Originally Posted by toddalin
To tell the truth, I am more inclined to believe Bob's reputation and writings of the various publications than a bunch of Internet guys.
Like I said, don't believe us dumb internet guys that know nothing and have owned nothing.
I am not in the category, but some of the 'internet guys' around here have engineered and designed some of world's best drivers and designs. Some of the guys here ARE the guys that work for companies like Velodyne, SVSound, Epik, TC Sounds, Audyssey, Danley Sound, Rythmik, Elemental Designs, etc. And many of the guys here have HT setups that are in the 10s and 100s of thousands of dollars and have tried more subs than many even know exist.
I am sure Bob Carver is VERY knowledgeable as well. But, you have to remember he is going after a very specific market segment...micro subs.
If he built and 18" driver in a 24" cube with 2500w it would do well. But he is not after that market, it is very crowded there.
EVERY design is a compromise and EVERY design has its limits.
You can't overcome physics, the trade off is in a cube that small you are going to get the limitations of that design. It is plain and simple.
I am not knocking them or anyone here that owns them. This is not a personal attack on anyone, just facts.
They do well despite their size, that is for sure. I am just telling it like it is. There is a price of that small size. Big bass is about moving lots of air. The less surface area, power, etc. you have the less you move. My iPod earbuds can go to 20Hz, but they can't fill more than my ear canal with bass. If you try to make them play larger than they are you get distortion and plenty of it. I can design a driver of any size go down to whatever freq you want. The problem lies in how much SPL it can do it at without melting down or yielding tons of THD.
But, like I said why take our word for it. Take a listen for yourself.
What is even more interesting about subwoofers is that many people actually prefer more distortion and interpret that as a fuller sound, especially for HT.
It makes the movie effects sound more robust. And if you have nothing to compare it to you don't know it.
When one gets used to that sound and compare to something like a servo-based setup on a Velodyne or Rythmik they often think they are not as loud or don't sound as good. Then when they are tested they find out that the THD is 30-80% on the low end, which is not uncommon at all.
I remember when I compared one of my first subs, a Velodyne CT-120 to an HGS-15 for the first time, what a different world! The rest is history, a dozen or more subs later....