Official JTR Orbit Shifter Subwoofer Thread - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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post #271 of 1199 Old 10-25-2010, 01:08 PM
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I'm now working with a freight shipping company that can deliver an Orbit Shifter to CA from Chicago for around $260 or a pair for around $350.
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post #272 of 1199 Old 10-25-2010, 02:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLion View Post

Right now I am considering the upcoming 18" version of the Submersive. I am looking for the sound signature of sealed designs. I have lived with SVS PB13 for some years now (considered one of the better vented designs) and ended up with putting it into sealed mode. There is no way back for me.

How does the Orbit Shifter compare to a sealed design in terms of sound signature (eg. transient response)? I know I put it overly simple and there are dozens of parameters which influence SQ on a subwoofer besides it being vented, sealed or some kind of band pass design.

I guess my question is: For which applications do you consider the Orbit Shifter (multiples of it) a better option than a "dual opposing sealed design" (multiples of it)?

The Orbit Shifter is very tight sounding, similar to a sealed design. The problem with sealed subwoofers is that they naturally start rolling off early (50-80hz range) so it would take several to keep up with an Orbit Shifter (above 25hz) however a sealed subwoofer rolls off more gradually so multiple sealed subwoofers could have an output advantage down in the single digit range.
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post #273 of 1199 Old 11-04-2010, 03:27 PM
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I'm looking for some constructive criticism so please email or pm me your thoughts and ideas. Thanks.
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post #274 of 1199 Old 11-04-2010, 04:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Permanian View Post

I'm looking for some constructive criticism so please email or pm me your thoughts and ideas. Thanks.


Not that I'm complaining () but a passive version might have more mass appeal.

It really is one great sub Mr. P.
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post #275 of 1199 Old 11-04-2010, 05:42 PM
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Jeff,

The sub to me just get better and better... I have no complaint, except that it is quite large.. I am now using it as my sofa table
One recommendation is to add the phase delay knob. It is much easier to use the knob than manually add "distance" to the SW output setting in AVR. Also, if I have 2 of these, than there is no way for me (Except an outboard EQ) to have different delay setting.
Another thing I would like to see is an even lower "tuning" for deeper base. This will be useful for some of us that use the OS for ULF (i..e xover at 50Hz or lower) and we let the speakers to do 50-60+ Hz (T12HT).
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post #276 of 1199 Old 11-05-2010, 06:54 AM
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The amplifier has the capability of having 2 different programs so I'll write a lower tuned program. Free feel to send in the amplifier for software updates.

Corner loading will add serveral feet to the horn's length. RMK's only need a couple filters to pull down the top end and it was flat to below 10hz.

Its best to have seperate control over each subwoofer in the room so I'd recommend a proccessor with the ".2" or out board DSP.
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post #277 of 1199 Old 11-05-2010, 09:27 PM
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Jeff, how low is it tuned to and what's the FR compared to the current programming?

BTW, attached is my FR graph. This is using REW and an uncalibrated mic, so I can only go down to 10Hz before the noise level take over... If I get a calibrated one, it should be better. Notice that without EQ, my room response is crazy !!

I personally like PRESET5 for action/bass heavy movies (Ironman2, HTTYD etc) It gives me a lot of punch.. For Avatar, I do like a PRESET4 which is more flat though.
LL
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post #278 of 1199 Old 11-05-2010, 09:55 PM
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I'm currently out of OS so I'll have to wait a couple weeks until I can play with some lower tuning. Honestly, I like it where it is though because there is enough extra topend to be able to eq really nice and flat. Going with the theory that its better to take out than add.
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post #279 of 1199 Old 11-05-2010, 10:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Permanian View Post

I'm currently out of OS so I'll have to wait a couple weeks until I can play with some lower tuning. Honestly, I like it where it is though because there is enough extra topend to be able to eq really nice and flat. Going with the theory that its better to take out than add.

Thanks jeff. As you can see, since I have a lot of room gain, I would very much like to trade those for lower extension.
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post #280 of 1199 Old 11-09-2010, 10:09 AM
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I was playing around with audessey today, I took six points of measurements.
It set the sub at 28 ft, I sit 11 ft from the sub.

Do I need to add another 14ft to that distance????

Also it set the sub at -15db, is that right???
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post #281 of 1199 Old 11-09-2010, 09:32 PM
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14 feet plus 11 = 25 feet......28 feet is prety dang close, dont add any more. how does it sound? Mine OS is set at the halfway point whatever that might be.
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post #282 of 1199 Old 11-10-2010, 06:43 AM
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It sounds good, although I have no way of measuring the changes. I have an onkyo 876 with dynamic eq engaged. I did bump up the spl level to 0 or 6+db on the avr and volume knob on the sub amp to half way, depending on the material Iam watching.
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post #283 of 1199 Old 11-13-2010, 10:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bodhisafa View Post

I was playing around with audessey today, I took six points of measurements.
It set the sub at 28 ft, I sit 11 ft from the sub.

Do I need to add another 14ft to that distance????

Also it set the sub at -15db, is that right???

Sounds about right so you wouldn't have to add another 14 ft. Some people like a little more bass and raise the sub level to taste.
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post #284 of 1199 Old 11-13-2010, 10:52 AM
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There is so many cool things about the Orbit Shifter.

In the audible range it would take multiples of an other subwoofers to equal an Orbit Shifter's output and is +/-1db.

In the inaudible range the Orbit Shifter will extend its low end into the single digits because the room itself acts as an extension of the horn.

Then there is the sound quality that is tight, punchy and extremely acurate.
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post #285 of 1199 Old 11-13-2010, 05:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Permanian View Post
Sounds about right so you wouldn't have to add another 14 ft. Some people like a little more bass and raise the sub level to taste.
But if the onkyo set to -15db on the sub level, then you have the gain on the sub too high. -15db is the max adjustment.

Sean
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post #286 of 1199 Old 11-13-2010, 09:47 PM
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How do I fix the gain?
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post #287 of 1199 Old 11-13-2010, 10:02 PM
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There should be an adjustment on your subwoofer amp it might be volume, gain, level and maybe some other name. someone who owns one should be able to tell you but based on the onkyo reading its clearly not correctly matched to your AVR. Its running hot.

Sean
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post #288 of 1199 Old 11-14-2010, 08:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bodhisafa View Post

How do I fix the gain?

The OS has a volume knob and you should lower the OS amp volume and re-run Audyssey so that you are not at the maximum (as Sean said) -15 on the Onkyo. If you have and SPL meter (if you don't, you should get one) you can check the speaker/sub levels after running Audyssey and adjust to taste.
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post #289 of 1199 Old 11-14-2010, 08:52 AM
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Where should the volume knob be before and after audessey
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post #290 of 1199 Old 11-14-2010, 09:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bodhisafa View Post

Where should the volume knob be before and after audessey

The idea is to reduce the volume on the OS amp so that Audyssey is not making the maximum level cut (-15db) on the Onkyo. You should drop the OS volume by say 10 and see how that works. Then leave the OS volume knob alone and if needed, adjust the sub level in the speaker setup menu of the Onkyo.

Audyssey should set the levels correctly and you may not need to adjust anything.
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post #291 of 1199 Old 11-14-2010, 07:22 PM
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Re-ran audessey again with the only difference being the volume knob on the OS set to between 24 and 36 on the dial.

All the settings were the same except now the sub trim is set to -2.5db compared to -15db before.

Is this better?
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post #292 of 1199 Old 11-15-2010, 07:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bodhisafa View Post

Re-ran audessey again with the only difference being the volume knob on the OS set to between 24 and 36 on the dial.

All the settings were the same except now the sub trim is set to -2.5db compared to -15db before.

Is this better?

It is better in the sense that you now know that the level setting that Audyssey assigned the LFE channel is correct. When it was -15 db (the max cut of the Onkyo) you could have needed more cut to level match and not known it.

An SPL meter is a good tool to have to verify the level settings and even tweak to taste. How does it sound?

BTW, that setting (between 24 and 36 on the OS amp) is where Jeff originally set my OS's and it is still the setting I use.
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post #293 of 1199 Old 11-15-2010, 06:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

It is better in the sense that you now know that the level setting that Audyssey assigned the LFE channel is correct. When it was -15 db (the max cut of the Onkyo) you could have needed more cut to level match and not known it.

An SPL meter is a good tool to have to verify the level settings and even tweak to taste. How does it sound?

BTW, that setting (between 24 and 36 on the OS amp) is where Jeff originally set my OS's and it is still the setting I use.

Agreed
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post #294 of 1199 Old 11-16-2010, 02:46 AM
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Good deal http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls....ubw&1292979285

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post #295 of 1199 Old 11-17-2010, 07:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post


An SPL meter is a good tool to have to verify the level settings and even tweak to taste. How does it sound?

BTW, that setting (between 24 and 36 on the OS amp) is where Jeff originally set my OS's and it is still the setting I use.


Been trying some music and movies with the new settings as stated above and I have to say I do not like what I hear. It sounds like the sub is not even on. I then bumped the sub up to 6db hot on the avr and got just enough out of it to hear something. But even then it was still very minute. With the old setting I could shake the room and make my neighboor angry.

Old setting (no eq): os volume knob at half way or a little more and 0db to 6db hot on avr.

New setting (eq onkyo 876): os volume knob at 24 and 36 and -2.5db to 6db on avr.

I was told I was running the sub the wrong way previously, what can I do?
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post #296 of 1199 Old 11-17-2010, 08:07 PM
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My OS is set between 10 and 12 on the amp. My Lexicon is set arround -14 and I am right arround 75 db output with the RS meter. Movies rock the room.
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post #297 of 1199 Old 11-18-2010, 04:53 AM
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I have an spl meter from RS, I will check the levels
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post #298 of 1199 Old 11-18-2010, 07:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bodhisafa View Post

I have an spl meter from RS, I will check the levels

Try measuring from different locations in the room. Sounds like you might have a null at the LP as I would think that is the only thing that could account for the lack of bass at those settings.
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post #299 of 1199 Old 11-18-2010, 02:46 PM
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Measured 10 main spots(refer to pic). Used Radio shack digital meter cat.no. 33-2055

EQ settings according to Onkyo 876:
OS dial between 24 36, avr at spl-2.5db, speakers -12db spl75db

SPL readings: (1) 74 (2) 70 (3) 69 (4) 69 (5) 71 (6) 71 (7) 69 (8) 66 (9) 66 (10) 66
According to the meter I was not even close to 75db on the sub, not sure why audessey set the sub to -2.5db?



So I bumped the sub level on the avr to +2.5db while using the meter in order to get 75db. Keeping everything else the same (amp dial and speaker settings). This is what I got.

SPL readings: (1) 79 (2) 75 (3) 74 (4) 73 (5) 75 (6) 77 (7) 73 (8) 72 (9) 70 (10) 71

After doing the bump on the avr to +2.5db I was able to hear the bass and feel it a little.

I played a few movie scenes with eq and without eq using the new +2.5db sub setting and this is what I got. At position 2 (LP)

Iron Hide flip Transformer Eq 97db no Eq 107db
War of the worlds Pod Emerg. Eq 85db no Eq 93db
Cloverfireld Eq 100db no Eq 106db

The sound of the bass with the +2.5db 75db setting is better as I can actually hear something without wondering if the sub is on compared to before.

Also, I turned the OS dial up to 10 while leaving the sub at +2.5db but got 85db on the spl meter and got a massive jump in performance. Was hitting 116-117db on the SPL meter on some of the same scenes.

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post #300 of 1199 Old 11-18-2010, 02:53 PM
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To summarize:

1) Originally audessey setting of -2.5db and leaving the OS dial between 24 and 36, did not give me 75db on the meter.

2) Setting the avr sub level to +2.5db and leaving the OS dial between 24 and 36 gave me 75db roughly at position 2.

3) Setting the avr sub level to +2.5db and turning the OS dial to 10 gave me roughly 85db at position 2. Even more bass, window rattles, vibrations.

My onkyo 876 cuts down on the bass a substantial amount with eq vs. no eq.
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