Official Rythmik Audio Subwoofer thread - Page 994 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #29791 of 30035 Old 05-31-2017, 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Luisfc1972 View Post
^what size tv is that?

trying to get a sense of those speakers size


They are not small and heavier than they look.


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post #29792 of 30035 Old 05-31-2017, 07:54 PM
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I just got done aligning everything and moving gear around. Now that I am used to YPAO, I am going to run it tomorrow when I get home and watch a nice UHD action flick tomorrow, we shall see. After I get YPAO done and levels set, Ill check out bayformers again and see how it all sounds.
What is going on my friend? Where is your Klipsch LCR?

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post #29793 of 30035 Old 06-01-2017, 05:20 AM
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What is going on my friend? Where is your Klipsch LCR?
Decided to go for something with a smaller footprint and possibly a little more mellow horn. I don't listen to 2 channel hardly if ever anymore, strictly HT, so I figured some quality monitors were a better bet.
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post #29794 of 30035 Old 06-01-2017, 08:06 AM
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Now you gotta take down that awesome Klipsch wall hanging...?

Looks impressive!
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post #29795 of 30035 Old 06-01-2017, 08:07 AM
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Now you gotta take down that awesome Klipsch wall hanging...?

Looks impressive!
Nah,

I love the Klipsch saying too much.
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post #29796 of 30035 Old 06-01-2017, 11:48 AM
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@citsur86 , glad subeqHT solves your bass issues. Are you still experiencing port chuffing?
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post #29797 of 30035 Old 06-01-2017, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by CMonster View Post
Anyone have any thoughts between the LVX12 and the FVX15? I have narrowed down my sub list to these two, but haven't found much about LVX12. This will be placed in a smaller sealed dedicated theater room, 75% HT, 25% gaming. (16x12x8)
I'm very happily running a pair of LVX12s in a sealed room a little bigger at 20x13.5x8. They do an excellent job; I don't at all feel a need for any more power. Which puts me at the bottom of the pile in *this* forum.

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Is there much benefit to going from the LVX12 to the FVX15?
You'll get more top end SPL from the 15. I'm thinking the 12 and 15 are tuned the same, but the 15 could be tuned a couple of Hz lower, IDK. Other than that it should *sound* about the same. Very similar design, and servos make sure of that.

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2) At moderate listening levels, will the larger driver provide more of the vibrations and tactile bass than the 12, or would that be more of a by-product of higher SPL and listening levels?
No. If the listening level is the same (within the range of what both subs can handle), the "vibrations and tactile base" will be identical. If you want more "feels" you have to have a higher SPL to get them.

I typically listen to TV and movies below -10 dB (that is, 10 dB below the 0 dB reference as calibrated by Audyssey in my old Denon AVR-X4000). Mostly I listen at -20 or -25 dB. The two subs (I always recommend at least a pair in a small closed room like you and I have because of room modes) add the realism to the sound -- from just a car door closing to a major explosion.

What you'd get from bigger subs is the capability to reach higher SPL. You'd need this in a bigger open plan room, or if you like to really turn it up (I know people who listen at or above reference level, and crank the subs up even higher; these people need the bigger subs to keep from running into compression and distortion). But at moderate levels, in a sealed room the size you suggest, I think you'd probably never know you had spent the extra money. I know I wouldn't.

So yeah, I'm a cheerleader for the LVX12s. They are the great bargain of the Rythmik line IMHO.
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post #29798 of 30035 Old 06-01-2017, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by CMonster View Post
This would be a single sub in the HT room.
Ah, then definitely go for a pair of LVX12s over a single LVX15. Absolutely. If you want a sweet spot bigger than a basketball hoop, you'll need two subs in a small sealed room.
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post #29799 of 30035 Old 06-01-2017, 01:18 PM
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@citsur86 , glad subeqHT solves your bass issues. Are you still experiencing port chuffing?


Thanks man! It really did. I only get the port chuffing during the rare very low very loud scene. Main ones I can think of are EOT intro, WWZ Grenade, and Pulse scene in the server room.
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post #29800 of 30035 Old 06-01-2017, 01:26 PM
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Official Rythmik Audio Subwoofer thread

Had a thought today. If this seems obvious, and I'm sure it is for many here, forgive me. Call this one mans Eurika moment that many others already knew as common knowledge. I think, in terms of volume and SPL, I've been thinking about adding more than one sub incorrectly. I'm already on the same page around multiple subs being able to help flatter a FR, provide a flatter FR across more locations, and increase SPL total capability, but here is where I think I've been off in my thinking.....

I've always been thinking that for the same volume, say -25db MV for example, 2 subs would be louder than the same MV with 1 sub. I'm thinking, since Audyssey, and any other AVR or Processor EQ systems, EQs the sub as 1 unit (to 75db in Audysseys case), that it isn't actually increasing the SPL for the same MV. Since both subs are adjusted to output the decimals of a single, the increased SPL you get from duals really only comes into play as far as headroom on each sub goes. Is this correct thinking? Sorry if I'm just stating the obvious.

Last edited by citsur86; 06-01-2017 at 02:11 PM.
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post #29801 of 30035 Old 06-01-2017, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by citsur86 View Post
Is this correct thinking? Sorry if I'm just stating the obvious.
Yes!
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post #29802 of 30035 Old 06-01-2017, 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Bruce Watson View Post
Ah, then definitely go for a pair of LVX12s over a single LVX15. Absolutely. If you want a sweet spot bigger than a basketball hoop, you'll need two subs in a small sealed room.
The smaller the room actually the greater the need for dual subs for dealing with modes.

@Rythmik @enricoclaudio a while back I believe Brian mentioned that a slightly improved driver was on the way for the LVX. Is this the case or was I dreaming? Details?
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post #29803 of 30035 Old 06-01-2017, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by citsur86 View Post
You should try Lion Gaurd, some good bass in there!
My wife and I love The Lion Guard, Miles from Tomorrowland, Elena of Avalor, and Sofia the First. Once my son discovered Paw Patrol he has no interest in any other shows anymore. We have to force some variety for our own sanity. He'll be 4 in two weeks.
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post #29804 of 30035 Old 06-01-2017, 02:18 PM
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My wife and I love The Lion Guard, Miles from Tomorrowland, Elena of Avalor, and Sofia the First. Once my son discovered Paw Patrol he has no interest in any other shows anymore. We have to force some variety for our own sanity. He'll be 4 in two weeks.


Haha yeah I hear ya. We just got my son into Arthur. Unfortunately it is severely lacking in the bass department
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post #29805 of 30035 Old 06-01-2017, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Bruce Watson View Post
I typically listen to TV and movies below -10 dB (that is, 10 dB below the 0 dB reference as calibrated by Audyssey in my old Denon AVR-X4000). Mostly I listen at -20 or -25 dB. The two subs (I always recommend at least a pair in a small closed room like you and I have because of room modes) add the realism to the sound -- from just a car door closing to a major explosion.

What you'd get from bigger subs is the capability to reach higher SPL. You'd need this in a bigger open plan room, or if you like to really turn it up (I know people who listen at or above reference level, and crank the subs up even higher; these people need the bigger subs to keep from running into compression and distortion). But at moderate levels, in a sealed room the size you suggest, I think you'd probably never know you had spent the extra money. I know I wouldn't.
Your report that you listen to movie and TV soundtracks at a level of -10dB below reference or louder reminds me that I should report and interesting development with my listening levels since I got my FV18s. When my subwoofer was a single Hsu VTF-3 MK3 Turbo, I virtually never listened at levels louder than about -15dB. After I got my FV18s configured, though, I learned that increasing the level to -7.5dB would more often than not produce thrilling movie theater type sound with crisp high notes and rumbling, tactile LFE. Thus, on movie disks, with lossless soundtracks I set the level at at least -7.5dB and sometimes as low as -5db. Haven't checked the SPL again since the check I did immediately after I got everything configured but at that time the max SPL was about 110dB. That's about the loudest these old ears are comfortable with.

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Originally Posted by citsur86 View Post
Since both subs are adjusted to output the decimals of a single, the increased SPL you get from duals really only comes into play as far as headroom on each sub goes. Is this correct thinking?
Yup.
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Official Rythmik Audio Subwoofer thread

I measured about 5 minutes using an iPhone SPL app at the Dolby AMC Cinema I saw the new Pirates of the Caribbean flick at this past weekend. I wound up with this.



At home when I get around those levels (~ -5MV) the sound gets a bit harsh and is just plain too loud. I find it odd that I never feel like it's too loud at the theater, but at home those same volumes do cause me to wince a bit and I usually turn it down to around -10 to -15 for movie watching at home.
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post #29808 of 30035 Old 06-01-2017, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by citsur86 View Post
I measured about 5 minutes using an iPhone SPL app at the Dolby AMC Cinema I saw the new Pirates of the Caribbean flick at this past weekend. I wound up with this.



At home when I get around those levels (~ -5MV) the sound gets a bit harsh and is just plain too loud. I find it odd that I never feel like it's too loud at the theater, but at home those same volumes do cause me to wince a bit and I usually turn it down to around -10 to -15 for movie watching at home.
I usual get much higher levels. We usually attend Cinemark XD, Dolby Cinema, or ewuivalent.

Shouldn't you use C-weighting? You should also calibrate your phone SPL meter vs your UMIK-1.
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post #29809 of 30035 Old 06-01-2017, 03:08 PM
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I usual get much higher levels. Shouldn't you use C-weighting?

You should also calibrate your phone SPL meter vs your UMIK-1.


Ah not sure what A or C weighting are? Also how would I calibrate the phone meter vs the UMIK-1?
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post #29810 of 30035 Old 06-01-2017, 03:11 PM
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Ah not sure what A or C weighting are? Also how would I calibrate the phone meter vs the UMIK-1?
This is the phone meter I prefer using. It has a CAL button for calibration.


I would recommend using 50Hz, 1KHz, and 10kHz for the reference points. You can use whatever you want.
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Haven't checked the SPL again since the check I did immediately after I got everything configured but at that time the max SPL was about 110dB.
IIRC, 0 dB reference (Dolby definition) is supposed to max out at around 105 dB. But for equal loudness across the frequencies, that means the bottom end has to be up considerably higher. The Dolby specification bumps the LFE channel +10 dB to max out at 115 dB. Last time I looked at the Robinson Dadson curves I seem to remember 20 Hz needed to be around 115-120 dB to match loudness with 3000Hz at 100 dB more or less, so what Dolby is suggesting makes at least a little sense.

That said, when you get up to 100 dB, I'm the guy asking to turn it down. At 110 dB I'm already out the door. I'm just not interested in chancing any damage to my ears. I'll be in hearing aids soon enough, no reason to rush it.
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That said, when you get up to 100 dB, I'm the guy asking to turn it down. At 110 dB I'm already out the door. I'm just not interested in chancing any damage to my ears. I'll be in hearing aids soon enough, no reason to rush it.
Above 90dB average at the movies with dialog scenes is too loud for us (we will ask for refunds). We actually take earplugs to church as their volumes are often worse than the movies (we attend a predominantly African-American church).

@enricoclaudio what standards do you go by for your church's SPL levels?
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At home when I get around those levels (~ -5MV) the sound gets a bit harsh and is just plain too loud. I find it odd that I never feel like it's too loud at the theater, but at home those same volumes do cause me to wince a bit and I usually turn it down to around -10 to -15 for movie watching at home.
Love the idea of an SPL meter on my phone. Google Play Store has dozens. I need to figure out which one will actually work for me. Don't know why I haven't already loaded one. Sigh...

I hear what you hear. It can be louder at the movies without feeling bad, but at home it gets harsh and "overloaded" sounding. I always thought that was a function of room volume and room treatment. Most theaters are bigger in several directions that the wavelength at 20 Hz (17m), so room modes aren't a problem. Anyway, at home I usually listen at -10 to -25 dB, depending on the content, and depending on who's with me in the room at the time.
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post #29814 of 30035 Old 06-01-2017, 03:48 PM
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I learned that increasing the level to -7.5dB would more often than not produce thrilling movie theater type sound with crisp high notes and rumbling, tactile LFE
I agree. At louder level, movies make me jump more making it more exciting. It scares the crap out of me lots of time which makes it fun.
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At home when I get around those levels (~ -5MV) the sound gets a bit harsh and is just plain too loud.
Time to get into high sensitive compression horn speakers. It could be that your B&W speakers are tapping out at -5MV. For demo, I took my MV to 0 and my system does not sound harsh. It is loud though.
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Time to get into high sensitive compression horn speakers. It could be that your B&W speakers are tapping out at -5MV. For demo, I took my MV to 0 and my system does not sound harsh. It is loud though.


Agree, for me it is now the opposite since I got my PSA MTMs. I have never listened this loud and I want to keep going louder, it's only when I look at the MV on the AVR do I realize that I need to stop


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Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
Above 90dB average at the movies with dialog scenes is too loud for us (we will ask for refunds). We actually take earplugs to church as their volumes are often worse than the movies (we attend a predominantly African-American church).

@enricoclaudio what standards do you go by for your church's SPL levels?
I agree that 90dB is more than enough for average dialog. The 110dB SPL I was referring to was the max output. Fortunately, there isn't too much of that. I should add, that when I said the max was 110dB, I was wondering whether it hadn't been 105dB, instead. Call me a weasel, but there it is.

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It should be kept in mind that in order to accurately measure the SPL output of systems with high end subwoofers in them, it is necessary that the the SPL meter be capable of Z weighting. The only SPL meter I have, which is capable of that, is the one built in to REW.

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Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
Above 90dB average at the movies with dialog scenes is too loud for us (we will ask for refunds).
I thought that Dolby reference dialog levels were supposed to average 80 dB. 90dB would be walk out loud for me too.
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Well, I just ran some content I am familiar with after getting the PSA monitors up, everything sounds great and the horns are more mellow than the Klipsch, which is what I hoped for. Oh, and FV15HP's still hit 115 dB (at 10 feet away) at reference volume on the city battle in bayformers 1
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f12g subwoofer , integra dtc 9.8 , lv12r , Rythmik , Rythmik Audio , Rythmik Audio F12 Direct Servo Subwoofer , Rythmik Audio F15 Subwoofer , servo sub



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