Official Rythmik Audio Subwoofer thread - Page 955 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #28621 of 30687 Old 04-25-2017, 05:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Davecraze View Post
Will check it out. The PSA V1500s are both near field (almost very near field - I almost sit on top of them), so I get pretty good tactile response right now. I am sure that can be improved with some dedicated MBMs.
Going to sealed will reduce Tactile sensation. 3 L22's are not going to have the output of dual V1500 around port tune. If you want sealed and do not want to loose low end, dual F25's are in order.
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post #28622 of 30687 Old 04-25-2017, 07:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Matt2026 View Post

My inclination is to think MDF "could" be better for sub encosure as it seems like it is a naturally more "dead" material but could entirely just be a figment of my imagination Never got the urge to do my own speaker cabinets, maybe in part because I don't have much of a working space

Matt, it is not imagination. MDF advantage includes:
1) weight load. People add lead shots to their front speakers to increase stability. Why take the weight down on subwoofer? To save shipping?
2) MDF is more dimensionally stable. If one does woodwork, he will know you cannot just put glue between woods or plywood and expect no crack in the longer term. This is because wood is natural and is sensitive to humidity and. All sorts of joint methods have been studied in woodwork books. Adding bracing in plywood is particularly difficult. For MDF, we can add grooves to make it dimensionally accurate.
3) MDF has higher internal damping. Birch has much less internal damping. This is so-called low Q vs high-Q debate over a few decades now. If we already design a subwoofer capable of delivery low Q fast transient sound, why use a less internal damping wood material to add Q value? When I looked for a strong material of my cylinder sub project, I found a supplier in Los Angles selling Birth Plywood cynlinder shells. Guess what is used for? Drums... If you want to use something in music instruments, you don't want reduced damping. In fact, you want the opposite.
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post #28623 of 30687 Old 04-25-2017, 09:07 AM
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Speaking of subwoofer weight, I just checked the UPS tracking info for my two FV18s and saw that their combined shipping weight was 400 pounds. Yikes! They are supposed to be delivered today so I have my game face on while awaiting delivery. The FV18s are so humongous, I have lined up a moving company to bring them inside from my garage, where I will have UPS deliver them. I also plan to have the movers unbox them and place them in the approximate position where they will stand in my AV setup. Fortunately, they shipped with movers blankets for hardwood floors so scooting them around should be at least manageable.
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HT setup: Sony 75XBR X940D UHD HDR TV; Kaleidescape Strato Movie Server 6 TB; Yamaha RX-A3060 AV receiver; Sonamp 2-1 2channel 100W power amp; Crestron Control System; 2 Rythmik FV18 subwoofers, 6 Hsu HB-1 Bookshelf speakers, 1 Hsu HC-1 Center speaker, 4 Focal ICW8 in-ceiling Atmos speakers; Oppo UDP-203 4K HDR BD player; Mac Mini HTPC. TiVO Bolt 1TB DVR; TiVo Premiere Elite 2 TB DVR; Roku Premiere+
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post #28624 of 30687 Old 04-25-2017, 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by gwsat View Post
Speaking of subwoofer weight, I just checked the UPS tracking info for my two FV18s and saw that their combined shipping weight was 400 pounds. Yikes! They are supposed to be delivered today so I have my game face on while awaiting delivery. The FV18s are so humongous, I have lined up a moving company to bring them inside from my garage, where I will have UPS deliver them. I also plan to have the movers unbox them and place them in the approximate position where they will stand in my AV setup. Fortunately, they shipped with movers blankets for hardwood floors so scooting them around should be at least manageable.
Yeah, I had to buy one of those straps that movers use to carry things like washers and fridges when I took delivery of my F25's, which are very close in size to the FV18's. The strap worked great with two people. I was able to get them out of the boxes by myself fairly easily.

https://www.amazon.com/Shoulder-Doll...s=moving+strap

7.2.4 Setup | Display: Panasonic TC-P65VT50 plasma | Blu-ray: Oppo UDP-203 | Processor: Anthem AVM60 | Amps: Outlaw 7700, Emotiva XPA-5 Gen 2 | Speakers: Paradigm Prestige (2) 95F's, 55C, (4) 15B's, (4) CI-Elite E65-R (Atmos) | Subs: (2) Rythmik F25's
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post #28625 of 30687 Old 04-25-2017, 09:28 AM
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^^^ I almost broke my back unloading my second FV15HP out of my truck by myself. Foolish decision, but I was home alone at the time and determined to get that sucker inside and unboxed.

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post #28626 of 30687 Old 04-25-2017, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by JT78681 View Post
^^^ I almost broke my back unloading my second FV15HP out of my truck by myself. Foolish decision, but I was home alone at the time and determined to get that sucker inside and unboxed.
I am far too long in the tooth to have seriously considered trying to get my FV18s setup without the aid of some professional muscle. It will be money well spent. The sheer size and weight of modern high end subs is incredible! Before I settled on getting two FV18s, I had considered buying a JTR 4000ULF. It is the mother of all subwoofers but its size and weight made me change my mind: 41″ x 20.5″ x 39.5″, 265 pounds. By comparison it makes an FV18 seem positively tiny.

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post #28627 of 30687 Old 04-25-2017, 10:53 AM
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Mini Male XLR Adapter

Could someone verify if these adapters would work with the F8 ?


https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06XR4YFQC...6AQF81OE&psc=1


I would like to be able to use standard XLR cables but not sure if the "tapered" mini end of the adapter would fit the mini XLR plug on the F8 amp. I think perhaps the adapter is used primarily for linking up two cables.

Sean
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post #28628 of 30687 Old 04-25-2017, 11:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gopala33 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by torii View Post
who needs subs when towers get you this? not a bragging statement, just a statement...
i need radio shack where to buy
amazon.com unable to get
If you still haven't gotten the rca y cable, I recommend the kabeldirekt brand on Amazon. It is very easy to attach to AVR and sub connectors and is not too rigid or heavy. I've tried more heavy duty looking cables from Mediabridge and Monoprice and not only do they require more force to attach/remove, the added weight and rigidness put more strain on the connectors of my equipment and are more likely to bend/twist the connectors if you are not careful and also if the back of the cable/sub is near a wall.

I follow the same approach for hdmi cables too, which is why I have some Monoprice redmere (active) ultra slim hdmi cables in 15' lengths. Basic passive ones that are relatively thin and flexible also work, but I've had issues with the thicker, more rigid ones.
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post #28629 of 30687 Old 04-25-2017, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Davecraze View Post
The PSA subs would be replaced with three L22s.

I could also maybe one L22 and one F25 (I have more space in the nearfield location behind one seating area). I feel that three L22s may be better than one L22 and one F25, but I have no personal knowledge to back that up.
In a sealed rectangular shaped room it is best to stick with either 2 or 4 subwoofers to get the smallest seat to seat variation and reducing the big nulls and peaks. If your room is irregularly shaped or you have an open floor plan then you might be able to get 3 to work well, but you need measuring equipment and software. And even then you still might not get as good as a result as just going with 2. If you have an open floor plan, then you might want to reconsider the L22s. Your PSA subs or a larger ported Rythmik subwoofer would likely be in order in that case.

I was surprised when I looked back at Harmon's research on multiple subwoofer placement. I had read through it many times before, but I missed an important point. If you have two subwoofers placed at midpoints of opposing walls, then you get the best seat to seat variation, except having four subwoofers each a midpoint. In that case you get slightly better seat to seat variation, but at the expense of output. Also, Nobody wants to be tripping over subs with them placed like that.
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post #28630 of 30687 Old 04-25-2017, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Schrodinger23 View Post
In a sealed rectangular shaped room it is best to stick with either 2 or 4 subwoofers to get the smallest seat to seat variation and reducing the big nulls and peaks. If your room is irregularly shaped or you have an open floor plan then you might be able to get 3 to work well, but you need measuring equipment and software. And even then you still might not get as good as a result as just going with 2. If you have an open floor plan, then you might want to reconsider the L22s. Your PSA subs or a larger ported Rythmik subwoofer would likely be in order in that case.

I was surprised when I looked back at Harmon's research on multiple subwoofer placement. I had read through it many times before, but I missed an important point. If you have two subwoofers placed at midpoints of opposing walls, then you get the best seat to seat variation, except having four subwoofers each a midpoint. In that case you get slightly better seat to seat variation, but at the expense of output. Also, Nobody wants to be tripping over subs with them placed like that.
Thank you for the information - will concentrate on 2 vs 3. I do have a sealed and rectangular shaped room. I have two rows of seating and the only placement choices are immediately to the left of each of the seating areas (between seats and the wall) or that same placement for the front row and directly behind the seating second row in an alcove (this is where I had the orbit shifter). Cannot put the second sub in the middle of the right wall due to a walkway aisle and I will not put subs upfront for aesthetic reasons, despite that they may perform better up there. I just need to make the locations that I have work and I only have 17 inches of depth on the sides of the seating but I have a 42 X 40 X 40 alcove behind the rear row that can fit just about any commercial sub.
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post #28631 of 30687 Old 04-25-2017, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by stash64 View Post
Could someone verify if these adapters would work with the F8 ?


https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06XR4YFQC...6AQF81OE&psc=1


I would like to be able to use standard XLR cables but not sure if the "tapered" mini end of the adapter would fit the mini XLR plug on the F8 amp. I think perhaps the adapter is used primarily for linking up two cables.
That adapter won't work. This is the one you need:

http://btpa.com/MIC17-XX.html



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Media Room: Ascend Acoustics Sierra Towers w/ RAAL, Horizon w/ RAAL, Sierra 2s & Lunas | Rythmik F12SE (x2) | Emotiva XMC-1 | Emotiva XPA-3 & XPA-200 | Oppo 105D | Bluesound Node 2 | Sony HW40ES |
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post #28632 of 30687 Old 04-25-2017, 01:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schrodinger23 View Post
In a sealed rectangular shaped room it is best to stick with either 2 or 4 subwoofers to get the smallest seat to seat variation and reducing the big nulls and peaks. If your room is irregularly shaped or you have an open floor plan then you might be able to get 3 to work well, but you need measuring equipment and software. And even then you still might not get as good as a result as just going with 2. If you have an open floor plan, then you might want to reconsider the L22s. Your PSA subs or a larger ported Rythmik subwoofer would likely be in order in that case.

I was surprised when I looked back at Harmon's research on multiple subwoofer placement. I had read through it many times before, but I missed an important point. If you have two subwoofers placed at midpoints of opposing walls, then you get the best seat to seat variation, except having four subwoofers each a midpoint. In that case you get slightly better seat to seat variation, but at the expense of output. Also, Nobody wants to be tripping over subs with them placed like that.
But, when co-locating subs (like behind single couch) treat them as a single sub as far the research cited above goes.

3 subwoofers (see Geddes) can be quite effective. To say otherwise is simply based on the quoted research and not real world experience. Home Theaters cannot be enjoyed on paper.
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post #28633 of 30687 Old 04-25-2017, 04:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
But, when co-locating subs (like behind single couch) treat them as a single sub as far the research cited above goes)
I see. I didn't know he was planning to co-locate them.

I don't know...if I wanted the extra output and not better seat to seat variation, then I would just get one big massive sub for the job. Having three co-located means that you have to level match them all.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
3 subwoofers (see Geddes) can be quite effective. To say otherwise is simply based on the quoted research and not real world experience. Home Theaters cannot be enjoyed on paper.
I've seen his approach. It sounds like too much messing around setting them up. Also, the third one from what I remember is supposed to be at a different height. Even in a dedicated room that is a tough sell. Harmon did measure odd numbers of subs, but they were all assumed to be placed on the floor, I would imagine. While the Geddes approach will work, I still think that the seat to seat variation will not surpass 2 or 4 subs in a sealed rectangular room. Harmon was measuring seat to seat variation somewhere between 1 and 2 subs when you do 3 in a sealed rectangular space. Again, maybe some of that can be fixed with raising one of them off of the floor and lots and lots of tinkering and measuring. But I would prefer simplicity and predictability. I'm planning to put up a couple walls in my basement, so that I know where the subs need to go in advance. I shouldn't have surprises. Plus it makes placement of room treatments known in advance.
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post #28634 of 30687 Old 04-25-2017, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Davecraze View Post
Thank you for the information - will concentrate on 2 vs 3. I do have a sealed and rectangular shaped room. I have two rows of seating and the only placement choices are immediately to the left of each of the seating areas (between seats and the wall) or that same placement for the front row and directly behind the seating second row in an alcove (this is where I had the orbit shifter). Cannot put the second sub in the middle of the right wall due to a walkway aisle and I will not put subs upfront for aesthetic reasons, despite that they may perform better up there. I just need to make the locations that I have work and I only have 17 inches of depth on the sides of the seating but I have a 42 X 40 X 40 alcove behind the rear row that can fit just about any commercial sub.
If you can't optially locate them, then you can leave the phase of one set at zero on one sub and play with the phase on the other to get the best seat to seat variation. This could be a lot of measuring. I think if you pick up a reciever with Audyssey MultiEQ XT 32, it will do this in an automated fashion though. That might be definitely worth the extra little money in the time you might save.

Or Anthem, if you have a healthy budget, can run real time graphical sweeps where you could again play with the phase while trying to get the most even seat to seat response. This is still likely time consuming because you only have one microphone that you want to move around to each seat. But, you could just take a video or snap shot of what each seat looks like and them move the phase by 5 degrees. You might be done spending the good part of a day.
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post #28635 of 30687 Old 04-25-2017, 05:23 PM
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I do have Audyssey MultiEQ XT32 so that would have to be good enough. I would run out of patience trying to work on the phase all day!
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post #28636 of 30687 Old 04-25-2017, 05:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
That adapter won't work. This is the one you need:

http://btpa.com/MIC17-XX.html


Thanks Enrico,
I did see the cable linked on the Rythmik website but did not like how thin the cable itself looked, and I would prefer to purchase from a familiar vendor like Blue Jeans or Amazon. I've spent a couple hours searching and these mini XLR cables are not at all common, especially the male mini's. That is why I thought it might be best to use a standard (non-mini) XLR cable if I could find a proper adapter.

Sean
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post #28637 of 30687 Old 04-25-2017, 05:46 PM
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Two days ago I decided to test with my FV15HP ( 2 Port - 28hz - Low Damping - Line in ) and omg the output was way too much man!! So violent that the amount of shaking that was going on with the sheetrock wasn't worth it even though it rocked my body to the core.

20hz 107dB
30hz 110.dB
40hz 120.3dB
50hz 117.5dB
60hz 116.8dB
70hz 113dB


Sent from my LG-H901 using Tapatalk

Receiver - Sony STR-DH550
Fronts - Klipsch Reference Premiere RP-280F
Center
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Last edited by MrGrey; 04-25-2017 at 05:56 PM.
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post #28638 of 30687 Old 04-25-2017, 06:03 PM
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Originally Posted by stash64 View Post
Thanks Enrico,
I did see the cable linked on the Rythmik website but did not like how thin the cable itself looked, and I would prefer to purchase from a familiar vendor like Blue Jeans or Amazon. I've spent a couple hours searching and these mini XLR cables are not at all common, especially the male mini's. That is why I thought it might be best to use a standard (non-mini) XLR cable if I could find a proper adapter.
This one is more expensive but it's from a trusted verdor (B&H Photo)

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...R_Male_to.html

If you have soldering skills then you can build your own mini-XLR Male to XLR Female cable.

https://www.amazon.com/Seismic-Audio...WC5JQTPCANA8K6

https://www.amazon.com/Neutrik-NC3FX...rik+xlr+female

https://www.amazon.com/Mogami-WG2534...le+bulk+mogani



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Media Room: Ascend Acoustics Sierra Towers w/ RAAL, Horizon w/ RAAL, Sierra 2s & Lunas | Rythmik F12SE (x2) | Emotiva XMC-1 | Emotiva XPA-3 & XPA-200 | Oppo 105D | Bluesound Node 2 | Sony HW40ES |
Desktop: Dynaudio BM5 mkIII | Rythmik L22 | Apogee Quartet | 27" iMac|
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post #28639 of 30687 Old 04-25-2017, 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by MrGrey View Post
Two days ago I decided to test with my FV15HP ( 2 Port - 28hz - Low Damping - Line in ) and omg the output was way too much man!! So violent that the amount of shaking that was going on with the sheetrock wasn't worth it even though it rocked my body to the core.

20hz 107dB
30hz 110.dB
40hz 120.3dB
50hz 117.5dB
60hz 116.8dB
70hz 113dB


Sent from my LG-H901 using Tapatalk
So does it stay in that mode now?
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post #28640 of 30687 Old 04-25-2017, 06:10 PM
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Thanks again Enrico... I have very modest soldering skills, but not enough to trust myself building an audio cable that I would actually use on my own equipment. Amazon does have a 6-foot cable by "Cables Online" but I think it will be too short for one side... probably need an 8-footer. At least the BPTA website allows for custom lengths... so I may end up ordering from them after-all.

Sean
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post #28641 of 30687 Old 04-25-2017, 06:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwsat View Post
Speaking of subwoofer weight, I just checked the UPS tracking info for my two FV18s and saw that their combined shipping weight was 400 pounds. Yikes! They are supposed to be delivered today
Where are the unbox pictures?
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post #28642 of 30687 Old 04-25-2017, 06:20 PM
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Originally Posted by stash64 View Post
Thanks again Enrico... I have very modest soldering skills, but not enough to trust myself building an audio cable that I would actually use on my own equipment. Amazon does have a 6-foot cable by "Cables Online" but I think it will be too short for one side... probably need an 8-footer. At least the BPTA website allows for custom lengths... so I may end up ordering from them after-all.
Sean, call or shot an email to Blue Jeans Cables. I'm pretty sure they can build a mini-XLR Male to XLR Female for you. It may take more than a week until they get the mini-XLR connector, though.



Enrico Castagnetti @ Rythmik Audio
Media Room: Ascend Acoustics Sierra Towers w/ RAAL, Horizon w/ RAAL, Sierra 2s & Lunas | Rythmik F12SE (x2) | Emotiva XMC-1 | Emotiva XPA-3 & XPA-200 | Oppo 105D | Bluesound Node 2 | Sony HW40ES |
Desktop: Dynaudio BM5 mkIII | Rythmik L22 | Apogee Quartet | 27" iMac|
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post #28643 of 30687 Old 04-25-2017, 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted by tvuong View Post
So does it stay in that mode now?
Hell no😂 I switched back to 1 port 14 hz high. It's just too much and it sounds bad because of the rattle. If I had no violent rattle in my walls or doors I would of kept it without a doubt. It is very distracting and ruins the movie.

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Fronts - Klipsch Reference Premiere RP-280F
Center
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Surrounds - Trash
Sub - Rythmik FV15HP
The Ultimate List of BASS in Movies w/ Frequency Charts Heavy Cinematic | Heavy Electronic|
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post #28644 of 30687 Old 04-25-2017, 06:28 PM
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^^ I haven't tried the 28hz mode yet as I like my bass as low as possible. Been sitting at 14/hi for years now with lfe input.
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post #28645 of 30687 Old 04-25-2017, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
Sean, call or shot an email to Blue Jeans Cables. I'm pretty sure they can build a mini-XLR Male to XLR Female for you. It may take more than a week until they get the mini-XLR connector, though.


Good idea... I bet they will quote that for me. I am not a believer in "high end" cables, but definitely a believer in the quality/value that Blue Jeans offers.

Sean
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post #28646 of 30687 Old 04-25-2017, 11:44 PM
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Speaking of subwoofer weight, I just checked the UPS tracking info for my two FV18s and saw that their combined shipping weight was 400 pounds. Yikes! They are supposed to be delivered today so I have my game face on while awaiting delivery. The FV18s are so humongous, I have lined up a moving company to bring them inside from my garage, where I will have UPS deliver them. I also plan to have the movers unbox them and place them in the approximate position where they will stand in my AV setup. Fortunately, they shipped with movers blankets for hardwood floors so scooting them around should be at least manageable.
Any updates?

Ascend Sierra 2's (LCR & side surrounds) + Klipsch atmos modules. 5.1.4 setup
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post #28647 of 30687 Old 04-26-2017, 03:21 AM
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Brian or Enrico,which is better combination between 2 fv25 or 3 fv18 in a sealed room sized 16' x 24' x 9' height?
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post #28648 of 30687 Old 04-26-2017, 04:13 AM
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Originally Posted by tvuong View Post
^^ I haven't tried the 28hz mode yet as I like my bass as low as possible. Been sitting at 14/hi for years now with lfe input.


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Hell no I switched back to 1 port 14 hz high. It's just too much and it sounds bad because of the rattle. If I had no violent rattle in my walls or doors I would of kept it without a doubt. It is very distracting and ruins the movie.

Sent from my LG-H901 using Tapatalk


Just out of curiosity, why high? I've always kept mine on 14hz Low. What's the sound difference?
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post #28649 of 30687 Old 04-26-2017, 04:53 AM
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^^ Deeper extension and less ringing with high.
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post #28650 of 30687 Old 04-26-2017, 05:55 AM
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Just out of curiosity, why high? I've always kept mine on 14hz Low. What's the sound difference?
If you have newcomers and want to show off use low dampening. You should try high dampening I guarantee you will hear/feel a difference. With that said, I prefer mid as I feel it is a good compromise between the two.

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