Official Rythmik Audio Subwoofer thread - Page 919 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #27541 of 28388 Old 01-10-2017, 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
4 subs? did you ever end up getting an LVX12 or L22?
Good memory. I wish.
I have the 12r, 2 Klipsch and a JBL.
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post #27542 of 28388 Old 01-10-2017, 02:27 PM
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I recall seeing the FVX15 is about 3.5dB's or so above the LV12R. Let's say I pick up the LVX12 and when I do buy a house in the next year-year and a half that I realize I want more. How would two LVX12's compare to one FVX15 or if I'd add a LV12R to put nearfield. Trying to really weigh my options.

Then part of me says to wait and pay off on some small debt. UGH!!

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post #27543 of 28388 Old 01-10-2017, 03:23 PM
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A second speaker will give you roughly the same increase in output and allow you to smooth the in-room frequency response through proper placement of the two subs.

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #27544 of 28388 Old 01-10-2017, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by primetime74 View Post
If a ML Dynamo 700 can rumble a room that size(approx 15 x 20), I'd love to hear what the LVX12 could do. I'm super excited. I'm looking at soundproofing tiles since I'm currently in an apartment.
I've got two LVX12's in a room about that size. You're right to be excited.

I don't need two for the volume levels, I need two to fight room modes. As a result, I've got a nice big sweet spot and the subs are just loafing along. But man do they sound good. And they are killer paired with the Ascend Sierra-2s. Really seamless. Wife says they make it too real -- she can't just close her eyes for the gross and gory parts of a film anymore because what she's hearing leaves nowhere to hide. And that, is what I was after.

If I had to make a choice between one FVX15 or two LVX12s, I'd always take the pair.
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post #27545 of 28388 Old 01-11-2017, 08:11 AM
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Just thought I would report back that after 3 years of owning my FV15HP's both are still running strong and sound as good as the first day I fired them up.
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Display - LG OLED
Receiver - Denon
Speakers - Klipsch
Subs - Rythmik
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post #27546 of 28388 Old 01-11-2017, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
4 subs? did you ever end up getting an LVX12 or L22?
Good memory. I wish.
I have the 12r, 2 Klipsch and a JBL.
Any of those compare to the Rythmik?
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post #27547 of 28388 Old 01-11-2017, 12:03 PM
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I've got two LVX12's in a room about that size. You're right to be excited.

I don't need two for the volume levels, I need two to fight room modes. As a result, I've got a nice big sweet spot and the subs are just loafing along. But man do they sound good. And they are killer paired with the Ascend Sierra-2s. Really seamless. Wife says they make it too real -- she can't just close her eyes for the gross and gory parts of a film anymore because what she's hearing leaves nowhere to hide. And that, is what I was after.

If I had to make a choice between one FVX15 or two LVX12s, I'd always take the pair.
Sounds like a killer set up! How you feel the LVX sounds in the 30-80Hz range? Have you had any sub in the price range +- $100 to compare it to?

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post #27548 of 28388 Old 01-11-2017, 02:15 PM
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Any of those compare to the Rythmik?
Yes. Im very happy with both Klipsch in particular. 95% of the performance at 35% of the cost.
Rythmik has better quality components and will hopefully last longer but Ive had no problems with the Klipsch or JBL.
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post #27549 of 28388 Old 01-11-2017, 05:22 PM
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Any of those compare to the Rythmik?
Yes. Im very happy with both Klipsch in particular. 95% of the performance at 35% of the cost.
Rythmik has better quality components and will hopefully last longer but Ive had no problems with the Klipsch or JBL.
Interesting, I associate Klipsch with a bold and brash sound, on the bright side with their horn loaded tweeters but I never really considered their subs.
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post #27550 of 28388 Old 01-11-2017, 05:26 PM
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all the horn speakers can be tamed and sound dang good with dsp. I have some old inexpensive klipsch that I can make sing with all this new tech like rew and audyssey.

Power: Marantz sr7008, NAD C 275Bee x 2, Video: Oppo 103, Samsung 75un6300
Speakers: Focal aria 948, Focal cc900, Klipsch synergy KSF 10.5 Subs: Velodyne HGS 12, VA 1512, Rythmik FV15HP
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post #27551 of 28388 Old 01-11-2017, 05:53 PM
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Sounds like a killer set up! How you feel the LVX sounds in the 30-80Hz range?
My sound right now is flat as a pancake. I don't hear any weaknesses or strengths, just smooth and flat, very fast, and when needed, very deep. But that's a combination of the Ascend and Rythmik speakers and the Audyssey MultEQ XT32 from my old Denon X-4000 DVR. And some room treatment here and there.

Can it be better? Certainly. Will I make it any better? Realistically, probably not. It's excellent now; it really exceeded my expectations, which were high. The system sound is part way up the shoulder of the s-curve. IOW, I'd have to spend a lot of resources to make it a little better, and that's not worth it to me. This isn't a competition. I'd rather enjoy what I've built for awhile; I've dug a nice foundations, time to stop digging and enjoy the result.

And I should point out, wife is not only happy, but enthusiastic about it. I'm not going to mess with that without a really good reason. Just sayin'.
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post #27552 of 28388 Old 01-11-2017, 09:44 PM
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My sound right now is flat as a pancake. I don't hear any weaknesses or strengths, just smooth and flat, very fast, and when needed, very deep. But that's a combination of the Ascend and Rythmik speakers and the Audyssey MultEQ XT32 from my old Denon X-4000 DVR. And some room treatment here and there.

Can it be better? Certainly. Will I make it any better? Realistically, probably not. It's excellent now; it really exceeded my expectations, which were high. The system sound is part way up the shoulder of the s-curve. IOW, I'd have to spend a lot of resources to make it a little better, and that's not worth it to me. This isn't a competition. I'd rather enjoy what I've built for awhile; I've dug a nice foundations, time to stop digging and enjoy the result.

And I should point out, wife is not only happy, but enthusiastic about it. I'm not going to mess with that without a really good reason. Just sayin'.
I'd be pairing the LVX12 with Martin Logan Motion 40's. Do you have any idea what kind of SPL numbers the LVX puts out?

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post #27553 of 28388 Old 01-11-2017, 09:47 PM
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Interesting, I associate Klipsch with a bold and brash sound, on the bright side with their horn loaded tweeters but I never really considered their subs.
It's a common misconception to associate horn loaded speakers with bright/brash sound.

Yes, some of them sound like that, but some of them sound nothing like that. Good horn speakers can sound incredible - high fidelity, low distortion, great off axis response, and lifelike dynamics.
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post #27554 of 28388 Old 01-12-2017, 07:30 AM
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It's a common misconception to associate horn loaded speakers with bright/brash sound.

Yes, some of them sound like that, but some of them sound nothing like that. Good horn speakers can sound incredible - high fidelity, low distortion, great off axis response, and lifelike dynamics.
Yes, but I did hear some Klipsch speakers locally that were indeed far too bright/harsh. I was told they were the Reference Premiere series (but I wonder if the salesman was right about that, as the RP series is supposed to be a lot more refined than the previous models). I also demoed the SVS primes in that location as well, which were only slightly bright/harsh (and which I own now, but I bought mine from SVS directly).

UN46EH6030 Calibration/Settings
Samsung UN46EH6030; Yamaha HTR-3066, SVS Prime Bookshelf Mains and Prime Center, Cambridge S20 Surrounds, Rythmik LV12R; PS4, Xbox One, Xfinity X1 (CI CXD01ANI)
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post #27555 of 28388 Old 01-12-2017, 07:40 AM
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Yes, but I did hear some Klipsch speakers locally that were indeed far too bright/harsh. I was told they were the Reference Premiere series (but I wonder if the salesman was right about that, as the RP series is supposed to be a lot more refined than the previous models). I also demoed the SVS primes in that location as well, which were only slightly bright/harsh (and which I own now, but I bought mine from SVS directly).
Yes, some horn speakers sound like that.

Some examples that don't:
JBL M2 and derivatives
JTR Noesis
Some of the Danley speakers
Many others

There are a couple issues at play:
1) Frequency response. This can be corrected with EQ.
2) Distortion. This can't be corrected with EQ.

Some horn speakers are poor at FR and distortion, and some are exceptional at FR and distortion.

The horn-loaded PA speakers people see a lot are designed for max output/$, often at the expense of fidelity.

The speakers I mentioned above are designed for a combination of fidelity, output, and off-axis response.

With your SVS speakers, hopefully you can tame their slight harshness with EQ.
My JTRs have no trace of harshness. I am using EQ, but they did not have a peaky treble response that had to be fixed.

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post #27556 of 28388 Old 01-12-2017, 12:18 PM
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If I want to set all speaker trims like Audyssey on my Yamaha AVR, is it better to use bandwidth limited pink noise or full range pink noise with sub off?

I turn EQ off on my AVR and the frequency response isn't perfectly flat so is it helpful to use full range pink noise in REW with my UMIK-1 and SPL meter tool set to C, slow?
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post #27557 of 28388 Old 01-12-2017, 02:00 PM
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I agree. I've had my LVX12 for about a month and love it. I usually prefer sealed subs since I'm usually listening to music. However, I now have a room that's primarily for tv/movies so I decided to try a ported sub, hence the LVX12. I do get some time to listen to music in this room and I'm more impressed with the performance of this sub for music than movies. Don't get me wrong, it kills for movies, but I expected that. I didn't expect it to sound so good for music. For a ported sub it is so quick and articulate. It totally blends in to the music creating a great level of detail and increasing the depth and width of the sound stage. I'm actually sitting in the room now as I type this listening to the Ray Brown Trio via Tidal and it sounds great. My fronts in this room are Aperion Intimus 6T's and they can play into the 30's but I'm crossing them over at 100hz right now because the sub sounds so good. My room is 12x16x8 and this sub can shake the couch and knock things off the walls during movies, but for music its fast, delicate, and detailed. This is still a fairly entry level sub in Rythmik's lineup, so I'm wondering what going to a higher end model would sound like - not that I'm looking to make any changes right now!
The belief that sealed subs are somehow faster, tighter, more accurate or more articulate for music than ported subs is simply a myth, so there is no reason to be surprised about how good your ported sub sounds on music. A more accurate comparison between ported and sealed subs is that sealed subs can sound just as good on most music as ported subs, but have a lot less output in the lower frequencies and higher distortion. The only advantage sealed subs have over ported is that they are smaller and cheaper. A minor, but often irrelevant in the real world, benefit is more output at a very low frequency, usually below 12 Hz or so. These low frequencies are often not even noticeable regardless of SPL.

What I do agree with is that sealed subs are often the right choice for music only systems. Not because they are better, but because they are smaller and cheaper. The main benefit of ported is much higher output and lower distortion below 40 Hz or so, but this is not needed for music, so there is no reason to accomodate the larger size and higher cost. The sealed will sound just as good on most music.
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post #27558 of 28388 Old 01-12-2017, 02:28 PM
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The belief that sealed subs are somehow faster, tighter, more accurate or more articulate for music than ported subs is simply a myth, so there is no reason to be surprised about how good your ported sub sounds on music. A more accurate comparison between ported and sealed subs is that sealed subs can sound just as good on most music as ported subs, but have a lot less output in the lower frequencies and higher distortion. The only advantage sealed subs have over ported is that they are smaller and cheaper. A minor, but often irrelevant in the real world, benefit is more output at a very low frequency, usually below 12 Hz or so. These low frequencies are often not even noticeable regardless of SPL.

What I do agree with is that sealed subs are often the right choice for music only systems. Not because they are better, but because they are smaller and cheaper. The main benefit of ported is much higher output and lower distortion below 40 Hz or so, but this is not needed for music, so there is no reason to accomodate the larger size and higher cost. The sealed will sound just as good on most music.
It seems like a lot of people recommend sealed for music because they think they sound "faster and tighter." It seems ported subs can sound fast and tight too. Could the perception be that ported subs sound slow for music possibly be that some ported subs are just designed for max output? Ported subs are also more likely to have chuffing sounds, and could it also be that the extra output of a ported sub may overwhelm the music if not integrated properly? Ported subs also tend to have larger cabinets with more holes (for the ports), which if not done properly could compromise the cabinet leading to resonance and boomier bass (kinda like how a convertible car isn't as rigid as a fixed roof sedan). So, maybe it's not a flaw of the type of design -- ported vs sealed -- but rather the execution?
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post #27559 of 28388 Old 01-12-2017, 02:50 PM
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The belief that sealed subs are somehow faster, tighter, more accurate or more articulate for music than ported subs is simply a myth, so there is no reason to be surprised about how good your ported sub sounds on music. A more accurate comparison between ported and sealed subs is that sealed subs can sound just as good on most music as ported subs, but have a lot less output in the lower frequencies and higher distortion. The only advantage sealed subs have over ported is that they are smaller and cheaper. A minor, but often irrelevant in the real world, benefit is more output at a very low frequency, usually below 12 Hz or so. These low frequencies are often not even noticeable regardless of SPL.

What I do agree with is that sealed subs are often the right choice for music only systems. Not because they are better, but because they are smaller and cheaper. The main benefit of ported is much higher output and lower distortion below 40 Hz or so, but this is not needed for music, so there is no reason to accomodate the larger size and higher cost. The sealed will sound just as good on most music.
So, maybe it's not a flaw of the type of design -- ported vs sealed -- but rather the execution?
That's my understanding and I think this logic applies equally to earlier discussion about horn loaded tweeter designs.
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post #27560 of 28388 Old 01-12-2017, 03:40 PM
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The belief that sealed subs are somehow faster, tighter, more accurate or more articulate for music than ported subs is simply a myth, so there is no reason to be surprised about how good your ported sub sounds on music. A more accurate comparison between ported and sealed subs is that sealed subs can sound just as good on most music as ported subs, but have a lot less output in the lower frequencies and higher distortion. The only advantage sealed subs have over ported is that they are smaller and cheaper. A minor, but often irrelevant in the real world, benefit is more output at a very low frequency, usually below 12 Hz or so. These low frequencies are often not even noticeable regardless of SPL.

What I do agree with is that sealed subs are often the right choice for music only systems. Not because they are better, but because they are smaller and cheaper. The main benefit of ported is much higher output and lower distortion below 40 Hz or so, but this is not needed for music, so there is no reason to accomodate the larger size and higher cost. The sealed will sound just as good on most music.
News to me; thanks.
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post #27561 of 28388 Old 01-12-2017, 03:45 PM
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It seems like a lot of people recommend sealed for music because they think they sound "faster and tighter." It seems ported subs can sound fast and tight too. Could the perception be that ported subs sound slow for music possibly be that some ported subs are just designed for max output? Ported subs are also more likely to have chuffing sounds, and could it also be that the extra output of a ported sub may overwhelm the music if not integrated properly? Ported subs also tend to have larger cabinets with more holes (for the ports), which if not done properly could compromise the cabinet leading to resonance and boomier bass (kinda like how a convertible car isn't as rigid as a fixed roof sedan). So, maybe it's not a flaw of the type of design -- ported vs sealed -- but rather the execution?
I would generally agree.

Getting into specifics, ported subs have some ringing at the tuning frequency, so they can be less fast and tight around that particular frequency. The lower the tuning frequency, the less audible this will be. The slope of the high pass filter required for ported designs can also contribute to more ringing.

Ringing and port noise are sources of distortion. On the other hand, an otherwise equal ported sub will be capable of much more output at the tuning frequency at the same power and excursion levels, which can dramatically reduce distortion.

If you can invest in lots of powerful sealed subs, that's hard to beat. But under a fixed budget, ported subs can often give you more clean output per dollar.
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post #27562 of 28388 Old 01-12-2017, 03:50 PM
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That's my understanding and I think this logic applies equally to earlier discussion about horn loaded tweeter designs.
Yeah, they are very similar.

Ported subs have a bad reputation since most people have only heard ported subs that toss fidelity aside in favor of maximizing output per dollar. The good ported subs that people usually talk about at AVS (such as Rythmik) are another animal.
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post #27563 of 28388 Old 01-12-2017, 04:12 PM
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isnt it really hard for people to hear distortion in subs? I always thought so much drama about sub wars was due to only measurements could actually define a sub...and not measurements from the manufacturer, but measurements in your space...no way I could ear test my subs in my space and I have 3 different types(sealed, ported, passive radiator) my subs disappear and thats the best I can do, but measurements tells a different story, especially with nulls and ringing.

Power: Marantz sr7008, NAD C 275Bee x 2, Video: Oppo 103, Samsung 75un6300
Speakers: Focal aria 948, Focal cc900, Klipsch synergy KSF 10.5 Subs: Velodyne HGS 12, VA 1512, Rythmik FV15HP
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post #27564 of 28388 Old 01-12-2017, 09:34 PM
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isnt it really hard for people to hear distortion in subs? I always thought so much drama about sub wars was due to only measurements could actually define a sub...and not measurements from the manufacturer, but measurements in your space...no way I could ear test my subs in my space and I have 3 different types(sealed, ported, passive radiator) my subs disappear and thats the best I can do, but measurements tells a different story, especially with nulls and ringing.
Sure. Some kinds more than others.

The most common stuff - ringing, port noise, compression can all be audible.

Differences in frequency response including low frequency extension can also be audible.

I've had 4 different types of "nice" subs: Sunfire, Velodyne DD15, FV15HP, F25
The difference between all of these was audible.
The Sunfire was garbage compared to the rest.
The F25s disappeared the best of the 4.

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post #27565 of 28388 Old 01-13-2017, 12:18 PM
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The main problem with sub distortion is that the higher harmonics are much easier to hear. At 40 Hz the fundamental may be hard to hear whilst the second- and third-order distortion at 80 and 120 Hz respectively is much more readily heard (Google loudness curves). These leads to subs with higher distortion often sounding "louder", "richer", "fuller" to listeners because of their higher distortion.

Around the port frequency and below a sealed sub will typically (often, sometimes, whatever you want to say) exhibit lower distortion than a similar ported sub. How much is a function of the design and whether that matters is up to the listener. Above that, again it is a design choice, but I would say (IMO) most subs are pretty comparable though the sealed design may be better damped, but distortion-wise whether it "wins" is a function of the amplifier and amplitude as well. A ported sub above port tuning ('ish) operating at the same output level as a sealed is likely to have lower distortion because it's headroom (output) advantage means it is operating more linearly for the same SPL. The servo helps even more, but is but one of a myriad of design variables.

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post #27566 of 28388 Old 01-13-2017, 12:20 PM
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Probably a silly question, but does anyone else notice that some of the toggle switches on their sub's plate amp are loose/wobbly/make a mild scraping sound when used?

My LV12R's bass extension switch in particular is doing these things as are the other 2 to a lesser degree. I noticed the looseness from day one, but the wobbling (lateral play in the switch) and scraping noises are more recent.

It's worth mentioning I'm not constantly flipping these switches, but probably once or twice a week.
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post #27567 of 28388 Old 01-13-2017, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
Probably a silly question, but does anyone else notice that some of the toggle switches on their sub's plate amp are loose/wobbly/make a mild scraping sound when used?

My LV12R's bass extension switch in particular is doing these things as are the other 2 to a lesser degree. I noticed the looseness from day one, but the wobbling (lateral play in the switch) and scraping noises are more recent.

It's worth mentioning I'm not constantly flipping these switches, but probably once or twice a week.
I rarely (have only once) flipped any of the switched on the FV15HP, but mine still seem pretty solid. Is the looseness in yours causing any vibration or rattling in playback?

My Current "Living Room" Home Theater!
Plasma 50" TV: Samsung PN50C8000 — DLP Projector: Optoma GT1080
Projector Screen: Elite VMAX2 Electric — Receiver:Pioneer Elite VSX-44 — Fronts: B&W 684 S1
Center: B&W CM Center S2 — Surrounds: B&W 685 S1 — Subwoofer: Rythmik FV15HP
Rear Surrounds: Polk Audio T15 — Front Heights: Polk Audio T15
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post #27568 of 28388 Old 01-13-2017, 12:27 PM
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when I totally get rid of the ringing, I feel like I have no bass...any1 else like this? maybe its the size of my room?

Power: Marantz sr7008, NAD C 275Bee x 2, Video: Oppo 103, Samsung 75un6300
Speakers: Focal aria 948, Focal cc900, Klipsch synergy KSF 10.5 Subs: Velodyne HGS 12, VA 1512, Rythmik FV15HP
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post #27569 of 28388 Old 01-13-2017, 12:35 PM
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Sidenote: Been streaming MQA with Tidal HiFi lately, and the FV15HP is kicking butt with some of this music! A++

My Current "Living Room" Home Theater!
Plasma 50" TV: Samsung PN50C8000 — DLP Projector: Optoma GT1080
Projector Screen: Elite VMAX2 Electric — Receiver:Pioneer Elite VSX-44 — Fronts: B&W 684 S1
Center: B&W CM Center S2 — Surrounds: B&W 685 S1 — Subwoofer: Rythmik FV15HP
Rear Surrounds: Polk Audio T15 — Front Heights: Polk Audio T15
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post #27570 of 28388 Old 01-13-2017, 12:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by citsur86 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
Probably a silly question, but does anyone else notice that some of the toggle switches on their sub's plate amp are loose/wobbly/make a mild scraping sound when used?

My LV12R's bass extension switch in particular is doing these things as are the other 2 to a lesser degree. I noticed the looseness from day one, but the wobbling (lateral play in the switch) and scraping noises are more recent.

It's worth mentioning I'm not constantly flipping these switches, but probably once or twice a week.
I rarely (have only once) flipped any of the switched on the FV15HP, but mine still seem pretty solid. Is the looseness in yours causing any vibration or rattling in playback?
Thankfully, it is only noticeable when flipping the switch.

I'm just wondering if this means it will eventually fail or if it will stay as it is now.

If it's the latter I don't really mind.

(My power switch is quite solid, aside from occasional very mild scraping noises if the switch isn't moved perfectly up or down.

The bass extension switch is much, much looser and when moved from the center position up or down has a fair bit of lateral play, which I believe is what causes the scraping sound.

The lpf slope switch is almost as loose as the bass extension switch, but since it is a 2 position switch instead of 3, I think it appears to be affected less.)
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f12g subwoofer , lv12r , Rythmik , Rythmik Audio , Rythmik Audio F12 Direct Servo Subwoofer , Rythmik Audio F15 Subwoofer , servo sub

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