Official Rythmik Audio Subwoofer thread - Page 982 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #29431 of 30035 Old 05-22-2017, 09:29 PM
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Do we have any numbers to compare the FV25 vs the F28? Since the box is the same size, I'm curious as to how the numbers compare.
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post #29432 of 30035 Old 05-22-2017, 10:57 PM
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Got my Fv15hp today! What am I going to do with that box?!

Used the recommended settings for 1port and used ypao, but the results set all my speakers to large and 40 crossover. Should I run it again or what settings should I use?

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post #29433 of 30035 Old 05-22-2017, 11:24 PM
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Originally Posted by beavil View Post
Got my Fv15hp today! What am I going to do with that box?!

Used the recommended settings for 1port and used ypao, but the results set all my speakers to large and 40 crossover. Should I run it again or what settings should I use?
As a starting point, set all your speakers to SMALL and all to a 80Hz crossover, then have a listen & tweak away.

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Ascension Summoner 3-way Front Speakers / Ascension 3-way Centre Speaker / Peachtree D5 Surrounds / Yamaha NS-555 3-Way Rear Speakers / ERA D4 x 4 Height Speakers / Rythmik Audio F15HP Sub
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post #29434 of 30035 Old 05-22-2017, 11:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Craig Mecak View Post
As a starting point, set all your speakers to SMALL and all to a 80Hz crossover, then have a listen & tweak away.
Will this cancel out the receiver measurements? Or will I just be tweaking it?

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post #29435 of 30035 Old 05-22-2017, 11:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maconi View Post
Do we have any numbers to compare the FV25 vs the F28? Since the box is the same size, I'm curious as to how the numbers compare.
We may want to ask enricoclaudio about this directly, since he is Rythmik's tech liaison. The F28HP will also have the same amplifier as the FV25. Rythmik has stated that they hope to start selling the F28HP this coming Fall. So far I haven't seen any exact specifications on either the FV25 or the F28HP, though I think Rythmik may have at least a good guesstimate for predicting how these two subwoofers will perform, relative to each other.

Routinely stumbling down rabbit holes...

Last edited by hhowards; 05-23-2017 at 03:53 PM.
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post #29436 of 30035 Old 05-23-2017, 12:34 AM
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Originally Posted by beavil View Post
Will this cancel out the receiver measurements? Or will I just be tweaking it?
No, it doesn't cancel out the YPAO measurements, just sends the low bass from those channels to your new sub.

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post #29437 of 30035 Old 05-23-2017, 05:07 AM
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Jim, where will your review be posted when it is ready?

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post #29438 of 30035 Old 05-23-2017, 09:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beavil View Post
Got my Fv15hp today! What am I going to do with that box?!

Used the recommended settings for 1port and used ypao, but the results set all my speakers to large and 40 crossover. Should I run it again or what settings should I use?
YPAO tends to set even medium sized speakers as Large. What I have done is to change the size of all my non subwoofer speakers to Small and set the crossover frequency at 80Hz. This solution has worked well for me. My FV18s play nicely with my other speakers.

HT setup: Sony 75XBR X940D UHD HDR TV; Kaleidescape Strato Movie Server 6 TB; Yamaha RX-A3060 AV receiver; Sonamp 2-1 2channel 100W power amp; Crestron Control System; 2 Rythmik FV18 subwoofers, 6 Hsu HB-1 Bookshelf speakers, 1 Hsu HC-1 Center speaker, 4 Focal ICW8 in-ceiling Atmos speakers; Oppo UDP-203 4K HDR BD player; Mac Mini HTPC. TiVO Bolt 1TB DVR; TiVo Premiere Elite 2 TB DVR; Roku Premiere+
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post #29439 of 30035 Old 05-23-2017, 09:51 AM
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Busy weekend and this is a fast moving thread, but just popping in to say I setup my dual F15HP's on Friday. For music, they blend seamlessly and sound phenomenal and believe I have at least set a baseline. I can tell my speakers aren't working so hard any more and the subs are very detailed on the low end.

I am a little underwhelmed by the output; they're not as hard hitting as I was expecting, but that is probably the nature of the sealed subs and may have some relation to my placement (not a complaint as I didn't need house shaking bass, but curious if tweaking some settings might give me a little more oomph). I did increase the offset in my AVR by 3 dBs and may move that to 6 when I get some more time to tweak.

For music:
Rumble Off
Freq 14 Hz
Damping High

Movies:
Rumble On
Freq 14 Hz
Damping Low

The above the general guidelines? I have my gain set to 0 and my volume is adjusted accordingly for when I setup via Audyssey (halfway on one, few clicks under on the other).

On another note, the second sub introduced some kind of feedback buzz to my system. I'll have to find some time to troubleshoot that.
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post #29440 of 30035 Old 05-23-2017, 12:17 PM
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Just heard a room with 6 fv15hp. Omg!!!!

He wants me to buy 4 fv15hp for $4000. Than he's going to buy 4 fv25.
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post #29441 of 30035 Old 05-23-2017, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timothy1180 View Post
Just heard a room with 6 fv15hp. Omg!!!!

He wants me to buy 4 fv15hp for $4000. Than he's going to buy 4 fv25.
If they're in good shape that is a really good deal. Assuming they're not piano black (in which case the savings is even better), that would be like $1350 off new price.

Gonna do it?
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post #29442 of 30035 Old 05-23-2017, 12:48 PM
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All piano black. I have black oak. I actually like wood look better.

I was going to buy a pair of fv25 when new house is built but I think 4 fv15hp will outperform dual Fv25.

Maybe rythmik can chime in with output comparables???? They all use ds1510 drivers?
For example one fv25 is about 126-127 db at 30-50hz. Dual fv15hp will be same or maybe more?

If it's better than dual fv25 I'll buy them for sure. 6 fv15hp sounds incredible with massive output everywhere. I can't imagine a room with more bass. I've heard rooms with 4 Psa xv30f. 2 jtr cap1400. 4 pb13ultra. I heard a room with jtr 4000 with hsu vtf15 and these 6 fv15hp were better than all those.
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post #29443 of 30035 Old 05-23-2017, 12:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ballen420 View Post
Busy weekend and this is a fast moving thread, but just popping in to say I setup my dual F15HP's on Friday. For music, they blend seamlessly and sound phenomenal and believe I have at least set a baseline. I can tell my speakers aren't working so hard any more and the subs are very detailed on the low end.

I am a little underwhelmed by the output; they're not as hard hitting as I was expecting, but that is probably the nature of the sealed subs and may have some relation to my placement (not a complaint as I didn't need house shaking bass, but curious if tweaking some settings might give me a little more oomph). I did increase the offset in my AVR by 3 dBs and may move that to 6 when I get some more time to tweak.

For music:
Rumble Off
Freq 14 Hz
Damping High

Movies:
Rumble On
Freq 14 Hz
Damping Low

The above the general guidelines? I have my gain set to 0 and my volume is adjusted accordingly for when I setup via Audyssey (halfway on one, few clicks under on the other).

On another note, the second sub introduced some kind of feedback buzz to my system. I'll have to find some time to troubleshoot that.
I was a little underwhelmed when I first got my FVX15, but that was because I was listening at the volumes I did with my previous subwoofer (MFW-15). I found that with my FVX15, I was able to increase the volume on receiver way higher that used to (used to listen at around -32, now regularly -20 to -15 or more). Output increased and it sounds so much cleaner. Receiver and other speakers are all the same as before. I am no expert so don't know exact reason, but assume that was due to distortion was getting with other sub. I would increase sub level on your AVR or just turn it up a little more. Congrats on the purchase. Hope you enjoy yours as much as I continue to enjoy mine!

Receiver - Yamaha
Sub - Rythmik FVX-15
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post #29444 of 30035 Old 05-23-2017, 01:04 PM
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Im swapping my preamp from one that has XT32 to a newer Yamaha with the dual sub eq 64 bit YPAO. Granted from what I read Yamaha is not as good as XT32 here, should you still run the sub as 14hz low for room eq, and then change to mid or high damping if you want? IIRC, the sharp roll off of low kept room eq from trying to boost too much down low and eat up amp power so you used the sharp rolloff mode and then could swap to a mode with a more gradual rolloff after eq.
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post #29445 of 30035 Old 05-23-2017, 01:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timothy1180 View Post
All piano black. I have black oak. I actually like wood look better.

I was going to buy a pair of fv25 when new house is built but I think 4 fv15hp will outperform dual Fv25.

Maybe rythmik can chime in with output comparables???? They all use ds1510 drivers?
For example one fv25 is about 126-127 db at 30-50hz. Dual fv15hp will be same or maybe more?

If it's better than dual fv25 I'll buy them for sure. 6 fv15hp sounds incredible with massive output everywhere. I can't imagine a room with more bass. I've heard rooms with 4 Psa xv30f. 2 jtr cap1400. 4 pb13ultra. I heard a room with jtr 4000 with hsu vtf15 and these 6 fv15hp were better than all those.
In terms of output, 4 x FV15HPs and 2 x FV25s are very close but below 16Hz the advantage goes to the FV25's pair because it will have much less port noise which mean you can play louder without reaching its limits.



Enrico Castagnetti @ Rythmik Audio
Media Room: Ascend Acoustics Sierra Towers w/ RAAL, Horizon w/ RAAL & Sierra 2s | Rythmik F12SE (x2) | Emotiva XMC-1 | Emotiva XPA-3 & XPA-200 | Oppo 105D | Bluesound Node 2 | Sony HW40ES |
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post #29446 of 30035 Old 05-23-2017, 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
In terms of output, 4 x FV15HPs and 2 x FV25s are very close but below 16Hz the advantage goes to the FV25's pair because it will have much less port noise which mean you can play louder without reaching its limits.
Do you have any measurements to be able to compare the FV25 to the F28 yet?
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post #29447 of 30035 Old 05-23-2017, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post
Granted from what I read Yamaha is not as good as XT32 here, should you still run the sub as 14hz low for room eq, and then change to mid or high damping if you want?
Yes
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post #29448 of 30035 Old 05-23-2017, 04:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Maconi View Post
Do you have any measurements to be able to compare the FV25 to the F28 yet?
No yet, sorry.



Enrico Castagnetti @ Rythmik Audio
Media Room: Ascend Acoustics Sierra Towers w/ RAAL, Horizon w/ RAAL & Sierra 2s | Rythmik F12SE (x2) | Emotiva XMC-1 | Emotiva XPA-3 & XPA-200 | Oppo 105D | Bluesound Node 2 | Sony HW40ES |
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Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
The Denon X4x00 is equivalent to a Marantz 701x. However, instead of op-amps the Marantz pre-amp stage utilizes discrete circuitry they call HDAMs. I have not directly compared, but the Marantz implementation is said be warmer while retaining detail.

There is no Marantz equivalent AVR to the Denon X6x00 and X7x00 flagships. The closest equivalents are the AV770x and AV880x pre-amps, respectively.
A well designed amp should not be artificially altering the sound, only providing power. There is a lot of placebo involved in sound quality with amps and audio gear in general. There is a reason no one has won the $10k double blind amplifier test....when the curtain is drawn, the magical pixie dust sound quality improvements are suddenly undetectable between properly designed amps when played within their clean output capabilities. Do people truly and honestly hear a difference...absolutely, even if there is not one...its just the way humans work. People will hear a difference even if the source is not changed if bias is allowed to play a role. And it always does outside of double blind testing. You can't choose to not be biased.
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I think he has said the normal operating range is 1-4V
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post #29452 of 30035 Old 05-24-2017, 06:35 AM
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A well designed amp should not be artificially altering the sound, only providing power. There is a lot of placebo involved in sound quality with amps and audio gear in general.

I don't want to start another debate of whether an particular OPAMP makes a particular sound difference or not. In fact it does make a difference based on my experience. But I do realize not everyone can hear it. Simply because I drive a BMW does not make me a good driver. My coworker bought a type R Integra and then took a couple of real race courses so that he knows how to drive it. I don't know how many BMW drivers bought the car because they understand the car's performance. So there will always be a good size of the population think they are placebo. But the fact there they are so many different OPamps even from the same manufactuers explains there are difference in implementation. Otherwise, we should all uses designs from 50 years ago, shouldn't we? My point is let us be humble.
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post #29453 of 30035 Old 05-24-2017, 06:46 AM
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I don't want to start another debate of whether an particular OPAMP makes a particular sound difference or not. In fact it does make a difference based on my experience. But I do realize not everyone can hear it. Simply because I drive a BMW does not make me a good driver. My coworker bought a type R Integra and then took a couple of real race courses so that he knows how to drive it. I don't know how many BMW drivers bought the car because they understand the car's performance. So there will always be a good size of the population think they are placebo. But the fact there they are so many different OPamps even from the same manufactuers explains there are difference in implementation. Otherwise, we should all uses designs from 50 years ago, shouldn't we? My point is let us be humble.
Well put. Placebo gets put out a lot at AVS when some people see or hear a difference and others do not. Sometimes it is placebo, other times it is not.
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post #29454 of 30035 Old 05-24-2017, 07:00 AM
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Official Rythmik Audio Subwoofer thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
I think he has said the normal operating range is 1-4V


Interesting. I got a voltmeter yesterday to measure out my gain structure and found my AVR is putting out 1.5V into the miniDSP 2x4 HD. But the miniDSP 2x4 HD at my normal listening levels only had .5V going out of the 3 outputs (2 to PEQ3s, 1 to iNuke 1000DSP for tactiles). I had .9V going out of miniDSP 2x4 HD at reference volume.

If I boost all outputs by 12db on the miniDSP 2x4 HD, I get 1.9V at reference and about 1V at normal listening levels to all. With this, my PEQ3s can now have volume knob set around 10pm (instead of 2pm like they were) and the iNuke knobs can be set around the same. This is better right? To boost voltage earlier in signal chain and have amps with lots of headroom?
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post #29455 of 30035 Old 05-24-2017, 07:27 AM
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Will Rythmik ever release speakers to match these beefy subwoofers? If only Rythmik has something similar to JTR 212 or Seaton Cats.
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post #29456 of 30035 Old 05-24-2017, 07:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Skylinestar View Post
Will Rythmik ever release speakers to match these beefy subwoofers? If only Rythmik has something similar to JTR 212 or Seaton Cats.
As a subwoofer company, we want to maintain our focus on subwoofers only. The main reason behind this is that we already have three excellent partners and speakers manufactures like Ascend Acoustics, Salk Sound and GR Research. Subwoofer design, done in the right way, takes a lot of time. Speaker design is even more complicated and takes huge amount of time and resources.
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Enrico Castagnetti @ Rythmik Audio
Media Room: Ascend Acoustics Sierra Towers w/ RAAL, Horizon w/ RAAL & Sierra 2s | Rythmik F12SE (x2) | Emotiva XMC-1 | Emotiva XPA-3 & XPA-200 | Oppo 105D | Bluesound Node 2 | Sony HW40ES |
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post #29457 of 30035 Old 05-24-2017, 07:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Skylinestar View Post
Will Rythmik ever release speakers to match these beefy subwoofers? If only Rythmik has something similar to JTR 212 or Seaton Cats.
Rythmik partners with Ascend Acoustics and Salk Sound which can meet any speaker needs.
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post #29458 of 30035 Old 05-24-2017, 09:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by citsur86 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
I think he has said the normal operating range is 1-4V


Interesting. I got a voltmeter yesterday to measure out my gain structure and found my AVR is putting out 1.5V into the miniDSP 2x4 HD. But the miniDSP 2x4 HD at my normal listening levels only had .5V going out of the 3 outputs (2 to PEQ3s, 1 to iNuke 1000DSP for tactiles). I had .9V going out of miniDSP 2x4 HD at reference volume.

If I boost all outputs by 12db on the miniDSP 2x4 HD, I get 1.9V at reference and about 1V at normal listening levels to all. With this, my PEQ3s can now have volume knob set around 10pm (instead of 2pm like they were) and the iNuke knobs can be set around the same. This is better right? To boost voltage earlier in signal chain and have amps with lots of headroom?
Is your MiniDSP 2x4 HD set to max 2V RMS input volume?

Also, I would use a y adapter to both LFE inputs on each of your subs. That will double the input signal (6dB input gain boost) without needing to boost the input gain in the MiniDSP.

Additionally, keep in mind that the sw trim in AVR determines the voltage from the sub pre-out at any given MV setting. So, a trim of -6dB in the AVR will output less than 0dB at any given MV setting.

As long as you are getting 1V at your normal listening levels this should be enough to make the auto power feature work properly.

My AVR puts out 0.9V RMS with sw trim at zero at -11MV. So, my MiniDSP 2x4 unbalanced won't clip with sw trim at zero as long as the MV is under -11dB. I have my MiniDSP in 0.9V RMS max input mode to avoid the 7dB insertion loss of the 2V RMS max input mode.

(The same applies to the 4V RMS max input voltage mode of your MiniDSP 2x4 HD.)
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post #29459 of 30035 Old 05-24-2017, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
Rythmik partners with Ascend Acoustics and Salk Sound which can meet any speaker needs.
Not only that, just think about the fact that Brian and Enrico both use Ascend speakers for their own personal speakers. I spend some time over on the Ascend forums, as well, and from some of those conversations Brian has had over there it seems like Ascend speakers have performance and design goals that align well with Ascend's performance and design goals. So, even if Rythmik were to design speakers themselves, they might not be all that different (in sound) than what Ascend already has.

In fact, Dave over at Ascend was thinking of venturing into designing subwoofers quite some time ago after he had a good number of Ascend speakers in his lineup. Once he discovered what Brian was doing at Rythmik he stopped and decided to kind up partner up with him because he knew that the subwoofers he had in mind wouldn't be all that different than what Rythmik already had designed. They both seem to think that others speakers work well together as a speaker/subwoofer system. This is what pushed me over the edge in wanting to get a Rythmik subwoofer. I love my Ascend Sierra 2 speakers and Dave has repeatedly said that if you have the RAAL ribbon tweeters in your Ascend speakers to be sure to pair it with a Rythmik subwoofer so that the transient response in the subwoofer can keep up with them. He says that about all of his Ascend speakers, but especially with the speakers that have the RAAL ribbon tweeters. He has said that he also has heard most of the competition and was even partnered up with Hsu before Rythmik came along, but still thinks that Rythmik is worth the extra money. I think he was thinking or Rythmik sealed designs, when he was making that comment, which I am planning to get. Because ported designs like the L12R, FV15HP and FV18, for example seem to have output capabilities equal to or exceeding their competition and yet have servo technology, which the competition doesn't have. They seem like an especially great value for what you are getting.
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Last edited by Schrodinger23; 05-24-2017 at 10:46 AM.
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post #29460 of 30035 Old 05-24-2017, 12:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
Is your MiniDSP 2x4 HD set to max 2V RMS input volume?

Also, I would use a y adapter to both LFE inputs on each of your subs. That will double the input signal (6dB input gain boost) without needing to boost the input gain in the MiniDSP.

Additionally, keep in mind that the sw trim in AVR determines the voltage from the sub pre-out at any given MV setting. So, a trim of -6dB in the AVR will output less than 0dB at any given MV setting.

As long as you are getting 1V at your normal listening levels this should be enough to make the auto power feature work properly.

My AVR puts out 0.9V RMS with sw trim at zero at -11MV. So, my MiniDSP 2x4 unbalanced won't clip with sw trim at zero as long as the MV is under -11dB. I have my MiniDSP in 0.9V RMS max input mode to avoid the 7dB insertion loss of the 2V RMS max input mode.

(The same applies to the 4V RMS max input voltage mode of your MiniDSP 2x4 HD.)
Not sure what the input is set to for miniDSP 2x4 HD - I never changed it - in fact, I don't know how to change it! I assume I would want it at 2V and not 4V since I'm only getting 1.5V into it max right? How do you switch it anyways?

The measurements I gave actually were with both LFE Inputs being used on the PEQ3s. I don't quite understand why there is such a sharp voltage dropoff going through the miniDSP 2x4HD.

I wonder, can increasing the gain so much on miniDSP 2x4 HD degrade the quality of sound the subwoofers produce? Watching MadMax, and while it mostly sounds awesome, there is a lot of "muffled boominess" Maybe I just have the subs volume too high?
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f12g subwoofer , integra dtc 9.8 , lv12r , Rythmik , Rythmik Audio , Rythmik Audio F12 Direct Servo Subwoofer , Rythmik Audio F15 Subwoofer , servo sub



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