Official Rythmik Audio Subwoofer thread - Page 981 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 4011Likes
Reply
Thread Tools
post #29401 of 29405 Old Today, 07:05 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
mthomas47's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 5,269
Mentioned: 58 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3011 Post(s)
Liked: 4136
Quote:
Originally Posted by citsur86 View Post
Yeah interestingly, I am finding that to be the same. I'm not 100%, but I kind of remember the actual sound being a bit better when the sub was on the side of the room

I think I spent a ton of time trying to get it to look good on paper. I think what I need to do now is checkout other things like waterfall graph, compression sweeps, etc. What are the best measurements to get a true picture of the sound? Going to ask in the REW thread as well.
I will be very interested to hear what you learn from alternative measurement approaches. I believe that there are speaker makers who can correlate measurements to what they can actually hear, in at least a somewhat predictive way. But, for the great majority of us, and perhaps for all of us, what we hear trumps what we measure. One of my favorite quotes on this subject comes from Floyd Toole who said that regardless of what measurements may tell us, a speaker isn't good until it sounds good. I think that we could say the same thing about our subwoofers, operating in our rooms.

I am not being facetious when I say that if you want to know how your subs sound best in your room, just listen. Over time, you will develop some clear preferences for your different physical arrangements, and settings, that have relatively little to do with the frequency response or for the waterfall graph. For instance, a house curve, and particularly one that emphasizes certain portions of the bass bandwidth, has very little to do with a flat FR. Measurements just tell us what we doing with respect to FR, or other audio characteristics. They don't tell us what we actually like or don't like. Only our individual hearing capabilities, and our specific psycho-acoustic preferences in our specific rooms, can do that.

Regards,
Mike
januza likes this.
mthomas47 is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #29402 of 29405 Old Today, 07:59 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
citsur86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,982
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1185 Post(s)
Liked: 443
Quote:
Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
I will be very interested to hear what you learn from alternative measurement approaches. I believe that there are speaker makers who can correlate measurements to what they can actually hear, in at least a somewhat predictive way. But, for the great majority of us, and perhaps for all of us, what we hear trumps what we measure. One of my favorite quotes on this subject comes from Floyd Toole who said that regardless of what measurements may tell us, a speaker isn't good until it sounds good. I think that we could say the same thing about our subwoofers, operating in our rooms.

I am not being facetious when I say that if you want to know how your subs sound best in your room, just listen. Over time, you will develop some clear preferences for your different physical arrangements, and settings, that have relatively little to do with the frequency response or for the waterfall graph. For instance, a house curve, and particularly one that emphasizes certain portions of the bass bandwidth, has very little to do with a flat FR. Measurements just tell us what we doing with respect to FR, or other audio characteristics. They don't tell us what we actually like or don't like. Only our individual hearing capabilities, and our specific psycho-acoustic preferences in our specific rooms, can do that.

Regards,
Mike
I agree, but the point I made in the REW thread a couple days ago regarding a flat response isn't necessarily that the line is horizontal, but that the line, through whatever curve or flatness it follows, does not have major peaks and valleys. I consider my current frequency response as linked in my signature to be relatively flat, meaning no (or insignificant) peaks and valleys, even though it has quite a house curve on it.

That being said, just a "flat" frequency response (as defined above), does not tell the whole story as I have learned, and I have some more work to do through other measurements to truly get a sound that I like. I enjoy booming bass during scenes that demand it, but not when its obtrusive to other viewing moments. For example - a huge explosion warrants a loud and tactile boom and following rumble. However, background music with a low bass note should not make my ears hurt.

I believe the current boosting I am doing resulted in some boominess. Going to try PEQ tonight without the boost. I 100% agree that what we hear trumps what we see, but I would love to have my cake and eat it too.
mthomas47 likes this.

My Current "Living Room" Home Theater!My Frequency ResponsesDialing in Rythmik SubsGetting Started with REW
TV:Samsung PN50C8000——Projector:Optoma GT1080——Screen:Elite VMAX2 Electric——AVR:VSX-44——Fronts:B&W 684 S1
Center:B&W CM Center S2——Surrounds:B&W 685 S1——Subs:2xRythmik FV15HP——Rear Surrounds & Front Height:Polk T15
citsur86 is online now  
post #29403 of 29405 Old Today, 08:19 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
mthomas47's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 5,269
Mentioned: 58 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3011 Post(s)
Liked: 4136
Quote:
Originally Posted by citsur86 View Post
I agree, but the point I made in the REW thread a couple days ago regarding a flat response isn't necessarily that the line is horizontal, but that the line, through whatever curve or flatness it follows, does not have major peaks and valleys. I consider my current frequency response as linked in my signature to be relatively flat, meaning no (or insignificant) peaks and valleys, even though it has quite a house curve on it.

That being said, just a "flat" frequency response (as defined above), does not tell the whole story as I have learned, and I have some more work to do through other measurements to truly get a sound that I like. I enjoy booming bass during scenes that demand it, but not when its obtrusive to other viewing moments. For example - a huge explosion warrants a loud and tactile boom and following rumble. However, background music with a low bass note should not make my ears hurt.

I believe the current boosting I am doing resulted in some boominess. Going to try PEQ tonight without the boost. I 100% agree that what we hear trumps what we see, but I would love to have my cake and eat it too.
I definitely think that you are on the right track. What a number of people including myself have found is that there isn't a single house curve that suits every movie/music genre, or every mood. For instance, while I like a very heavy bass boost for action movies, I don't care for that at all with the types of music I listen to. And, my moods vary, too. Sometimes, when I watch movies, I want more low bass, with a lot of tactile ULF, and sometimes I am really not in the mood for it. And, I back off my master volume and/or sub boost a bit. So, finding a single house curve, and combination of settings, that satisfies every genre and mood may be quite a task.

Some people may be able to use the same settings for everything, but I have to tweak mine a bit to fit the specific situation. I don't really find that to be a lot of trouble as I am very familiar with what my settings do and how to adjust them to fit my preferences of the moment. But, in my case, that is mainly a function of experimentation.

Regards,
Mike
mthomas47 is online now  
 
post #29404 of 29405 Unread Today, 08:24 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
citsur86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,982
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1185 Post(s)
Liked: 443
Quote:
Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
I definitely think that you are on the right track. What a number of people including myself have found is that there isn't a single house curve that suits every movie/music genre, or every mood. For instance, while I like a very heavy bass boost for action movies, I don't care for that at all with the types of music I listen to. And, my moods vary, too. Sometimes, when I watch movies, I want more low bass, with a lot of tactile ULF, and sometimes I am really not in the mood for it. And, I back off my master volume and/or sub boost a bit. So, finding a single house curve, and combination of settings, that satisfies every genre and mood may be quite a task.

Some people may be able to use the same settings for everything, but I have to tweak mine a bit to fit the specific situation. I don't really find that to be a lot of trouble as I am very familiar with what my settings do and how to adjust them to fit my preferences of the moment. But, in my case, that is mainly a function of experimentation.

Regards,
Mike
You raise a good point. The 2x4HD has 4 available configurations each with their entirely separate set of everything (Xover, timing, PEQ, etc). I have a Logitech Harmony remote that i can switch the config from. I think what I will do tonight is setup 2. One with booming bass for action movies (big house curve), one for articulate bass for music (flatter but slightly rising LF rise slope).

Depending on the outcome, I may even move the one sub back to the other side of the room, though I highly doubt I want to do that due to the huge 50Hz null i get when doing that!

My Current "Living Room" Home Theater!My Frequency ResponsesDialing in Rythmik SubsGetting Started with REW
TV:Samsung PN50C8000——Projector:Optoma GT1080——Screen:Elite VMAX2 Electric——AVR:VSX-44——Fronts:B&W 684 S1
Center:B&W CM Center S2——Surrounds:B&W 685 S1——Subs:2xRythmik FV15HP——Rear Surrounds & Front Height:Polk T15
citsur86 is online now  
post #29405 of 29405 Unread Today, 09:30 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
mthomas47's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 5,269
Mentioned: 58 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3011 Post(s)
Liked: 4136
Quote:
Originally Posted by citsur86 View Post
You raise a good point. The 2x4HD has 4 available configurations each with their entirely separate set of everything (Xover, timing, PEQ, etc). I have a Logitech Harmony remote that i can switch the config from. I think what I will do tonight is setup 2. One with booming bass for action movies (big house curve), one for articulate bass for music (flatter but slightly rising LF rise slope).

Depending on the outcome, I may even move the one sub back to the other side of the room, though I highly doubt I want to do that due to the huge 50Hz null i get when doing that!
That sounds like a plan. The second paragraph brings you back to the idea of a stand. If I just wanted to experiment, I would find something around the house that could be used as a makeshift stand--an end table, or even a cinder block, could work. You are just looking for something that could lift one sub off the floor by about 18" to 24". If you still prefer the stacked arrangement, no harm done. And, if you find another arrangement you like better, you could look for a more permanent and aesthetically pleasing stand. There would be lots of options for that.
mthomas47 is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers

Tags
f12g subwoofer , integra dtc 9.8 , lv12r , Rythmik , Rythmik Audio , Rythmik Audio F12 Direct Servo Subwoofer , Rythmik Audio F15 Subwoofer , servo sub



Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off