Official Rythmik Audio Subwoofer thread - Page 922 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 3199Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #27631 of 27858 Old 01-18-2017, 03:06 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Alan P's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 9,365
Mentioned: 50 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4697 Post(s)
Liked: 3324
Quote:
Originally Posted by primetime74 View Post
Unfortunately, that is part of the problem, being in an apartment I'm limited on space. I did notice that the fronts were set to large, I switched it back to small. I'm noticing a bit more output, but considering how high the volume is and the gain from the receiver I must be missing something. I have to work in a few, but will play around with it when I get back home.
Get up and walk around the room while playing a bass heavy scene. Is the bass a LOT stronger in other parts of the room? If it is, you need to move that sub!
Matt2026 likes this.
Alan P is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #27632 of 27858 Old 01-18-2017, 03:09 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Alan P's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 9,365
Mentioned: 50 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4697 Post(s)
Liked: 3324
Quote:
Originally Posted by abd1 View Post
I have a pioneer sc1323-k and the sub wouldn't turn on when listening to 2-channel stereo. I finally found something in the menu/speaker setup area where I had to select "bass plus" or something like that. I can't remember exactly, but that tells the receiver to use the lfe input for stereo. You can switch to all channel stereo or dolby pl music just to make sure the sub is on, but that's how I got mine to work in stereo.

What are you listening to as a test?
Bass Plus (a.k.a. LFE+Main, Xtra Bass, etc.) is the wrong way to go about it. This setting only works if your mains are set to "Large" and it sends frequencies below the crossover to both the subwoofer(s) and mains. This is not recommended as it can cause issues with cancellation in the bass frequencies.
Matt2026 likes this.
Alan P is offline  
post #27633 of 27858 Old 01-18-2017, 03:25 PM
Senior Member
 
abd1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 267
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 151 Post(s)
Liked: 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
Bass Plus (a.k.a. LFE+Main, Xtra Bass, etc.) is the wrong way to go about it. This setting only works if your mains are set to "Large" and it sends frequencies below the crossover to both the subwoofer(s) and mains. This is not recommended as it can cause issues with cancellation in the bass frequencies.
I believe I have my speakers set to small, but I'll double check. If this is the case how would one listen to 2.1 stereo on a Pioneer receiver? Or am I just SOL.
abd1 is online now  
 
post #27634 of 27858 Old 01-18-2017, 03:46 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
enricoclaudio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 2,657
Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1102 Post(s)
Liked: 1129
Quote:
Originally Posted by abd1 View Post
I believe I have my speakers set to small, but I'll double check. If this is the case how would one listen to 2.1 stereo on a Pioneer receiver? Or am I just SOL.
On Denon and Marantz receivers, "STEREO" is in fact 2.1. Only on "DIRECT" or "PURE DIRECT" modes you get 2.0 (no subwoofer). I'm guessing the same is valid for Pioneer receivers.



Enrico Castagnetti @ Rythmik Audio
Media Room: Ascend Acoustics Sierra Towers w/ RAAL, Horizon w/ RAAL & Sierra 2s | Rythmik F12SE (x2) | Marantz SR7008 | Parasound Halo P5 | Emotiva XPA-3 & XPA-200 | Oppo 105D | Sony HW40ES |
Desktop: Dynaudio BM5 mkIII | Rythmik L22 | Apogee Quartet | 27" iMac|
Bedroom: B&W 685 S2 | Rythmik LVX12 | Marantz NR1606 | Emotiva XPA-200 Gen 2 | Samsung UN50JU6500 |
enricoclaudio is offline  
post #27635 of 27858 Old 01-18-2017, 03:54 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Alan P's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 9,365
Mentioned: 50 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4697 Post(s)
Liked: 3324
Quote:
Originally Posted by abd1 View Post
I believe I have my speakers set to small, but I'll double check. If this is the case how would one listen to 2.1 stereo on a Pioneer receiver? Or am I just SOL.
As Enrico said, if you have your speakers set to "Small", all frequencies below the crossover are sent to the sub (the ".1" in this instance) whether you are listening in stereo or surround sound.
Alan P is offline  
post #27636 of 27858 Old 01-18-2017, 04:00 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
torii's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 1,738
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 794 Post(s)
Liked: 400
whens that ported 18 available to order? I want a bright orange one with a white port and white cone. high gloss...if you want to put some gold flake and red flames under clearcoat, thats ok with me.

I will do a review free of charge and even take pics to share with you guys. thanks.

Power: Marantz sr7008, NAD C 275Bee x 2, Video: Oppo 103, Samsung 75un6300
Speakers: Focal aria 948, Focal cc900, Klipsch synergy KSF 10.5 Subs: Velodyne HGS 12, VA 1512, Rythmik FV15HP
torii is online now  
post #27637 of 27858 Old 01-18-2017, 04:02 PM
Senior Member
 
abd1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 267
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 151 Post(s)
Liked: 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
On Denon and Marantz receivers, "STEREO" is in fact 2.1. Only on "DIRECT" or "PURE DIRECT" modes you get 2.0 (no subwoofer). I'm guessing the same is valid for Pioneer receivers.
Not on my Pioneer. In stereo, direct and pure direct there is no signal sent to the sub unless bass+ is selected. If bass+ is selected then stereo and direct are 2.1 and use the LFE crossover point, which I have set at 100hz, but pure direct is 2.0 only. I'm pretty sure this is how it's working as it took me awhile to figure out how to get 2.1.
abd1 is online now  
post #27638 of 27858 Old 01-18-2017, 04:08 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
tvuong's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 3,831
Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1544 Post(s)
Liked: 875
Quote:
Originally Posted by abd1 View Post
I believe I have my speakers set to small, but I'll double check. If this is the case how would one listen to 2.1 stereo on a Pioneer receiver? Or am I just SOL.
Quote:
Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
On Denon and Marantz receivers, "STEREO" is in fact 2.1. Only on "DIRECT" or "PURE DIRECT" modes you get 2.0 (no subwoofer). I'm guessing the same is valid for Pioneer receivers.
On Denon AVR, front speakers must be set to small in order to have bass routed to the sub(s) (i.e 2.1 on stereo 2.0 source).
tvuong is online now  
post #27639 of 27858 Old 01-18-2017, 04:56 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Alan P's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 9,365
Mentioned: 50 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4697 Post(s)
Liked: 3324
Quote:
Originally Posted by abd1 View Post
Not on my Pioneer. In stereo, direct and pure direct there is no signal sent to the sub unless bass+ is selected. If bass+ is selected then stereo and direct are 2.1 and use the LFE crossover point, which I have set at 100hz, but pure direct is 2.0 only. I'm pretty sure this is how it's working as it took me awhile to figure out how to get 2.1.
Your mains must be set to Large, it's the only explanation for what you are experiencing when listening in Stereo. Direct and Pure Direct should not have any subwoofer output while using Stereo (except when using Bass+, which of course, is not recommended).
Alan P is offline  
post #27640 of 27858 Old 01-18-2017, 05:21 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
PlasmaPZ80U's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 11,255
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1966 Post(s)
Liked: 560
Knowing how Pioneer AVRs tend to do things differently, for example, with LPF for LFE and global crossover using the same value... I wouldn't expect comparing it to a Denon or Marantz to be helpful in this specific case.

I've read about AVRs that don't send bass management to sub even with mains set to small (with 2ch sources). There are typically workarounds that involve going against typical advice (which is normally quite helpful).

In other words, I don't think comparing this specific issue with a particular Pioneer AVR to typical Denon and Marantz convention is helpful.

^no offense intended


(FWIW, my Yamaha works just like the Denon and Marantz in this respect and I'm glad it does. It seems Pioneer has some room for growth, at least with older models.)

Last edited by PlasmaPZ80U; 01-18-2017 at 05:27 PM.
PlasmaPZ80U is online now  
post #27641 of 27858 Old 01-18-2017, 05:25 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
PlasmaPZ80U's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 11,255
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1966 Post(s)
Liked: 560
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcohen View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
I do see opportunity to get a flatter frequency response via MiniDSP in the future, though.

However, it should be cut only EQ, no individual or overall filter boost in REW EQ tool. And you should do it with Audyssey disengaged and then re-run Audyssey so that it can perfect the MiniDSP sub PEQ. That way the MiniDSP does the main Sub EQ and Audyssey just refines it further.
My recommendation would be different. (More than one way to skin a cat, etc.)

The problem with running Audyssey after the MiniDSP is that Audyssey will undo your MiniDSP curve. Audyssey is already very good at flattening out the response as much as should be done (without applying too much boost to nulls).

Instead, run Audyssey first to get a flat response, then use the MiniDSP to fine tune the curve from there to your taste. I found I was much happier with the bass response when I did that.

I wanted satisfying bass, without unnatural sounding male voices or headaches. It turned out that tuning the bass response via gain & crossover wasn't nearly enough control to achieve the sound I wanted.

More specifically, I'd recommend this order:

1) Run Audyssey.
2) Tune the sub gain and crossover to get things as good as you can.
3) Tune the MiniDSP to get it the rest of the way there.

If you have nulls that Audyssey doesn't fix, you need to focus on placement and/or more subs if you want to fix them. Not more EQ boost. You don't need to fix all the nulls, though. Just do the best you can.
Would you still recommend this to the poster if he is seeking a standard flat response and not a house curve or any other custom curve?

BTW, I'm curious, what target response do you aim for?

(I like it ruler flat, except for the 120Hz/24dB LFE typical rolloff.)
PlasmaPZ80U is online now  
post #27642 of 27858 Old 01-18-2017, 05:30 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
PlasmaPZ80U's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 11,255
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1966 Post(s)
Liked: 560
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by primetime74 View Post
Unfortunately, that is part of the problem, being in an apartment I'm limited on space. I did notice that the fronts were set to large, I switched it back to small. I'm noticing a bit more output, but considering how high the volume is and the gain from the receiver I must be missing something. I have to work in a few, but will play around with it when I get back home.
Get up and walk around the room while playing a bass heavy scene. Is the bass a LOT stronger in other parts of the room? If it is, you need to move that sub!
Definitely worth trying... I get solid bass at MLP and left/right of it, but go near the back wall/corners and it is crazy overkill.
PlasmaPZ80U is online now  
post #27643 of 27858 Old 01-18-2017, 05:58 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 184
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 129 Post(s)
Liked: 21
I still think there is something not right. The sound I do get is really clear, precise, and deep. Here is the thing, with movies if I set the AVR to -35 or so there is more depth and rumble at certain parts of a scene, but the overall volume and SPL is less than it was with just my fronts. When listening to music the my fronts had more hit than I'm getting with the sub. This is with the volume on the sub set at about 3/4 of the way to max.

Sony XBR70 850
Pioneer SC-81
Martin Logan Motion 40's
Martin Logan Motion 8
Rythmik LVX12
primetime74 is offline  
post #27644 of 27858 Old 01-18-2017, 06:32 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 184
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 129 Post(s)
Liked: 21
I just ran MCACC, but it's not letting me add gain to the sub. It set it at -4.0dB. I can add gain to the sub from the status view but the volume is now even lower than it previously was. Even though the sub is nearly set to max volume. UGH!!!!

Sony XBR70 850
Pioneer SC-81
Martin Logan Motion 40's
Martin Logan Motion 8
Rythmik LVX12
primetime74 is offline  
post #27645 of 27858 Old 01-18-2017, 06:56 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
PlasmaPZ80U's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 11,255
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1966 Post(s)
Liked: 560
Quote:
Originally Posted by primetime74 View Post
I just ran MCACC, but it's not letting me add gain to the sub. It set it at -4.0dB. I can add gain to the sub from the status view but the volume is now even lower than it previously was. Even though the sub is nearly set to max volume. UGH!!!!
Can you take a pic of the sub plate amp controls? Maybe try flipping phase to 180 degrees with line in input to see if it is currently out of phase with the mains...

And are you connecting a single rca cable from AVR sub pre-out to sub input? Anything in between like a MiniDSP, etc?

You shouldn't have to crank the sub gain MUCH higher than 12 o'clock to get sufficient bass unless you have a very large room and sit far from sub.

(Unless you are using a MiniDSP or the like, which can change things especially if you use a lot of cut EQ.)

And where is the sub currently placed? Try a corner in the front if you can as that generally gives the loudest bass and EQ can tame the peaks. Otherwise, near field placement is good to try.

Can you share a pic of current placement?
PlasmaPZ80U is online now  
post #27646 of 27858 Old 01-18-2017, 07:17 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 2
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Howdy folks,

Wondering something, if anyone can confirm(or reckons the approximation is accurate) I'd be much obliged:

The upcoming F28HP will be in the same cab and using the same amp as the FV25. But, what isn't known at present is it's estimated output. I'm having a difficult time hunting down this quote, but I'm rather certain I read that the F18HP, little brother to the F28HP, will be 1-1.5dB down(at 20Hz?) from the F25.

Relative to the baseline F12 as listed on the website, that puts the F18HP @ 6.5-7dB up from the F12.

If we butcher some rather important details and assume that the same relationship atwixt the E15HP and F25(single and dual 15"; there being 4.5dB difference between the two) is preserved, is it all accurate to guess that a similar ~4.5dB gain will be seen between the single 18" F18HP and it's dual 18" cousin the F28HP?

That would put the F28HP at ~11.5dB up from the F12 @ 20Hz, or 2dB up from the FV15HP.


Pretty big difference in amp power though. The E15HP runs at 600W RMS, the F25 800W. Whereas the F28HP has an amplifier twice as strong(not 200W more) as it's little brother the F18HP.


I'll edit this gibberish down if someone can help clarify whether or not there's any accuracy to it all- and if not whether there is a incredibly vague rule of thumb that allows for a range of output increase to be guessed at given a doubling of driver quantity and amplifier power(3dB?).


Many thanks.
John Bare is offline  
post #27647 of 27858 Old 01-18-2017, 07:36 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
DonH50's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Monument CO
Posts: 9,616
Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1793 Post(s)
Liked: 1329
Quote:
Originally Posted by primetime74 View Post
I just ran MCACC, but it's not letting me add gain to the sub. It set it at -4.0dB. I can add gain to the sub from the status view but the volume is now even lower than it previously was. Even though the sub is nearly set to max volume. UGH!!!!
You should be able to manually adjust the sub's trim (volume) level after running MCACC but I am not sure exactly how to do it on anything but my old SC-27 (which is no longer in use). Here's another way: after running MCACC then, without changing anything else in the AVR, turn up the gain control on the sub. Do not re-run MCACC. That will boost the sub's output.

HTH - Don

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
DonH50 is online now  
post #27648 of 27858 Old 01-18-2017, 07:41 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
DonH50's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Monument CO
Posts: 9,616
Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1793 Post(s)
Liked: 1329
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Bare View Post
Howdy folks,

Wondering something, if anyone can confirm(or reckons the approximation is accurate) I'd be much obliged:

The upcoming F28HP will be in the same cab and using the same amp as the FV25. But, what isn't known at present is it's estimated output. I'm having a difficult time hunting down this quote, but I'm rather certain I read that the F18HP, little brother to the F28HP, will be 1-1.5dB down(at 20Hz?) from the F25.

Relative to the baseline F12 as listed on the website, that puts the F18HP @ 6.5-7dB up from the F12.

If we butcher some rather important details and assume that the same relationship atwixt the E15HP and F25(single and dual 15"; there being 4.5dB difference between the two) is preserved, is it all accurate to guess that a similar ~4.5dB gain will be seen between the single 18" F18HP and it's dual 18" cousin the F28HP?

That would put the F28HP at ~11.5dB up from the F12 @ 20Hz, or 2dB up from the FV15HP.


Pretty big difference in amp power though. The E15HP runs at 600W RMS, the F25 800W. Whereas the F28HP has an amplifier twice as strong(not 200W more) as it's little brother the F18HP.


I'll edit this gibberish down if someone can help clarify whether or not there's any accuracy to it all- and if not whether there is a incredibly vague rule of thumb that allows for a range of output increase to be guessed at given a doubling of driver quantity and amplifier power(3dB?).


Many thanks.
A doubling of power is only 3 dB. The driver and cabinet have a very large impact on the output even without the servo circuit, and then the servo circuit can change it as well. Unfortunately, as you have surmised, there is only a loose correlation between amplifier power and speaker output SPL. Too many other critical variables, most of which are unknown to consumers (most of whom wouldn't know what to do with them anyway -- I might, but I'd have to do some research and dust off old computer programs -- or more likely just download some of the new programs instead!)

Probably worth noting that it takes about 10 dB difference (10x the power) to be perceived as twice as loud in the midrange. In the bass, the loudness curves, though much higher relative to the midrange (i.e. you need much more power for 20 or 40 Hz to sound as loud as 1 kHz), are more compressed (closer together) so a smaller difference is perceived as twice as loud. Brian has also discussed that in this thread and is yet another amplifier power is less important than some might think.

IMO - Don
Matt2026 likes this.

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
DonH50 is online now  
post #27649 of 27858 Old 01-18-2017, 07:51 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 184
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 129 Post(s)
Liked: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
Can you take a pic of the sub plate amp controls? Maybe try flipping phase to 180 degrees with line in input to see if it is currently out of phase with the mains...

And are you connecting a single rca cable from AVR sub pre-out to sub input? Anything in between like a MiniDSP, etc?

You shouldn't have to crank the sub gain MUCH higher than 12 o'clock to get sufficient bass unless you have a very large room and sit far from sub.

(Unless you are using a MiniDSP or the like, which can change things especially if you use a lot of cut EQ.)

And where is the sub currently placed? Try a corner in the front if you can as that generally gives the loudest bass and EQ can tame the peaks. Otherwise, near field placement is good to try.

Can you share a pic of current placement?
I can't get the pic up for some reason. Anyways, the volume is half way, it's at 180, and slope is 24, and extension is on HT. I have it at -36 on the AVR. Which is normally a good volume, same thing, more depth, but probably less overall volume and punch. The crazy thing is I don't notice much difference in the volume if I have it maxed, half, or even a lil below half.

As for the cable, I purchased a Blue Jean sub cable. I have it on the line in. It doesn't make a difference if it's line in or LFE.

My room is somewhat long, but it's only about 12' across.

Sony XBR70 850
Pioneer SC-81
Martin Logan Motion 40's
Martin Logan Motion 8
Rythmik LVX12
primetime74 is offline  
post #27650 of 27858 Old 01-18-2017, 08:07 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Bond 007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 16,559
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2372 Post(s)
Liked: 1907
Quote:
Originally Posted by primetime74 View Post
I can't get the pic up for some reason. Anyways, the volume is half way, it's at 180, and slope is 24, and extension is on HT. I have it at -36 on the AVR. Which is normally a good volume, same thing, more depth, but probably less overall volume and punch. The crazy thing is I don't notice much difference in the volume if I have it maxed, half, or even a lil below half.

As for the cable, I purchased a Blue Jean sub cable. I have it on the line in. It doesn't make a difference if it's line in or LFE.

My room is somewhat long, but it's only about 12' across.
You still have made no comment on placement. That is the issue.
Bond 007 is online now  
post #27651 of 27858 Old 01-18-2017, 08:26 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 2
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post
A doubling of power is only 3 dB. The driver and cabinet have a very large impact on the output even without the servo circuit, and then the servo circuit can change it as well. Unfortunately, as you have surmised, there is only a loose correlation between amplifier power and speaker output SPL. Too many other critical variables, most of which are unknown to consumers (most of whom wouldn't know what to do with them anyway -- I might, but I'd have to do some research and dust off old computer programs -- or more likely just download some of the new programs instead!)

Probably worth noting that it takes about 10 dB difference (10x the power) to be perceived as twice as loud in the midrange. In the bass, the loudness curves, though much higher relative to the midrange (i.e. you need much more power for 20 or 40 Hz to sound as loud as 1 kHz), are more compressed (closer together) so a smaller difference is perceived as twice as loud. Brian has also discussed that in this thread and is yet another amplifier power is less important than some might think.

IMO - Don
Thanks for the reply mate, and the clarification.

Out of curiosity, if you were to ballpark, would you have any guesses as to how much adding a second, identical driver to a cab adds to the output?


Turns out I can't edit a post I've made. Shame.
John Bare is offline  
post #27652 of 27858 Old 01-18-2017, 08:28 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 184
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 129 Post(s)
Liked: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post
You still have made no comment on placement. That is the issue.
I mentioned earlier, I'm in an apartment with limited space. So placement is not an option until I move to a house. The crazy thing is now there is no sound at all, despite the sub being on. It appeared earlier that the sub shut off on it's on. I was watching Vikings, then the Icontrol 5 started acting up and everything went haywire.

Sony XBR70 850
Pioneer SC-81
Martin Logan Motion 40's
Martin Logan Motion 8
Rythmik LVX12
primetime74 is offline  
post #27653 of 27858 Old 01-18-2017, 08:40 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 184
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 129 Post(s)
Liked: 21
Nothing is working right. Now the speakers somehow got set back to large, but I can't get into the system to change anything. I try to pull it up on the TV, but nothing is coming up. I can't do it thru the receiver. You need a damn PHD in engineering to set this stuff up.lol

Sony XBR70 850
Pioneer SC-81
Martin Logan Motion 40's
Martin Logan Motion 8
Rythmik LVX12
primetime74 is offline  
post #27654 of 27858 Old 01-18-2017, 09:40 PM
Senior Member
 
abd1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 267
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 151 Post(s)
Liked: 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
On Denon and Marantz receivers, "STEREO" is in fact 2.1. Only on "DIRECT" or "PURE DIRECT" modes you get 2.0 (no subwoofer). I'm guessing the same is valid for Pioneer receivers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
Your mains must be set to Large, it's the only explanation for what you are experiencing when listening in Stereo. Direct and Pure Direct should not have any subwoofer output while using Stereo (except when using Bass+, which of course, is not recommended).
I stand corrected. I double checked and my receiver isn't set to bass + and it is playing 2.1 stereo. I think that means that the last sub was possibly defective in that when in stereo the auto-detect wasn't working. Anyway, seems to be working now.
Alan P likes this.
abd1 is online now  
post #27655 of 27858 Old 01-18-2017, 09:59 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
rcohen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,932
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1208 Post(s)
Liked: 519
Quote:
Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
On Denon and Marantz receivers, "STEREO" is in fact 2.1. Only on "DIRECT" or "PURE DIRECT" modes you get 2.0 (no subwoofer). I'm guessing the same is valid for Pioneer receivers.
I think my Yamaha is the same, w/ bass mgmt disabled in Direct, but enabled in Stereo.
rcohen is offline  
post #27656 of 27858 Old 01-18-2017, 10:17 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
rcohen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,932
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1208 Post(s)
Liked: 519
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
Would you still recommend this to the poster if he is seeking a standard flat response and not a house curve or any other custom curve?

BTW, I'm curious, what target response do you aim for?

(I like it ruler flat, except for the 120Hz/24dB LFE typical rolloff.)
I have a new laptop, so I don't have a screen shot handy, unfortunately.

Generally pretty close to the 1db/octave downward slope you see in the Harman / B&K curve studies.
Depending on the speaker and amount of room treatments, sometimes I like a bit of additional rolloff on the top end, to avoid harshness/fatigue. For a speaker with exceptionally clean treble (like my JTRs) and room treatments, I prefer it without that top-end rolloff. It can also land in between, depending on the speaker and room.

For the bass, I'll usually go for a few db additional boost below 100hz. Enough for satisfying impact, without being fatiguing. The shape here is a little touchy to get that impact without unnatural boomy sounding male voices.

I prefer crossing all the speakers at the same frequency (currently at 100hz), so that I can get consistent bass response all the way around.

This stuff is all highly dependent on room, equipment, and taste. I think the most important thing is to have some sort of EQ tool that lets you experiment.
rcohen is offline  
post #27657 of 27858 Old 01-18-2017, 10:26 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 184
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 129 Post(s)
Liked: 21
My icontrol app is not out of wack, a lot of times I have to turn it off now to switch HDMI settings. The speakers are set up to small, it's recognizing the sub, yet there is absolutely zero sound coming from the sub. I unplugged everything for a while, still not working. When trying to replug the sub in the AVR sub out there is loud bass noise coming from the sub, but once plugged there is zero sound coming from the sub. I've tried everything. Could it be an issue with the sub?

Sony XBR70 850
Pioneer SC-81
Martin Logan Motion 40's
Martin Logan Motion 8
Rythmik LVX12
primetime74 is offline  
post #27658 of 27858 Old 01-19-2017, 01:57 AM
Senior Member
 
laulau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: HI
Posts: 492
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 77 Post(s)
Liked: 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by primetime74 View Post
I can't get the pic up for some reason. Anyways, the volume is half way, it's at 180, and slope is 24, and extension is on HT. I have it at -36 on the AVR. Which is normally a good volume, same thing, more depth, but probably less overall volume and punch. The crazy thing is I don't notice much difference in the volume if I have it maxed, half, or even a lil below half.

As for the cable, I purchased a Blue Jean sub cable. I have it on the line in. It doesn't make a difference if it's line in or LFE.

My room is somewhat long, but it's only about 12' across.
First of all, I don't have a Pioneer AVR so feel free to take the following with a grain of salt.

This is what I would do to start off:
1. Use the LFE input on the subwoofer. This will disable the Phase and Crossover settings on the sub (to minimize initial variables).
2. Set the Volume control on the sub to about 12:00 o'clock.
3. Set the Slope switch to 12dB.
4. Plug one port on the sub.
5. Set the Bass Extension switch to 1P Low HT
6. Run MCACC (sorry, can't help you here).
7. After MCACC, set the speakers to Small in the AVR settings.
8. In the AVR, set the subwoofer to Plus.
9. In the AVR, set the Crossover to 80Hz.

While it seems counter-intuitive for us Denon/Marantz folks, it seems that this (using the Plus setting) is how Pioneer enables the subwoofer in Stereo mode. Found this conversation in the Pioneer SCxx thread.

or not.

HTH

Salk STRT / SongCtr-RT / SongSurr I ; Rythmik F12 (x2) (latest ver of my setup guide) ; Denon 4520CI; D-Sonic M2-800S; Oppo BDP93; Panny 65VT50; BJCables; NAS DLNA; Chromecast; Harmony One; Furman Elite-15 PFi; Omnimic & REW; CalMAN 5 HT i1D3 & i1Pro2 ::Headphones:: RPi3 w/Digi+ > AGD DAC19 > Cavalli LC > HFM HE400i & Meze 99 Classics :: CCA > Schiit Bifrost 4490 > Schiit Valhalla > Senn HD600 & HD6XX :: FooB2K > Schiit Modi2U > Schiit Magni2U > Oppo PM3
laulau is offline  
post #27659 of 27858 Old 01-19-2017, 04:04 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Bond 007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 16,559
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2372 Post(s)
Liked: 1907
Quote:
Originally Posted by primetime74 View Post
My icontrol app is not out of wack, a lot of times I have to turn it off now to switch HDMI settings. The speakers are set up to small, it's recognizing the sub, yet there is absolutely zero sound coming from the sub. I unplugged everything for a while, still not working. When trying to replug the sub in the AVR sub out there is loud bass noise coming from the sub, but once plugged there is zero sound coming from the sub. I've tried everything. Could it be an issue with the sub?
By now it might be an issue with the sub. Plugging/unplugging the sub into the avr while theyre both on can damage the sub and/or avr.
Bond 007 is online now  
post #27660 of 27858 Old 01-19-2017, 08:05 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 184
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 129 Post(s)
Liked: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by laulau View Post
First of all, I don't have a Pioneer AVR so feel free to take the following with a grain of salt.

This is what I would do to start off:
1. Use the LFE input on the subwoofer. This will disable the Phase and Crossover settings on the sub (to minimize initial variables).
2. Set the Volume control on the sub to about 12:00 o'clock.
3. Set the Slope switch to 12dB.
4. Plug one port on the sub.
5. Set the Bass Extension switch to 1P Low HT
6. Run MCACC (sorry, can't help you here).
7. After MCACC, set the speakers to Small in the AVR settings.
8. In the AVR, set the subwoofer to Plus.
9. In the AVR, set the Crossover to 80Hz.

While it seems counter-intuitive for us Denon/Marantz folks, it seems that this (using the Plus setting) is how Pioneer enables the subwoofer in Stereo mode. Found this conversation in the Pioneer SCxx thread.

or not.

HTH
I've tried all of that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post
By now it might be an issue with the sub. Plugging/unplugging the sub into the avr while theyre both on can damage the sub and/or avr.
I didn't unplug anything that was was on. I did when it was off.

Last night I finally was able to get it to work again. I was able to listen to music on Pandora. The sound was exceptional, it appeared the LVX was coming to life, like it needed a warm up. Even at low levels, there was a really deep hit on the bass and drums with jazz, blues, and R&B. I then put on some extreme metal and it kept up with the intense double bass drums perfectly!!!

I honestly think there is something wrong with the sub or cable. Fast forward to this morning. Not changing a single thing, the sub mysteriously is back to not WORKING at all. Everything is set exactly how it was last night, which is why I feel its either the sub or cable.

The thing that frustrates me the most is my entire system isn't working right now for some reason. I can't use my speakers at all now for TV/movies. I try changing the setting on the TV to audio system and nothing. Before, if I had the TV on and turned the AVR on, it would automatically switch to the speakers. Also, I change inputs to try to bring MCACC up on the TV and that doesn't work.

Please help!!

Sony XBR70 850
Pioneer SC-81
Martin Logan Motion 40's
Martin Logan Motion 8
Rythmik LVX12
primetime74 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers

Tags
f12g subwoofer , lv12r , Rythmik , Rythmik Audio , Rythmik Audio F12 Direct Servo Subwoofer , Rythmik Audio F15 Subwoofer , servo sub

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off