Official Rythmik Audio Subwoofer thread - Page 933 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #27961 of 27981 Old 02-17-2017, 06:32 PM
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if you have ears you can trust...just adjust to your liking. I personally dont like flat from rew, but if you want flat, rew is a great tool to see whats going on. I used rew for days to achieve flat and then I didnt like it and ended up adjusting to my taste. so I say just make it sound good to your ears and screw all the science...unless you like science of course, I find it leads me in neverending circles...

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post #27962 of 27981 Old 02-17-2017, 06:44 PM
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Originally Posted by torii View Post
if you have ears you can trust...just adjust to your liking. I personally dont like flat from rew, but if you want flat, rew is a great tool to see whats going on. I used rew for days to achieve flat and then I didnt like it and ended up adjusting to my taste. so I say just make it sound good to your ears and screw all the science...unless you like science of course, I find it leads me in neverending circles...
Don't screw the science. I agree that flat can sound flat, but you want to make sure there are no wide nulls. I agree that you tweak it to taste but if you have wide nulls and peaks you will lose detail and end up with one-note bass. Why buy a Rythmik sub if you aren't going to set it up properly?

I'm not saying this is you. I agree that obsessing with REW trying to flatline FR is a path you don't want to follow.
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post #27963 of 27981 Old 02-17-2017, 07:08 PM
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Don't screw the science. I agree that flat can sound flat, but you want to make sure there are no wide nulls. I agree that you tweak it to taste but if you have wide nulls and peaks you will lose detail and end up with one-note bass. Why buy a Rythmik sub if you aren't going to set it up properly?

I'm not saying this is you. I agree that obsessing with REW trying to flatline FR is a path you don't want to follow.


I've definitely had to learn when to call it quits with REW. The idea of measured or scientific response vs perceived response is important in not obsessing. I'd be lying if I said I didn't break out the mic and take some measurements every so often though.

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post #27964 of 27981 Old 02-17-2017, 09:44 PM
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To me the difference with REW is that you actually accomplish stuff with tweaking, rather than going in circles chasing your shifting perception. I agree it's about sounding good, not achieving an ideal graph. The graph just helps you see what you're doing.
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post #27965 of 27981 Old 02-17-2017, 10:31 PM
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Originally Posted by rcohen View Post
To me the difference with REW is that you actually accomplish stuff with tweaking, rather than going in circles chasing your shifting perception. I agree it's about sounding good, not achieving an ideal graph. The graph just helps you see what you're doing.


Agreed. And to be hypocritical, I just ran some sweeps since I realized I haven't since running MCACC. These sweeps were just to see where I stand after PEQ/EQ.

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post #27966 of 27981 Old 02-18-2017, 07:03 AM
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Your room is a smaller version of mine. I think the front & back walls will work for you.


These are dual opposed so not firing towards the screen. @Schrodinger23 I think worse case you would just need to turn the F25 sideways pointing at the side wall instead of the screen like you described.

There are many layouts that can work, just be prepared to experiment and measure. I have found that sidewalls is often best for 2 subs but sometimes front and back midwall is better. Sometimes catacorner.

I try to stay out of the corners if possible. This allows you to add bass trapping in the corners if so desired. Some believe that 4 sub in the corners eliminates the need for bass trapping but I am not in that camp. 4 subs will smooth FR but there is still decay. Knowing your SQ goals, I think you are going to want to keep decay to a minimum.

So please set aside $100 for a UMIK-1 to be able to utilize Room EQ Wizard. It's an invaluable tool that no enthusiast should be without, IMHO.

Thanks. That is good news that the F25 will work sideways behind the acoustically transparent screen. That was the way I would want to use it since it will minimize the distance from the screen to the front wall.

In terms of experimenting I am pretty limited in this small space. I would either be able to do front and back midpoints with 2 subs (or sliding the front sub along front wall and mirroring it in back, but I doubt this would be better) or 4 subs in the 4 corners. Maybe I can wire for both in case. The only difficulty that is if I go with 2 x F25s, the freight shipping one way is about $300. That is a tough proposition to ship it back and then get 4 smaller subs. If the performance was terrible I guess I would, but I would have a sealed rectangular room, so I should get excellent results because Harmon researched such rooms.

I will definitely do sound treatments. And corner traps will definitely be used to help with the decay times.
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post #27967 of 27981 Old 02-18-2017, 07:11 AM
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Originally Posted by citsur86 View Post
I've definitely had to learn when to call it quits with REW. The idea of measured or scientific response vs perceived response is important in not obsessing. I'd be lying if I said I didn't break out the mic and take some measurements every so often though.
I plan to get a mike and mess around with REW at some point. But, my personality might be close to yours, where I could obsess about it for years and squeeze out all of the happiness that can be had in our hobby. If I do get a mike it would only be to check waterfalls for even decay to sort out room treatments. Not doing this alone, but taking with the experts at some of the reputable companies and putting them where they suggest in the room, measuring and being done with that as long as I get the results they say I should get. If not, sending them the plots and asking for suggestions.

For the bulk of the EQ I will just let Audyssey or Dirac handle it. The only thing I might mess with is the house curve with a slight rise in the bass.
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post #27968 of 27981 Old 02-18-2017, 01:16 PM
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@Schrodinger23 , you might not know that you can upgrade the 2 drivers in the F25 to the one used in the FV15hp right? Not sure if it makes a difference but just want to throw it out there in case you don't know.
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post #27969 of 27981 Old 02-18-2017, 02:26 PM
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@Schrodinger23 , you might not know that you can upgrade the 2 drivers in the F25 to the one used in the FV15hp right? Not sure if it makes a difference but just want to throw it out there in case you don't know.
I was informed there is no point to get the F25 with DS1510 drivers because the amp on the F25 only delivers 400 watts per driver and the DS1510 is designed for 600 watts. Maybe the new HX1000XLR3 amp coming soon will be a better fit.
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post #27970 of 27981 Old 02-18-2017, 05:35 PM
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I was informed there is no point to get the F25 with DS1510 drivers because the amp on the F25 only delivers 400 watts per driver and the DS1510 is designed for 600 watts. Maybe the new HX1000XLR3 amp coming soon will be a better fit.
So the new HX1000XLR3 will be released in some of the upcoming subs from Rythmik? And maybe this would be an option in the F25 with the DS1510 drivers?

I guess this should be called a F25HP.
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post #27971 of 27981 Old 02-18-2017, 07:22 PM
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So the new HX1000XLR3 will be released in some of the upcoming subs from Rythmik? And maybe this would be an option in the F25 with the DS1510 drivers?

I guess this should be called a F25HP.
Sounds right if they decide to make it. Unsure if the new amps are the same size as the current amps. Back in October they announced the FV18 is HX1000XLR3 (1000 watts Hypex amp) and the FV25HP is HX2000XLR3 (2000 watts Hypex amp). In November they mentioned there will be a F18HP, no word on anything else yet.

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post #27972 of 27981 Old Yesterday, 02:18 AM
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F28 was announced as well. I wonder what the holdup is?

Brian hasn't posted here in quite some time and Enrico is posting pictures of Magico speakers yet not discussing subs originally set for release early Q4 2016.
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post #27973 of 27981 Old Yesterday, 03:32 AM
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First of all thank you for the incredible detailed information you give on your journey to get the F12s sounding just right. It sounds like you got them dialed in perfectly and are enjoying them very much. Just a couple question for you, first, I noticed you have a Yamaha as well, and mentioned the Extra Bass feature. Do you use this feature? I currently do, and I think it gives the music a little more fullness and more bass of course. I don't know how accurate it is but it sounds good when it's on for most music. What kind of switch device do you use between the preamp/receiver?
I am limited as far as speaker placement and sub woofer placement in my room. I do use my sub for movies and music. I currently have my crossover in my receiver set to 60hz and the main speakers set to small. This seems to give me the best sound. You mention getting a mic and some measurement software to see what's going on. This is probably a good idea, I currently am not well versed with this type of thing or how to start but it seems like it would be beneficial to learn. Thanks again Norixone, very informative! And no, I am not going to touch the PEQ on the back of the Rythmik
Sorry for not replyig earlier, but I have been away for awhile on a business trip. I do use the extra bass function as it is the only way to get bass to the subs if not using bass management. For some reason, with bass management I was never able to achieve proper integration between subs and mains. For music purpose I also have the subs playing in stereo, while for movies they are set as 1.
As per the switching device, I am using 1 of these https://www.amazon.co.uk/HQ-3-Way-St...=hq+rca+switch
If you bass manage your speakers you will not need to use extra bass.
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post #27974 of 27981 Old Yesterday, 03:36 AM
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Yes, but that doesn't mean there is no DSP employed. While an analog crossover can be implemented, I'm not sure about PEQ, and pretty sure that delay/phase is done digitally.

Yes, Servo is complimentary to Room EQ DSP, but that is just one type of DSP.
The Rythmik subs do not make use of digital circuits. Phase, crossover, etc. are all set in the analog domain quite old fashion school, but works well as they have a very low Q which, according to Brian, can be kept under control through its servo system, which happens to be also analog. As other have pointed out using DSP or an analogue approach to correct overhang are equaly optimal, each having their pros and cons.
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post #27975 of 27981 Old Yesterday, 04:34 AM
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Originally Posted by rcohen View Post
To me the difference with REW is that you actually accomplish stuff with tweaking, rather than going in circles chasing your shifting perception. I agree it's about sounding good, not achieving an ideal graph. The graph just helps you see what you're doing.
Totally agree on this one.
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post #27976 of 27981 Old Yesterday, 09:46 AM
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To me the difference with REW is that you actually accomplish stuff with tweaking, rather than going in circles chasing your shifting perception. I agree it's about sounding good, not achieving an ideal graph. The graph just helps you see what you're doing.
Totally agree on this one.
+1, measurements tell you if something is wrong like big peaks or dips/nulls or poor integration between subs/speakers. It can't tell you what target curve you prefer or which crossover settings you prefer (it can only tell what to avoid and what issues if any to fix.

That being said it's better to know nothing is way off objectively speaking and measurements are perfect for that.
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post #27977 of 27981 Old Yesterday, 04:05 PM
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I posed this question in the Pioneer SC-81 thread, but there typically is not too much going on there. Anyways, I still can't access my MCACC menu on screen which is fine. However, now I'm having an issue with my speaker setting. Somehow the fronts were set to large, I can't change them back to small. It's not letting me make any changes. I love the sound, but I'm so over Pioneer. I was hoping I could keep this receiver for at least a year or two longer in order to pick up a second LVX12, but I may just have to bite the bullet and pick up a new AVR instead. Probably a Yamaha or possibly Marantz.

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post #27978 of 27981 Old Yesterday, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Norixone View Post
The Rythmik subs do not make use of digital circuits. Phase, crossover, etc. are all set in the analog domain quite old fashion school, but works well as they have a very low Q which, according to Brian, can be kept under control through its servo system, which happens to be also analog. As other have pointed out using DSP or an analogue approach to correct overhang are equaly optimal, each having their pros and cons.
Thanks for clarifying.
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post #27979 of 27981 Old Yesterday, 07:41 PM
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Sounds right if they decide to make it. Unsure if the new amps are the same size as the current amps. Back in October they announced the FV18 is HX1000XLR3 (1000 watts Hypex amp) and the FV25HP is HX2000XLR3 (2000 watts Hypex amp). In November they mentioned there will be a F18HP, no word on anything else yet.
Brian did post over on the ascend forms a graph of the F18HP. If we can see the graphs I would say there is at least a good chance we will see it. Second to last post on this page:

http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/sho...o-Ryhmik/page5
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post #27980 of 27981 Old Yesterday, 11:28 PM
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I'm sure we will see it, the question is when(?).
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post #27981 of 27981 Old Today, 03:00 AM
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I'm sure we will see it, the question is when(?).
I thought the word was that the new stuff was coming in March or April (I forget which). They did just move locations as well if I remember correctly.

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