NEW MFW-15 amps (May 2010) *pics* - Page 3 - AVS Forum
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post #61 of 2657 Old 05-21-2010, 04:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Im2sexy View Post

I always thought that the UL was a voluntary program where you submitted products to a nongovernmental company (UL) and had them tested for safety. Is it a law in the US that any electronics needs to be UL approved?

I'm not sure if it's for all electronics but it's something that can be looked into. Maybe next week. Personally, I'm of the opinion that it's a very prudent thing to have for devices that plug into the wall.

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post #62 of 2657 Old 05-21-2010, 04:37 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Chu Gai View Post

I'm not sure if it's for all electronics but it's something that can be looked into. Maybe next week. Personally, I'm of the opinion that it's a very prudent thing to have for devices that plug into the wall.

I went to UL's site and searched "subwoofer amplifier" and there are not many company's that are UL listed. I also think its a prudent thing to do but I think its done more for PR than out of concern for the publics safety
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post #63 of 2657 Old 05-21-2010, 04:56 PM
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I'm not sure what terms you'd search under. However, you can look at other suppliers of subs and/or separate amps and see if they're UL listed. I think you'll find that in general they do have a UL sticker somewhere which if legit, provides the consumer with some measure of safety if something were to go awry. Like anything else, proper testing costs money and I would say somewhere in the vicinity of $5K is a reasonable point. Now for that amount of money, MLS can buy and sell a lot of amps.

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post #64 of 2657 Old 05-21-2010, 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by crOwcaine View Post

For the record, when my v3 amp was installed, it hummed the same as the old ones. Maybe even more. MFW's hum, all of them. I'm not going to kid myself and neither should anyone else.

Call me lucky, none of mine have any hum. I just received the new amp, first impression is the center bolt needs a lock washer. The transformer spins freely so I had to tighten it up fresh out of the box.

The perception of the amp being cheap, well, they didn't silk screen anything but the PCB's behind the black plate. I don't think anybody cares about the PCB's being labled except for the owner of AV123. In my view, no matter how good the amplifier may be, it LOOKS cheap and first impressions are hard to get over. If I were AV123 I would at minimum put the company logo on it as in previous versions of the amp. Anything would be better than the stark look of this new amp. How about AV123 "Proudly made in the USA", if you could print proudly made in China, how hard can it be to say the same thing about having it made in your own country.

Next up, the on/off switch is a 3 position switch however the middle position turns it on just like going to position 3.

Setting up the gain is different than setting it up on the MFW with v1 and v2 amplifiers. If I get a new v2 amp I know if I set the gain the same as my other MFW it will dial in exactly and they typically do, I have had 6 amplifiers worth of setting them up to get to know this.

Amp v3 is a different animal and I can't set it up in the HT with the other MFW because the wife is in one of those rare moods (not so rare since menapause has set in), any married guy who's wife is going through this knows, if she is in a mood (young guys, the moods your wife goes through now, pale, trust me!) you head to the man cave or any where she isn't. Generally I just watch TV with her and wait till she becomes human again...

Ok, TMI meters running high so time to digress, so back to the amp. I have it in the man cave running my Franken MFW and it does take more gain, about a 1/4 or more of a turn of the knob to get the same output as amp v2, does this mean it has less power? No, I don't believe so but I can't crank it up to see how it compares either.

Initially, sound quality is good, it seems to push the driver even at low volumes as well as the previous amp. When the wife heads to Best Buy I'll do some louder testing but for now it does work.

Amplifier quality compared to v2, looking at the components this amplifier looks like it's using better components. The PCB's look to be the same thickness but the soldering is cleaner and parts are closer to the board. I would say this board is as much better as v2 was to v1. V1 was a mess, the components looked like a 10 year old was givin a short lesson on installation and then set loose to build an amp. At least the v1's I had were that way.

One complaint, the port for the power plug, I have to jam it in to get a connection. At first I thought I got a dud amp but a second shove got it in far enough.

More later, waiting for the wife to head to the store...

I contend that for a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle. -- Winston Churchill
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post #65 of 2657 Old 05-21-2010, 06:21 PM
 
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KH you are a whimp!!!!!!
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post #66 of 2657 Old 05-21-2010, 08:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Im2sexy View Post

KH you are a whimp!!!!!!

Dude, you come over and if after 10 minutes you get further than me I'll buy you a 12 pack. After she has removed your balls and served them to you, you owe me a 12 pack. Deal?

I'm just a realist, a woman going through menopause is a dangerous creature, if you don't know this you haven't met one.


EDIT: I'm mostly joking about this of course.

I contend that for a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle. -- Winston Churchill
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post #67 of 2657 Old 05-21-2010, 09:23 PM
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Ok, I've been putting this off because my wife came home with my new Samsung C8000 55" TV. See, sometimes you win when poeople think you're a wimp.

I have been putting the new amp through it's paces, I've tried it every which way and my findings are this. This new v3 amplifier may be a fine amp, I cannot say it isn't electronically but I can say without a doubt that it has nowhere near the output capability of the previous v2 amplifier (speaking for the one I received of course).

I know Kyle would want me to wait until Monday to discuss this with them and I will but my findings need to be known for those that are going to be getting this new amplifier.

I won't go through the 2 hours worth of swapping and testing I'll just say this. Even with the gain set to 100% and the AVR running the amp 10db hot (over the stock v2 amp) the old amp with the gain at 11am position slaughters the new amp by 10db.

Using my rat shack meter with the AVR volume at -2, the stock v2 MFW gain at 11am and playing "Who wants to play" by Bassic which hits very hard the v2 MFW hit 110db and setting the v3 amp this exact way netted a paltry 90db, down by nearly 20db's.

So, I turned up the gain knob on the v3 amp to 100% and got 94db and then ran the AVR to +4 db, which is 10db hotter than I run the v2 MFW at and got it to hit 99db. Driver excursion for the v3 amp wasn't near what the v2 is capable of. The sheer output difference is night and day so I think I can guarantee that AV123 will not have to worry about bottoming out calls with subs sold with this amplifer in it.

One positive note, the new amp runs cold, no matter how hard you drive it. This was not the most scientific test by any means but it should have been easy to dial in the new amp if it had the same output as the old amp. The biggest deal would have been figuring out where to set the gain on the sub amp. I could find no way of getting the intense output I easily get with my old MFW amps.

Trying to set this new amp to work WITH a v2 powered MFW was impossible. You simply can't even tell the new one is in the system, I played WOTW pod emerging scene and sure the bass was good but that was because I had one solid MFW already in the system, it did not have the impact I'm used to. So, I cranked up BassMekanik and lets just say my meter didn't have to be set above 120 as before.

I removed my 1st MFW and used the one powered by the new amp and WOTW made a joke out of it. I honestly can not imagine leaving this amp installed in this MFW and I doubt I'll be sent a V2 since I have been through 6 of them so this could get interesting. Needless to say, even my wife who could care less could tell the difference, and if anything this made her happy as the room doesn't shake as much.

I may have some very upset people at AV123 for not waiting until Monday but there are a few guys that now have these amps and they deserve to know what I found out tonight.

I contend that for a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle. -- Winston Churchill
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post #68 of 2657 Old 05-21-2010, 10:42 PM
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Thank you for the comparison, looks like I will be ordering an SVS then.
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post #69 of 2657 Old 05-22-2010, 04:51 AM
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Thanks KH for the comparison. Sounds like power was cut in the v3 which would naturally solve heat issues and make it last longer. So if the goal was dependability they might have hit something. Most people who purchase new wouldn't have a clue as to past performance and the ones who've had the v1 or v2 well, who knows what they will come up with to justify the performance differences, if anything.

I've also got a pair with v2 amps and no humm, we must have the only 4. Even the auto function works although it's implementation is useless saving a watt. The only issues I've had with mine weren't really issues but good ole AV123 QC and should have been taken care of before they got to me. I purchased in August when the first v2 amps were shipping and they forgot to include the sticker on the amps that denotes the v2 amp. I pulled them for peace of mind to verify and they were indeed v2. Not long after that screw and driver not being sealed all the way around issues came up. So again I go to work and pulled the drivers, screws were fine but guess what, both foam strips were about 3 inches to short to go around for a complete seal. It's like they intentionally meant to do it, both were the same (now that's penny pinching). A quick trip to Home Depot solved that.

Other than the 2 stupid QC items listed above they've been great. I didn't expect them to last this long when I bought them so they've exceeded my expectations by far, if they do go thump in the night I won't be dealing with AV123 for any kind of solution. Your comparison is a prime example of AV123s just get something out there, just so it works for now business practice.

I wouldn't worry about upsetting people at AV123 by not waiting till Monday. You gave your objective findings on a product you own, nothing wrong with that and besides they've upset quite a few people in the past themselves.
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post #70 of 2657 Old 05-22-2010, 07:41 AM
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Thanks for the comparison. Looks like I need to pray to the Amp/Sub gods that my v2 amp lasts. I really wish I had kept the old amp that I sent back that "just" had the transformer hum. I hard power mine off when not in use so hopefully that will extend its life.
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post #71 of 2657 Old 05-22-2010, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AV123 Sales View Post

The power rating on this amp is actually slightly higher than the old version. The old transformer had a rating of 350VA and the new one has a rating of 500VA. I am not sure what is going on with the poster's unit over on AVS I really wish he would either call or email us.

That would mean AV123 Sales is lying to us?

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Originally Posted by KlipschHead281 View Post

I may have some very upset people at AV123

Geez... those poor guys. After all, they are only the ones providing us with their cheap, sub par amps for 5 years and now telling us these obviously less powerful new amps are more powerful as if we are going to just fall for the Jedi Mind Trick. They shoot it straight don't they? Another lesson in morality from the fellows in Longmont.
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post #72 of 2657 Old 05-22-2010, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by KlipschHead281 View Post

I know Kyle would want me to wait until Monday to discuss this with them and I will but my findings need to be known for those that are going to be getting this new amplifier.

If you posted this over there it would have been deleted anyway, so by posting over here at least people can read the continuing decline of what was once hailed (incorrectly?) as a giant-killer at low prices.

This will be very valuable to new people who aren't aware of the company's legal and quality trouble.
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post #73 of 2657 Old 05-22-2010, 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Jed M View Post

That would mean AV123 Sales is lying to us?

No, the amp may actually have more power but it's pre amp section might not be up to par. So I'm unsure where the issue is but no matter where the issue is my v2 amp lays the smack down on the new one in output/impact.

Quote:


Geez... those poor guys. After all, they are only the ones providing us with their cheap, sub par amps for 5 years and now telling us these obviously less powerful new amps are more powerful as if we are going to just fall for the Jedi Mind Trick. They shoot it straight don't they? Another lesson in morality from the fellows in Longmont.

I hope to have some answers on Monday after I call them.

I contend that for a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle. -- Winston Churchill
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post #74 of 2657 Old 05-22-2010, 09:49 PM
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I just ran Avatar through the ringer with the new and old subwoofer using my wife as the person to decide which version sounded better.

Now keep in mind she could care less, she picked v2 over v3 and said it was no contest. Half the tme she couldn't tell if the sub was on when using v3 and I never told her which one was in play.

V3 goes back into the box.

I contend that for a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle. -- Winston Churchill
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post #75 of 2657 Old 05-22-2010, 11:19 PM
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Wow, what a good sport she is... my wife would've never played along with me, she wants to watch a movie just once, in its entirety and sounding right the first time or else she'll leave the room. I'd say you got a keeper there...

"For deep bass, the listener is not really listening to the speaker, but rather, is listening to the room as it is being played by the speaker."
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post #76 of 2657 Old 05-23-2010, 01:14 AM
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Originally Posted by monomer View Post

Wow, what a good sport she is... my wife would've never played along with me, she wants to watch a movie just once, in its entirety and sounding right the first time or else she'll leave the room. I'd say you got a keeper there...

She has her moments. Using Avatar helps, she loves this movie.

I contend that for a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle. -- Winston Churchill
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post #77 of 2657 Old 05-23-2010, 07:28 AM
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I can confirm as well that these new amps have very low output compared to the older ones. I don't know why or what is the reason, but it's disappointing to say the least. The amp is at 75% and I might as well turn the gain all the way up to 100%. The output seems to barely match what the old one did at 50%.
I may have to do what KlipschHead did and replace the new with the older one.

I'm glad I didn't pay for this new amp!
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post #78 of 2657 Old 05-23-2010, 08:26 AM
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This whole thing is just an amazing story.

I also was wondering how Craigsub awarded so many points to a sub back in the day that does hardly anything below 30hz.
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post #79 of 2657 Old 05-23-2010, 11:25 AM - Thread Starter
 
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The only thing He Who Shall Not Be Named did with that list is verify that he was on the ghost payroll. He probably was offered a piece of blue sky and is now being rewarded with the bashing he deserves.
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post #80 of 2657 Old 05-23-2010, 12:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crOwcaine View Post

The only thing He Who Shall Not Be Named did with that list is verify that he was on the ghost payroll. He probably was offered a piece of blue sky and if now being rewarded with the bashing he deserves.

Evidence?
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post #81 of 2657 Old 05-23-2010, 12:15 PM
 
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Originally Posted by KERMIE View Post

This whole thing is just an amazing story.

I also was wondering how Craigsub awarded so many points to a sub back in the day that does hardly anything below 30hz.

The MFW-15's we have here were the original units as designed by Mark Seaton. Here is the response curve taken at the time:



The MFW-15 as it exists today appears to not have much in common with the unit designed by Mark. While I cannot speak for Mark Seaton, I don't think he would apply his name to the current MFW-15. The amp is different, and it's a good guess that the driver is also not the same as specified by Mark Seaton 3 years ago.

For over 14 months, this qualifier has been listed with the MFW-15:

(Note: As of 3-09, based on many reports of amp failures due to what has been called faulty parts being substituted into the MFW-15's amplifier, this rating is under question until the amp issue is resolved.)


From recent reports, it appears the MFW-15 now has added more than just failing amps to its detriment: It also looks as if the response curve is considerably weaker than the original.

What is being delivered today should really be called the MFW-15 Mark II, and any mention of Mark Seaton being the designer should be removed.
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post #82 of 2657 Old 05-23-2010, 12:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KERMIE View Post

This whole thing is just an amazing story.

I also was wondering how Craigsub awarded so many points to a sub back in the day that does hardly anything below 30hz.

My MFW-15 hits 17hz in my room. This is very common. Where did you get your info?

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post #83 of 2657 Old 05-23-2010, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by crOwcaine View Post

The only thing He Who Shall Not Be Named did with that list is verify that he was on the ghost payroll. He probably was offered a piece of blue sky and if now being rewarded with the bashing he deserves.

Where did you get your info? Looks like libel to me.

I think this puts it into perspective.
Quote:


(Note: As of 3-09, based on many reports of amp failures due to what has been called faulty parts being substituted into the MFW-15's amplifier, this rating is under question until the amp issue is resolved.)


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post #84 of 2657 Old 05-23-2010, 12:40 PM
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The MFW-15 duals I used to own performed exactly as advertised by Craigsub. Must of got lucky with mine never had any issues with them. Recently sold them to upgrade to..."better wait till it is released before I mention it" sub. Set one of them up in a dedicated media room with soundproofing. Measured 17hz in room response with REW and the slam was like having duals. Upstairs floating floor sure helps but what a difference vs a concrete untreated living room.
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post #85 of 2657 Old 05-23-2010, 01:00 PM
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It would be nice if there was a suitable replacement amp for the MFW-15, complete with proper EQ and adequate power. Why is this so hard to achieve?

I really enjoy my sub (now that I have it working), but fear that one day it will be non-operational. And that sux.

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post #86 of 2657 Old 05-23-2010, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by tesseract67 View Post

Where did you get your info? Looks like libel to me.

I think this puts it into perspective.

Libel. Thanks for the laugh.
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post #87 of 2657 Old 05-23-2010, 01:14 PM
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Libel. Thanks for the laugh.

What is laughable is the accusation was made with a complete lack of evidence. You have a better word for this?

Libel: anything that is defamatory or that maliciously or damagingly misrepresents.

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post #88 of 2657 Old 05-23-2010, 01:39 PM
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http://forums.audioholics.com/forums...postcount=4476


Is this libel? Your choice of words are rather extreme for an online forum.
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post #89 of 2657 Old 05-23-2010, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by stevo238 View Post

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums...postcount=4476


Is this libel? Your choice of words are rather extreme for an online forum.

Is my Audioholics post libel? It is looking like my opinion on the subject matter, (v1/v2 vs. v3) is supported by fact, the v3 is not up to the performance of the previous amplifiers. Now... can you please define POS for us?

I would say that my choice of words in this forum are appropriate. Can the same be said for (the rather extreme) post I commented on earlier, Post #79?

Extreme positions are not succeeded by moderate ones, but by contrary extreme positions. (Nietzsche)

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post #90 of 2657 Old 05-23-2010, 02:06 PM
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Yea, but you said it's a POS. Care to elaborate? What's the long term reliability of the amp? How is it a POS? Sounds like libel to me from your perspective. And the word libel is a bit over the top don't you think? Are you a lawyer?

With the exception of some comments by KH about it's output and missing options, I haven't heard anybody say (other than you) that it's a POS. I'm no fan of Schifty but care to elaborate. Tess, I wouldn't be throwing that libel term about so carelessly.
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