NEW MFW-15 amps (May 2010) *pics* - Page 2 - AVS Forum

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Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers

crOwcaine's Avatar crOwcaine
08:21 PM Liked: 10
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I had it set to almost the max on it to level the subs to 80db. The other two with the v2 amp were at about 4/10. It just didn't sound the same though. So I took out the new module on one of my busted v2 amps and installed into a v1 amp and it plays perfect with the others because it is now essentailly a v2 amp since it's the only component that changed. The v3 amp is back in it's foam coffin.
KlipschHead281's Avatar KlipschHead281
08:23 PM Liked: 12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crOwcaine View Post

I had it set to almost the max on it to level the subs to 80db. The other two with the v2 amp were at about 4/10. It just didn't sound the same though. So I took out the new module on one of my busted v2 amps and installed into a v1 amp and it plays perfect with the others because it is now essentailly a v2 amp since it's the only component that changed. The v3 amp is back in it's foam coffin.

That's good news! So the module boards are the same then, my anger has subsided a tad, depending on if it's this board that went bad on my last amp that is.

Thanks crOwcaine!
ntrain6943's Avatar ntrain6943
08:25 PM Liked: 10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NicksHitachi View Post

Whats cheap? Can you be more specific for those of us learning?
  • Transformer
  • Capacitors
  • Colors of inputs(Who cares).
Its obviously less "mass" but electronic equipment is more than a sum of its parts....

The noname chinese caps, very,very thin PCB boards, for starters.......the lack of finned heatsink(the plate itself acts as the HS)doesnt exactly bring confidence either, and if someone can give me a better closeup of the switching transistor Im sure that is going to show more of the same.
crOwcaine's Avatar crOwcaine
08:29 PM Liked: 10
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no, no, the new amp that I started this thread about can NOT be used with the older amps. There is no hook up for the control panel. I had to Frankestien two older amps together to get a functioning amp. The new one (May 2010) has no parts that can be used with the older amps. They are a new design that is in NO WAY an upgrade.
ntrain6943's Avatar ntrain6943
08:29 PM Liked: 10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KlipschHead281 View Post

My 4 year old nephew can tell it's a cheap amplifier, this is a replacement product so you obviously don't know how it stacks up to the original however I'm nearly 100% certain you would say the same thing about that. So, no help what so ever.

EDIT: ntrain6943, I'm not going to delete what I said because I said it. But I'll apologize for getting upset, I have nearly 2 years invested in this investment and seeing this amplifier as the replacement tripped my trigger. I apologize for taking it out on you.

Well, the "original" failed, and there are ALOT of people who have had their original "quality" MFW amp fail on them within a very short time, many DOA's as well reported on alot of forum boards. Again, don't blame me for stating whats shown. Again if someone wants to take a closeup pick of the switching transistor and the input board Id be glad to point out in more detail what I see...........
KlipschHead281's Avatar KlipschHead281
08:37 PM Liked: 12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ntrain6943 View Post

Well, the "original" failed, and there are ALOT of people who have had their original "quality" MFW amp fail on them within a very short time, many DOA's as well reported on alot of forum boards. Again, don't blame me for stating whats shown. Again if someone wants to take a closeup pick of the switching transistor and the input board Id be glad to point out in more detail what I see...........

I'll post close ups of both when I get the new one, in fact I'll post v1, v2 and v3 if I get v3. If I don't get v3 maybe crOwcaine can post some close up shots of his.
KlipschHead281's Avatar KlipschHead281
08:38 PM Liked: 12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crOwcaine View Post

no, no, the new amp that I started this thread about can NOT be used with the older amps. There is no hook up for the control panel. I had to Frankestien two older amps together to get a functioning amp. The new one (May 2010) has no parts that can be used with the older amps. They are a new design that is in NO WAY an upgrade.

Sorry crOwcaine! My bad, I guess I was really hoping. Thanks for clearing it up.
crOwcaine's Avatar crOwcaine
08:39 PM Liked: 10
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gimme 5 minutes.
crOwcaine's Avatar crOwcaine
08:49 PM Liked: 10
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http://img121.imageshack.us/gal.php?g=img1461pm.jpg
KlipschHead281's Avatar KlipschHead281
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Thanks!












ufokillerz's Avatar ufokillerz
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doesn't look too bad!
yadfgp's Avatar yadfgp
10:34 PM Liked: 42
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Says July 2009 for the manufacture date? So some of the same parts from the 7/09 batch of amps with some newer stuff?
ravingndrooling's Avatar ravingndrooling
06:45 AM Liked: 11
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I am truly sorry you boys are having such problems. I had a pair of first gen MFWs that behaved flawlessly. I sold them due to their under 30Hz performance. Thats another story though. If AV123 had sent me a replacement anything that didn't match or better the original performance I would be very unhappy. The best advice I can give you is call and bitch until a proper compromise is met. Personally, I would sell the MFWs take the loss and find something that you would be happy with. Good Luck
cneely8's Avatar cneely8
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With all the home repair that people need to do on these subs, I was curious who would be legally liable if an improperly installed new amp caused a fire or someone injured themselves installing.

Anyone have a clue?
KlipschHead281's Avatar KlipschHead281
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cneely8 View Post

With all the home repair that people need to do on these subs, I was curious who would be legally liable if an improperly installed new amp caused a fire or someone injured themselves installing.

Anyone have a clue?

I know in the new USA it's hard to tell who is responsible for things so maybe I'm old school. If I hurt myself or burn something down because of something I did, I'm responsible. However, since this is the new and improved USA we get to blame everybody else for what we do so I would blame McDonalds and work my way up from there.

How do you improperly install the amp? The wires are keyed, the worst you could do is plug the driver in out of phase.
floridapoolboy's Avatar floridapoolboy
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These MFWs are easily the worst horror story I have ever read concerning a supposedly quality product from a supposedly reputable company. If a product under warranty has a defect it should be returned to the manufacturer for repair. If the customer attempts the repair himself the company should have him sign a disclaimer to remove liability if the customer screws up. If a large number of sold products have the same issue a recall should occur, where the customers are given either a refund or a repaired product at the companies expense. This entire thing has become a fiasco, but given the present state of the company I guess it is to be expected. Funny, they no longer even sell Rocket speakers, their bread and butter line, but they are still pushing MFWs. Good luck to anyone foolish enough to go for it!
cneely8's Avatar cneely8
08:41 AM Liked: 10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KlipschHead281 View Post

How do you improperly install the amp? The wires are keyed, the worst you could do is plug the driver in out of phase.

I don't know, maybe some idiot forgets to unplug it first and fries himself, or someone cuts a wire accidentally while inside the thing- whatever.

I was just wondering about liability in case of injury, since the company makes the consumer do home repairs on faulty equipment instead of a full return and replace like most companies, or at least a return, company fixes, company mails back.

Can you imagine auto manufacturers sending seatbelt replacement kits or something to homes with instructions on how to install instead of having them go to a service center for free corrections?

In other companies defective equipment is returned and fixed or replaced, but these jokers in colorado make the consumer do it themselves. Now it looks like they even send them replacement equipment that has better stability but eliminates some of the features that the consumer already paid for, and less power?

How are people still falling for these scams?
KlipschHead281's Avatar KlipschHead281
03:07 PM Liked: 12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cneely8 View Post

I don't know, maybe some idiot forgets to unplug it first and fries himself, or someone cuts a wire accidentally while inside the thing- whatever.

Well, if he does, he's a moron who should never touch things, this type of person should be kept away from anything sharp. But if he does hurt himself, he needs to look in the mirror for the person to blame, because if he blames anybody else, he's even more stupid and should just go out to Best Buy and buy Bose. They don't allow anybody to touch their components, perfect for somebody who shouldn't swap parts.

Quote:


I was just wondering about liability in case of injury, since the company makes the consumer do home repairs on faulty equipment instead of a full return and replace like most companies, or at least a return, company fixes, company mails back.

Well, the reason for swapping anything out is usually because something became faulty, right? I was givin the option to send the subwoofer back for repairs and believe it or not there are a lot of companies that allow self repair. Dell being probably one of the biggest companies on the planet, they allow it. Since I don't want to be without a working sub, I took the self service option, because I'm mechanically inclined and because it's so easy to do.

Quote:


Can you imagine auto manufacturers sending seatbelt replacement kits or something to homes with instructions on how to install instead of having them go to a service center for free corrections?

Well, a car company is a different thing, they clearly dictate that you are not allowed to service the vehicle and if you do you will void the warranty so bad example. Ford however does allow it's customers to update Sync via USB key, before this year I believe you had to go into the service center to do it, now you can log onto the Ford MySync website and do it yourself, the horror.

Is Ford now responsible if I improperly uploaded the update?

Quote:


In other companies defective equipment is returned and fixed or replaced, but these jokers in colorado make the consumer do it themselves. Now it looks like they even send them replacement equipment that has better stability but eliminates some of the features that the consumer already paid for, and less power?

For many companies the option to return an item for repair or refund is there and for many companies they allow for self repair. I can name a few, HP, Dell, well most computer companies, many subwoofer companies for example AV123, Klipsch and many others, the list goes on, many companies allow it and they also cearly stipulate that if you feel unqualified then don't do it yourself. The "jokers in Colorado" aren't forcing anybody to do anything, the swap is up to you. I don't remember Kyle flying out to my house and putting a gun to my head and stating I need to replace the amp myself or else.

Quote:


How are people still falling for these scams?

I fail to see the scam here, they are doing what many companies do to save time and money. I find fault with less features and power but that is something to discuss in another post as it has nothing to do with liability for swapping the amplifier. I'm not here to defend AV123, I am defending this practice because there is value to it and it helps many companies keep service costs down and many consumers are happy to do it themselves if both sides agree.

Is it really that difficult to understand who is responsible for hurting themselves? If you hurt yourself while swapping out the sub amp, would you call AV123 to complain and say it's their fault? Not saying this to be rude or mean, just wondering.

.
Chu Gai's Avatar Chu Gai
03:37 PM Liked: 600
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One thing they should have done, was to make an announcement regarding the new amps on their website along with proper information regarding their capabilities while comparing and contrasting differences. Surely they can't be that busy.
KlipschHead281's Avatar KlipschHead281
03:47 PM Liked: 12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chu Gai View Post

One thing they should have done, was to make an announcement regarding the new amps on their website along with proper information regarding their capabilities while comparing and contrasting differences. Surely they can't be that busy.

Agreed 100%, when they changed supposedly from one Chinese facility to another they posted pictures of the new place and we heard all about it. Now, they are using a new US made amplifier which you'd think they would brag about but looking at the amplifier and the way it's installed along with the old controller in the top slot makes me wonder if they even care what we think any longer. In another thread the person who bought a new MFW got the controller in the top and couldn't understand why there wasn't a change in the sound when he turned the knobs so they aren't even telling new buyers to ignore the top controller.

We also have no idea about performance but I'm tempted to see if Mark Seaton is interested in testing mine when the new amp comes in, I'd be more than happy to make it available to him. He's probably and for good reason going to want to stay clear.

They want to get rid of the stock they have. I'm going to predict once stock of MFW's is gone this will no longer be a product.
Chu Gai's Avatar Chu Gai
05:35 PM Liked: 600
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That's possible, KH in which case you'd think that progress would be made on the new subs that MLS was talking about before all his posts vanished.
NicksHitachi's Avatar NicksHitachi
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"Ok, let me see if I can cover all of the points here. The new amplifier is indeed different from our original and modified MFW-15 amps. This new amp is completely produced here in the USA. The manufacturer is actually located about two blocks from the main office. The power rating on this amp is actually slightly higher than the old version. The old transformer had a rating of 350VA and the new one has a rating of 500VA. I am not sure what is going on with the poster's unit over on AVS I really wish he would either call or email us. As for the missing high level inputs we removed those as they were rarely being used so we decided to can the inputs. With the control panel we decided to move it onboard to alleviate potential issues with the control panel wires coming off during shipping. This has happened numerous times in the past.
To answer the questions about the input colors we were actually thinking about integrating a VCR to the units but held off as we are starting our search for some beta units as VHS won't out last Beta In all seriousness this was the triple RCA part that was the most readily available to our vendor." (AV123 Sales).

I actually like the minimalist design of the new amp. Compare the transformer to one of emotiva's amp sections and they look pretty darn similar. A heat sink would have been nice, but so would a cupholder, and cruise control.

How about quiet? None of the old version amps seem to be dead quiet, and gain might have been one of the tradeoffs to getting the noise floor where its needed.

Those with new amps:
  1. are you able to get the same output by turning the gain up on the controller?
  2. How are you measuring output, spl meter?
  3. Hows the noise floor?
  4. When turned up that high on the gain knob on the amp, are you getting any clipping during demanding moments?

KlipschHead281's Avatar KlipschHead281
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NicksHitachi View Post

"Ok, let me see if I can cover all of the points here. The new amplifier is indeed different from our original and modified MFW-15 amps. This new amp is completely produced here in the USA. The manufacturer is actually located about two blocks from the main office. The power rating on this amp is actually slightly higher than the old version. The old transformer had a rating of 350VA and the new one has a rating of 500VA. I am not sure what is going on with the poster's unit over on AVS I really wish he would either call or email us. As for the missing high level inputs we removed those as they were rarely being used so we decided to can the inputs. With the control panel we decided to move it onboard to alleviate potential issues with the control panel wires coming off during shipping. This has happened numerous times in the past.
To answer the questions about the input colors we were actually thinking about integrating a VCR to the units but held off as we are starting our search for some beta units as VHS won't out last Beta. In all seriousness this was the triple RCA part that was the most readily available to our vendor." (AV123 Sales).

I actually like the minimalist design of the new amp. Compare the transformer to one of emotiva's amp sections and they look pretty darn similar. A heat sink would have been nice, but so would a cupholder, and cruise control.

Personally I don't care how it looks, what has me wondering is they are shipping brand new A stock MFW's with this new amp, which is fine if it has the performance of the old amp. However people are getting a control module up top that does nothing and per jehanzeb he was confused why when he changed the settings on the control module nothing happened. Which makes sense if AV123 doesn't tell him when they sold it to him that the top module does nothing.

They should have had block off plates made so the sub actually looks like a subwoofer made by a professional company. Instead it makes AV123 look like they 1. either don't care what people think anymore, 2. are too cheap to make the plates because they are ridding themselves of what's left or 3. no idea, I could not build something like this and then ship it the way they did so my guess is it's a combo of all three, they have not said or done anything to prove otherwise.

Quote:


How about quiet? None of the old version amps seem to be dead quiet, and gain might have been one of the tradeoffs to getting the noise floor where its needed.

Those with new amps:
  1. are you able to get the same output by turning the gain up on the controller?
  2. How are you measuring output, spl meter?
  3. Hows the noise floor?
  4. When turned up that high on the gain knob on the amp, are you getting any clipping during demanding moments?

Right now I think I'm one of two people getting this new amp that has another one to directly compare to. Mine should arrive tomorrow and I will take SPL measurments and try to answer your questions.
NicksHitachi's Avatar NicksHitachi
01:42 PM Liked: 167
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I believe that new transformer is toroidal(correct me if I'm wrong). I think the old ones are laminated. If this is true, that would be an improvement in many of the areas the old amp was deficient.
  • Toroidal Transformers(TTs) are 10-15% more efficient. Hence no auto-off.
  • TTs produce less stray fields. This is also a claimed culprit of the hummm most of us have experienced.
  • They much quieter when operating.
  • They run cooler, which is good because my old amps run REALLY HOt. This might also contribute to the failure rates of the amps.
  • TTs are supposed to perform better under load
TTs are generally more expensive, so, if it is a TT then I like that part.
KlipschHead281's Avatar KlipschHead281
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NicksHitachi View Post

I believe that new transformer is toroidal(correct me if I'm wrong). I think the old ones are laminated. If this is true, that would be an improvement in many of the areas the old amp was deficient.
  • Toroidal Transformers(TTs) are 10-15% more efficient. Hence no auto-off.
  • TTs produce less stray fields. This is also a claimed culprit of the hummm most of us have experienced.
  • They much quieter when operating.
  • They run cooler, which is good because my old amps run REALLY HOt. This might also contribute to the failure rates of the amps.
  • TTs are supposed to perform better under load
TTs are generally more expensive, so, if it is a TT then I like that part.

Thanks! I like it, however no auto shut off, 10 to 15% more efficient doesn't mean they shouldn't be powered off when not being used. Thankfully the broken auto shut off from the old ones taught me to power them off myself anyway. My new amp says out for delivery on the UPS website so I'll have some feedback on it very soon.
wje's Avatar wje
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Are these even approved amplifiers. Where's the UL and CE markings? I guess they never meant much before since they are just silk-screened markings ... but still.
AzN_plyR's Avatar AzN_plyR
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Can't wait for your update comparison on the new amp KH.
Chu Gai's Avatar Chu Gai
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wje View Post

Are these even approved amplifiers. Where's the UL and CE markings? I guess they never meant much before since they are just silk-screened markings ... but still.

The UL listing would basically have to do with things like human safety while the CE mostly has to do with stuff outside of the US. It (FCC that is) may or may not be required but with the amp being made domestically from a reputable place (QSC in Colorado), I doubt they would place either marking on the amp because they would not want to be liable if the stuff wasn't tested and someone were to inform the appropriate agencies.
Im2sexy's Avatar Im2sexy
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I always thought that the UL was a voluntary program where you submitted products to a nongovernmental company (UL) and had them tested for safety. Is it a law in the US that any electronics needs to be UL approved?
crOwcaine's Avatar crOwcaine
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For the record, when my v3 amp was installed, it hummed the same as the old ones. Maybe even more. MFW's hum, all of them. I'm not going to kid myself and neither should anyone else.
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