Official Rythmik Audio Subwoofer thread - Page 970 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #29071 of 30789 Old 05-08-2017, 08:35 PM
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what spl's you getting? the rew modeling for my space says I need the sub close to mlp, like closer the better, less than 6ft away...thats modeling software anyways. mine is 6 feet away and I get lots of tactile punch at 100-110db. it doesnt get much louder until I add backup subs, but I am in upgrade stage so jtr/rhythmik it will have another as I move older subs to smaller rooms in house.

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post #29072 of 30789 Old 05-09-2017, 05:57 AM
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Originally Posted by citsur86 View Post
I guess this brings up a good question. Is there a recommendation from Rythmik for proper output needed for an almost 6000^3 space? I'm assuming the room size is the reason I'm not able to get the full effect of the FV15HP.
I'm running duals in a living room over 5,000 cu ft and I get a lot of seat to seat excitement. MLP is approximately 11 feet away.
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post #29073 of 30789 Old 05-09-2017, 06:04 AM
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Originally Posted by JT78681 View Post
I'm running duals in a living room over 5,000 cu ft and I get a lot of seat to seat excitement. MLP is approximately 11 feet away.


So its probably as I thought - another FV15HP would probably bring me where I want to be. Time to save!
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post #29074 of 30789 Old 05-09-2017, 06:15 AM
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Originally Posted by citsur86 View Post
So its probably as I thought - another FV15HP would probably bring me where I want to be. Time to save!
Picking up a second FV15HP paid big dividends (at least in my room). Not only did I have more output on tap and headroom, but it balanced out the tactile experience throughout the room.
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post #29075 of 30789 Old 05-09-2017, 06:20 AM
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Originally Posted by JT78681 View Post
Picking up a second FV15HP paid big dividends (at least in my room). Not only did I have more output on tap and headroom, but it balanced out the tactile experience throughout the room.
I would buy it today if I wouldn't be divorced tomorrow My issue is mainly with WAF than anything else. My wife already thinks I'm nuts for the one we have, not to mention my other AV toys.
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post #29076 of 30789 Old 05-09-2017, 06:28 AM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
Rythmik is just recommending the 14hz mid damping mode with 3 port for best overall performance...still does not change the fact that the port tune is 16hz in 3 port, but extension can be altered electronically by changing the amps extension filter.
In short port tune and extension are not the same thing.
Hi Bass, you are correct. The port tuning frequency and electronic filter corner frequency are independent and the relationship between them is complex. The best way to view this is that ported subs have native 4th order roll-off which can be considered as two cascaded 2nd order LPF. In other words, those are (F1,Q1), (F2,Q2) in which each (F*,Q*) represents a 2nd order LPF and F is the corner frequency and Q is the quality value. If we put an driver in an ported enclosure, the chance that F1 = F2 = the tuning frequency of the enclosure is next to "0". Even in the most often given example of B4 (Butterworth 4th order) ported subs, F1 does not equal to F2. In fact, one of them is higher than and the other is lower than the port tuning frequency. That just explains the difficulty of prediction FR in a ported sub. In short, the extension filter serves as part of those LPF. We found the 14hz setting mid damping combined with rumble filter ON gives best excursion characteristic. That does not lower the useful extension to 14hz.


Perhaps if we can view that as bass extension/contouring filter, then it is more self explanatory. For sealed subs (there is no port tuning frequency to limit its extension) it is the former and for ported sub, it is the latter.

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post #29077 of 30789 Old 05-09-2017, 06:43 AM
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Originally Posted by citsur86 View Post
I would buy it today if I wouldn't be divorced tomorrow My issue is mainly with WAF than anything else. My wife already thinks I'm nuts for the one we have, not to mention my other AV toys.
I have found its easier to ask for forgiveness instead of permission.
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post #29078 of 30789 Old 05-09-2017, 07:43 AM
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Quick question for the group. When I originally setup my sub, I thought I remember being given info that if you split the single RCA out from the receiver Subwoofer pre-out into both Rythmik Amp's LFE In, you wind up with something like +6db gain? Or was it if you split it into both of the Amp's Line Ins you get the extra gain? The primary reason I ask is that I bought a Dayton SPA250 Amp to drive 4 Aura Bass Shakers and that amp has what is labeled "Low Level Input" Not sure if that would relate to the Rythmik's LFE In or Line In. And depending on which, if splitting the signal to both of those Low Level Inputs, vs. just the white "mono" input would make a difference. Just trying to figure out why and how splitting the pre-out from an AVR can change input gain on an Amp.
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post #29079 of 30789 Old 05-09-2017, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JT78681 View Post
I'm running duals in a living room over 5,000 cu ft and I get a lot of seat to seat excitement. MLP is approximately 11 feet away.


It looks like your dog is aimed properly but not so for the surrounds. Can you not crank the wall brackets any further towards the main seat ? I know of at least one hefty wall bracket that would have plenty of rotation.

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post #29080 of 30789 Old 05-09-2017, 11:53 AM
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It looks like your dog is aimed properly but not so for the surrounds. Can you not crank the wall brackets any further towards the main seat ? I know of at least one hefty wall bracket that would have plenty of rotation.
They are cranked inwards as far as they will go.
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post #29081 of 30789 Old 05-09-2017, 11:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by citsur86 View Post
Quick question for the group. When I originally setup my sub, I thought I remember being given info that if you split the single RCA out from the receiver Subwoofer pre-out into both Rythmik Amp's LFE In, you wind up with something like +6db gain? Or was it if you split it into both of the Amp's Line Ins you get the extra gain? The primary reason I ask is that I bought a Dayton SPA250 Amp to drive 4 Aura Bass Shakers and that amp has what is labeled "Low Level Input" Not sure if that would relate to the Rythmik's LFE In or Line In. And depending on which, if splitting the signal to both of those Low Level Inputs, vs. just the white "mono" input would make a difference. Just trying to figure out why and how splitting the pre-out from an AVR can change input gain on an Amp.
You gain +6db of input signal not Max output. Normally the only reason to do this is if the sub is not getting a strange enough input signal from the AVR for the auto on circuitry to work correctly.
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post #29082 of 30789 Old 05-09-2017, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by JT78681 View Post
They are cranked inwards as far as they will go.


Here is one option that will do 180 degrees:


https://www.amazon.com/B-Tech-BT77-U...ech+wall+mount

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post #29083 of 30789 Old 05-09-2017, 09:11 PM
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I have these. Half the price and nearly identical.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01MZE0O8U?psc=1
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post #29084 of 30789 Old 05-10-2017, 05:20 AM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
You gain +6db of input signal not Max output. Normally the only reason to do this is if the sub is not getting a strange enough input signal from the AVR for the auto on circuitry to work correctly.
Wow so I totally misunderstood a while back. I thought it was to increase headroom on the sub gain/volume knob.
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post #29085 of 30789 Old 05-10-2017, 06:42 AM
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Hey folks,
Looking for some recommendations for a 3k cubic foot room (24x16x8) that has roughly a double door sized opening to the rest of the basement. My listening area is contained to the right side of the room (14x16x8), with the left side open with a fireplace and pool table. I'm running Salk HT2-TL's for my mains and I'm closing in on a 50/50 music/HT.

I have a SVS PB12-NSD now and while it's a nice entry level sub, it's time to move on from it as it's not very musical. I want good clean bass for music and wouldn't mind something that digs low for HT, but have to note that I have received complaints from the old grouchy neighbor in the past when running at reference volumes (I'm now running 10-15 dbs below reference, though I do sometimes exceed that and have recently added some sound proofing insulation).

My budget is around $2k and I was planning on pulling the trigger on dual F12's, but figured I'd get some feedback first. Not sure I need 15 inch subs or duals, though I think I'd prefer duals to even out the room instead of one 15 (could stretch to 2 15's, but I think it might be overkill in my room).

Thanks
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post #29086 of 30789 Old 05-10-2017, 07:34 AM
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@ballen420 I would go for ported 15s over the F12s. Dual FVX15s would be under your max budget.
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post #29087 of 30789 Old 05-10-2017, 07:44 AM
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Originally Posted by ballen420 View Post
Hey folks,
Looking for some recommendations for a 3k cubic foot room (24x16x8) that has roughly a double door sized opening to the rest of the basement. My listening area is contained to the right side of the room (14x16x8), with the left side open with a fireplace and pool table. I'm running Salk HT2-TL's for my mains and I'm closing in on a 50/50 music/HT.

I have a SVS PB12-NSD now and while it's a nice entry level sub, it's time to move on from it as it's not very musical. I want good clean bass for music and wouldn't mind something that digs low for HT, but have to note that I have received complaints from the old grouchy neighbor in the past when running at reference volumes (I'm now running 10-15 dbs below reference, though I do sometimes exceed that and have recently added some sound proofing insulation).

My budget is around $2k and I was planning on pulling the trigger on dual F12's, but figured I'd get some feedback first. Not sure I need 15 inch subs or duals, though I think I'd prefer duals to even out the room instead of one 15 (could stretch to 2 15's, but I think it might be overkill in my room).

Thanks
With such amazing speakers like Salk HT2-TLs and 50/50 music/HT listening habits, if budget allows it, I would go with a pair of E15HPs. If not, then go with a pair of L22s instead. I have a customer running HT2-TLs with a pair of F15HPs and it sounds amazing!!!

A pair of E15HPs in black oak would be $2312 shipped.

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Media Room: Ascend Acoustics Sierra Towers w/ RAAL, Horizon w/ RAAL, Sierra 2s & Lunas | Rythmik F12SE (x2) | Emotiva XMC-1 | Emotiva XPA-3 & XPA-200 | Oppo 105D | Bluesound Node 2 | Sony HW40ES |
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post #29088 of 30789 Old 05-10-2017, 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
With such amazing speakers like Salk HT2-TLs and 50/50 music/HT listening habits, if budget allows it, I would go with a pair of E15HPs. If not, then go with a pair of L22s instead. I have a customer running HT2-TLs with a pair of F15HPs and it sounds amazing!!!

A pair of E15HPs in black oak would be $2312 shipped.
I can stretch the budget if it's worth it. Is the above in bold a typo? The picture shows sealed subs so I'm assuming it is.

I'm shooting for amazing and just making sure you're still recommending sealed subs. From what I understand, ported will go lower, but sealed is tighter. I see Marc recommended ported. If it means anything, I just picked up the speakers over the weekend and have been 90/10 music so far (with no sub for music), so I'd lean towards music benefiting more than HT, but I'm guessing dual 15" sealed will be a huge improvement over what I have now for HT as well.
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post #29089 of 30789 Old 05-10-2017, 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by ballen420 View Post
I can stretch the budget if it's worth it. Is the above in bold a typo? The picture shows sealed subs so I'm assuming it is.

I'm shooting for amazing and just making sure you're still recommending sealed subs. From what I understand, ported will go lower, but sealed is tighter. I see Marc recommended ported. If it means anything, I just picked up the speakers over the weekend and have been 90/10 music so far (with no sub for music), so I'd lean towards music benefiting more than HT, but I'm guessing dual 15" sealed will be a huge improvement over what I have now for HT as well.
It's not a typo. The picture above is a pair of F15HPs. The main difference between the F15HP and E15HP is enclosure size. The E15HP has a smaller footprint so it has a better WAF. The F15HP is only +0.5dB louder than E15HP so in your room it won't make any difference. Trust me, if you get a pair of E15HPs or F15HPs your listening habits will change to 99% music and 1% HT. I have a pair of F12SEs in my 2700 cu ft room with Ascend Acoustics Sierra Towers with RAAL and I can't be more happy with the results.
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post #29090 of 30789 Old 05-10-2017, 08:25 AM
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Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
It's not a typo. The picture above is a pair of F15HPs. The main difference between the F15HP and E15HP is enclosure size. The E15HP has a smaller footprint so it has a better WAF. The F15HP is only +0.5dB louder than E15HP so in your room it won't make any difference. Trust me, if you get a pair of E15HPs or F15HPs your listening habits will change to 99% music and 1% HT. I have a pair of F12SEs in my 2700 cu ft room with Ascend Acoustics Sierra Towers with RAAL and I can't be more happy with the results.
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I believe the E15hp is a smaller cabinet version of the F15hp, both sealed.
My bad. I didn't see the F15HP on the site, I was thinking of the FVHP15. I have one of them slated for a spot that could be a tight fit, so the E15HP would probably work better for me anyway.

Thanks for the recommendations guys.
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post #29091 of 30789 Old 05-10-2017, 09:16 AM
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I have a pair of F12SEs in my 2700 cu ft room with Ascend Acoustics Sierra Towers with RAAL and I can't be more happy with the results.
I have two F15HP's and the same tower speakers in a 2500 ft sq room and I too couldn't be more pleased.

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post #29092 of 30789 Old 05-10-2017, 10:57 AM
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My bad. I didn't see the F15HP on the site, I was thinking of the FVHP15. I have one of them slated for a spot that could be a tight fit, so the E15HP would probably work better for me anyway.

Thanks for the recommendations guys.
If you can fit the fit the F15HP, you are slightly better off that way, but if not, the E15HP is very close.

For a room your size opening to to another room, I definitely think going with those is a worthwhile upgrade over the 12" ones.
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post #29093 of 30789 Old 05-10-2017, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by ballen420 View Post
I can stretch the budget if it's worth it. Is the above in bold a typo? The picture shows sealed subs so I'm assuming it is.

I'm shooting for amazing and just making sure you're still recommending sealed subs. From what I understand, ported will go lower, but sealed is tighter. I see Marc recommended ported. If it means anything, I just picked up the speakers over the weekend and have been 90/10 music so far (with no sub for music), so I'd lean towards music benefiting more than HT, but I'm guessing dual 15" sealed will be a huge improvement over what I have now for HT as well.

Sealed is not.tighter...that is a myth. Sealed is smaller and cheaper. So if you do not need the extra low end grunt of a ported sub then sealed is a good choice. Also sealed can actually extend lower then ported in small rooms that have lots of low end reinforcement from the room(room gain). I think dual F15HP's are a wise choice, F25's even better if you do want more of a combination of HT/Music setup, but being you are 90/10 music the The F/E15 won't disappoint.
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post #29094 of 30789 Old 05-10-2017, 12:19 PM
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Sealed is not.tighter...that is a myth. Sealed is smaller and cheaper.
Thanks for the lesson. Never been much of a 'basshead', so still learning this side of the world.

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Originally Posted by rcohen View Post
If you can fit the fit the F15HP, you are slightly better off that way, but if not, the E15HP is very close.

For a room your size opening to to another room, I definitely think going with those is a worthwhile upgrade over the 12" ones.
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I think dual F15HP's are a wise choice, F25's even better if you do want more of a combination of HT/Music setup, but being you are 90/10 music the The F/E15 won't disappoint.
The F25 is too tall for one of one of my positions, assuming that position is still good with these. If I have the extra space for the F15, I'll go with that over the E15. I'll be measuring and most likely ordering tonight. Thanks again.
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post #29095 of 30789 Old 05-10-2017, 05:07 PM
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We have a pair of FV18s in black oak ready to ship. Price for single unit is $1700 shipped and $$3230 for the pair. If somebody is interested, please send me an email to tech@rythmikaudio.com or to Brian at briand@rythmikaudio.com

We have more amps coming in the next two weeks for FV18s and FV25s.
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Brian says that this coming Thursday we should have a pair of FV25s ready to ship. Price for a single unit is $2500 shipped and $4750 for the pair shipped.
With a budget of $5k, two FV25s and three FV18s cost about the same it seems.

Will three FV18s even approach the capabilities of two FV25s?

I need to measure and see if two FV25s will work in my room.
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post #29096 of 30789 Old 05-10-2017, 05:33 PM
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With a budget of $5k, two FV25s and three FV18s cost about the same it seems.

Will three FV18s even approach the capabilities of two FV25s?

I need to measure and see if two FV25s will work in my room.


You are such an inspiration Marc!


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post #29097 of 30789 Old 05-10-2017, 05:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
FV25 +9db @ 12hz , +6db above 20hz

FV18 +4-5db @ 12hz, +2db above 20hz
For the sake of easy math I am just going to assume that 4dB separates the FV18 and FV25.

This would put dual FV25s just 1dB above three FV18s. The FV25 is going to have more in the tank at 10hz so I think it is safe to say dual FV25s will be 1-3dB above three FV25s.

As much as I would like dual FV25s I think dual FV18s is all I need (3020ft³ room). I can add a 3rd or even a FV25 down the road if needed.

Hmmm🤔
Maybe Brian & Enrico will put together a FV25 + 2 FV18s package at an offer I can't refuse!?
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post #29098 of 30789 Old 05-10-2017, 06:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
For the sake of easy math I am just going to assume that 4dB separates the FV18 and FV25.

This would put dual FV25s just 1dB above three FV18s. The FV25 is going to have more in the tank at 10hz so I think it is safe to say dual FV25s will be 1-3dB above three FV25s.

As much as I would like dual FV25s I think dual FV18s is all I need (3020ft³ room). I can add a 3rd or even a FV25 down the road if needed.

Hmmm
Maybe Brian & Enrico will put together a FV25 + 2 FV18s package at an offer I can't refuse!?


But, as I'm sure you know, 3 over 2 has better potential for flatter response in more places of the room.
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post #29099 of 30789 Old 05-10-2017, 06:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
For the sake of easy math I am just going to assume that 4dB separates the FV18 and FV25.

This would put dual FV25s just 1dB above three FV18s. The FV25 is going to have more in the tank at 10hz so I think it is safe to say dual FV25s will be 1-3dB above three FV25s.

As much as I would like dual FV25s I think dual FV18s is all I need (3020ft³ room). I can add a 3rd or even a FV25 down the road if needed.

Hmmm🤔
Maybe Brian & Enrico will put together a FV25 + 2 FV18s package at an offer I can't refuse!?
Think you meant 2 FV25 + 2 FV18s
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post #29100 of 30789 Old 05-10-2017, 08:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
For the sake of easy math I am just going to assume that 4dB separates the FV18 and FV25.

This would put dual FV25s just 1dB above three FV18s. The FV25 is going to have more in the tank at 10hz so I think it is safe to say dual FV25s will be 1-3dB above three FV25s.

As much as I would like dual FV25s I think dual FV18s is all I need (3020ft³ room). I can add a 3rd or even a FV25 down the road if needed.

Hmmm🤔
Maybe Brian & Enrico will put together a FV25 + 2 FV18s package at an offer I can't refuse!?
I would start with dual FV25's if you have the space.
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