Hooking the sub questions and odd auto-sleep problem. - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 6 Old 01-15-2010, 05:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Hello,

I have questions on what is the best way to hook up
a sub in my case.

I have a Marantz SR4600 AVR and an E-MU PS12 sub.

The receiver has 8 pre-outs (L, R, SL, SR, C, SBL, SBR, LFE).
The sub has 2 unbalanced RCA inputs and 2 balanced Neutrik inputs.

The receiver also has a (most likely digital) crossover,
I can't find any details on it (filter type, etc.), though.

I'm wondering what is the best way:

***1. To use LFE pre-out on the SR4600 into PS12's stereo RCAs
with Y adapter. This is without Multi-channel Stereo mode engaged.
This would theoretically the best way, since the only LP and HP
filters used here are the SR4600's ones.

***2. To use SL and SR pre-outs (with SMALL option selected
for mains L/R and LARGE for SL/SR, so full signal is sent there)
on the SR4600 plugged into PS12's stereo RCAs,
obviously without Y adapter. With Multi-channel Stereo mode engaged,
so that L/R signal is duplicated on SL/SR.

But since the full signal is sent to the PS12, its own LP filter
(48dB/Oct Butterworth) has to be engaged.

This in turn makes it potentially harder to tune in,
since I don't know SR4600's HP filter slope and it is probably
less aggressive, causing a bump or dip somewhere.
It will also require manual tuning of the PS12's LP filter.

***3. Ditto, but with Y adapter in the SR4600 SL/SR pre-outs
plugged into either L or R input of the PS12.

I have it currently connected as in 2. The only problem
I'm having is the PS12's auto-on is "lazy" and I
have to bump the preout volume to -30dB/-25db region to wake it up.
It also has the tendency to go into sleep, while listening.

Also, I find it impossible to seamlessly integrate the PS12's
SPL with the mains (Behringer B2031P's). It sounds fantastic,
but there is always room for improvement.

The sub is simply too quiet. But, I can't understand why.
Even bumping SL/SR pre-outs in the menu to +10dB(!)
doesn't help it too much.

Having OCD makes me also go paranoid on the signal quality
distortion induced by using Y adapter. Mainly because it is one
of those: http://media.digikey.com/photos/Pomo...hotos/6882.JPG

So it is unknown to me what is inside, whether it is shielded, etc.
I know it's the LF region but still, you want your equipment to
sound as good as possible.

What is your opinion?

Best wishes!
Daniel
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post #2 of 6 Old 01-15-2010, 05:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _DanielK_ View Post

Hello,

I have questions on what is the best way to hook up
a sub in my case.

I have a Marantz SR4600 AVR and an E-MU PS12 sub.

The receiver has 8 pre-outs (L, R, SL, SR, C, SBL, SBR, LFE).
The sub has 2 unbalanced RCA inputs and 2 balanced Neutrik inputs.

The receiver also has a (most likely digital) crossover,
I can't find any details on it (filter type, etc.), though.

I'm wondering what is the best way:

***1. To use LFE pre-out on the SR4600 into PS12's stereo RCAs
with Y adapter. This is without Multi-channel Stereo mode engaged.
This would theoretically the best way, since the only LP and HP
filters used here are the SR4600's ones.

***2. To use SL and SR pre-outs (with SMALL option selected
for mains L/R and LARGE for SL/SR, so full signal is sent there)
on the SR4600 plugged into PS12's stereo RCAs,
obviously without Y adapter. With Multi-channel Stereo mode engaged,
so that L/R signal is duplicated on SL/SR.

But since the full signal is sent to the PS12, its own LP filter
(48dB/Oct Butterworth) has to be engaged.

This in turn makes it potentially harder to tune in,
since I don't know SR4600's HP filter slope and it is probably
less aggressive, causing a bump or dip somewhere.
It will also require manual tuning of the PS12's LP filter.

***3. Ditto, but with Y adapter in the SR4600 SL/SR pre-outs
plugged into either L or R input of the PS12.

I have it currently connected as in 2. The only problem
I'm having is the PS12's auto-on is "lazy" and I
have to bump the preout volume to -30dB/-25db region to wake it up.
It also has the tendency to go into sleep, while listening.

Also, I find it impossible to seamlessly integrate the PS12's
SPL with the mains (Behringer B2031P's). It sounds fantastic,
but there is always room for improvement.

The sub is simply too quiet. But, I can't understand why.
Even bumping SL/SR pre-outs in the menu to +10dB(!)
doesn't help it too much.

Having OCD makes me also go paranoid on the signal quality
distortion induced by using Y adapter. Mainly because it is one
of those: http://media.digikey.com/photos/Pomo...hotos/6882.JPG

So it is unknown to me what is inside, whether it is shielded, etc.
I know it's the LF region but still, you want your equipment to
sound as good as possible.

What is your opinion?

Best wishes!
Daniel

Yes to #1, It's best to control the freq at the AVS and turn the xover on the sub off. Deff No to #2. Why would you choose the SL/SR pre-outs to a sub? Even if set to Large sp setting while watching a movie the AVS will automatically send the surround intended signal to the sub. Unless you force 7ch stereo. Deff no to #3 because in this scenario you're joining the SL/SR signal so this could potentially damage the amp.

There's got to be a way to go into the AVS settings and adjust the output to the LFE channel. If that's all the way up and your subs all the way up and you've tried different cables or shorter distance cables then somethings not right with either the AVS or sub amp.

On another note you've suggested using a Y-Splitter into the sub but do you mean 2 into 1 (as your picture) or 1 into 2? I find my SVS-10NSD is cranked and I'm getting a weak signal similar to your issue. I'm going to try using a 1 into 2 splitter and a shorter cable. Have a 50' RG6 cable with adapters at both ends.
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post #3 of 6 Old 01-15-2010, 07:56 AM - Thread Starter
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msvara: Regarding SL/SR to a sub, I'm doing it this way because,
as I mentioned, I have OCD and I'm obsessive about LFE not containing
all the summed low frequency content from L/R.

That is why I preferred to copy L/R to SL/SR and connect it
to sub's L/R inputs and let it do the summing from stereo.

Also, I'm using the setup mainly for stereo (I prefer stereo,
but the AVR is best value/price here, so I prefer not to change it,
I measured its FR response and THD with RMAA a long while ago
and it turned out excellent. Power outs were practically ruler flat.),
so we can rule out the SL/SR "danger".

You can clearly see me mentioning Multi-Channel stereo mode,
in the first post. ;-)

Regarding the Y adapter, when using AVR's LFE pre-out,
I mean the 1 into 2 version, inserted into the sub's L and R inputs.

This potentially gives less interference, since there is only
one cable to run. And it my case quite a short one, 0.75 meters.
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post #4 of 6 Old 01-15-2010, 03:14 PM - Thread Starter
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What do others think? Meanwhile, I will be doing some more research
on the issue and let you know how it went.

P.S. Forgive me this shameless bump...
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post #5 of 6 Old 01-17-2010, 08:15 AM - Thread Starter
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msvara: Have you solved your sub loudness problem?

I don't think this is caused by the length of your cable,
at least not to that extent. Why?

Because impedance of the device's output stage that
feeds your SVS with signal is more than 100 times lower
than the input impedance of SVS amp.

It's not about power transfer, but voltage (signal) transfer.

This is done, so that you possibly can share the
same pre-out that feeds your SVS with many other devices
without overloading (with too high current drain) it.

I suggest you to try the Y adapter instead
and let me know if it helped.

I myself will be doing some tests regarding my case
and let you know if there is any perceptible sound
quality difference between the methods.

Best wishes
Daniel
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post #6 of 6 Old 01-18-2010, 08:13 AM
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Hey _DanielK_. I've been playing around and found a happy medium. I replaced the 100' coax with a 25' higher grade RG6 coax and using a Y splitter but inline to the 8" installed 3 different capacitors 470uf, 220uf and 100uf with different input/outputs to each. I then connected that to the 8" CV sub. My thoughts on this is to create a highpass filter so that only around 80Hz and above goes to the 8" and let the SVS handle all the rest. I set the AVS's xover at 160Hz on the LFE and turned off the LPF on both subs. Then I used just the volume on both to adjust with the typical music/movies I listen to. The subs are on opposite ends of the room behind the couch and blend in nicely.

I'm fairly new to this game but have played with speakers all my life just not to this extent. If you see something wrong with this setup pipe up

Cheers!

How did your test go?

Edit: Forgot to add that I am running the 100uf cap at this time.
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