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post #1 of 41 Old 01-20-2010, 08:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Just wondering what you guys would recommend on a budget of $350 for a sub? The sub will be paired with a set of Paradigm 330 L/R/C, Paradigm ADP surrounds and Paradigm 70 for 2 additional rears. Room size is 12x25 and is in a basement, 1 door and 1 window.

Thanks!
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post #2 of 41 Old 01-20-2010, 08:34 PM
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eD A2-300

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post #3 of 41 Old 01-20-2010, 09:44 PM
 
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Infinity PS212

Bic PL-200

JBL ES150PBK

Polk PSW 505

Bic F-12

Bic VK-12

Bic V-1220
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post #4 of 41 Old 01-21-2010, 01:19 AM
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eD a2-300. Nothing else is close at $350

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post #5 of 41 Old 01-21-2010, 02:05 AM
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Diy
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post #6 of 41 Old 01-21-2010, 02:08 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Menasor View Post

eD a2-300. Nothing else is close at $350

Nothing else close to a medicore 200 watt amp in that price range? Please.
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post #7 of 41 Old 01-21-2010, 02:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rick240 View Post

eD A2-300

This.
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post #8 of 41 Old 01-21-2010, 02:13 AM
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I would definitely shy away from mainstream low-mid level brands. They can use their name to sell their products so quality/design it typically skimped on. That ED sub posted is very impressive though if those figures are accurate.
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post #9 of 41 Old 01-21-2010, 02:14 AM
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Hey diamondbelt, it's not all about power. Some drivers in a certain box will reach xmas at low wattage with excellent output and depth.
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post #10 of 41 Old 01-21-2010, 02:21 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MStrickland1988 View Post

Hey diamondbelt, it's not all about power. Some drivers in a certain box will reach xmas at low wattage with excellent output and depth.

That might be. But without hearing each sub I come into contact with online I can only go by it's specs. And a 200 watt rms power amp is not impressive at all. I would not pay more than 200 dollars for any sub with that size of an amp.

P.S.

What the hell is a Diamond belt?
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post #11 of 41 Old 01-21-2010, 02:24 AM
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You don't get it.
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post #12 of 41 Old 01-21-2010, 02:32 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MStrickland1988 View Post

You don't get it.

You don't get it either.
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post #13 of 41 Old 01-21-2010, 03:16 AM
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Okay, let's see what kind of watts the inferior subs you posted make.

Infinity PS212: 400 watts it probably can't handle and plays down to 25hz.
BIC PL-200: 250 watts
JBL: 300 watts, plays to 27 hz
BIC V1220: 200 watts, 23 hz
BIC f-12: 150 watts, 25hz
BIC VK-12: 250 watts, 24hz
Polk PSW 505: 300 watts 23hz

I'd like to start by pointing out none of them list their output. Second, the difference between 200 watts and 300 watts is essentially nothing. You would need to to 400 watts from 200 to get a 3db gain given the same driver. The Elemental sub is in a league out of all of those subs. It has a better driver, better enclosure, plays far lower, with outstanding output for the price while doing it much cleaner.
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post #14 of 41 Old 01-21-2010, 03:24 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MStrickland1988 View Post

Okay, let's see what kind of watts the inferior subs you posted make.

Infinity PS212: 400 watts it probably can't handle and plays down to 25hz.
BIC PL-200: 250 watts
JBL: 300 watts, plays to 27 hz
BIC V1220: 200 watts, 23 hz
BIC f-12: 150 watts, 25hz
BIC VK-12: 250 watts, 24hz
Polk PSW 505: 300 watts 23hz

I'd like to start by pointing out none of them list their output. Second, the difference between 200 watts and 300 watts is essentially nothing. You would need to to 400 watts from 200 to get a 3db gain given the same driver. The Elemental sub is in a league out of all of those subs. It has a better driver, better enclosure, plays far lower, with outstanding output for the price while doing it much cleaner.

Oh my. Now I know you are not judging these subs purely by their specs without taking other things into consideration and without hearing all them first. Pot calling the kettle?
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post #15 of 41 Old 01-21-2010, 03:55 AM
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I just know Elemental makes awesome subs at a very good price. Don't have to hear the others.
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post #16 of 41 Old 01-21-2010, 08:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diamonddelts View Post

That might be. But without hearing each sub I come into contact with online I can only go by it's specs. And a 200 watt rms power amp is not impressive at all. I would not pay more than 200 dollars for any sub with that size of an amp.

P.S.

What the hell is a Diamond belt?

Its all about effiiency.
The Ed is about 90db efficient in that box(correct me if Im wrong)
Lets compare to something like the PA-120 which is 85db effiicnet at one watt one meter. (again correct me if I'm wrong)

This shows how much power you need to create a given spl at said efficiency.
The Ed
90 db 1w
93 db 2w
96 4w
99 8w
102 16w
105 32w
108 64w
111 128w
114 252 w (clipping?)
The PA-120
85 db 1w
88 db 2w
91 4w
94 8w
97 16w
100 32w
103 64w
106 128w
109 252w(?)
112 504 w(?)


Out of the subs you mentioned, despite what power ratings the manufacturers advertise, I would be shocked if any of those amps could best the ed 200 watt amp on the test bench. Especially the BASH ones. If any of the BIC subs can put out anything over 200 watts rms into low distortion sustained I'd be shocked. The Ed would get over 100db in room through most of its range. And up in the 110s in most rooms at the high end. None of your other suggestions would likelydo that.

Yes I know I sound like an Ed fanboy but I honestly dont believe that any of those subs are real comparisons or offer more real world power or output.

Jeremy
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post #17 of 41 Old 01-21-2010, 08:40 AM
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Outlaw Audio was offering the LFM-1c B-stock for $349 shipped, but it looks like it's out of stock.
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post #18 of 41 Old 01-21-2010, 09:24 AM
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I'm looking for something similar at that price, but I live in an apartment and do not want to disturb the neighbors, which do you recommend?
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post #19 of 41 Old 01-21-2010, 09:54 AM
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Do the eD A2-300's ever go on sale? I would ideally like to spend around $250 or less for a sub, but the A2-300 seems to get amazing reviews. If I could get it for closer to $25-300 at some point that would be awesome.

The one thing I have on my side is that I am not in a rush, but the downside is no one else sells them other than eD.
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post #20 of 41 Old 01-21-2010, 10:04 AM
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The eD for HT focus; the HSU STF-2 for music focus. Simple
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post #21 of 41 Old 01-21-2010, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diamonddelts View Post

Nothing else close to a medicore 200 watt amp in that price range? Please.

Amp ratings are the least important thing when looking at subwoofer specs.
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post #22 of 41 Old 01-21-2010, 12:57 PM
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The eD A2-300 is the most impressive home theater sub in this price bracket by a considerable amount. It has the ability to hit clean lows with authority that is lacking from every other sub I've heard in this range. That said, I think there are better subs for music. It's not that the A2-300 is bad for music by any means, but it's midbass doesn't blend as well as some I've heard. For a truly mixed environment, I really like the Polk PSW-505. My dad picked one up and I installed and calibrated it for him, and even as an A2-300 owner, I was very impressed. I had looked at some of the more recent Polk subs and thought they were way overpriced for their output, but the PSW-505 has the goods to deliver, especially at the $200-$250 price point. It still has nowhere near the output below 30hz that the A2-300 delivers for home theater applications, but is one of the most musical subs I've heard, and still has the capability to hit pretty low despite the falloff. I wonder how much additional output you could get out of a second one, if they could be had for $400? Anyone running dual PSW-505's? The HSU STF-2 is also probably a good suggestion for mixed environments, although I haven't heard one. I really like Hsu's and SVS's higher end options though for mixed media environments, but you won't be able to touch them for under $350.
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post #23 of 41 Old 01-21-2010, 01:03 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Rider View Post

The eD A2-300 is the most impressive home theater sub in this price bracket by a considerable amount. It has the ability to hit clean lows with authority that is lacking from every other sub I've heard in this range. That said, I think there are better subs for music. It's not that the A2-300 is bad for music by any means, but it's midbass doesn't blend as well as some I've heard. For a truly mixed environment, I really like the Polk PSW-505. My dad picked one up and I installed and calibrated it for him, and even as an A2-300 owner, I was very impressed. I had looked at some of the more recent Polk subs and thought they were way overpriced for their output, but the PSW-505 has the goods to deliver, especially at the $200-$250 price point. It still has nowhere near the output below 30hz that the A2-300 delivers for home theater applications, but is one of the most musical subs I've heard, and still has the capability to hit pretty low despite the falloff. I wonder how much additional output you could get out of a second one, if they could be had for $400? Anyone running dual PSW-505's? The HSU STF-2 is also probably a good suggestion for mixed environments, although I haven't heard one. I really like Hsu's and SVS's higher end options though for mixed media environments, but you won't be able to touch them for under $350.

A balanced review by someone who has heard both the ED and an alternative sub. Thanks. Much better than the usual fanboy "the ed rocks and i do NOT need to hear any other subs in this price range" posts that frequent this forum. It's impossible to know how a sub or any piece of audio equipment stacks up against the competition in it's price range unless you have actually heard other alternatives. Going purely by specs without hearing other options is complete nonsense.
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post #24 of 41 Old 01-21-2010, 02:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diamonddelts View Post

A balanced review by someone who has heard both the ED and an alternative sub. Thanks. Much better than the usual fanboy "the ed rocks and I do NOT need to hear any other subs in this price range" posts that frequent this forum. It's impossible to know how a sub or any piece of audio equipment stacks up against the competition in it's price range unless you have actually heard other alternatives. Going purely by specs without hearing other options is complete nonsense.

Hate to split hairs with you but isn't that what you did when you said you wouldn't consider a sub that only has qoute "200 watts"? Isnt that based on a "spec"? And this without knowing what the actual measured power ratings of the other subs were at peak or rms, at what distortion frequency and duration and not to mention what the efficiency of the driver and the enclosure was?

You are absolutely right that you cannot make a complete comparison between two subs without hearing them for yourself..and two people might like the sound of two differnt subs because it is subjective....but in an internet direct world we do rely somewhat on numbers. And those numbers will give you and idea of what a sub will do. But a power rating is one number and only one part of the equation that will determine how a sub will perform.

Noone was telling you shouldn't look at specs, just that you were only looking at one spec and using that as a determination of what was good and what wasn't. And none of those other subs had more powerful amps than the keiga made 200 watter you put down.

Don't think I'm trying to come across like I know it all. Just trying to help. I've been in music and sound for decades but I'm still learning things. You wouldn't believe how much I learned just today asking questions!

Take a quick look over at the diy section at any of the Tuba or THT designs there. You'll see how a few hundred watts can be turned into over 120 db. Not suggesting you go that route but an example of how amplifier power is only partially relevant.

Jeremy
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post #25 of 41 Old 01-21-2010, 02:50 PM
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As mentioned, for $350 you will not get a better sub than the A2-300, period.
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post #26 of 41 Old 01-21-2010, 03:36 PM
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You still don't get it.
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post #27 of 41 Old 01-21-2010, 03:46 PM
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Bose Bass module or nothing!

they are so bad@$$ they dont even need listed specs!

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I have no idea what you are referring to
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post #28 of 41 Old 01-21-2010, 03:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antwon412 View Post

Bose Bass module or nothing!

they are so bad@$$ they dont even need listed specs!

In this case I believe bass is referring to the fish, because it certainly has nothing to do with low frequency sound!

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post #29 of 41 Old 01-21-2010, 03:50 PM
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LOL, bose.
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post #30 of 41 Old 01-21-2010, 06:45 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MStrickland1988 View Post

You still don't get it.

Blah, blah. I never said that I felt a sub's amp was the end all, be all. However I personally do not like smaller amps. Even in high efficiency enclosures. Are these amps better than garbage, mass market bash amps? I'm sure they are. But that is not saying much.

But in my opinion all manufacturers lie or inflate their specs. So when I see supposedly big 500 watt or 1000 watt amp being touted I take it as a grain of salt because I am sure real world results will show something much different in terms of peaks, dips, continuous draw etc. So a amp with a much lower spec rating on any component just gives me a bigger grain of salt to take with it in terms of real results.

In some cases you might be blown away by something with less impressive stats on paper or underwhelmed by something with monster specs and less than impressive output, clarity, excessive shaking due to cheap enclosure material etc. So my point is the only way to really know what these subs can do is to audition them in person. If you discount a particular sub because of a certain spec you might be making the same mistake I am being accused of making here.

But also if you start spouting off at the mouth about how great a product is that you YOURSELF have not heard due to merely specs listed on a website then yeah your mistake is just about as bad as the latter I listed earlier.

You also proclaim you are a diy noob. I find it funny that a guy with your background is trying to give me a lecture on the basics of sub's when I have paid my rent for the last 4 months after being laid off by building subs for other people on craigslist. And I'm talking heavy duty enclosures with dual firing 18's etc. You would not even know the ED was on when these are firing.
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