Emotiva Ultra Subwoofers - Page 22 - AVS Forum
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post #631 of 703 Old 10-05-2011, 03:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishpoke View Post

First FR graph I've seen of the xref 12 - http://emotivalounge.proboards.com/i...y&thread=19783

Emotiva now has measurements on their site. For the flat curves it looks like the xref 10 has a 29 hz -3db point and the xref 12 around a 26 hz -3db point. Very flat out to 150 hz. They also have movie curves (low end boosted about 6 db and a couple of custom eq curves.
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post #632 of 703 Old 10-05-2011, 03:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glangford View Post

Emotiva now has measurements on their site. For the flat curves it looks like the xref 10 has a 29 hz -3db point and the xref 12 around a 26 hz -3db point. Very flat out to 150 hz. They also have movie curves (low end boosted about 6 db and a couple of custom eq curves.

A half power point of 26 Hz is nothing to brag about, not when you can get flat to <20 with PB-12 NSD.
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post #633 of 703 Old 10-05-2011, 03:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spyboy View Post

A half power point of 26 Hz is nothing to brag about, not when you can get flat to <20 with PB-12 NSD.

True, but you're comparing a ported sub with a sealed sub.
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post #634 of 703 Old 10-05-2011, 07:41 PM
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I have to say... compared to the specs of their last line of subs those charts are completely underwhelming, honest, but damn I would expect for 700 at least stay flat to 25hz without room gain.

Me thinks svs & rythmik are going to see a boost in sales for a while. Emotiva kinda shot themselves in the foot when they stopped selling ultra 10's... one of the few budget subs to be had for under 300.
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post #635 of 703 Old 10-05-2011, 07:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spyboy View Post

A half power point of 26 Hz is nothing to brag about, not when you can get flat to <20 with PB-12 NSD.

You can get flat to <20 as long as it works. The PB12 was possibly the biggest piece of **** JBL ever made. It's amp was prone to fry in a matter of months. To even put the PB12 on the same level as the X-Ref 12 is laughable. In one corner, you have a larger ported sub and in the other, you have a smaller sealed sub. I highly doubt the PB12 sounds as tight and clean as the X-Ref 12.

After reading these reviews, why would you even want to buy this sub?

http://www.amazon.com/JBL-PB12-250-W...ews/B000051SEW
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post #636 of 703 Old 10-05-2011, 11:49 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaeelarr View Post

True, but you're comparing a ported sub with a sealed sub.

It should be compared to the SB12-NSD (sealed sub).
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post #637 of 703 Old 10-06-2011, 01:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ObsceneJesster View Post

You can get flat to <20 as long as it works. The PB12 was possibly the biggest piece of **** JBL ever made. It's amp was prone to fry in a matter of months. To even put the PB12 on the same level as the X-Ref 12 is laughable. In one corner, you have a larger ported sub and in the other, you have a smaller sealed sub. I highly doubt the PB12 sounds as tight and clean as the X-Ref 12.

After reading these reviews, why would you even want to buy this sub?

http://www.amazon.com/JBL-PB12-250-W...ews/B000051SEW

He's talking about the PB-12NSD from SVS, not the JBL sub.

Dumb enough to spend lots of cash on this junk!
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post #638 of 703 Old 10-06-2011, 02:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Auditor55 View Post

It should be compared to the SB12-NSD (sealed sub).

That one is 23 hz - 3db.
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post #639 of 703 Old 10-06-2011, 03:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glangford View Post

That one is 23 hz - 3db.

So the SVS (on paper)digs deeper? Perhaps Emotiva placed more emphasis on output over extension?
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post #640 of 703 Old 10-06-2011, 03:45 AM
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No maybe about it, the Emo sacrificed both size and output for size to reduce shipping costs. Get a real sub. And I'm a fan of Emotiva electronics, just not their subs.
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post #641 of 703 Old 10-06-2011, 04:29 AM
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This would make a nice mid-bass unit. Price is still steep though.

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post #642 of 703 Old 10-06-2011, 11:20 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glangford View Post

That one is 23 hz - 3db.

Still not flat down the 20hz like the PB12 (ported). So that means its not a real sub.

And Oh btw, the SVS SB-12 weighs only 38 pounds and cost more than X-12.
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post #643 of 703 Old 10-06-2011, 11:22 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Theresa View Post

No maybe about it, the Emo sacrificed both size and output for size to reduce shipping costs. Get a real sub. And I'm a fan of Emotiva electronics, just not their subs.

What's a real sub?
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post #644 of 703 Old 10-06-2011, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishpoke View Post

Me thinks svs & rythmik are going to see a boost in sales for a while. Emotiva kinda shot themselves in the foot when they stopped selling ultra 10's... one of the few budget subs to be had for under 300.

I too think Emotiva did themselves a big disservice when they dropped the U10, because that left them with nothing under $400. I'm not sure if SVS and Rythmik are really going to benefit much from it, since they don't sell anything that cheaply. Hsu might though.

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post #645 of 703 Old 10-06-2011, 12:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Auditor55 View Post

What's a real sub?

The defining characteristics of a real sub depends on who you ask.

Tom Nousaine who has professionally tested hundreds of subs and who has an IB system capable of 129 db, would tell you that the octave from 12.5 Hz to 25Hz is important.

Those whose primary focus is music get along nicely with small sealed subs that have a half power point of ~30 Hz....

Lots of other people find that a sub capable of usable output at 16 hz is the point of diminishing returns.
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post #646 of 703 Old 10-06-2011, 01:04 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spyboy View Post

The defining characteristics of a real sub depends on who you ask.

Tom Nousaine who has professionally tested hundreds of subs and who has an IB system capable of 129 db, would tell you that the octave from 12.5 Hz to 25Hz is important.

Those whose primary focus is music get along nicely with small sealed subs that have a half power point of ~30 Hz....

Lots of other people find that a sub capable of usable output at 16 hz is the point of diminishing returns.

I was wondering about that since Theresa made a statement implying that the X-12 isn't real sub. I don't know about her but my X-12 certainly sounds good to me. I'm positive their are better subs out there, but for the space that I have and content that I like this subs so far, does the job.
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post #647 of 703 Old 10-07-2011, 02:42 AM
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I'm looking for a good musical sub. 20 hz is not a requirement. a double bass low 'C' is 32.7 hz and on a bass guitar, low 'E' is 41.2 hz. Almost all content in music is above 30 hz.

Except for some pipe organs, that have a low note of 18 hz, there is little need for 20 hz when looking for a musical sub. The emotiva xref 10 is high on my list to supplement a pair of paradigm studio 10s.
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post #648 of 703 Old 10-07-2011, 03:24 AM
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How big is your room? I have found that my Emotiva Ultra 10 (older model) works great in my 10 x 12 bedroom
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post #649 of 703 Old 10-07-2011, 04:30 AM
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Pretty large great room. But I'm looking at the 10s more to match the small bookshelves than I am the room size. Also on the list is the velodyne minivee with much higher power levels.
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post #650 of 703 Old 10-07-2011, 06:29 AM
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Going to be interesting to see what the xref 15 will do... I imagine its going to be near 4 figures as far as price is concerned. I may snag one assuming it preforms better than the previous xrefs, DSP is a nice bonus at that price point. That or getting VTF-15H.
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post #651 of 703 Old 10-07-2011, 06:33 AM
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The ultra 10 is enough for music alone in a small bedroom, you'd love the xref 10. In my case ultra 10 stays flat to 35hz then begins its gradual roll off with good extension down to 30hz and useable bass down to 25hz... good transients as well.
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post #652 of 703 Old 10-07-2011, 06:49 AM
 
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Guys, all of these sealed subs have EQ to set the -3dB wherever they want to. The response doesn't matter unless you have no way to change it and it doesn't work with your room. The moment the sub gets in your room it's -3dB point will change, and then throw something like an Audyssey auto-cal at it and it'll change again.

What is important is how much output you have at say 20Hz comparing one to the next. If you have those numbers, then you can discuss something that actually matters.

Getting "flat to X" is meaningless if there's not enough output at that point. Any of these guys (SVS or Emotiva) could have EQ'd their subs to have a -3dB point of 10Hz, but that would be ridiculous because you'd have no headroom to actually get usable output from the sub.
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post #653 of 703 Old 10-07-2011, 06:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BiGBADDABOOM View Post

Guys, all of these sealed subs have EQ to set the -3dB wherever they want to. The response doesn't matter unless you have no way to change it and it doesn't work with your room. The moment the sub gets in your room it's -3dB point will change, and then throw something like an Audyssey auto-cal at it and it'll change again.

What is important is how much output you have at say 20Hz comparing one to the next. If you have those numbers, then you can discuss something that actually matters.

Getting "flat to X" is meaningless if there's not enough output at that point. Any of these guys (SVS or Emotiva) could have EQ'd their subs to have a -3dB point of 10Hz, but that would be ridiculous because you'd have no headroom to actually get usable output from the sub.

We have a winner here.
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post #654 of 703 Old 10-07-2011, 06:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Theresa View Post

No maybe about it, the Emo sacrificed both size and output for size to reduce shipping costs. Get a real sub. And I'm a fan of Emotiva electronics, just not their subs.

What is a real sub? For music applications, you would be hard pressed to find a sub the size of the X-Ref 12, dig as deep while still sounding accurate and tight. In my situation, I would much rather have a sub that hides away between my two couches and gets down to 20Hz with decent output than to have a sub the size of a end table that gets down to 18Hz. I have two X-Ref 12's hidden away in my HT. I promise you, with their output combined, they equal more than a so called real SUB.

When it comes to music, I'd take a sealed box with a built in equalizer any day over a ported one.
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post #655 of 703 Old 10-07-2011, 07:10 PM
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Listened to two of them today at Emotiva HQ in Franklin. One word, awesome. I also met Dan Laufman, shook his hand, and bought my new XPA-5 along with 5 sets of rca's and a free HDMI, my origional reason for going there today. What a great day I had. Matt Wall was the sales rep that provided me a great opportunity to listen to all of the Emotiva stuff that was in their theater room. It is a great company, friendly and willing to bend over backwards to help a new customer become a long time customer. My new amp is still in it's box, I know, I should be hooking it up. I have to rearrange my equipment in order to make this beast of an amp fit along with a medical issue where lifting is not a real good idea. I borrowed a hand cart from the school I work at to get it in the house. (90 lbs). Should have it running tomorrow. More reviews then. Speakers are B & W 603 S3's. A little over kill in the amp department but it's better then the amps in the Denon 2807 I was using. In the near future I will get the EMC 1. Eventually an XF-12 will accompany to replce my ASW 600. Then my system should be complete.

Main System:
Panasonic - VIERA / TCP55VT50
Emotiva XPA-5 X-Ref 12 sub
Denon X4000
Oppo BDP 93
B & W N804 Mains, 603 Rear surrounds, LCR 600 Center, ASW 600 sub, B & W CDS6 S3 rear heights
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post #656 of 703 Old 10-07-2011, 07:55 PM
 
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Originally Posted by ObsceneJesster View Post

What is a real sub? For music applications, you would be hard pressed to find a sub the size of the X-Ref 12, dig as deep while still sounding accurate and tight. In my situation, I would much rather have a sub that hides away between my two couches and gets down to 20Hz with decent output than to have a sub the size of a end table that gets down to 18Hz. I have two X-Ref 12's hidden away in my HT. I promise you, with their output combined, they equal more than a so called real SUB.

When it comes to music, I'd take a sealed box with a built in equalizer any day over a ported one.

You decided keep the 2nd X-Ref.
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post #657 of 703 Old 10-07-2011, 08:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Auditor55 View Post


You decided keep the 2nd X-Ref.

Kind of a long story. Lets just say I got real lucky. Yes I kept the second one. One was more than enough for my 18x16x8 room but I like over kill. When playing music, I only turn the subs up to +2 but when playing movies and games, they get pumped up to +5. After its broken in, ill go higher. To be honest though, they don't need to go any higher. Im just curious how much output I can get out of these duelies. My room gain is off the chains and my goal is to try and hit 16Hz@100db with two small subbies.
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post #658 of 703 Old 10-08-2011, 03:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BiGBADDABOOM View Post

Guys, all of these sealed subs have EQ to set the -3dB wherever they want to. The response doesn't matter unless you have no way to change it and it doesn't work with your room. The moment the sub gets in your room it's -3dB point will change, and then throw something like an Audyssey auto-cal at it and it'll change again.

What is important is how much output you have at say 20Hz comparing one to the next. If you have those numbers, then you can discuss something that actually matters.

Getting "flat to X" is meaningless if there's not enough output at that point. Any of these guys (SVS or Emotiva) could have EQ'd their subs to have a -3dB point of 10Hz, but that would be ridiculous because you'd have no headroom to actually get usable output from the sub.

Yes, all this is true, however, the controlled test point published of a sub provides the purchaser the ability to judge its capabilities on a level playing field with other subs. Yes with room gain and audyssey it may get lower than the 25 hz @ -3db, but will it get lower than one with the same power and a controlled test of 18 hz @ -3 db? Probably not.

Its also an indication when comparing subs of what its ultimate capability will be. At some point physics will get in the way, and the manufacturers tests are a fair way of showing when that might be for their controlled test environment.
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post #659 of 703 Old 10-08-2011, 10:42 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glangford View Post

Yes, all this is true, however, the controlled test point published of a sub provides the purchaser the ability to judge its capabilities on a level playing field with other subs. Yes with room gain and audyssey it may get lower than the 25 hz @ -3db, but will it get lower than one with the same power and a controlled test of 18 hz @ -3 db? Probably not.

Its also an indication when comparing subs of what its ultimate capability will be. At some point physics will get in the way, and the manufacturers tests are a fair way of showing when that might be for their controlled test environment.

How about a sub that's sounds good in your room. This one does.
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post #660 of 703 Old 10-11-2011, 11:16 PM
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Hi, has anyone had experience with the Emotiva Ultra 12 and Definitive Technology Supercube I subwoofers, how do they compare? what would you choose if they were the same price?
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