Official Rythmik Audio Subwoofer thread - Page 940 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #28171 of 28547 Old 03-09-2017, 07:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Skylinestar View Post
That means you will be applying the wrong Audyssey correction. I've tried it before & ended up with terrible graph.
So I'm waiting on 2 l22s to arrive and I have audyssey xt32. My room is 1600cu ft and sealed. How should I be running the setup? Thanks

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post #28172 of 28547 Old 03-09-2017, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by rcohen View Post
I used to have a DD15, and switched to Rythmik. I really appreciate Rythmik's configurable high pass filter settings, which go beyond what the DD15 offered. Also, I really appreciate how I could sell my DD15 and buy multiple Rythmik subs with the funds.

After switching to Audyssey XT32, and now Dirac, the DSP in the DD15 was redundant.

Coming from the DD15, I preferred the sealed Rythmiks over the ported ones. Perhaps the Rythmiks sound cleaner. I the DD15 is more powerful than a single F15HP, though.
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M10x1.50. I bought a 25MM length socket cap bolts from Home Depot. 2 things to note:
1) The head size of a normal bolt is a very tight fit inside the rubber foot. Hard to get a wrench on it.
2) You will need to drill the SVS feet hole to fit the M10 bolt thru it.
Cool. I ordered some hex round head bolts. I will drill out the feet as you suggested. I will test for fit on the bolt head too. Thanks for the quick info.

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post #28173 of 28547 Old 03-10-2017, 04:09 PM
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I ended up setting my 2 l22s up today with my denon x3300. Seems like when I had just 1 setup it sounded better and felt like it hit harder. I use the accountant sniper rifle seen 1:40:50 to test impact. Could adding the second sub cancel our the first? Any help is appreciated.

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post #28174 of 28547 Old 03-10-2017, 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted by trp3383 View Post
I ended up setting my 2 l22s up today with my denon x3300. Seems like when I had just 1 setup it sounded better and felt like it hit harder. I use the accountant sniper rifle seen 1:40:50 to test impact. Could adding the second sub cancel our the first? Any help is appreciated.

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Sounds like a phase issue. How did you go about setting the subs up? Which inputs are you using on the subs (LFE/LineIn)? Where are the subs located relative to the listening position?
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post #28175 of 28547 Old 03-10-2017, 04:31 PM
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Sounds like a phase issue. How did you go about setting the subs up? Which inputs are you using on the subs (LFE/LineIn)? Where are the subs located relative to the listening position?
Using life in, i thought the xt32 ht took care of setting up dual subs. There on either side of the tv stand, only place for them.

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post #28176 of 28547 Old 03-10-2017, 04:34 PM
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Originally Posted by trp3383 View Post
Using life in, i thought the xt32 ht took care of setting up dual subs. There on either side of the tv stand, only place for them.

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Your response wasn't clear -- LFE or LINE in?
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post #28177 of 28547 Old 03-10-2017, 04:35 PM
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Lol damn auto correct. Lfe

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post #28178 of 28547 Old 03-10-2017, 05:10 PM
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Originally Posted by trp3383 View Post
Lol damn auto correct. Lfe

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What is the sub trim set when both subs are in mix? Maybe Audyssey set the trim too low and you need to bump it up.

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post #28179 of 28547 Old 03-10-2017, 05:57 PM
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What is the sub trim set when both subs are in mix? Maybe Audyssey set the trim too low and you need to bump it up.
It set them at -12 and I bumped them up to -3 and still seems weak

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post #28180 of 28547 Old 03-10-2017, 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by trp3383 View Post
It set them at -12 and I bumped them up to -3 and still seems weak

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Try to get the sub trim after audyssey to be no lower than -11. -12 is the limit. Audyssey should be taking care of any phase issues so it shouldn't be that.

Maybe the second spot for the sub is a bad spot? IDK.

Hope you get it figured out. Good luck.
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post #28181 of 28547 Old 03-10-2017, 07:42 PM
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Originally Posted by trp3383 View Post
I ended up setting my 2 l22s up today with my denon x3300. Seems like when I had just 1 setup it sounded better and felt like it hit harder. I use the accountant sniper rifle seen 1:40:50 to test impact. Could adding the second sub cancel our the first? Any help is appreciated.

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just to rule out a placement problem i would put both subs right next to each other and re-run your test. to me it sounds like a phasing issue, but there should be a massive gain going from 1 to 2.

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post #28182 of 28547 Old 03-10-2017, 08:29 PM
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Originally Posted by trp3383 View Post
It set them at -12 and I bumped them up to -3 and still seems weak
Yes, Audyssey should be setting the distances independently to avoid phase cancellations. However,
-12 means the Audyssey mic clipped. You need to turn the gain on the subs down and rerun until you get something between -11.5 and -9, then bump the level up.


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just to rule out a placement problem i would put both subs right next to each other and re-run your test. to me it sounds like a phasing issue, but there should be a massive gain going from 1 to 2.
This is a good test if you still have problems once the Audyssey mic is not clipping.
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post #28183 of 28547 Old 03-10-2017, 09:57 PM
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Another thing you can try is using LINE IN instead of LFE IN and fine tune the delay/phase in one of the subwoofers. Increase the delay/phase on one subwoofer until you get more bass at the MLP.
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post #28184 of 28547 Old 03-11-2017, 12:00 AM
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Originally Posted by bear123 View Post
Concerning accuracy, articulation, speed, overhang, etc, some of these are somewhat "made-up" adjectives regarding subs. If you are after good sound quality, the answer is any well designed sub, ported or sealed, and properly integrating two of them into ones room with ones system. In the end, that is what determines sound quality.(Assuming you are starting with a decent quality sub). Overhang, by which I assume you mean ringing, is an actual and measurable trait. This will not be an issue in any well designed sub. However, interaction with the room is what will greatly determine ringing, even in a sub that has no ringing issues when measured in a field. Ported subs normally(always?) have some ringing around port tune, but you don't "hear" ringing at 17 Hz, especially since music doesn't realistically have much if any content that low.
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Hey bear, the speed (phase delay) is a real issue. If you look at the Databass JTR cap 1400 measurement specifically on spectrogram, it measures the energy "dispersion" (very similar to the optical dispersion) of bass signal. The red color represents the highest density/concentration of the energy. The y axis represents delay. Ideally, we want to see the red bar to be perfectly horizontal. But you can see the plot for cap 1400 almost looks like a caterpillar. The lower end is off the other frequency range by as much as 100ms? How much is 100ms, that is about tthe time that I need to adjust my set top box so that the voice and video match (or lip sync'ed). It is not insignificant. In addition, you will only see lower bass being delayed. You will not see lower bass being ahead of other frequencies. It is mathematically impossible. So our hearing hunch is correct. You will never hear someone says this bass is just too fast. Of course, this is just one reason some ported subs sound slower. Other reasons include the memory effect. But more importantly, the low bass delay shown in spectrogram is directly related to "overhang". This can be mathematically proved. So two of the four terms you mentioned indeed exist. The other two are more subjective. But again, some people understand and others take longer to learn.

A lot members here only focus on "rumbles". But rumble is static, meaning the signal is a steady state signal. But startling effect, which is another real fun of movies, is about dynamic characteristics of movie sound effects. I think what Bruce has described is exactly about this.
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What you observed is correct. The decay time of ringing is related to Q value. The effect becomes more prominent above Q=0.9. It is also peceived as boomy bass (or more full body bass) because the ringing lasts longer. But why do we put in Q value of 1.1 there in low damping? Because that is the Q value required to make the frequency response look more like a step. Lower Q will look like it has less bass extension on the frequency reponse curve.
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that explains why mid/Q of 0.9 is preferable to me... it has just the right amount of ringing to work for both movies and music
In the 2.5 years that I have known about Rythmik subwoofers I have been learning all I can about them. Though I am far from an expert, I have to admit that the flexibility of the control options is very appealing to the engineer and tinkerer in me. I stumbled onto this interesting exchange in a recent search.

I took a look the data-bass reviews for the FV15HP, JTR Cap 1400, and PSA XV30SE (long out of production, BASH). It is amazing that the FV15HP is likely still the top production ported 15" (surpassed only by the 15.5" SVS PB16? I digress). A lifetime achievement award may be in order. Amidst releases of new subs by SVS, PSA, and JTR, while I am impatient I am still enthusiastic about the upcoming Rythmik models. I believe they will be well worth the wait and the price tag. I will not be surprised if Brian can deliver more for your buck than even JTR! This is a great day and age to be in the market for subwoofers. Rythmik, JTR, PSA, DSS, Seaton Sound, and Funk all seem to be hitting their strides!

Based on Brian's comments about caterpillar shaped spectrograms, overhang, and damping/Q I have developed several hypotheses. That 1-port mode should be the mode of choice for most FV15HP users. Does anyone use 2-port mode? Is port noise an issue in either mode? Does anyone go through the trouble of changing modes for movies vs music? That low damping/high Q may restore some movie impact that may appear to be lean in a head-to-head comprison, like @Cain 's F25s vs PSA S3000s. And, that the ported Rythmiks are likely the best compromise (from any vendor) for both movie and music. I can't wait for the FV18 and FV25 sightings to start trickling in!

@Cain I am hoping you can experiment with the F25 amplifier settings and report back. I'd like to add one more sealed sub to my room and it will likely be the F25 or another S3000i if at all possible (bass traps and treatments come first, scheduled to get our taxes done next week). I am also anxiously awaiting @wakeoftheflood 's comparison of dual F25s to dual S3000s.

The great news is that I connected with @kyzer soze and will have a chance to hear his FV15HP soon! I will finally be able experience Rythmik in the wild.
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post #28185 of 28547 Old 03-11-2017, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
Yes, Audyssey should be setting the distances independently to avoid phase cancellations. However,
-12 means the Audyssey mic clipped. You need to turn the gain on the subs down and rerun until you get something between -11.5 and -9, then bump the level up.



This is a good test if you still have problems once the Audyssey mic is not clipping.
I ended up re running audyssey to get both subs to -11. I ended up bumping them up to -3 and the bass is much better. Thanks

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post #28186 of 28547 Old 03-11-2017, 11:43 AM
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I ended up re running audyssey to get both subs to -11. I ended up bumping them up to -3 and the bass is much better. Thanks

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Great news!
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post #28187 of 28547 Old 03-11-2017, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
I'd like to add one more sealed sub to my room and it will likely be the F25 or another S3000i if at all possible (bass traps and treatments come first, scheduled to get our taxes done next week).
You need/want more sub?
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Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
I will not be surprised if Brian can deliver more for your buck than even JTR!.
I think Rythmik makes a fantastic sub for the price point. However, I'm not so sure with the newest models given the hefty price increases from the current offerings. They're going to be directly competitive with JTR's higher end models and JTR (to me) is a notch above--if only in raw output (of course that's not the end all measuring stick). The rythmik's are so responsive, and it's not something I want to give up.

I finally have all of the wiring done in my new home theater space, putting up the drywall as I write this, so it gets me wondering about these things!





My dual 15's are amazing in the small room I have setup (which is probably overkill for most people, but I have an addiction okay?), but I wonder how much the output will drop going from an ~8x10 room to a ~12x22 setup. I'm torn between grabbing more 15's or stepping it up and grabbing a ported dual 18 jtr (rythimk, y u no offer one?!). time will tell!
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post #28189 of 28547 Old 03-12-2017, 01:52 AM
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The preliminary numbers indicate that the FV25HP will be competitive with the Cap 2400 ULF. Given the 2400s awkward form factor I think the FV25HP will be a huge success. I expect the FV18HP to compete with the Cap 1400. JTR will rarely lose a drag race on paper. But if Rythmik can produce superior SQ, game on!

It seems that the overseas cabinet and component production may be a negative for Rythmik of late as US supplied Speakerpower sub vendors have been quicker to get their newer offerings to market. Rythmik's and HSU's catalogs have not changed significantly for a long time.

Has anyone been able to pre-order a new Rythmik sub yet?
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post #28190 of 28547 Old 03-12-2017, 03:05 AM
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Originally Posted by tvuong View Post
You need/want more sub?
@tvuong , I am going throw aesthetics to the wind and bring two of my subs closer to the MLP (within 4 feet, blocking a french door in the process). Trying this will be much cheaper than another sub. We will see how it turns out.

If the F25 didn't require freight shipping I would have bought one and compared it with the S3000i head-to-head (and probably kept both ). But, that return freight is a killer. Tom V. has been very smart IMO in regards to keeping size and weight in check vs chasing JTR's numbers and larger cabinets. The fact that I had back problems made the initial decision to go PSA easier (along with great pricing as a repeat customer).
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@serith -- Hope you are floating the drywall as you hang it. I used Kinetics Iso-Max clips.

http://www.kineticsnoise.com/

http://www.kineticsnoise.com/arch/isomax.html
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@serith -- Hope you are floating the drywall as you hang it. I used Kinetics Iso-Max clips.

http://www.kineticsnoise.com/

http://www.kineticsnoise.com/arch/isomax.html
eh, no real need being single (there's no one to annoy besides the cats lol).

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I don't know if this is a Placido or not but after getting my FV15HP amp back from repair the bass is so tight and violent, Maybe my amp was that messed up? Who knows. I'm back with the LFE over LINE-IN since I've come to notice the difference in films especially now that i can see what's coded into the LFE channel.

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Originally Posted by MrGrey View Post
I don't know if this is a Placido or not but after getting my FV15HP amp back from repair the bass is so tight and violent, Maybe my amp was that messed up? Who knows. I'm back with the LFE over LINE-IN since I've come to notice the difference in films especially now that i can see what's coded into the LFE channel.

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if i don't turn the system on for a few days i usually always get the sense of "holy ****" the next time i use it--similar with a quick car you haven't driven in a while. but if you use it all the time the feeling wears off.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post

Based on Brian's comments about caterpillar shaped spectrograms, overhang, and damping/Q I have developed several hypotheses. That 1-port mode should be the mode of choice for most FV15HP users. Does anyone use 2-port mode? Is port noise an issue in either mode? Does anyone go through the trouble of changing modes for movies vs music? That low damping/high Q may restore some movie impact that may appear to be lean in a head-to-head comparison, like @Cain 's F25s vs PSA S3000s. And, that the ported Rythmiks are likely the best compromise (from any vendor) for both movie and music. I can't wait for the FV18 and FV25 sightings to start trickling in!

@Cain I am hoping you can experiment with the F25 amplifier settings and report back. I'd like to add one more sealed sub to my room and it will likely be the F25 or another S3000i if at all possible (bass traps and treatments come first, scheduled to get our taxes done next week). I am also anxiously awaiting @wakeoftheflood 's comparison of dual F25s to dual S3000s.

The great news is that I connected with @kyzer soze and will have a chance to hear his FV15HP soon! I will finally be able experience Rythmik in the wild.

Hi Marc Alexander @Marc Alexander

I tried 20Hz/Low and it made a significant difference in my F25. Definitely made the bass stronger, more prevalent for movies, but also "slower" and it seems to hang on bassy scenes.

Overall I don't like it much. Next I'm trying 14Hz/L and Hi. Stay tuned.
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Question, I have my l22s placed on either side of my tv stand doubling as speaker stands in my L shaped room. One is directly in a corner and the other has plenty of open space next to it. When I level matched them before running audyssey, the one in the corner had it's gain at around 9-10 o'clock. The other is at 12 o'clock. When I'm playing a hard hitting movie at -15db, the drivers on the corner loaded sub are moving alot less than the other sub. I'm guessing this is due to level matching and the room gain from corner loading. Would it be better in my room to gain match the 2?



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post #28197 of 28547 Old 03-12-2017, 08:28 PM
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Hi Marc Alexander @Marc Alexander

I tried 20Hz/Low and it made a significant difference in my F25. Definitely made the bass stronger, more prevalent for movies, but also "slower" and it seems to hang on bassy scenes.

Overall I don't like it much. Next I'm trying 14Hz/L and Hi. Stay tuned.
I'm pretty sure you are going to like 14Hz/Hi better. That's my preferred setting for everything.
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post #28198 of 28547 Old 03-13-2017, 11:33 AM
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^^^ Ditto for me. Deep and tight...
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"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #28199 of 28547 Old 03-13-2017, 11:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trp3383 View Post
Question, I have my l22s placed on either side of my tv stand doubling as speaker stands in my L shaped room. One is directly in a corner and the other has plenty of open space next to it. When I level matched them before running audyssey, the one in the corner had it's gain at around 9-10 o'clock. The other is at 12 o'clock. When I'm playing a hard hitting movie at -15db, the drivers on the corner loaded sub are moving alot less than the other sub. I'm guessing this is due to level matching and the room gain from corner loading. Would it be better in my room to gain match the 2?

<pix elided>

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Easiest thing is to just try it and see. If the levels are widely disparate you might not be able to get them completely gain matched without running out of trim range but try and see. OTOH if they are OK now why worry? The one in the corner has more output (corner loading = more bass) so will naturally be working less no matter how you set the gains. Gain matching attempts to maximize overall system dynamic range but may be at the cost of dynamic range in the individual subs, at least as I understand it (I do not claim to be an expert -- there are threads about it).

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post #28200 of 28547 Old 03-13-2017, 11:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trp3383 View Post
Question, I have my l22s placed on either side of my tv stand doubling as speaker stands in my L shaped room. One is directly in a corner and the other has plenty of open space next to it. When I level matched them before running audyssey, the one in the corner had it's gain at around 9-10 o'clock. The other is at 12 o'clock. When I'm playing a hard hitting movie at -15db, the drivers on the corner loaded sub are moving alot less than the other sub. I'm guessing this is due to level matching and the room gain from corner loading. Would it be better in my room to gain match the 2?



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acoustically if it were me and (all possible) I would move your set up lengthwise... that 11 foot wall would be more appealing from a sound stage perspective...
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