NEW MFW-15 amps (May 2010) *pics* - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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Old 07-05-2010, 06:08 PM
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Did anyone ever find out if AV123 and Emotiva are the same company?
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Old 07-05-2010, 06:38 PM
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They are not and never were. At one time Mark Schifter spoke as if Emotiva was an internal brand developed by AV123 (similar to how he described his connection to Onix and their Reference speaker line), but after things went south with the LMC-1 and there was a business disagreement about a batch of bad sub amps the two companies publicly acknowledged that Emotiva was a separate company spun off from Jade Design in Nashville TN. There has been no business relationship between the two that I am aware of for probably three or four years.

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Old 07-05-2010, 07:09 PM
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Originally Posted by gonk View Post

They are not and never were. At one time Mark Schifter spoke as if Emotiva was an internal brand developed by AV123 (similar to how he described his connection to Onix and their Reference speaker line), but after things went south with the LMC-1 and there was a business disagreement about a batch of bad sub amps the two companies publicly acknowledged that Emotiva was a separate company spun off from Jade Design in Nashville TN. There has been no business relationship between the two that I am aware of for probably three or four years.

What about their latest MFW-15's? The v3 version. AV123 claims these are now complately built in the USA. There's been speculation I guess that these amps are produced by the same company that makes the amps for emotiva's subs. I guess if you think about it though, wouldn't that maybe be kind of silly? Seeing as how Emotiva is an amp building company?

The v3's have very similar looking knobs on their amps that the Emotiva subs have on theirs! As seen in page 1 of this thread. Both companies introduced their new knobs at around the same time as well!

Hmm........ I suppose it is possible that AV123 buys their knobs from the same guys that Emotiva does.

1 Mitsubishi WD-82642 82" TV
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2 Definitive Technology BP2004TL's (Mains)
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Old 07-05-2010, 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted by obie_fl View Post

Doesn't sound like transformer hum more like a ground loop. My first thought would be to disconnect your cable connection and or satellite dish feeds. I'm talking the physical coax coming from the street or the dish outside.

Thanks Obie. I will give it a try tomorrow. Just curious as to why u think its a ground loop issue and not the transformer. What are the signs for each? What other things I can try? Thanks
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Old 07-05-2010, 08:34 PM
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Originally Posted by yadfgp View Post

What about their latest MFW-15's? The v3 version. AV123 claims these are now complately built in the USA. There's been speculation I guess that these amps are produced by the same company that makes the amps for emotiva's subs. I guess if you think about it though, wouldn't that maybe be kind of silly? Seeing as how Emotiva is an amp building company?

As I understand it, Emotiva doesn't directly own any manufacturing resources at all - and definitely no domestic manufacturing resources. As far as I've ever heard, all of Emotiva's products are built in China.

Now I do believe that Tweak City Audio was planning to have their sub amps built by the same company that is building the new MFW-15 amps (QSC Systems in Colorado). Again, different company that is using a common supplier. Also, I believe that Tweak City has changed suppliers and are no longer going to be using QSC.

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The v3's have very similar looking knobs on their amps that the Emotiva subs have on theirs! As seen in page 1 of this thread. Both companies introduced their new knobs at around the same time as well!

Hmm........ I suppose it is possible that AV123 buys their knobs from the same guys that Emotiva does.

I would want more than just the appearance of the knobs to indicate company ties. Knobs are pretty generic. QSC certainly isn't going to manufacture their own plastic knobs - they are going to buy them in bulk from some supplier, likely a Chinese source that could easily be shipping similar knobs to a factory in China that is building sub amps for the factory that builds Emotiva's subs.

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Old 07-10-2010, 08:18 PM
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Klipsch have they received your amp yet? Wondering if they found a problem yet
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Old 07-12-2010, 04:23 PM
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I posted this in the Emotiva Subs thread:

I currently have two MFW-15s (I know...) in a room of about 5000 cu. ft. I've gone through several amps and one driver, but I haven't had any problems in almost a year. In fact, they perform very well, but I'm a little worried about their long-term successful operation.

How much of a downgrade do you think two Ultra 12s would be?
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Old 07-12-2010, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by paligap View Post

I posted this in the Emotiva Subs thread:

I currently have two MFW-15s (I know...) in a room of about 5000 cu. ft. I've gone through several amps and one driver, but I haven't had any problems in almost a year. In fact, they perform very well, but I'm a little worried about their long-term successful operation.

How much of a downgrade do you think two Ultra 12s would be?

I would get 2 Seaton-Sandbagger Turbo kits or even just one now (I know it would be 600 more than you were looking to spend for both) I upgraded mine and it was a significant improvement. I am talking not even in the same league
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Old 07-12-2010, 06:36 PM
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I'm sure the turbo kits are awesome, but to be honest, I don't think I need that much horsepower. My two stock MFWs blow me away as they are. There is also the matter of cost--what, $800 each?

I'm thinking that I could live with a little less horsepower, get a great deal with a good warranty, and maybe unload my MFWs. That's why I'm wondering how much of a downgrade it would be from 2 MFWs to 2 Ultra 12s.
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Old 07-12-2010, 09:30 PM
 
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Originally Posted by paligap View Post

I'm sure the turbo kits are awesome, but to be honest, I don't think I need that much horsepower. My two stock MFWs blow me away as they are. There is also the matter of cost--what, $800 each?

I'm thinking that I could live with a little less horsepower, get a great deal with a good warranty, and maybe unload my MFWs. That's why I'm wondering how much of a downgrade it would be from 2 MFWs to 2 Ultra 12s.

What about a single turbo'd MFW? Same output you have now, half the footprint, better SQ and reliability.
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Old 07-12-2010, 09:54 PM
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Well I just got my B Stock today with a v3 in it and I must have gotten a dud but its not the same dud KH got at least.

If I use the LFE plug, with the gain all the way to its lowest setting, there is no hum, now if i even turn it just the slightest bit, say to the 7 or 8 o'clock position, a hum is present, and gets much louder the more i turn the knob. Thus making the LFE plug useless.

If I use either line in plugs there is absolutely no hum period, no matter how high the gain is.

Now in terms of output, measuring for SPL's no matter which plug I use, either of the line in's or the LFE, the output in SPL at least is the same. All 3 are exactly comparable in terms of what they output volume wise. They do get progressively louder the more I max out the gain but it's only by a few db's overall. I didn't mess with it too much, but it seems as though it doesn't get that much louder the more I turn the gain.

Now I already have 1 MFW with a v2 in it that has never had issues and I can really crank it. I had another MFW with a v2 in it that I sold to a friend that was the same way as well.

The v3 definitely cannot match the sheer output of my v2. Even if I turn the gain all the way up on it it's still maybe 5 db's quieter than my v2 which I have at around the 11:30 position. I could easily run it a bit higher and it would still perform great.

1. So basically my v3 can hum really loud ONLY if I use the LFE port.

2. The gain has to be completely maxed out, and even then it is about 5 db's quieter than my v2 at it's 11:30 position.

3. So it definitely runs cool. My v2 would get really hot but not too hot that you couldn't keep your hand pressed to it np'o.

4. Maybe this matters, maybe it doesn't but when I pulled the sub out of the box, the bolt (the only bolt on the amp.) was just hanging in the amp loosely. I was able to pull it right out. I tried to take out the amp but noticed I need a torx screw driver for this which I don't have, but I will buy 1 tomorrow. When I lifted the sub I heard what must have been the nut bouncing around in there that was supposed to be secured to the loose bolt.

I thought I'd at least take out the amp and see if securing that bolt and anything else in there to see if this helps with my sub.

I guess for the most part, the sub is fine, amp runs nice and cool, if I use a line in, there is no hum period, it's just that it's about 5 db's quieter than my v2 though, and that's at its max volume.

Also, I happened to have ordered 1 other B Stock, that will be delivered later this week so hopefully that 1 is fine. Anyways I'll at least have something to compare to the other 1 with.

1 Mitsubishi WD-82642 82" TV
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2 Definitive Technology BP2004TL's (Mains)
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Old 07-12-2010, 10:59 PM
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Well out of boredom, sitting here waiting for a response and thinking over what to do, I went back out and messed around to see if I could fix things at all.

I moved my new v3 sub over to where I am planning to put my other v3 sub that is coming in later this week. And using a different power cable, and a different rca cable, plugged into a different outlet, I plugged the rca into the LFE port and the hum is now gone! If I crank the gain all the way there is absolutely no hum period, using the LFE port.

So I dunno if it was 1 of the cables that was causing the hum, or maybe the outlet, but at least the hum is gone end of story.

The output is noticeably higher to. I ran some test scenes from a movie, and I can now get it as high as where I run my v2 MFW at so I can at least level match the output on both.

Whew! Just wanted to update on my findings in case anyone had read my last thread. Gonna mess around a bit more and see if I can find out what caused that damn hum and see if the output is as good as the v2 is. It's tough to tell which has the better SQ, to me they sound about the same so far.

UPDATE : After some messing around I guess the new sub is ok, gotta get the amp out though, can't be good having that loose bolt in there like that. The hum is non existent with the LFE output and I can get the same level of SPL with the v3 that I have with my v2. Going to bed for now.

1 Mitsubishi WD-82642 82" TV
1 Onkyo TX-NR929 11.4 setup
2 Emotiva XPA-5's
1 Emotiva XPA-100
1 Definitive Technology CLR 3000 (Center)
2 Definitive Technology BP2004TL's (Mains)
2 Definitive Technology ProMonitor 1000's (Heights)
6 Definitive Technology BPX's (Rears Wides Sides)
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Old 07-13-2010, 06:36 AM
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Originally Posted by yadfgp View Post

Well out of boredom, sitting here waiting for a response and thinking over what to do, I went back out and messed around to see if I could fix things at all.

I moved my new v3 sub over to where I am planning to put my other v3 sub that is coming in later this week. And using a different power cable, and a different rca cable, plugged into a different outlet, I plugged the rca into the LFE port and the hum is now gone! If I crank the gain all the way there is absolutely no hum period, using the LFE port.

So I dunno if it was 1 of the cables that was causing the hum, or maybe the outlet, but at least the hum is gone end of story.

The output is noticeably higher to. I ran some test scenes from a movie, and I can now get it as high as where I run my v2 MFW at so I can at least level match the output on both.

Whew! Just wanted to update on my findings in case anyone had read my last thread. Gonna mess around a bit more and see if I can find out what caused that damn hum and see if the output is as good as the v2 is. It's tough to tell which has the better SQ, to me they sound about the same so far.

UPDATE : After some messing around I guess the new sub is ok, gotta get the amp out though, can't be good having that loose bolt in there like that. The hum is non existent with the LFE output and I can get the same level of SPL with the v3 that I have with my v2. Going to bed for now.

I believe that bolt might be the bolt holding the transformer to the back plate. If so the transformer is hanging loose in there resting on who knows what. This could definitely cause and/or contribute to a hum from em interference crossing over into the signal path depending upon what the transformer is resting against. I would recommend gently pulling the amp and not use it any more until you find out, shorting out due to wire stress from the transformer flopping around in there would be BAD. Also don't overtighten the bolt/nut, barely snug, or enough to keep it from moving on the plate, if you tighten it too much you could short out the windings.
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Old 07-13-2010, 07:10 AM
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Originally Posted by NicksHitachi View Post

I believe that bolt might be the bolt holding the transformer to the back plate. If so the transformer is hanging loose in there resting on who knows what. This could definitely cause and/or contribute to a hum from em interference crossing over into the signal path depending upon what the transformer is resting against. I would recommend gently pulling the amp and not use it any more until you find out, shorting out due to wire stress from the transformer flopping around in there would be BAD. Also don't overtighten the bolt/nut, barely snug, or enough to keep it from moving on the plate, if you tighten it too much you could short out the windings.

Thanks Nick, that's more or less what I concluded as well. I wasn't sure if that was the transformer due to my lack of knowledge on electronics but I figured it was. I haven't used the sub much just in case due to it's current state. Gonna buy a torx set today and then work on the amp tonight. Till then the subs remained off and unused till this gets taken care of. Thanks for your advice

1 thing I did notice in some of the pictures of the amp, is that it appears as though the transformer does have 4 screws going around it to hold it in place, and the bolt is just there in the middle for extra support or whatsoever so hopefully the transformer isn't just lose in there without that bolt holding it in there like it is supposed to.

1 Mitsubishi WD-82642 82" TV
1 Onkyo TX-NR929 11.4 setup
2 Emotiva XPA-5's
1 Emotiva XPA-100
1 Definitive Technology CLR 3000 (Center)
2 Definitive Technology BP2004TL's (Mains)
2 Definitive Technology ProMonitor 1000's (Heights)
6 Definitive Technology BPX's (Rears Wides Sides)
4 CHT VS-18.1 Subs
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Old 07-13-2010, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by yadfgp View Post

Well out of boredom, sitting here waiting for a response and thinking over what to do, I went back out and messed around to see if I could fix things at all.

I moved my new v3 sub over to where I am planning to put my other v3 sub that is coming in later this week. And using a different power cable, and a different rca cable, plugged into a different outlet, I plugged the rca into the LFE port and the hum is now gone! If I crank the gain all the way there is absolutely no hum period, using the LFE port.

So I dunno if it was 1 of the cables that was causing the hum, or maybe the outlet, but at least the hum is gone end of story.

I had a similar thing - sort of. No problem on the right side of the room with hum, then moved to the left side with an extension cable and got a slight hum. Then I added a new sub to the loop and got a big hum. Put the new sub to a different line and moved the MFW back to its original location and poof NO HUM, NO PROBLEM. That ground loop hum thing is a pain. I am happy though as now I can sell it. I did not want to sell thinking it was an amp issue.

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Old 07-13-2010, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Bud84ro View Post

Klipsch have they received your amp yet? Wondering if they found a problem yet

I was promised a label back on 6/25 and have been so busy I haven't asked them why they haven't sent it to me yet.

I just wrote them asking for one now, they'll need to get it to me quick because I plan on being in a campground this Friday through Sunday taking it easy for the first time in a very long time. I'm going to start a fire and pretty much sit there and watch it, go fishing, then watch the fire, pet the dog a bit, watch the fire some more....

I contend that for a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle. -- Winston Churchill
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Old 07-13-2010, 01:32 PM
 
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I was promised a label back on 6/25 and have been so busy I haven't asked them why they haven't sent it to me yet.

I just wrote them asking for one now, they'll need to get it to me quick because I plan on being in a campground this Friday through Sunday taking it easy for the first time in a very long time. I'm going to start a fire and pretty much sit there and watch it, go fishing, then watch the fire, pet the dog a bit, watch the fire some more....

I think you left out the most important part, DRINK BEER in between watching the fire and fishing, and petting the dog.
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Old 07-13-2010, 01:40 PM
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I think you left out the most important part, DRINK BEER in between watching the fire and fishing, and petting the dog.

I thought that was a given? Per my wife I never just sit and do nothing, so while holding and drinking a brew is kind of doing something I don't think she'll count it.

I contend that for a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle. -- Winston Churchill
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Old 07-13-2010, 06:41 PM
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Thanks Nick, that's more or less what I concluded as well. I wasn't sure if that was the transformer due to my lack of knowledge on electronics but I figured it was. I haven't used the sub much just in case due to it's current state. Gonna buy a torx set today and then work on the amp tonight. Till then the subs remained off and unused till this gets taken care of. Thanks for your advice

1 thing I did notice in some of the pictures of the amp, is that it appears as though the transformer does have 4 screws going around it to hold it in place, and the bolt is just there in the middle for extra support or whatsoever so hopefully the transformer isn't just lose in there without that bolt holding it in there like it is supposed to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by yadfgp View Post

Well out of boredom, sitting here waiting for a response and thinking over what to do, I went back out and messed around to see if I could fix things at all.

I moved my new v3 sub over to where I am planning to put my other v3 sub that is coming in later this week. And using a different power cable, and a different rca cable, plugged into a different outlet, I plugged the rca into the LFE port and the hum is now gone! If I crank the gain all the way there is absolutely no hum period, using the LFE port.

So I dunno if it was 1 of the cables that was causing the hum, or maybe the outlet, but at least the hum is gone end of story.

The output is noticeably higher to. I ran some test scenes from a movie, and I can now get it as high as where I run my v2 MFW at so I can at least level match the output on both.

Whew! Just wanted to update on my findings in case anyone had read my last thread. Gonna mess around a bit more and see if I can find out what caused that damn hum and see if the output is as good as the v2 is. It's tough to tell which has the better SQ, to me they sound about the same so far.

UPDATE : After some messing around I guess the new sub is ok, gotta get the amp out though, can't be good having that loose bolt in there like that. The hum is non existent with the LFE output and I can get the same level of SPL with the v3 that I have with my v2. Going to bed for now.

Ok got home today with my new trox screwdriver set, took out the amp, and yup, low and behold, there was the transformer laying there in the floor of the amp, and the bolt was nearby as well. Didn't see any damage as far as I could tell from the transformer just laying there like that, so all looks good. Secured the transformer to the amp, but not too tight, it's a tad loose, just tight enough where you can twist the bolt with your fingertips, but just barely. Put the amp back in, and then moved the sub BACK to where I originally had it to see if the hum was still there. Plugged the rca cable into the LFE port, turned on the sub, and wallah! No more hum

So played the same scene I'd been playing before with my v2 and this new v3, and I can match the output db wise for both subs, but my v2 definitely has more head room. The v2 I always leave at 11:30 or so for gain, and to reach that output level db wise, I need to have the v3 at around the 4 o'clock position! So the v2 is only like halfway around the gain knob, and the v3 is just a hair over 3/4 up.

Doesn't seem good but at least the hum is gone, the amp runs cool, and I can run the v3 at the same level as my v2. So all seems well I guess.

When my other v3 comes in in a few days I'll be able to better compare all 3 of my subs.

It'll be interesting to see what this new v3 that's coming in is like. If I end up not having to have the gain so high, then maybe I do need to get a replacement amp for this current v3 that I have.

Does anyone else who has a v3 have to crank their gain so high?

1 Mitsubishi WD-82642 82" TV
1 Onkyo TX-NR929 11.4 setup
2 Emotiva XPA-5's
1 Emotiva XPA-100
1 Definitive Technology CLR 3000 (Center)
2 Definitive Technology BP2004TL's (Mains)
2 Definitive Technology ProMonitor 1000's (Heights)
6 Definitive Technology BPX's (Rears Wides Sides)
4 CHT VS-18.1 Subs
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Old 07-13-2010, 07:33 PM
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So played the same scene I'd been playing before with my v2 and this new v3, and I can match the output db wise for both subs, but my v2 definitely has more head room. The v2 I always leave at 11:30 or so for gain, and to reach that output level db wise, I need to have the v3 at around the 4 o'clock position! So the v2 is only like halfway around the gain knob, and the v3 is just a hair over 3/4 up.


Yadfgp two things, did you level match both subs prior to testing real world material and if so is there a gain in signal strength by running a splitter using the lt and rt line level in's instead of LFE in on the v3 amp?
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Old 07-13-2010, 08:05 PM
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Yadfgp two things, did you level match both subs prior to testing real world material and if so is there a gain in signal strength by running a splitter using the lt and rt line level in's instead of LFE in on the v3 amp?

I hadn't tried level matching both subs before testing with real world material, I'll try that tonight. Today after fixing the transformer, I did try not only the LFE port, but also both line ins, if I use either line in, the output is noticeably weaker than the LFE, using a splitter for both line ins, the output is noticeably higher. It's tough to say off the top of my head, which was better, the LFE, OR using an adapter on the both line ins instead. I just settled on using the LFE but I'll try again I guess, after I level match the subs by themselves.

Was hoping in the meanwhile to get more responses from anyone else who has a v3 and even better, a v3, and a v2!

Thanks Mike

America's got talent just started so I may have to hold of on this for a little bit.

1 Mitsubishi WD-82642 82" TV
1 Onkyo TX-NR929 11.4 setup
2 Emotiva XPA-5's
1 Emotiva XPA-100
1 Definitive Technology CLR 3000 (Center)
2 Definitive Technology BP2004TL's (Mains)
2 Definitive Technology ProMonitor 1000's (Heights)
6 Definitive Technology BPX's (Rears Wides Sides)
4 CHT VS-18.1 Subs
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Old 07-13-2010, 08:41 PM
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I received my label, will ship out amp tomorrow or Thursday.

I contend that for a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle. -- Winston Churchill
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Old 07-13-2010, 08:57 PM
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Well, I went ahead and tried level matching, with just the subs running and none of the other speakers, and DAMN!

Before when I had checked the levels, I had basically played the plow scene from The Crazies, cuz it's got a TON of bass and it just hits you hard and gets right to it and seems like a good scene to see how good your sub is.
So previously I had all my speakers running as I normally do, and would run 1 sub by itself and check the levels with my rat shack SL meter, and then make a note of what a good average DB was, then I would turn that subs volume all the way down, and then go do the other sub and just adjust levels on both subs till I got around the same DB reading on both subs. I had the meter positioned from the primary seating area which just happens to be the same distance to each sub, I actually measured.

I know not the most scientific and accurate way to do this, but in real life it should more or less kind of suffice.

Anyways, I had to really crank the v3 as I said before, to get the output in DB as the same as my v2.

I took my rat shack meter and put it within a foot of the v2. Left the gain at its normal, 11:30 position. I turned off my amps to all my speakers so just the v2 was outputting sound. Replayed the plow scene from The Crazies. The DB was reading around 115 DB!!! I was like WOW!

It's really kind of fun just to have your sub going so that you can actually see, and feel what that sucker's doing.

So I turned down the v2, and then go over to the v3, and put the meter about a foot away from that, and then turn the volume up on that, to around the 11:30 position, the same as the v2, I replay the plow scene, and HOLY BLEEP! I was hitting a tad bit lower than the v2, an average of around 112 or so. I then turn the gain up a tiny bit more and am able to achieve the same 115 or so that I was getting from the v2!

I now feel like a complete and total idiot because in reality the v3 does seem to perform just about the same as my v2.

I now realize the importance of level matching each sub without any other speakers going.

So I am also relieved that all is well. The v3 amp gets a thumbs up from me.

So I guess from here, my next step is to just level match them both up to be at the same DB level from a foot away. Even though when watching movies the volume may actually not seem as high on the v3, as it is on the v2. And then just leave it that way. Right?

Just seems weird to me that in a real world situation, watching movies, my v3 was so much quieter than the v2.

Can't wait till my other v3 gets here in a few days.


EDIT : Quick question, now that I think about it, when I was running each sub by itself, with the rat shack meter only a foot away from each sub, I was getting an average of 115 DB's at it's normal gain setting. And that's with the AVR receiver at it's normal gain setting that I would have it at if I were actually just watching this movie. I play my movies pretty loud. In my experience, when playing movies, I usually get peaks of around 105 DB's. Am I at a safe setting if I were to keep it this way? I can push the subs a lot harder, and my v2 at least has never bottomed out.

1 Mitsubishi WD-82642 82" TV
1 Onkyo TX-NR929 11.4 setup
2 Emotiva XPA-5's
1 Emotiva XPA-100
1 Definitive Technology CLR 3000 (Center)
2 Definitive Technology BP2004TL's (Mains)
2 Definitive Technology ProMonitor 1000's (Heights)
6 Definitive Technology BPX's (Rears Wides Sides)
4 CHT VS-18.1 Subs
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Old 07-14-2010, 06:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yadfgp View Post

Well, I went ahead and tried level matching, with just the subs running and none of the other speakers, and DAMN!

Before when I had checked the levels, I had basically played the plow scene from The Crazies, cuz it's got a TON of bass and it just hits you hard and gets right to it and seems like a good scene to see how good your sub is.
So previously I had all my speakers running as I normally do, and would run 1 sub by itself and check the levels with my rat shack SL meter, and then make a note of what a good average DB was, then I would turn that subs volume all the way down, and then go do the other sub and just adjust levels on both subs till I got around the same DB reading on both subs. I had the meter positioned from the primary seating area which just happens to be the same distance to each sub, I actually measured.

I know not the most scientific and accurate way to do this, but in real life it should more or less kind of suffice.

Anyways, I had to really crank the v3 as I said before, to get the output in DB as the same as my v2.

I took my rat shack meter and put it within a foot of the v2. Left the gain at its normal, 11:30 position. I turned off my amps to all my speakers so just the v2 was outputting sound. Replayed the plow scene from The Crazies. The DB was reading around 115 DB!!! I was like WOW!

It's really kind of fun just to have your sub going so that you can actually see, and feel what that sucker's doing.

So I turned down the v2, and then go over to the v3, and put the meter about a foot away from that, and then turn the volume up on that, to around the 11:30 position, the same as the v2, I replay the plow scene, and HOLY BLEEP! I was hitting a tad bit lower than the v2, an average of around 112 or so. I then turn the gain up a tiny bit more and am able to achieve the same 115 or so that I was getting from the v2!

I now feel like a complete and total idiot because in reality the v3 does seem to perform just about the same as my v2.

I now realize the importance of level matching each sub without any other speakers going.

So I am also relieved that all is well. The v3 amp gets a thumbs up from me.

So I guess from here, my next step is to just level match them both up to be at the same DB level from a foot away. Even though when watching movies the volume may actually not seem as high on the v3, as it is on the v2. And then just leave it that way. Right?

Just seems weird to me that in a real world situation, watching movies, my v3 was so much quieter than the v2.

Can't wait till my other v3 gets here in a few days.


EDIT : Quick question, now that I think about it, when I was running each sub by itself, with the rat shack meter only a foot away from each sub, I was getting an average of 115 DB's at it's normal gain setting. And that's with the AVR receiver at it's normal gain setting that I would have it at if I were actually just watching this movie. I play my movies pretty loud. In my experience, when playing movies, I usually get peaks of around 105 DB's. Am I at a safe setting if I were to keep it this way? I can push the subs a lot harder, and my v2 at least has never bottomed out.

If "real world" numbers are off from "individual" numbers you might look into phase. From what I can tell the V3s are 180 degrees out of phase with the V2s. In other words I run a pair in the living room(until home theater is finished) and my V2 is set to 0 degrees and the V3 is set to 180 degrees which netted a net 6db gain when I had it set properly during "real world listening."

Try this:
  • Level match both subs(individually) with test tones(phase set at 0)
  • Select optimum phase for first sub by playing with phase until it yields max spl.
  • Play test tones now with both subs playing with phase on second sub until it yields max spl.
Sidenote: You might want to keep the gain on your sub amplifiers under 11:00 and turn up the gain on your controller(even if it means they will be lower than 10-11:00). Wise men say it keeps the sub amp from running out of headroom........
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Old 07-14-2010, 07:51 AM
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Yadfgp glad you like your new sub and are getting things figured out. Every amp will have a different sensitivity on the gain knob and is in no way a indication on how much is "left in the tank". If after level matching and phase alignment if the new sub hits the same numbers at your seated position and is located at the at the same playback location as the old one your good to go. I take it you will have three MFW's now that will make for a awesome sounding system enjoy!
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Old 07-14-2010, 09:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yadfgp View Post

Before when I had checked the levels, I had basically played the plow scene from The Crazies, cuz it's got a TON of bass and it just hits you hard and gets right to it and seems like a good scene to see how good your sub is.

Does your AVR or Pre have a test tone for the sub? I use the pink noise tones that are generated during the speaker level adjustment screen.

Also, I would recommend taking readings with the SPL meter from your main listening position. Depending on your room, one sub may need to be set at a higher level than the other to achieve matching SPLs from each sub. Placing the meter in front of the sub doesnt really illustrate how the sub is interacting in your room and what you will hear from your seat.

For example, my room is open to the downstairs on one side of the room and from my listening position my two MFWs behave very differently at certain frequencies.See link for graph of how each of my subs behave in my room.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...3#post18419333
If I were to take readings from a foot in front of each sub, they would most likely not show those same differences.

Hope this helps!

PS. Three MFWs will be awesome! How will you have them positioned in your room?
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Old 07-14-2010, 01:24 PM
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Maybe I am reading this wrong so help me out.....
if you level match two subs, individually, for 80db, then don't you end up with 80db plus 80db when they are both playing at the same time ?

So, instead, you would set the phase first, as the DB level will fluctuate while setting the phase.

Then, level match the subs playing at the same time from your listening position.

No ?
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Old 07-14-2010, 01:27 PM
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Btw, here is a great way to set the correct phase between the main speakers and your sub (Although, I have still not found a definitive way to set phase 'between multiple subs' only, though):

See Page 24

http://media.avguide.com/surround_sound_speakers_bg.pdf

"But there’s a much more precise way of setting the phase control that guarantees perfect phase alignment between the subwoofer and main speakers.

First, reverse the connections on your main loudspeakers so that the black speaker wire goes to the speaker’s red terminal, and the red speaker wire goes to the speaker’s black terminal.

Do this with both speakers.

Now, from a test CD that includes pure test tones, select the track whose frequency is the same as the subwoofer’s crossover frequency.

Sit in the listening position and have a friend rotate the subwoofer’s phase control until you hear the least amount of bass.

The subwoofer’s phase control is now set perfectly.

Return your speaker connections to their previous (correct) positions: red to red, black to black. "
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Old 07-14-2010, 04:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jehanzeb View Post

Maybe I am reading this wrong so help me out.....
if you level match two subs, individually, for 80db, then don't you end up with 80db plus 80db when they are both playing at the same time ?

So, instead, you would set the phase first, as the DB level will fluctuate while setting the phase.

Then, level match the subs playing at the same time from your listening position.

No ?

I would set the phase first then sub volume one at a time with the other off. With both subs on if they are co-located you should see about a 6db gain or about 3db or so if the subs are spread out. You can then use your sub out trim level on your AVR to level match the subs to your speakers which will adjust both subs together and not mess with your previous level matching. Just one way of doing it. When I ran dual stacked subs used to set them up at 6db summed over center channel volume uncorrected with my rat meter.
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Old 07-15-2010, 11:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D.T.MIKE View Post

I would set the phase first then sub volume one at a time with the other off. With both subs on if they are co-located you should see about a 6db gain or about 3db or so if the subs are spread out. You can then use your sub out trim level on your AVR to level match the subs to your speakers which will adjust both subs together and not mess with your previous level matching. Just one way of doing it. When I ran dual stacked subs used to set them up at 6db summed over center channel volume uncorrected with my rat meter.

Yeah, mine are dual stacked as well so slightly less work to set the phase on them.

Although to add to the confusion, someone mentioned the Sub Distance should also be adjusted to get the correct phase, within the AVR.

I played with the Distance setting but it made no difference in the SPL output.

Anyway, so far I am happy with the way they are setup.
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