Paradigm, HSU or otherwise... Help my dad please - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 24 Old 03-02-2010, 04:37 PM - Thread Starter
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My dad has Paradigm monitor 7, matching center and surrounds. All are the latest version with an onkyo 607.

Room is square which sucks its 14x14 with 9 ft ceilings
One smaller entrance way and a fairly large window
75 % MUSIC 25% DVD TV
He wants to buy a Paradigm DSP 3100 because of cost and size which I dont think he even seen one in person. Only reason he wants this sub is he figures he can hear and demo it.

I told him to just get a HSU VTF 1 and he would be much more happy, at least per reviews I have read.

What sub would you recomend? I think if he went with Paradigm he needs at least a DSP 3200. I think the HSU VTF 1 would be better and cheaper.

Whats your thoughts? I told him there is no guarntee they will even have the DSP 3100 to demo. He enjoys music the most so I figure HSU is the way to go. Help me so I can share your insight with him.
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post #2 of 24 Old 03-02-2010, 05:28 PM
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After looking at alot of subs and reading reviews I decided to try the HSU 3.3 and could not be happier. If you bring cost into the factor I don't think the Paradigm can match the HSU for bang for the buck.
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post #3 of 24 Old 03-02-2010, 06:36 PM
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I have not heard the hsu vtf 3 but i own the hsu vtf 2 currently and i find it a bit lazy for music.

I have heard the paradigm sub 12 which i found a lot superior to my hsu for music... also i own a psb 5i which i found a lot better for music compared to the hsu as well.

From my research/readings i gather rythmik subs are very good for music as well... and very cost effective compared to the paradigms. I have not heard the rythmik yet so cannot confirm my findings.
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post #4 of 24 Old 03-02-2010, 07:08 PM - Thread Starter
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thanks for your responses so far budget is under $500 plus or minus. He doesnt care about the brand, just wants it to sound good with his set up. Advice is def. appreciated
this stuff can drive you nutz.

I own an Ultracube 12 and my area is very large. I have it with new atoms front, cc190, adp 170's, onkyo 607. I am very pleased but my sub was also over $800 bucks new. I love the looks of my Ultracube and so does the gf. I think its great with music and descent with movie. Some would want more slam for ht I think...
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post #5 of 24 Old 03-02-2010, 07:12 PM
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I currently have a psb 5i < 300 sub for my 2 channel in my office. It does not go below 27hz -3db. I have it plugged in to my ht setup currently it does sound good but with movies it loses steam as its not powerful enough and it does not go low enough. I find for music this sub is very good for its price.

Another sub the svs sb12 plus (now discontinued) is very good for music... it does not go low again its sealed but for movies it does not lose steam and sounded decent with movies as well.
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post #6 of 24 Old 03-02-2010, 07:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Any owners of the Paradigm DSP 3100 or 3200 on here? Looking for some comments...thoughts with this room and equipment above
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post #7 of 24 Old 03-02-2010, 07:18 PM
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In 500 plus or minus he could look at an eDA5s-300 which is a sealed 12 inch 500 watts shipped at $550, or A2-300 12 inch ported 200 watts $350 shipped. Both would be excellent for the money.
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post #8 of 24 Old 03-02-2010, 07:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by porksoda View Post

I have not heard the hsu vtf 3 but i own the hsu vtf 2 currently and i find it a bit lazy for music.

I have heard the paradigm sub 12 which i found a lot superior to my hsu for music... also i own a psb 5i which i found a lot better for music compared to the hsu as well.

From my research/readings i gather rythmik subs are very good for music as well... and very cost effective compared to the paradigms. I have not heard the rythmik yet so cannot confirm my findings.

i have a hsu vtf2 MK3 and it sounds awesome for music once you dial in the levels correctly. i dont use it anymore with my LS6s but when i had my MA RS6s i would sometimes go back and forth and would think my speakers had gained extra bass somehow but then realized i had my system set to 2.1 and the sub was blending almost seamlessly.
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post #9 of 24 Old 03-02-2010, 07:52 PM
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I have a DSP-3100. Its the first piece i bought for my HT. I got it for 400. I love it and its made a world of difference for my HT. My room is a 22 x 22 with cathedral ceilings and the 3100 is not lacking for me. I am no expert. You should be able to get a 3200 for that price. I just added some Signature S2's and they sound great together. I have not listened to a HSU so i cant comment if that is better or worse. The 3100 can be purchased with the PBK (perfect base kit) which will tune your sub to your room.
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post #10 of 24 Old 03-02-2010, 08:13 PM
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I have a 3100 as a loaner until the 3400 arrives.

I find it's very good to excellent for music and very good for HT. Musically it's great for all but the lowest bass and blends very well with my Monitor 9s. It does tend to stumble a bit with very deep HT effects, like war of the worlds, for example but is otherwise fine.

One thing I like about the dsp series is that they are front ported which makes placement easier. I intend to build the 3400 into a cabinet when it arrives.

Doug
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post #11 of 24 Old 03-02-2010, 08:16 PM - Thread Starter
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njandy you think the 3200 can be had in the $400 range new? where do you shop? mike I live near princeton but dont mind driving. Let me know I went over the bridge into pa for m Ultracube and had to haggle and use another dealer farther away to get the best price.

How would the dsp 3100 3200 compare with that cheaper ed sub mentioned above?
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post #12 of 24 Old 03-02-2010, 08:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gotchaforce View Post

i have a hsu vtf2 MK3 and it sounds awesome for music once you dial in the levels correctly. i dont use it anymore with my LS6s but when i had my MA RS6s i would sometimes go back and forth and would think my speakers had gained extra bass somehow but then realized i had my system set to 2.1 and the sub was blending almost seamlessly.

try a more articulate sub side by side on the system you will notice the difference immediately... that's what happened to me and i am in the market for another sub.
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post #13 of 24 Old 03-03-2010, 01:36 AM
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I apologize in advance if this seems like dumb advice. Living in central NJ (as your tag says) you will assuredly be able to find a quality subwoofer in the used market. Subs seem to hold up pretty well through one or two previous owners. As long as it's not too old, it should be plug and play, so to speak.

My rationale: An $800 sub (used for $500) will usually outperform a $500 new sub.

That said...If I had the money, I would never buy a single used item again.

I previously owned a $499 subwoofer and in comparison to a $1,000 subwoofer, it seemed like a $50 sub. Just remember that price is only the amount you pay, and doesn't necessarily dictate results.

Just for reference, is he looking to maximize SPL, or just even out the sound and add some dynamic?

Where did all my money go?
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post #14 of 24 Old 03-03-2010, 04:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geek From NJ View Post

njandy you think the 3200 can be had in the $400 range new? where do you shop? mike I live near princeton but dont mind driving. Let me know I went over the bridge into pa for m Ultracube and had to haggle and use another dealer farther away to get the best price.

How would the dsp 3100 3200 compare with that cheaper ed sub mentioned above?

Geek,

I got mine from the sound exchange in sommerville. Mine was a floor demo and they were willing to negiotiate. I have been seeing 3200's in the 4's pretty regularly. I just found this site (google is your friend) http://www.tsto.com/Paradigm_DSP_340...fer_p/3231.htm that has the 3400 in your price range and the 3100 well below.

Andy
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post #15 of 24 Old 03-03-2010, 05:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jac86 View Post

I apologize in advance if this seems like dumb advice. Living in central NJ (as your tag says) you will assuredly be able to find a quality subwoofer in the used market. Subs seem to hold up pretty well through one or two previous owners. As long as it's not too old, it should be plug and play, so to speak.

My rationale: An $800 sub (used for $500) will usually outperform a $500 new sub.

That said...If I had the money, I would never buy a single used item again.

I previously owned a $499 subwoofer and in comparison to a $1,000 subwoofer, it seemed like a $50 sub. Just remember that price is only the amount you pay, and doesn't necessarily dictate results.

Just for reference, is he looking to maximize SPL, or just even out the sound and add some dynamic?


Even out the sound... He's in his 70's and does'nt crank it up, at least not when I am there. haha The focus would def. be on music and rounding out the sound with good quality bass. Guys thank you for your responses!
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post #16 of 24 Old 03-03-2010, 05:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by njandy View Post

Geek,

I got mine from the sound exchange in sommerville. Mine was a floor demo and they were willing to negiotiate. I have been seeing 3200's in the 4's pretty regularly. I just found this site (google is your friend) http://www.tsto.com/Paradigm_DSP_340...fer_p/3231.htm that has the 3400 in your price range and the 3100 well below.

Andy

Hi Andy & thanks for your responses back. I bought my setup there minus the subwoofer. Jerry's so called sales price was the same as other dealers asking price. I really do like Jerry but he is fairly far away from me and another dealer is within 10 minutes. He took care of me on the speakers price wise but the sub price was just a turn off. Otherwise I have nothing bad to say about that place or the owner. You just need to neg with him.

What speakers do you own? I live in Ewing if you ever wanted to hear what my Atoms sounded like with my Ultracube 12. For small speakers I feel they sound excellent. But after listening to my father Monitor 7's there is a huge difference in sound quality. And he does'nt have a sub yet!
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post #17 of 24 Old 03-03-2010, 08:28 AM
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HSU has my vote, but SVS and eD are excellent choices as well.
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post #18 of 24 Old 03-03-2010, 09:47 AM
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I would suggest that you make sure any sub you buy has a single band parametric eq. Due to room being square it is going to have a huge peak in the 60 hz range that you will want to cut using the filter. A little higher in price, but the Rythmik F12G has a parametric.
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post #19 of 24 Old 03-03-2010, 02:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Well I went and auditioned the DSP 3100 which in my opinion sucked. The room was pretty large but the DSP was almost at its max and had little to offer. I ddont know how someone could be excited over this sub especialy msrp. No DSP 3200 to try and when I asked about the DSP 3400 he said its not hooked up. It's like dude grab a cable and llet me hear and be the judge. He said he only sold a few and that the Ultracube 12 smokes it. Well thats nice to hear as I onw the Ultracube but I did want to give it a listen. I dont know why they keep this salesman as he just doesnt know ****. He was like I sell tons of 3100 and no 3200, I was like why. He said because once a client gets into that price range they buy better Paradigm subs like the Ultracube. I asked him about new lines of Paradigm speakers and he was clueless. I should work there! Anyway the DSP 3100 did not excited me in the slightest degree.

No way my dad is going to buy an ED sub so it looks like an HSU model. Only because he has heard of them and read reviews in magazines. I dont know what to do...

And that salesman just bothers me... Maybe he wants a major install sale and my potential sub sale is a waste of his time. He should be glad I stopped in as I never see any customers in there. blah blah blah
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post #20 of 24 Old 03-03-2010, 04:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geek From NJ View Post

Hi Andy & thanks for your responses back. I bought my setup there minus the subwoofer. Jerry's so called sales price was the same as other dealers asking price. I really do like Jerry but he is fairly far away from me and another dealer is within 10 minutes. He took care of me on the speakers price wise but the sub price was just a turn off. Otherwise I have nothing bad to say about that place or the owner. You just need to neg with him.

What speakers do you own? I live in Ewing if you ever wanted to hear what my Atoms sounded like with my Ultracube 12. For small speakers I feel they sound excellent. But after listening to my father Monitor 7's there is a huge difference in sound quality. And he does'nt have a sub yet!

Wow stay away from the studio 20's and up then. I listened to studio 20's next to upper spectrum monitors and it was like air vs mud. Ended up with studio 60's used.
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post #21 of 24 Old 03-03-2010, 05:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Geek From NJ View Post

No DSP 3200 to try and when I asked about the DSP 3400 he said its not hooked up. It's like dude grab a cable and llet me hear and be the judge.

No way my dad is going to buy an ED sub so it looks like an HSU model. Only because he has heard of them and read reviews in magazines. I dont know what to do...

The guy who doesn't want to do the work and hook up a cable obviously doesn't want to sell the sub, or thinks you are willing to buy without hearing. Same thing happened to me at a dealer and I left empty handed because he wouldn't go the extra mile.

Hsu makes a great sub so he won't be dissappointed. Why wouldn't you dad buy an eD, nothing wrong with a quality american made product.
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post #22 of 24 Old 03-03-2010, 05:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by DoubleATheater View Post

The guy who doesn't want to do the work and hook up a cable obviously doesn't want to sell the sub, or thinks you are willing to buy without hearing. Same thing happened to me at a dealer and I left empty handed because he wouldn't go the extra mile.

Hsu makes a great sub so he won't be dissappointed. Why wouldn't you dad buy an eD, nothing wrong with a quality american made product.


which one ru thinking
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post #23 of 24 Old 03-03-2010, 07:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Geek From NJ View Post

which one ru thinking

I think that the subs from ID companies will outperform and have better customer service in the same price range. I think your dad can't go wrong with HSU, SVS, eD, Epik, Rythmik, etc. I've owned subs from 3 of those companies, but also owned and auditioned B&M brands as well. I'm biased but I like the bang for the buck of ID, especially at entry and mid level subs.

You or your dad should give a few of these companies a call, ask their opinion and chat for a minute. They are fantastic and stand behind their product 100%. The problem with these companies (which is a bonus and my experience) is they won't try to upsell or con you into buying their product, they want happy customers who will refer their friends and family.
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post #24 of 24 Old 03-04-2010, 03:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by DoubleATheater View Post

In 500 plus or minus he could look at an eDA5s-300 which is a sealed 12 inch 500 watts shipped at $550, or A2-300 12 inch ported 200 watts $350 shipped. Both would be excellent for the money.

How would these 2 ED's compare to the HSU VTF1? Thats what HSU responded as their recomendation. Looking to order up soon
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