No one on here ever talks about Paradigm Ultracubes - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 48 Old 01-12-2010, 01:41 PM - Thread Starter
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I own one - I just bought it a few months ago. An Ultracube 12 Does anyone else own one? How do they like it? What does it compare with model wise with HSU, SVS, etc? I needed something on the smaller side that the gf approved. So I bought one! Anyone else...
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post #2 of 48 Old 01-12-2010, 01:50 PM
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I own two of them and am quite happy with them. I had a couple of 10's but have since got rid of them.
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post #3 of 48 Old 01-12-2010, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Geek From NJ View Post

I own one - I just bought it a few months ago. An Ultracube 12 Does anyone else own one? How do they like it? What does it compare with model wise with HSU, SVS, etc? I needed something on the smaller side that the gf approved. So I bought one! Anyone else...

I am sure they are good subs. I can't imagine anyone complaining about them.

However, you can get more boom for your money from the internet direct companies. But, you should get what makes you happy.

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post #4 of 48 Old 01-13-2010, 09:39 AM
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I bought mine cause I could audition them! For me, hearing what I'm buying helps in my decision.
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post #5 of 48 Old 01-13-2010, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by jpmst3 View Post

I
However, you can get more boom for your money from the internet direct companies. But, you should get what makes you happy.

You shouldn't have any problem getting 25-30% below MSRP on Paradigm products from your local dealer, so almost all of their products stack up well against ID companies.

For instance, the Ultracube 12 has basically equal performance and price compared to the SVS PB12-Plus.

Paradigm's flagship subs (Sub 2, Sub 25, and Sub 1) thrash anything from SVS, and are priced comparably to eD's top models while looking a lot nicer.
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post #6 of 48 Old 01-13-2010, 01:19 PM
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I would be amazed if you can get a dealer to knock 25-30% off of retail on Paradigm subwoofers.
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post #7 of 48 Old 01-13-2010, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by osiris13 View Post

I would be amazed if you can get a dealer to knock 25-30% off of retail on Paradigm subwoofers.

I am not sure about dealers, but there are often other 'unauthorized' outlets that are discounted heavily.
Of course, I doubt you will get any demos from them.

But, that pricing structure is what makes the internet direct pricing and products so successful. You cut out the middle men...which cuts out the middle price...

I certainly don't know much about the Pardigm's flagship line of subs, technically, regarding actual output.

But, I can tell you that the SVS Ultra 13 has some amazing output and sq for its price or any price for that matter. The great thing, unlike many of the subs, it has been tested thoroughly so there are no manufacturer claims to dispute. It is one of the most versatile subs around due to its variable tuning.

http://www.hometheatershack.com/foru...mpilation.html

You may or may not like SVS, but I doubt the SUB25 (don't know enough about the 1 or 2) will even come close to the Ultra 13 in output. You could argue about subjective SQ for sure, but not output. The SUB25 should be a couple db better than the JL F113. But, that is still a long way off from an Ultra 13. ( It would take 2 or 3 JL Audio F113s to match the Ultra 13 from 16-30Hz, depending on tuning)

Remember you are comparing ported to sealed. When you talking the larger enclosure of the SVS coupled with a ported alignment, the Paradigms just can't match the efficiency of a ported setup. Just like ported can't match the efficiency of a horn loaded setup. There are trade offs in every design though...i prefer sealed subs and many would argue for ported.
Of course, the build quality and overall design is head and shoulders better than anything from most if not all companies, let alone SVS. Those new Paradigms are amazing looking!

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post #8 of 48 Old 01-13-2010, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by the_phew View Post

You shouldn't have any problem getting 25-30% below MSRP on Paradigm products from your local dealer, so almost all of their products stack up well against ID companies.

For instance, the Ultracube 12 has basically equal performance and price compared to the SVS PB12-Plus.

Paradigm's flagship subs (Sub 2, Sub 25, and Sub 1) thrash anything from SVS, and are priced comparably to eD's top models while looking a lot nicer.

maybe in looks, but they aren't thrashing anything from SVS, HSU, ASCEND, ED, Epik etc in performance.......
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post #9 of 48 Old 01-13-2010, 01:57 PM
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Well I can get 25 - 30% off and I'm in Canada. but I guess its just me.
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post #10 of 48 Old 01-13-2010, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by ls200p View Post

Well I can get 25 - 30% off and I'm in Canada. but I guess its just me.

Do some Googling and see what comes up. There are often some rouge wholesalers. Also check Audiogon for anything used.

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post #11 of 48 Old 01-13-2010, 02:16 PM
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Thanks J, I usually buy brand new. I don't like taking a chance on used stuff, unless I can go and see/listen to it myself.
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post #12 of 48 Old 01-13-2010, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by ls200p View Post

Thanks J, I usually buy brand new. I don't like taking a chance on used stuff, unless I can go and see/listen to it myself.

Ya, understand where you are coming from. The nice thing about sites like audiogon is there is a reputation feature that really helps in making that happen. But, used isn't for everyone.

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post #13 of 48 Old 01-13-2010, 03:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the_phew View Post

You shouldn't have any problem getting 25-30% below MSRP on Paradigm products from your local dealer, so almost all of their products stack up well against ID companies.

For instance, the Ultracube 12 has basically equal performance and price compared to the SVS PB12-Plus.

Paradigm's flagship subs (Sub 2, Sub 25, and Sub 1) thrash anything from SVS, and are priced comparably to eD's top models while looking a lot nicer.

I hope that the Ultracube 12 is a huge step up from the Ultracube 10 because in tests, the Ultracube 10 can't hold a candle to even the old SVS PB10-ISD.
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post #14 of 48 Old 01-13-2010, 04:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the_phew View Post

You shouldn't have any problem getting 25-30% below MSRP on Paradigm products from your local dealer, so almost all of their products stack up well against ID companies.

For instance, the Ultracube 12 has basically equal performance and price compared to the SVS PB12-Plus.

Paradigm's flagship subs (Sub 2, Sub 25, and Sub 1) thrash anything from SVS, and are priced comparably to eD's top models while looking a lot nicer.

the sub 12/15 will give SVS a run for its money
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post #15 of 48 Old 01-13-2010, 04:27 PM
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I auditioned the Ultra 10 & 12 at my local dealer in toledo,ohio. I loved the ultra cube 12! The bass was tight, clean,and could shake the whole room.
The 10 just didn't do it for me(not enough bass for me). It sounded clean but nothing compared to the 12.
Ryan
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post #16 of 48 Old 01-13-2010, 04:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Ryan45872 View Post

I auditioned the Ultra 10 & 12 at my local dealer in toledo,ohio. I loved the ultra cube 12! The bass was tight, clean,and could shake the whole room.
The 10 just didn't do it for me(not enough bass for me). It sounded clean but nothing compared to the 12.
Ryan

did you audition the dsp3200 or 3400? the 3400 is on audiogon for less than $600
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post #17 of 48 Old 01-13-2010, 05:28 PM
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Hi
Yes I did. I auditioned the 3400 . Thats an incredible sub! Plenty of deep,clean and loud bass!!! I still prefer the ultra cube 12 though. It was a bit tighter and for space savings, you can't go wrong.

Thanks
Ryan
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post #18 of 48 Old 01-13-2010, 06:47 PM
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Originally Posted by mojomike View Post

I hope that the Ultracube 12 is a huge step up from the Ultracube 10 because in tests, the Ultracube 10 can't hold a candle to even the old SVS PB10-ISD.

I can easily believe that. I have owned a couple PB-10s (among dozens of subs) years ago before getting into DIY and they are VERY potent and freakishly linear.
I still think they are one of the best bargains is bass.

That's what makes this stuff so interesting and why I learned to never buy anything until it is real world tested. Just a few short years ago the PB-10 embarrased many subs costing thousands, and that is no joke. I can remember one test where it was +/- 1db 18-100 Hz.

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post #19 of 48 Old 01-13-2010, 06:56 PM
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Originally Posted by osiris13 View Post

I would be amazed if you can get a dealer to knock 25-30% off of retail on Paradigm subwoofers.

Maybe not your local dealer, but there are big dealers that will gladly sell outside of their area at a huge discount, and still maintain the full warranty. I'm talking full Paradigm Authorized dealers, not Audiophile Liquidators or other shady websites.

I got 38% and 32% below MSRP on my last two Signature Series purchases, brand new with full warranty.

And jpmst3 is right, there is no sense comparing sealed subs to ported, regardless of brand. The top-end Paradigm subs are aimed squarely at JL Audio's lineup. SVS only offers one sealed sub right now anyway, although it looks like that will change later this year. Paradigm Sub15 vs. SVS SB16-Ultra may prove to be a helluva fight.
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post #20 of 48 Old 01-13-2010, 07:04 PM
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Originally Posted by the_phew View Post

You shouldn't have any problem getting 25-30% below MSRP on Paradigm products from your local dealer, so almost all of their products stack up well against ID companies.

Being a dealer myself, it all depends on the line of speaker from Paradigm. 25 to 30% is a major stretch, especially if you are a brand new customer. But a 12 - 15% off smaller or single product, and 15 - 20% off repeat business or larger or more expensive products is acceptable. As well, maybe in the States, where people are desparate for business, or if all they sell it audio.

Don;t just assume you are going to get 30% off. Understand, there is NO money being made in video anymore. NONE. And anybody that is foolish enough to think there is, should have their heads examined.

Funny thing is, nobody ever thinks that there should be a discount on the ID companies.

Custom Home Theater Sales Specialist.
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post #21 of 48 Old 01-13-2010, 07:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Ryan Peddle View Post


Funny thing is, nobody ever thinks that there should be a discount on the ID companies.

...Because in the world of ID, the successful companies are already selling products which at their list prices offer a high value/price ratio. For example, name a Paradigm sub that can hang with a PB13 and lists for $1699.
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post #22 of 48 Old 01-13-2010, 07:18 PM
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Originally Posted by mojomike View Post

...Because in the world of ID, the successful companies are already selling products which at their list prices offer a high value/price ratio. For example, name a Paradigm sub that can hang with a PB13 and lists for $1699.

sub 12
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post #23 of 48 Old 01-13-2010, 07:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan Peddle View Post

Being a dealer myself, it all depends on the line of speaker from Paradigm. 25 to 30% is a major stretch, especially if you are a brand new customer. But a 12 - 15% off smaller or single product, and 15 - 20% off repeat business or larger or more expensive products is acceptable. As well, maybe in the States, where people are desparate for business, or if all they sell it audio.

Don;t just assume you are going to get 30% off. Understand, there is NO money being made in video anymore. NONE. And anybody that is foolish enough to think there is, should have their heads examined.

Funny thing is, nobody ever thinks that there should be a discount on the ID companies.

You threw me off for a second with that comment about video, but I'm assuming you meant audio. Anyway, if there was seriously no money to be made in audio, dealers wouldn't even exist.

Oddly enough, my dealer tells me business has been mostly great, considering the recent global recession and all. And, they still manage to give me >25% discounts on all my purchases, including Paradigm.
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post #24 of 48 Old 01-13-2010, 07:38 PM
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Originally Posted by BRAC View Post

You threw me off for a second with that comment about video, but I'm assuming you meant audio. Anyway, if there was seriously no money to be made in audio, dealers wouldn't even exist.

Oddly enough, my dealer tells me business has been mostly great, considering the recent global recession and all. And, they still manage to give me >25% discounts on all my purchases, including Paradigm.

I suspect what Ryan meant is that because no money can be made on video, audio instead must be used to turn a profit and therefore cannot be discounted too heavily.
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post #25 of 48 Old 01-13-2010, 08:09 PM
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Originally Posted by mojomike View Post

...Because in the world of ID, the successful companies are already selling products which at their list prices offer a high value/price ratio. For example, name a Paradigm sub that can hang with a PB13 and lists for $1699.

Well, a couple things...

First, you have to compare apples to apples. You can't compare a big boxy tank of a ported sub to a much smaller room friendly sealed unit. Wait until SVS releases a similar line of sealed units, then you would have a more worthy comparison.

Second, ID don't have a middle man to consider. Companies like Paradigm have to set list prices higher to account for this simple fact. I think if you were to compare apples to apples, and factor in possible discounts, then I think the gap closes considerably.
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post #26 of 48 Old 01-13-2010, 08:14 PM
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Originally Posted by mojomike View Post

I suspect what Ryan meant is that because no money can be made on video, audio instead must be used to turn a profit and therefore cannot be discounted too heavily.

Makes much more sense if that's what he was saying.
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post #27 of 48 Old 01-13-2010, 08:21 PM - Thread Starter
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I listen to the DSP's and just did not like them at all. Ther bass just seemed flabby like my gut! haha I mean for a small 13 x 13 foot print thats wife / gf approved and sounds descent. Sure I would love to have an svs or hsu and saved some money or got a better sub, but I own a house (not a movie theatre) for gosh sakes!

Anyway I only pair i with the atoms and matching surrounds, etc. So today I turned the gain up 3/4 and pumped up the volume and let it run or 30 minutes with a good bassy cd. Maybe it will break it in a little bit as I have had it only slightly over a 1/4 per Audesey setting with a bump or two on the trim. I like...

QUESTION: But I tell yeah one thing I walked the room and my sweet spot is not my sitting area its about 5 feet to the left.

Can I adjust the phase to correct this? Will that move the sound a little?
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post #28 of 48 Old 01-13-2010, 08:26 PM - Thread Starter
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actually i must be tired i should put it in my listening area and then place it. But m only choice is the left side which is not a corner and open or the right side which is a coner with glass window close by. And the gf will **** if i move this nic tall accent light, which I like there so I am sorta screwed
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post #29 of 48 Old 01-13-2010, 08:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BRAC View Post

Well, a couple things...

First, you have to compare apples to apples. You can't compare a big boxy tank of a ported sub to a much smaller room friendly sealed unit. Wait until SVS releases a similar line of sealed units, then you would have a more worthy comparison.

Point well taken. It simply cost more and takes a lot more power to get decent performance and output from a smaller box.
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Originally Posted by BRAC View Post

Second, ID don't have a middle man to consider. Companies like Paradigm have to set list prices higher to account for this simple fact. I think if you were to compare apples to apples, and factor in possible discounts, then I think the gap closes considerably.

That's just the point of shopping ID: to eliminate the middle man. To the buyer, the bottom line is value for the money. If the buyer can get more value for the money, doesn't it behoove him to elimininate the middle man?
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post #30 of 48 Old 01-13-2010, 08:40 PM
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Originally Posted by mojomike View Post

Point well taken. It simply cost more and takes a lot more power to get decent performance and output from a smaller box.

I can't wait until the SB16 comes out. I have no plans to buy one, but I do like listening to the bigger companies squirm each time the performance bar is raised and the overall value is increased by the ID companies.
It all results in better products for consumers. The performance we get now for less than $2000 was uheard of a few years ago at just about any price.

Not so long ago the Velodyne HGS-18 was the king of hill and was several grand. Albeit it is still a great sub, but we will see what the new Velodyne DD series is like when it hits the market this year. JL took a lot of market share from them in that price range. Paradigm redesigned everyting last year...it just gets better and better. It is exciting to watch and be a part of it all.

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