 12:04 PM
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Status update



We will be moving to a new location soon. The finish date of this new location has been delayed and therefore we have planned the arrival shipment after a conservative finish date. The products will be affected are FV15HP-black oak, FV18, and FV25. We now plan the arrival of those around mid Jan.


We also have a plan to offer F18HP. The dimension of F18HP is 20.5"x20.5"x21"(D). The 21" depth is without heatsink fins and grille. One needs to add 1" in the back. We will also supply standard right angle power cord for these 18" and dual 15" models. Dual 18" is also in the plan. The enclosure size is exactly same as FV25. In short, for that same enclosure size, we can either make dual 15" ported, or dual 18" sealed. The amp will be the same.


Here is the frequency response of line-in with 12hz high damping setting with phase response:



Here is the low damping with phase response:





All 3 damping settings in one plot without phase response:





The rumble filter is now set to:





The new rumble filter goes a bit lower and its goal is to provide about 6db attenuation for 10hz. I am pretty sure more questions will follow.
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post #27206 of 30660 Old 12-07-2016, 12:08 PM
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Like Brian mentioned, two new sealed models will be offered: F18HP, single 18" driver sealed subwoofer with same amp as FV18 which is the HX1000XLR3 and F28HP, dual 18" driver sealed subwoofer with HX2000XLR3 amp.



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post #27207 of 30660 Old 12-07-2016, 12:14 PM
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Will there be kits eventually offered for these new models?

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post #27208 of 30660 Old 12-07-2016, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by KMFDMvsEnya View Post
Will there be kits eventually offered for these new models?
Yes but not immediately. Maybe a few months after the new subwoofers are ready for sale.
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post #27209 of 30660 Old 12-07-2016, 12:29 PM
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I just bought two LVX12's and I want to check on the correct settings on the back.
I use a Denon AVR-4311CI that has Audyssey and two sub preouts.

So as I understand it:

Connect the sub RCA out of the Denon to the R or L line in, not the LFE.
Crossover dial to maximum since I'm using the crossovers from the AVR settings picked by Audyssey.
LPF slope to 24 dB
Bass extension to 1P music, since music is my main concern.

Sound right?
Thanks!
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post #27210 of 30660 Old 12-07-2016, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by culliganman View Post
I just bought two LVX12's and I want to check on the correct settings on the back.
I use a Denon AVR-4311CI that has Audyssey and two sub preouts.

So as I understand it:

Connect the sub RCA out of the Denon to the R or L line in, not the LFE.
Crossover dial to maximum since I'm using the crossovers from the AVR settings picked by Audyssey.
LPF slope to 24 dB
Bass extension to 1P music, since music is my main concern.

Sound right?
Thanks!
Connect the sub RCA out of the Denon to the R or L line in, not the LFE.
R: You receiver has Audyssey so use LFE IN instead.
Crossover dial to maximum since I'm using the crossovers from the AVR settings picked by Audyssey.
R: If you use LINE IN then set the crossover at 120Hz. If you use LFE IN (preferable) then crossover has no function.
LPF slope to 24 dB
R: If you use LINE IN then set LPF Slope to 12dB. If you use LFE IN, LPF Slope has no function.
Bass extension to 1P music, since music is my main concern.
R: That's OK



Enrico Castagnetti @ Rythmik Audio
Media Room: Ascend Acoustics Sierra Towers w/ RAAL, Horizon w/ RAAL, Sierra 2s & Lunas | Rythmik F12SE (x2) | Emotiva XMC-1 | Emotiva XPA-3 & XPA-200 | Oppo 105D | Bluesound Node 2 | Sony HW40ES |
Desktop: Dynaudio BM5 mkIII | Rythmik L22 | Apogee Quartet | 27" iMac|
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f12g subwoofer , integra dtc 9.8 , lv12r , Rythmik , Rythmik Audio , Rythmik Audio F12 Direct Servo Subwoofer , Rythmik Audio F15 Subwoofer , servo sub

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