Official Rythmik Audio Subwoofer thread - Page 928 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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Old 02-09-2017, 07:54 AM
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Another Dirac tip for someday...

The size of the measurement pattern will influence the aggressiveness of the correction.

It's straightforward to try tighter and wider measurement positions, then listen to them with the same target curve.
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Old 02-09-2017, 07:57 AM
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I don't really need more than the reference and flat target curves. I just need more effective EQ in the bass and midrange of the speakers. My current version of YPAO is acceptable in the treble range but does little to nothing in the bass and midrange.

My sources are non-PC: PS4, Xbox One, X1 cable box, etc.
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Old 02-09-2017, 07:57 AM
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Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
Audyssey XT32 is still the next best option for those who can't afford Dirac Live and don't want more than an AVR (no boxes in between AVR and power amp and no power amp for that matter), right?

I have a $1K budget and want a new AVR that supports the latest HDMI/HDCP specs/standards and Atmos/DTS:X. Aiming for a holiday 2017 purchase.
Yeah, I used XT32 before Dirac. I felt it was a win overall.
I had worse luck with previous versions of Audyssey.

There are some new versions of Audyssey coming that let you tune the target curve with an app.
That would be a big leap forward.
It's difficult to say how much of the Dirac advantage over Audyssey is due to the target curve tuning and how much is the fancy mixed phase processing.
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Old 02-09-2017, 08:00 AM
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Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
I don't really need more than the reference and flat target curves. I just need more effective EQ in the bass and midrange of the speakers. My current version of YPAO is acceptable in the treble range but does little to nothing in the bass and midrange.

My sources are non-PC: PS4, Xbox One, X1 cable box, etc.
IMO, having good EQ for bass is a critical ingredient for "high fidelity" sound.
There are lots of options to achieve that, though.

Of course, budget is budget. Better to be responsible.
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Old 02-09-2017, 08:02 AM
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Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
Audyssey XT32 is still the next best option for those who can't afford Dirac Live and don't want more than an AVR (no boxes in between AVR and power amp and no power amp for that matter), right?

I have a $1K budget and want a new AVR that supports the latest HDMI/HDCP specs/standards and Atmos/DTS:X. Aiming for a holiday 2017 purchase.
Yeah, I used XT32 before Dirac. I felt it was a win overall.
I had worse luck with previous versions of Audyssey.

There are some new versions of Audyssey coming that let you tune the target curve with an app.
That would be a big leap forward.
It's difficult to say how much of the Dirac advantage over Audyssey is due to the target curve tuning and how much is the fancy mixed phase processing.
Thanks... the AVRs I'm looking at do have 7.2ch pre-outs so I suppose DL could still be an option much later down the road if necessary... but then again I have a modest bedroom setup, not an AVS ht of the month... so I probably won't need more than XT32.
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Old 02-09-2017, 08:05 AM
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Originally Posted by rcohen View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
I don't really need more than the reference and flat target curves. I just need more effective EQ in the bass and midrange of the speakers. My current version of YPAO is acceptable in the treble range but does little to nothing in the bass and midrange.

My sources are non-PC: PS4, Xbox One, X1 cable box, etc.
IMO, having good EQ for bass is a critical ingredient for "high fidelity" sound.
There are lots of options to achieve that, though.

Of course, budget is budget. Better to be responsible.
I agree, simply adding a MiniDSP 2x4 unbalanced to EQ my sub made a huge difference. Doing the same with speakers should be equally effective. Especially because peaks and dips in the bass region are more audible than higher frequencies.
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Old 02-09-2017, 08:37 AM
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So its been a couple weeks since i had my LVX12.Not gonna lie i was a little disappointed the first day i got it.I thought it was underpowered and had to turn my gain turned up to about 3 O'clock the first couple days.The sub isn't boomy at all which I thought was a negative coming from a cheap monoprice sub i got in a $150 5.1 package.It wasn't until day 3 that the sub started to loosen up/break in and i had to turn the gain down to about 11 o'clock.My old sub was so boomy I always watched tv with the Onkyo volume on 42 and movies at 47 or 48.Any higher and It sounded too loud.With this new sub i can watch tv with the volume at 55 and movies at 65 because the boominess is completely gone,just clean articulate bass.This sub even made my cheap monoprice speakers sound better.Listening to music was a real eye opener too especially for rap.Songs sound so much better amd you can actually hear everything at loud volumes not just a bunch boom from the bass.My old sub now sounds horrible to me lol.Cant believe just a couple weeks ago I loved my cheap setup but I guess its true when they say once you hear better you can never go back.I also got a pair of SVS Ultra bookshelf speakers delivered today that im going to start auditioning when I get off work.Im hoping im as blown away by the speaker upgrade as i was with the sub.I kinda knew I would love the sub though.My only worry was the LVX12 being too powerful and wishing i got the LV12R or it being not strong enough and wishing i got the FVX15 instead.For my living situation(small room/row home with neighbors on both sides) this sub was perfect
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Old 02-09-2017, 09:15 AM
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If you can live without Atmos or other sources, JRiver + Dirac PC is hard to beat.
That's Dirac limitation with Atmos right? Jriver can do Atmos, correct?
How much is the Dirac 7.1 PC version?
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Old 02-09-2017, 09:59 AM
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Cool
Do you not have room for a second one now? You can enjoy the benefits of having dual subs now, just saying...
Haha, I wish it were that simple. I'm in an apartment, so I don't have the room, plus noise restrictions. I'm hoping to buy by September. I'll see how things are then. Plus I'm still putting money into my business, but things are really starting to pick up.

I'm also thinking of upgrading my Pioneer SC 81 to a Yamaha 2060. I think the sub comes first though!!!!

Sony XBR70 850
Pioneer SC-81
Martin Logan Motion 40's
Martin Logan Motion 8
Rythmik LVX12
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Old 02-09-2017, 10:30 AM
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That's Dirac limitation with Atmos right? Jriver can do Atmos, correct?
How much is the Dirac 7.1 PC version?
Here are the prices. The "full" version license can work on 2 PCs. I have that for my theater and my bedroom.
http://www.dirac.com/online-store/

Dirac PC requires uncompressed (PCM) inputs of up to 8 channels.
JRiver can be configured to decode DD or DTS bitstreams for Dirac, or it can pass the bistream to a receiver to do the decoding.
For Atmos, JRiver doesn't have a decoder, so it can only pass the bitstream to a receiver.
Stereo might be (for example) PCM or MP3.
JRiver can pass PCM or decode MP3 to PCM.

Dirac itself doesn't do any decoding.

JRiver doesn't have any channel limits - just the lack of the Atmos decoder.
Some more ambitious people use JRiver for 16+ channel setups, including active crossovers, mid-bass monitors, and Audiolense XO room correction.
Compared to Dirac, Audiolense XO can also do crossovers, and there is no channel limit.
Also Dirac does its own processing, while Audiolense uses JRiver's build in processing features.
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Old 02-09-2017, 10:54 AM
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Here is how my FV15HP is currently set. Anyone see any issues?

Also, I'm considering changing its position to the more nearfield spot which I've already run a cable to (for the last LV12R)



I have only really gone by the setup sheet that came with mine. Here's what it states when using with and AVR:
"Recommended initial setup when using an AVR
In the AVR menu, make sure the front speakers are set to “small” and the crossover frequency is set to 80hz. Select the subwoofer mode, such that the bass is only played back from subwoofer, not “subwoofer + front speakers.” Next, make sure the distance settings of the speakers and subwoofer are correct in terms of their relative distances.

Recommended plate amplifier settings
(from top to bottom, left to right)

1. Input: LFE (higher bandwidth) or LINE-IN - You have this right, I use the left LFE as well
2. PEQ: OFF - Good
3. Gain: 0db - Not sure if it matters, but yours is not on 0
4. Bandwidth: middle position - you are at max
5. Frequency: middle position (40 Hz) - Can't tell in pic what you have
6. Delay/phase: 0 - Good
7. Crossover: max - Good
8. Volume: middle position (12 o’clock) - Yours is a bit higher. When I run Audyssey, I get pretty good results with my volume at 12 o'clock. Recently I bumped it higher so Audyseey would lower my sub, and then I bumped it back up in the AVR settings rather than on the sub itself
9. LOWPASS filter: AVR/12 - Hard to tell, verify it's in the middle
10. Rumble filter: OFF/1 for one port configuration and ON/2 for 2-port configuration
11. Extension filter: 14 Hz high damping for articulate sound and 14 Hz low damping for full bodied HT sound.

Again, I'm no expert and would be curious to see what others say about all these setting. Also, I am int he process of acquiring #2 , does that change the settings or do you set everything the same on both?
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Old 02-09-2017, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by joemannnnn View Post
I have only really gone by the setup sheet that came with mine. Here's what it states when using with and AVR:
"Recommended initial setup when using an AVR
In the AVR menu, make sure the front speakers are set to “small” and the crossover frequency is set to 80hz. Select the subwoofer mode, such that the bass is only played back from subwoofer, not “subwoofer + front speakers.” Next, make sure the distance settings of the speakers and subwoofer are correct in terms of their relative distances.

Recommended plate amplifier settings
(from top to bottom, left to right)

1. Input: LFE (higher bandwidth) or LINE-IN - You have this right, I use the left LFE as well
2. PEQ: OFF - Good
3. Gain: 0db - Not sure if it matters, but yours is not on 0
4. Bandwidth: middle position - you are at max
5. Frequency: middle position (40 Hz) - Can't tell in pic what you have
6. Delay/phase: 0 - Good
7. Crossover: max - Good
8. Volume: middle position (12 o’clock) - Yours is a bit higher. When I run Audyssey, I get pretty good results with my volume at 12 o'clock. Recently I bumped it higher so Audyseey would lower my sub, and then I bumped it back up in the AVR settings rather than on the sub itself
9. LOWPASS filter: AVR/12 - Hard to tell, verify it's in the middle
10. Rumble filter: OFF/1 for one port configuration and ON/2 for 2-port configuration
11. Extension filter: 14 Hz high damping for articulate sound and 14 Hz low damping for full bodied HT sound.

Again, I'm no expert and would be curious to see what others say about all these setting. Also, I am int he process of acquiring #2 , does that change the settings or do you set everything the same on both?
Thanks for the detailed response. Gain, Bandwidth, and Frequency I thought are negligeable here since I am not using the Amp PEQ (off and using a 2x4HD instead). I set my volume to about 2 oclock for the same reason. At this setting, the AVR sets it to -6db which I believe was the recommendation for these subs. Lowpass is set to middle AVR/12. Using 1 port currently so set rumble filter off. Using Low damping currently as I like the deeper extension and use the sub majority of the time for movie/tv watching. I usually flip it to high when listening to music.

My Current "Living Room" Home Theater!My Frequency ResponsesDialing in Rythmik SubsGetting Started with REW
TV:Samsung PN50C8000——Projector:Optoma GT1080——Screen:Elite VMAX2 Electric——AVR:VSX-44——Fronts:B&W 684 S1
Center:B&W CM Center S2——Surrounds:B&W 685 S1——Subs:2xRythmik FV15HP——Rear Surrounds & Front Height:Polk T15

Last edited by citsur86; 02-09-2017 at 11:03 AM.
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Old 02-09-2017, 11:06 AM
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Thanks for the detailed response. Gain, Bandwidth, and Frequency I thought are negligeable here since I am not using the Amp PEQ (using a 2x4HD instead). I set my volume to about 2 oclock for the same reason. At this setting, the AVR sets it to -6db which I believe was the recommendation for these subs. Lowpass is set to middle AVR/12. Using 1 port currently so set rumble filter off. Using Low damping currently as I like the deeper extension and use the sub majority of the time for movie/tv watching. I usually flip it to high when listening to music.
No problem, I just copied and pasted from the sheet. As far as gain, bandwith, and frequency, I agree with you and am not sure if it matters at all. I just go by the paper because I'm a newb. Regarding volume, if AVR sets it at -6, I think you're good. Mine is a few clicks past 12 and gets set to -9, and I bump it up some in the avr
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Old 02-09-2017, 11:21 AM
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No problem, I just copied and pasted from the sheet. As far as gain, bandwith, and frequency, I agree with you and am not sure if it matters at all. I just go by the paper because I'm a newb. Regarding volume, if AVR sets it at -6, I think you're good. Mine is a few clicks past 12 and gets set to -9, and I bump it up some in the avr
Yeah my main listening position is about 12ft from the Sub currently and the room is quite large. That's why even with a second LFE in I need to set sub volume to 2oclock for a -6db MCACC (Pioneer's Audysey). Really toying with moving it to my old sub position at about 1ft from MLP. I moved the larger FV15HP from there to across the room due to the better response across the room (whereas the LV12R I used to have had a better response at the nearfield position) and also there was some localization from the FV15HP at the nearfield position.

My Current "Living Room" Home Theater!My Frequency ResponsesDialing in Rythmik SubsGetting Started with REW
TV:Samsung PN50C8000——Projector:Optoma GT1080——Screen:Elite VMAX2 Electric——AVR:VSX-44——Fronts:B&W 684 S1
Center:B&W CM Center S2——Surrounds:B&W 685 S1——Subs:2xRythmik FV15HP——Rear Surrounds & Front Height:Polk T15
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Old 02-10-2017, 02:46 AM
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We recommend up to 20 ft long wires for sensing and voice coil. That been said, I have a customer running 25 ft long wires for sensing and voice coils without any issue.
Many thanks.

I have a question on driver dimensions. Rythmik Audio says DS1510 Driver cutout is 14-1/16" and Outer diameter 15-5/16", what would these approximate in centimeters? A bit confused with the notation that's why I am asking.

Also if you have handy cutout and external dimensions of H600PEQ3, that would be much appreciated.

My plan is to start working on the fixture while order is being shipped.
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Old 02-10-2017, 03:26 AM
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I have a question on driver dimensions. Rythmik Audio says DS1510 Driver cutout is 14-1/16" and Outer diameter 15-5/16", what would these approximate in centimeters? A bit confused with the notation that's why I am asking.
The notation " means inches.
14-1/16" = 14.0625" which converts to 35.71875cm
15-5/16" = 15.3125" which converts to 38.89375cm

Packing a lot of sound into a small room.
268 square feet/2144 cubic feet
7.2 surround sound.
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Old 02-10-2017, 05:41 AM
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Many thanks.

I have a question on driver dimensions. Rythmik Audio says DS1510 Driver cutout is 14-1/16" and Outer diameter 15-5/16", what would these approximate in centimeters? A bit confused with the notation that's why I am asking.

Also if you have handy cutout and external dimensions of H600PEQ3, that would be much appreciated.

My plan is to start working on the fixture while order is being shipped.
If you go sealed, you can check for our plans in metric units:

http://www.rythmikaudio.com/download..._in_Metric.pdf

These plans are to use with DS1501 and DS1510 in a 4 cu ft box.



Enrico Castagnetti @ Rythmik Audio
Media Room: Ascend Acoustics Sierra Towers w/ RAAL, Horizon w/ RAAL & Sierra 2s | Rythmik F12SE (x2) | Marantz SR7008 | Parasound Halo P5 | Emotiva XPA-3 & XPA-200 | Oppo 105D | Sony HW40ES |
Desktop: Dynaudio BM5 mkIII | Rythmik L22 | Apogee Quartet | 27" iMac|
Bedroom: B&W 685 S2 | Rythmik LVX12 | Marantz NR1606 | Emotiva XPA-200 Gen 2 | Samsung UN50JU6500 |
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Old 02-10-2017, 07:57 AM
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Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
Audyssey XT32 is still the next best option for those who can't afford Dirac Live and don't want more than an AVR (no boxes in between AVR and power amp and no power amp for that matter), right?

I have a $1K budget and want a new AVR that supports the latest HDMI/HDCP specs/standards and Atmos/DTS:X. Aiming for a holiday 2017 purchase.
I am not sure...I like my Yamaha 1060 that has 9 band peq for all speakers from 31-16khz and 4 band peq from 15-250hz for the Subwoofer. I prefer to be able to manually tweak my systems response post calibration, so this appeared to be the right unit for me. That being said the 2060 and 3060 give you dual independent sub control, however I had no trouble dialing in my 3 subs with the 1060.
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Old 02-10-2017, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
Audyssey XT32 is still the next best option for those who can't afford Dirac Live and don't want more than an AVR (no boxes in between AVR and power amp and no power amp for that matter), right?

I have a $1K budget and want a new AVR that supports the latest HDMI/HDCP specs/standards and Atmos/DTS:X. Aiming for a holiday 2017 purchase.
I am not sure...I like my Yamaha 1060 that has 9 band peq for all speakers from 31-16khz and 4 band peq from 15-250hz for the Subwoofer. I prefer to be able to manually tweak my systems response post calibration, so this appeared to be the right unit for me. That being said the 2060 and 3060 give you dual independent sub control, however I had no trouble dialing in my 3 subs with the 1060.
Are those bands fully utilized with YPAO or are they only for manual use/tweaking?

Also, does YPAO correct for time domain response (aka phase, impulse response) or is it PEQ only?
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Old 02-10-2017, 11:08 AM
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Are those bands fully utilized with YPAO?

Also, does YPAO correct for time domain response (aka phase, impulse response) or is it PEQ only?
Yes and yes.
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Old 02-10-2017, 11:23 AM
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I am not sure...I like my Yamaha 1060 that has 9 band peq for all speakers from 31-16khz and 4 band peq from 15-250hz for the Subwoofer. I prefer to be able to manually tweak my systems response post calibration, so this appeared to be the right unit for me. That being said the 2060 and 3060 give you dual independent sub control, however I had no trouble dialing in my 3 subs with the 1060.
This has always been a question for me. I was told with the MiniDSP 2x4HD to set PEQ up before EQ (turn AVR EQ off), then after PEQ is completed, redo my MCACC calibration. Based on what you said here, is that correct? I always though it would make more sense to do the EQ first, then create a REW filter and apply PEQ.

My Current "Living Room" Home Theater!My Frequency ResponsesDialing in Rythmik SubsGetting Started with REW
TV:Samsung PN50C8000——Projector:Optoma GT1080——Screen:Elite VMAX2 Electric——AVR:VSX-44——Fronts:B&W 684 S1
Center:B&W CM Center S2——Surrounds:B&W 685 S1——Subs:2xRythmik FV15HP——Rear Surrounds & Front Height:Polk T15
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Old 02-10-2017, 11:58 AM
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I am not sure...I like my Yamaha 1060 that has 9 band peq for all speakers from 31-16khz and 4 band peq from 15-250hz for the Subwoofer. I prefer to be able to manually tweak my systems response post calibration, so this appeared to be the right unit for me. That being said the 2060 and 3060 give you dual independent sub control, however I had no trouble dialing in my 3 subs with the 1060.
This has always been a question for me. I was told with the MiniDSP 2x4HD to set PEQ up before EQ (turn AVR EQ off), then after PEQ is completed, redo my MCACC calibration. Based on what you said here, is that correct? I always though it would make more sense to do the EQ first, then create a REW filter and apply PEQ.
Your AVR doesn't EQ the subwoofer, so it makes sense to do sub PEQ via MiniDSP first and then add whatever auto EQ MCACC does.

I use the same approach with mine since my version of YPAO doesn't EQ the sub either.
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Old 02-10-2017, 12:01 PM
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Are those bands fully utilized with YPAO?

Also, does YPAO correct for time domain response (aka phase, impulse response) or is it PEQ only?
Yes and yes.
Do all the Yamahas with YPAO (Reflected Sound Control and Multi-Point Measurement) do this? Or only the top of the line models?
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Old 02-10-2017, 07:01 PM
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As interesting as these recent discussions are, this thread seems to have strayed a bit . . . .
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Old 02-10-2017, 09:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
Are those bands fully utilized with YPAO or are they only for manual use/tweaking?

Also, does YPAO correct for time domain response (aka phase, impulse response) or is it PEQ only?
YPAO Auto does not EQ sub below 31Hz. The lowest PEQ filter is a manual adjustment. YPAO can set sub distance but does not create time domain filters like other REQ systems.
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Originally Posted by Andre Smith View Post
As interesting as these recent discussions are, this thread seems to have strayed a bit . . . .
I'm sure we all would love to be discussing the new Rythmik subs but the delay has been long and updates sparse.
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Old 02-10-2017, 10:41 PM
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Any word on the new 18" models?
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Old 02-11-2017, 07:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
Are those bands fully utilized with YPAO or are they only for manual use/tweaking?

Also, does YPAO correct for time domain response (aka phase, impulse response) or is it PEQ only?
YPAO Auto does not EQ sub below 31Hz. The lowest PEQ filter is a manual adjustment. YPAO can set sub distance but does not create time domain filters like other REQ systems.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andre Smith View Post
As interesting as these recent discussions are, this thread seems to have strayed a bit . . . .
I'm sure we all would love to be discussing the new Rythmik subs but the delay has been long and updates sparse.
Now I'm confused... I thought Bond said the opposite about time domain filters.
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Old 02-11-2017, 07:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andre Smith View Post
As interesting as these recent discussions are, this thread seems to have strayed a bit . . . .
Sorry, it's just that audio is a full system and speakers/AVRs/pre-pros/amps all go with subs. In fact, even video does unless you listen to music only. It's just the varied nature of ht/av.

To add to the sub discussion, though, my LV12R is impressing on a new level since I got phase right and bypassed the sub LPF.
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Old 02-11-2017, 09:37 AM
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Official Rythmik Audio Subwoofer thread

Moving and measuring today I did something super stupid. Didn't take the front off before moving :-( Warning! graphic content below (not really)




@enricoclaudio can I pay for a replacement (and new logo)? What's the damage?

My Current "Living Room" Home Theater!My Frequency ResponsesDialing in Rythmik SubsGetting Started with REW
TV:Samsung PN50C8000——Projector:Optoma GT1080——Screen:Elite VMAX2 Electric——AVR:VSX-44——Fronts:B&W 684 S1
Center:B&W CM Center S2——Surrounds:B&W 685 S1——Subs:2xRythmik FV15HP——Rear Surrounds & Front Height:Polk T15
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Old 02-11-2017, 09:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by citsur86 View Post
Moving and measuring today I did something super stupid. Didn't take the front off before moving :-( Warning! graphic content below (not really)




@enricoclaudio can I pay for a replacement (and new logo)? What's the damage?
Replacement grill for FV15HP/FVX15 is $40 shipped. All replacement grills come with the logo on unless customer request no logo on the grill.

Please, send me an email asking for the order link.



Enrico Castagnetti @ Rythmik Audio
Media Room: Ascend Acoustics Sierra Towers w/ RAAL, Horizon w/ RAAL & Sierra 2s | Rythmik F12SE (x2) | Marantz SR7008 | Parasound Halo P5 | Emotiva XPA-3 & XPA-200 | Oppo 105D | Sony HW40ES |
Desktop: Dynaudio BM5 mkIII | Rythmik L22 | Apogee Quartet | 27" iMac|
Bedroom: B&W 685 S2 | Rythmik LVX12 | Marantz NR1606 | Emotiva XPA-200 Gen 2 | Samsung UN50JU6500 |
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f12g subwoofer , integra dtc 9.8 , lv12r , Rythmik , Rythmik Audio , Rythmik Audio F12 Direct Servo Subwoofer , Rythmik Audio F15 Subwoofer , servo sub
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