SVS Sealed Subs... - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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post #271 of 817 Old 07-30-2010, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by jaeelarr View Post

So wait...SVS has prided themselves on being "USA built" in Ohio, and now they are doing all their production in China? AND they are charging seemingly MORE for their products?

Has anyone confirmed this? Are they still built in the USA, or are they now another "real, genuine, American" designed product that is built in China?

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post #272 of 817 Old 07-30-2010, 06:03 PM
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Read their last two releases, sounds like everything is coming out of Asia/Taiwan...

 

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post #273 of 817 Old 07-30-2010, 07:04 PM
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Read their last two releases, sounds like everything is coming out of Asia/Taiwan...

Yup I get that feeling as well.
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post #274 of 817 Old 07-31-2010, 02:54 AM
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WOW, so closing down their US factory and putting Americans out of work, then price creep heading into Velodyne territory.
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post #275 of 817 Old 07-31-2010, 04:06 AM
 
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Originally Posted by William View Post

WOW, so closing down their US factory and putting Americans out of work, then price creep heading into Velodyne territory.

Why should their prices stay at the levels for which new competitors target? I think that they have been building excellent subs long enough to compete at velodyne prices. Also, their quality, performance, and reliability are better. Even though I would never buy any of the new subs at those prices. It appears SVS is at a crossroads.
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post #276 of 817 Old 07-31-2010, 04:51 AM
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Originally Posted by mdm1699 View Post

Why should their prices stay at the levels for which new competitors target? I think that they have been building excellent subs long enough to compete at velodyne prices. Also, their quality, performance, and reliability are better. Even though I would never buy any of the new subs at those prices. It appears SVS is at a crossroads.

Velodyne goes through a network of dealers where SVS is internet direct.

Unless SVS has come across such a technological breakthrough that it makes their new designs a couple levels above everybody else's they're going to have a hard time competing with other internet direct companies.

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post #277 of 817 Old 07-31-2010, 07:00 AM
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Man. I have to totally dissagree with the bashing going on here. SVS still has their lower priced ported subs. These are sealed. When i compare the sb12-nsd to its competiters i think it beats them. I mean, its a one foot cube and can hit 20Hz for $700!
I agree they have some solid competiton from Epik and Rythmik but im withholding judgement because SVS has built their name on affordable quality and i just cant see them throwing that business model out the window.

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post #278 of 817 Old 07-31-2010, 07:55 AM
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Man. I have to totally dissagree with the bashing going on here.

bashing? who's bashing?

people are just stating their opinions, not bashing anyone

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Originally Posted by brian6751 View Post

name on affordable quality and i just cant see them throwing that business model out the window.

why not ? it happens all the time. companies get a good name on affordable quality then decide they want more

if it works, good for them

if not they'll make changes

IMO they took a turn for the good by putting out a full line of sealed subs. they noticed the ported fad was fading and made changes but on the flip side at these prices they are not going to be very competitive as you can see by most of the posts here since the prices were released

for what they are going to charge for the sb16 you could get a whole room full of epik Legends and end up with smoother in-room response and possibly better SQ

time will tell

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post #279 of 817 Old 07-31-2010, 08:02 AM
 
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Originally Posted by JimP View Post

Velodyne goes through a network of dealers where SVS is internet direct.

Unless SVS has come across such a technological breakthrough that it makes their new designs a couple levels above everybody else's they're going to have a hard time competing with other internet direct companies.

As a customer, what do I care about how many middlemen add to the markup. I only care about what I am getting for a bottomline price. Velodyne does not measure up to SVS in terms of value, quality, or reliability. I am now a proud Epik owner. However, that does not change what SVS stands for. Their ability to squeeze maximum performance from what I now consider small drivers is amazing. Albeit beefy drivers. Finally, they may be internet direct but their network and support costs money. Former SVS owner but I will not put them down for making decisions necessary to faciliate a going concern.
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post #280 of 817 Old 07-31-2010, 08:07 AM
 
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Originally Posted by otk View Post

bashing? who's bashing?

people are just stating their opinions, not bashing anyone



why not ? it happens all the time. companies get a good name on affordable quality then decide they want more

if it works, good for them

if not they'll make changes

IMO they took a turn for the good by putting out a full line of sealed subs. they noticed the ported fad was fading and made changes but on the flip side at these prices they are not going to be very competitive as you can see by most of the posts here since the prices were released

for what they are going to charge for the sb16 you could get a whole room full of epik Legends and end up with smoother in-room response and possibly better SQ

time will tell

Some folks don't want 2, much less 2+, subs. Also, they want support on a dime and finer finishes than most ID offer. Listen, I would love a SB16 or Seaton Submersive at Empire price. However, it is NOT going to happen. They cater to a different customer. What is wrong with that? The world doesn't revolve around mini-cooper sized subs, 2+ subs with equalizers/bass traps/etc, and matte finishes. Get over it!
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post #281 of 817 Old 07-31-2010, 08:26 AM
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Originally Posted by otk View Post



for what they are going to charge for the sb16 you could get a whole room full of epik Legends and end up with smoother in-room response and possibly better SQ

time will tell

You just compared two different types of customers. Someone who is looking at the sb16 does not want a room full'o sub. These are aimed at customers who are looking for maximum performance with minimal footprint. Their cylinders were the only dog they have had in this fight except for the sb12-plus and that got rave reviews. The sb12-nsd supposedly is even better.

I was definatley looking for best bang for my buck while not taking up a lot of space. I went with a pc12-nsd personally but if i did not like the look of the cylinder i would probably have waited for the sb12. Why that instead of say an Epik legend? I dont know. The same reason people buy Mercedes instead of BMW i guess.

If anything, SVS sure has A LOT of options for customers now. I cant wait for these things to get reviewed.

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post #282 of 817 Old 07-31-2010, 09:36 AM
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I do think these new sealed SVS subs are going to perform very well. They have good build quality (finishes), good power, a strong driver and DSP which is not cheap. On the other hand, a lot of companies have stepped up their game is the last 2-3 years, specially in the sealed subs design. You now have the Submersive w/2,400watts + DSP and dual 15" drivers for less than the SVS SB16. You could also get dual Empire's, Rythmik F15's, ULS-15's, Graig's new 18.1's for less money than one SB16. This is a much more competitive environment for sure.
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I do think these new sealed SVS subs are going to perform very well. They have good build quality (finishes), good power, a strong driver and DSP which is not cheap. On the other hand, a lot of companies have stepped up their game is the last 2-3 years, specially in the sealed subs design. You now have the Submersive w/2,400watts + DSP and dual 15" drivers for less than the SVS SB16. You could also get dual Empire's, Rythmik F15's, ULS-15's, Graig's new 18.1's for less money than one SB16. This is a much more competitive environment for sure.

Differentiation. This is why there is a new amp with new features not offered by anyone else. Their current PB13 ultra outperforms many larger subs. I expect the SB16 to kick some serious sonic butt while requiring less than a NASA engineer to set it up. I hope there is a raffle for one, even at a discount.
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post #284 of 817 Old 07-31-2010, 11:19 AM
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mdm1699, I do hope you're right on the SB16 performance/technology. I'm sure that soon enough they are going to be out and compared vs the competition head on to see how it fares.
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post #285 of 817 Old 07-31-2010, 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by otk View Post


for what they are going to charge for the sb16 you could get a whole room full of epik Legends and end up with smoother in-room response and possibly better SQ

time will tell

Exactly what we used to say about people the PB13 vs the JL Fathom 113. "For the price of a F113 you could buy 2 PB13's"..

In any event, will be interesting to see how long the pricing lasts, which will tell people whether they're struggling to sell these. I was interested in dual SB13's or SB16's before deciding to build my own dual sealed, firstly because it looked like the sealed subs were too far away, though at these prices for dual SB13's I'd be over $1,000 vs what I spent and for dual SB16's, well, who knows how much (depends whether it's $2600 or $4000 each, and add another $100 to $200 for the CDN cost).

Not sure if I'll have the same amount of performance out of my boxes, but just couldn't justify those kinds of dollars for the amount of time I have to spend listening to this stuff!

 

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post #286 of 817 Old 07-31-2010, 09:29 PM
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I don't doubt that SVS can design a good product, regardless of where it is made. If you want a sealed sub now, should you wait though? My answer to that would definitely be no. There are plenty of other sealed sub's out there that will be comparable in performance and price, so there is really no point in waiting for SVS to release some of their sub's when there are no solid dates for anything other than the SB12-NSD plain finish. My guess is that the SB12-Plus will be out for the end of this year, SB13 beginning of next year, and the SB16 will be out for summer of next year.... but then that is me being conservative with my guestimations hehe.
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post #287 of 817 Old 07-31-2010, 09:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Bravo,

Actually the order which these new sealed models will be released and shipping is:

SB12-NSD

SB13-Plus

SB12-Plus

SB16-Ultra

The 12nsd should be shipping within the next month or two with the SB13 just behind it. The 12-plus should be fall and no new information has come out on the 16-ultra but I would guess 2011 on that.

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post #288 of 817 Old 08-01-2010, 04:40 AM
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I just can't buy into the idea of high end/priced Chinese built speakers. Especially from an internet only company that prided itself on a high performance to price ratio and built in the USA.

While Asian based companies have done a fantastic in most fields high end/quality speakers is one they have never mastered. What makes SVS think that Chinese built subs can be as high a quality as those built in their (soon to be closed with workers laid off?) US factory?

I have been waiting long on the SB-16 but my criteria is.

1. High performance/build quality (would have gone on SVS's reputation but not willing to bet on some OEM's from China)

2. Price/value (looks like SVS is out of this game too).

3. US (or North American/Europe) build (lets face it, North American's or European's build high quality/great sounding speakers and Asian countries are known for NOT building the best speaker systems)

After all this waiting looks like SVS is out for me.
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post #289 of 817 Old 08-01-2010, 06:04 AM
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Our BASH amps have been made in Asia for the last few years. They were formerly made in Canada until Indigo was purchased by Sonavox. Our new DSP amps are either made in China (400D) or Taiwan (800D/1000D).

Our S-series speakers have always been made in Asia.

Most of our subwoofer cabinets have always been made in Asia, with the exception of textured black which is made in the USA.

Our M-series cabinets are made in Asia. The crossovers are designed and engineered by SVS and made in the USA. The drivers are made either in Denmark or in Asia. Final assembly of M-series speakers is performed by SVS in the USA.

Cylinder subwoofer enclosures are made by SVS in the USA.

Our woofers are designed, engineered, custom tooled, and built by SVS using nearly all proprietary parts. We have a woofer build shop in the USA and we have a woofer build shop in Asia. Both are staffed and/or supervised by SVS employees.

Final assembly of subwoofers is done in the USA, Taiwan, or China depending on dealer demand and global distribution channels. Typically orders for USA/Canada/EU/UK/SA are fulfilled in the USA. Conversely, orders for China/Taiwan/Korea/Malaysia/India are typically fulfilled in Asia. It makes little sense logistically to ship cabinets/amps/woofers to the USA to fulfill Asia orders because there would be two legs of shipping.

SVS-USA is not closing of course; rather we've essentially cloned our USA operation in Asia to more efficiently and quickly fulfill orders in those regions of the globe.

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post #290 of 817 Old 08-01-2010, 07:13 AM
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and how does that make you look good exactly?
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post #291 of 817 Old 08-01-2010, 07:40 AM
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As someone who has dealt with / managed this type of thing personally, Asian manufacturing does not automatically equal poor quality. In fact, it is companies that don't know how to manage their manufacturing operations in Asia that causes poor quality. There are many companies that manufacture in Asia and are well known for quality. Nikon comes to mind.
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post #292 of 817 Old 08-01-2010, 07:42 AM
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SVS had a launch of their new sealed subs in Singapore yesterday. Some pics were uploaded to a local forum here: http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/1264488/+980
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post #293 of 817 Old 08-01-2010, 08:42 AM
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Originally Posted by AlmondNut View Post

...manufacture in Asia and are well known for quality. Nikon comes to mind.

Does Nikon make speakers My post clearly stats that on almost all products Asian manufactures have fantastic products. However speakers have never been one of them.
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post #294 of 817 Old 08-01-2010, 08:59 AM
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Does Nikon make speakers My post clearly stats that on almost all products Asian manufactures have fantastic products. However speakers have never been one of them.

I don't disagree. My point was that just because that may be the case, it doesn't mean Asians can't make speakers. It likely means that few or no speaker manufacturers have taken the time to master management of overseas manufacturing and quality control. That is, maybe people should reserve judgement against SVS' new products until the actually hear and see them.
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post #295 of 817 Old 08-01-2010, 09:02 AM
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I thought most of B&W loudspeakers are made in China. Krell integrated amp S300i is made in China too. Klipsch Synergy and Reference IV are being made in China, IIRC.

Btw, the biggest pick-up lens plant is in China too. To be fair, there are rising numbers of very good audio and build quality audio products from China. Shanling Audio is being one of the fine example.

Taiwan has been one of the major electronic and electrical parts manufacturers. I am not surprised that many other sourced from them.

I was attached to a Japanese MNC for a few years more than a decade ago. Then, it expanded its wings to China. It just performs excellently although there were minor hiccups during the start of its operation in Xiamen, Dongguan, Dalian and Shenzhen.

As long as there is a system and strict control of the manufacturing process and QC, there will be little impact.

Anyway, not all Mercedes Benz and BMW are being produced and made in Germany. Globalization has been creating opportunities for other nations to thrive and to upgrade its capabilities and infrastructure in order to compete in global platform scale. Oops... getting off track now.

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post #296 of 817 Old 08-01-2010, 09:19 AM
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After all, I took a plunge yesterday and ordered an SB13 plus in the pre launch event.
ETA mid Sep.
If it's 'good' and living up to standards, I would take another unit for .2 set up.

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post #297 of 817 Old 08-01-2010, 09:45 AM
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After all, I took a plunge yesterday and ordered an SB13 plus in the pre launch event.
ETA mid Sep.
If it's 'good' and living up to standards, I would take another unit for .2 set up.

Where were they taking pre-orders? At the show in Singapore? What was the pre-order price? Thanks.
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post #298 of 817 Old 08-01-2010, 10:47 AM
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Will believe it when I see it Sorry it's just a case of someone crying wolf way too many times. Even the pictures that were posted looked like pre-production models which some of those have been around for years now.
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post #299 of 817 Old 08-01-2010, 11:18 AM
 
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Does Nikon make speakers My post clearly stats that on almost all products Asian manufactures have fantastic products. However speakers have never been one of them.

This is part of what is wrong with this world today. Grown ass men crying like friggin babies. If it is not for you move the (*&$(%& on. You have choices. Exercise them. The point Ed was making was that some components (of already proven quality and reliable products) were already made outside the US. Some components are made here. Most if not all are designed/spec'd here. Next you will be asking them what their margins are. What is wrong with you friggin people? Sheesh! I have owned the PB10NSD, current PB12 Plus, older SB12-Plus, and older PC12-Ultra. I have NEVER known them to cut corners on their components. Who cares if they are assembled on Mars.
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post #300 of 817 Old 08-01-2010, 01:31 PM
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This is part of what is wrong with this world today. Grown ass men crying like friggin babies...

Play nice, no where in my posts does it say I'm grown, a man or crying like a friggin baby.
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