NEW MFW-15 amps (May 2010) *pics* - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 2662 Old 05-26-2010, 09:27 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by NicksHitachi View Post

KH- when you pull out the V3 amp, look to see if there was a "tested OK" sticker on the back side of the amp plate. I saw mine somewhere close to the transformer I think. Not that it means anything, just curious.

LOL, tested! LOL.
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post #182 of 2662 Old 05-26-2010, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Faceless Rebel View Post

If everybody in this thread who was not happy had purchased an SVS, Hsu, Epik, or what have you, no one would have had any problems to begin with and this thread would not exist.

Hey, I'm not complaining too loudly since my MFW seems to work as advertised. Just slightly concerned about long term, should something go awry. But for the price I paid, it's hard to imagine a better bang for the buck at that time. Gosh knows a shipped PB-13 Plus would be close to 3x the price that I paid for the MFW.

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Originally Posted by KlipschHead281 View Post

I have no doubt the V3 that NicksHitachi got works as designed, unfortunately it looks like the one I got and a few others received doesn't. I am going to prove it as best as I can however I think the basic test conducted so far proves without a doubt my V2 amp is weak compared to the V3.

I think you got that backwards...

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post #183 of 2662 Old 05-26-2010, 10:51 AM
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Ahhhhh nuts... fixing it now, thanks.

I contend that for a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle. -- Winston Churchill
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post #184 of 2662 Old 05-26-2010, 11:26 AM
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Interesting 'Craigsubs' graph is the FR at 100db, where 'Nicks' is pushing 100-110db which would make the graphs slightly different. Is this just from mic placement or some 'inroom' volume? Just curious. Yeah, so far so good my MFWv2 is still pounding away (and how!) but if it were to let go I'd probably look at Seatons upgrade.For what I paid for the sub used, even adding the Seaton upgrade keeps me well below many subs price point (in Canada anyways) and if it does perform as well as Seaton says it will it should be pretty killer as I am happy with the MFWs performance in its current form.
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post #185 of 2662 Old 05-26-2010, 11:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NicksHitachi View Post

Turns out they were out of phase horribly, reset the phase on the new V3 and netted 10db increase with the two phase matched. I know this is not earth shattering news, and its fundamental when integrating two subs, but seeing the cancellation of two out of phase warranted at least a mention.

Excellent point!

I have a feeling the MFW is out of phase with the Velodyne.

MFW phase sounded best at 180 while the Velodyne is set at 0.

How do you set phase properly for two subs?
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post #186 of 2662 Old 05-26-2010, 12:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by f1nels View Post

Interesting 'Craigsubs' graph is the FR at 100db, where 'Nicks' is pushing 100-110db which would make the graphs slightly different. Is this just from mic placement or some 'inroom' volume? Just curious. Yeah, so far so good my MFWv2 is still pounding away (and how!) but if it were to let go I'd probably look at Seatons upgrade.For what I paid for the sub used, even adding the Seaton upgrade keeps me well below many subs price point (in Canada anyways) and if it does perform as well as Seaton says it will it should be pretty killer as I am happy with the MFWs performance in its current form.

craigsub's measurements were done

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Measuring procedures: All measurements are taken at 2 meters/GP from the front baffle of a subwoofer. In the case of a ported sub, the microphone is placed so it is 2 meters from the center of the driver(s) and port. The posted measured results are max "clean" 20 Hz output and the average from 20 to 63 Hz. If it seemed like the amp was the limiting factor in output, "AL" is added to the 20 Hz SPL.

not sure how close nick did his measurements, or how far, or what kind of distortion nick was getting at his measured spl
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post #187 of 2662 Old 05-26-2010, 04:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by f1nels View Post

Interesting 'Craigsubs' graph is the FR at 100db, where 'Nicks' is pushing 100-110db which would make the graphs slightly different. Is this just from mic placement or some 'inroom' volume? Just curious. Yeah, so far so good my MFWv2 is still pounding away (and how!) but if it were to let go I'd probably look at Seatons upgrade.For what I paid for the sub used, even adding the Seaton upgrade keeps me well below many subs price point (in Canada anyways) and if it does perform as well as Seaton says it will it should be pretty killer as I am happy with the MFWs performance in its current form.

Room gain is always considerable, I have already stated mic placement(12" from port). My comparison to the other graph was to draw similarities/differences in rolloff and frequency response, not to compare spl measurements. I would certainly defer to the previous measurements by CS as more accurate. My data should be considered more qualitative than quantitative, or only comparable to itself under those conditions.

However, the measurements of V2 vs V3 were done in the same environment/testing method and should be accurate in the capacity of comparing the two different amps under those conditions.

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Originally Posted by ufokillerz View Post

craigsub's measurements were done



not sure how close nick did his measurements, or how far, or what kind of distortion nick was getting at his measured spl

No distortion.
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post #188 of 2662 Old 05-26-2010, 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted by crowcaine View Post

+8 on the avr!!!?? Holy sh*t! I run 3 mfw's -7 from the avr and around 10-11 o'clock on the v2 amp subs and i'm at around 80db where i sit.


! ! !

Lol j/k
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post #189 of 2662 Old 05-26-2010, 05:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by f1nels View Post

Interesting 'Craigsubs' graph is the FR at 100db, where 'Nicks' is pushing 100-110db which would make the graphs slightly different. Is this just from mic placement or some 'inroom' volume? Just curious. Yeah, so far so good my MFWv2 is still pounding away (and how!) but if it were to let go I'd probably look at Seatons upgrade.For what I paid for the sub used, even adding the Seaton upgrade keeps me well below many subs price point (in Canada anyways) and if it does perform as well as Seaton says it will it should be pretty killer as I am happy with the MFWs performance in its current form.

i can't tell you how glad i am that you have had no problems with that sub! such a relief honestly! my 2 original ones are still running fine too...fingers crossed though.
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post #190 of 2662 Old 05-28-2010, 10:07 AM
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Company says the latest amp is more powerful, some users anecdotally say it is clearly less powerful -

Any resolution on this yet?
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post #191 of 2662 Old 05-28-2010, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by cneely8 View Post

Company says the latest amp is more powerful, some users anecdotally say it is clearly less powerful -

Any resolution on this yet?

Maybe their engineering group will publish measurements.

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post #192 of 2662 Old 05-28-2010, 11:36 AM
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Rumor has it that once the VA321 logos get silk-screened on the new amps, there will be an instant 10% gain in performance. Meanwhile, stay tuned ...
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post #193 of 2662 Old 05-28-2010, 04:36 PM
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I've heard anecdotally that it's a sorry POS.
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post #194 of 2662 Old 05-29-2010, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by stevo238 View Post

Ok, I think I got it then. It's a sorry POS-unsuitable replacement. You won't here any more from me on this unless your MFW needs a replacement amp.

So much for that.

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Originally Posted by stevo238 View Post

I've heard anecdotally that it's a sorry POS.

Hopefully, neither one of us will have to find out. BTW, I am curious about your first hand experiences with the v1 and/or v2 amplifiers.

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post #195 of 2662 Old 05-29-2010, 03:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevo238 View Post

I've heard anecdotally that it's a sorry POS.


I have a v3 which works fine. The sound is different, not necessarily better or worse. I have posted some measurements and wanted to give it a while for listening impressions.
  • Output is similar, I'm not seeing 10% increase as specified by the manufacturer, but without seriously scientific testing I'm not sure how much this would be apparent in "real world" listening anyways.
  • Runs COLD.
  • Quiet when not being driven, I mean quiet, I had no idea how much ambient the two EIs in the V2 were emitting, but even replacing 1 has made my space seem eerily quiet.
I really can't tell the difference in the two amps, if the durability of the amp proves itself, I would trade all my V2s for V3s.

Seriously though,if any of you are not getting approximately the same SPL with approximately the same gain setting on the V3 then something is wrong.

My V2 and V3 are as identical as can be expected, about 11:00.

Happy Memorial Day!
Cheers to all who serve(d)!
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post #196 of 2662 Old 05-29-2010, 04:02 PM
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Yea Nick, I never said it was a sorry POS. The guy above you did. I was just having a little fun and he took the bait. I AM going to need some parts for my car in the future. I'm not sure what parts they'll be but I sure hope they're available when I need them.
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post #197 of 2662 Old 05-30-2010, 06:19 AM
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Originally Posted by NicksHitachi View Post

My V2 and V3 are as identical as can be expected, about 11:00.

Happy Memorial Day!
Cheers to all who serve(d)!

Did you measure SPL or just go "by ear?"
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post #198 of 2662 Old 05-30-2010, 01:22 PM
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Ok, had a few minutes to spare, ran another test this time using my Frankenstein-MFW with 30hz test tone from BassMekanik V5.0 and the following config. As usual nothing scientific and I wish I had as much time to get into it like Nick did but honestly, all you need to do is perform this simple test, if one has lower output no matter what you do won't help, it needs to be replaced, period.

No AVR, I used my Mac Pro at 50% (In OSX Snow Leopard, Windows 7 would need lower volume setting) volume which outputs to a Radio Shack SSM-1750 mixer. It runs into channel one, all tone controls set to flat and channel 1 gain set to 75%, mixer master volume at 50%. This never changed during this short test.

Plug in V3 amplifier, run gain at 11 o'clock, start 30hz tone on repeat and hold Rat Shack meter 2ft away. The tone changes intensity, max SPL was 90db, lowest was 86db, turn up amplifier gain knob to 100% and max SPL was 94db while lowest was 90db. At no point did the sound come off as intense.

Plug in V1 amplifier (this is the amp that overheats if installed into an MFW), run gain at 11 o'clock, start 30hz tone on repeat and hold rat shack meter 2ft away. Max SPL was 100db, lowest was flickering between 95/96db. Turn up gain to 100% for a split second, was too much for the driver so didn't take a measurement as it was evidently MUCH higher than the driver could handle.

Plug in V2 amplifier, (this is the amp installed in my 1st MFW) run gain at 11 o'clock, start 30hz tone on repeat and hold rat shack meter 2ft away. Max SPL was 101db, lowest was 97db. Turn up gain to 100% for a split second, like the V1 amplifier it was too much for the driver so didn't take a measurement as it was evidently MUCH higher than the driver could handle.

I was able to back off to 10ft away with the V2 amplifier running at 11 o'clock gain and still getting 91db on the meter, which amp would you choose if handed any of these?

The sound intensity was a tad more evident in the V2 than the V1 while any comparison to the V3 that I received to me isn't worth any further testing, it's much weaker than either of my other amplifiers.

I think it's safe to say that Nick got a properly configured V3 amplifier and I received one that definitely has lower output at any volume than my V2 or V1.

Nick mentions that his V3 is very quiet and I agree, it is very quiet and runs cold at all times, very impressive. I do need to mention that my V2 and V1 also run very quiet but in this regard I seem to be lucky considering other comments to the contrary. The V2 and V1 run hot, even when doing nothing so the changes that the US company made regarding transformer and other components have really helped.

The fact we are getting amps without proof of full testing leaves me cold about getting one that works as well as Nicks. Something is not right with some of the V3 amplifiers being sent out, the lack of testing and then publishing the results leaves one to wonder what the real output is with the new amp. I believe Nick when he says his V3 sounds as good or better than the V2. I think the amp he received will last a long time.

Things AV123 could do to improve this amplifier or any amplifier:

1. Get fully qualified external testing PRIOR to releasing ANY amplifier to the public.

2. When you do release a new supposedly improved amplifier when there are forums full of people complaining about amplifier issues TELL US when you release a new one that fixes the issues we were complaining about. Telling us via an email about a new sale that states "Now made in the USA" doesn't tell us there is a new US made amplifier in the box or if it fixes issues people are having with the previous amp.

3. When you take away some of the things in an amplifier like the control module, how about raising the price of the sub 10 bucks to cover the cost of putting in a blank plate so the consumer doesn't get confused when he reaches back there to adjust gain, freq or phase only to hear no changes taking place. Seriously, very unprofessional swap out here, I understand you need to move product but you do want people to return to your site and buy something else right? Put a note in the box that states ignore top control module as it does nothing. I understand you have this note in replacement amplifier boxes being sent out to replace bad V1 and V2 amps, but the guy who really needs it, is the one who just bought the whole MFW and doesn't know anything about it!

4. Prior to putting a new amplifier in ANYTHING or sending one out to a customer make sure it has FCC approval at minimum. Isn't this a law or something? Telling us in a forum it hasn't been fully tested yet is one of the most stupid moves among more than a few stupid moves AV123 has made the past few years. Who doesn't test a product before releasing it, and I don't mean YOU testing it, I mean the agencies who's job it is to insure what you are sending out won't catch fire. Can't afford UL ok, at least get it done by the ones required by law, unless there isn't one, if not let me know.

5. You say they couldn't print anything on the amp until it got approved by the companies after they test it but really, do you need approval to put the AV123 label on it????

Finally, I am VERY disappointed that I am on yet another amplifier, this time a fully redesigned one. This makes it number 6 or 7, honestly, I lost count. I am going to ask AV123 for yet another amp and a label to ship the V3 I received back. If I receive another one that is lower in output than my V2 I'm cutting bait and selling off what I can and cutting my losses. I'll sell the MFW's for whatever I can get for them and move on, I'm sick of going through this.

I contend that for a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle. -- Winston Churchill
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post #199 of 2662 Old 05-30-2010, 05:16 PM
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Well, that's no fun to read.

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post #200 of 2662 Old 05-30-2010, 10:41 PM
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Originally Posted by tesseract67 View Post

Well, that's no fun to read.

Imagine what it's like to write it, I'm getting tired of this fiasco.

I contend that for a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle. -- Winston Churchill
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post #201 of 2662 Old 05-31-2010, 07:51 AM
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Imagine what it's like to write it, I'm getting tired of this fiasco.

Sell 'em and get what you can and go buy something that works. I'm not a hater, I am a previous owner of a pair of MFWs(first gen) that were problem free and a room full of Rockets. I can understand your frustration. Just friendly advice, GET RID OF YOUR MFWs!

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post #202 of 2662 Old 05-31-2010, 08:04 AM
 
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How sad, AV123 has become the British Petroleum of the Audio community.....
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post #203 of 2662 Old 05-31-2010, 08:16 AM
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Originally Posted by floridapoolboy View Post

How sad, AV123 has become the British Petroleum of the Audio community.....

Or BP has become the AV123 of the the gas companies!
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post #204 of 2662 Old 05-31-2010, 11:33 AM
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How sad, AV123 has become the British Petroleum of the Audio community.....

I think BP has a long ways to go until they catch up with VA321 - and, their shenanigans. Then again, we're all not sure if BP is playing fast and loose with their accounting methods, screwing suppliers out of thousands of dollars and running illegal charities.
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post #205 of 2662 Old 05-31-2010, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by ravingndrooling View Post

Sell 'em and get what you can and go buy something that works. I'm not a hater, I am a previous owner of a pair of MFWs(first gen) that were problem free and a room full of Rockets. I can understand your frustration. Just friendly advice, GET RID OF YOUR MFWs!

Agreed. I sold off my MFW, Rockets and X-Series speakers. A few weeks back, I noticed I still had some X tweeters and crossovers - which I promptly threw in the trash. I thought I was done with all VA321 connections at this point ... but, NO! Last week, I had a bit of water seeping back into my house via my cooktop vent (which run through the floor joists in the unfinished part of my basement). The water got into my plastic packet of receipts - or actually, my VA321 receipts, so those were tossed. When will it end??? Just when I think I'm all done with VA321, some ghost comes around to haunt me. Sheesh!
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post #206 of 2662 Old 05-31-2010, 01:37 PM - Thread Starter
 
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^^^ reminds me of the Seinfeld episode where the valet guy that parks Jerry's car leaves behind the brutal BO that he can't get rid of.
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post #207 of 2662 Old 05-31-2010, 01:47 PM
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I wonder if the problem with reduced output from the v3 comes from a lack of the necessary EQ curve the MFW-15 design needs to perform to the original spec? The amp itself seems to be working fine.

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post #208 of 2662 Old 05-31-2010, 06:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tesseract67 View Post

I wonder if the problem with reduced output from the v3 comes from a lack of the necessary EQ curve the MFW-15 design needs to perform to the original spec? The amp itself seems to be working fine.

I'm just guessing, I think the preamp section is the issue with the v3's that have reduced output.

No way to for me to prove it though.

I contend that for a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle. -- Winston Churchill
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post #209 of 2662 Old 06-01-2010, 05:06 PM
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Anyone know how to set Phase on two subs ?
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post #210 of 2662 Old 06-01-2010, 05:14 PM
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Anyone know how to set Phase on two subs ?

I set the phase on one to get maximum spl, then run both and set 2nd one to achieve maximum spl with both playing test tones.

Am I missing something? Probably.
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