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post #181 of 689 Old 08-04-2010, 08:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goonstopher View Post

DSP and amp power. One thing I really wish the 18.2 had done is EQ itself flat and/pr provide more amp power for the user to do so. that would require more robust drivers with higher power handling, more excursion and larger amps with careful DSP. Overall that is why the submersive costs twice as much

Would make for an interesting shootout no doubt.

The numbers Craig posted for the 18.2 are VERY impressive, and early impressions speak for themselves.
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post #182 of 689 Old 08-04-2010, 08:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goonstopher View Post

DSP and amp power. One thing I really wish the 18.2 had done is EQ itself flat and/pr provide more amp power for the user to do so. that would require more robust drivers with higher power handling, more excursion and larger amps with careful DSP. Overall that is why the submersive costs twice as much

I'm pretty sure the 18.2 is using the same drivers, only the 18 inch versions that the submerssive uses though the submersive amp does have more juice.
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post #183 of 689 Old 08-04-2010, 08:40 PM
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submersive hp? i thought the drivers were excursion limited with 1000 watts. 2400 watts suggests a driver change. upgrade to av15's? :-) just a guess but that power would drive the av15 right to xmax in a submersive form factor. that would probably be a push for the 18.2's and a nice design, but wait, don't submersives cost a thousand bucks more than 18.2's? submersives are smaller, but at about $250 per cubic foot, i'd go short cubic feet. :-)

this is just a speculation post. don't beat me up if i have my facts all wrong.

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post #184 of 689 Old 08-04-2010, 08:52 PM
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No Submersive driver change. In fact, owners of the old Submersive can upgrade for $300 by just swapping amps. Then they have a Submersive HP.
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post #185 of 689 Old 08-04-2010, 09:07 PM
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goonstopher, very good answer, the Submersive has been proven to be a very good performer and now even more so with the extra power. All the things you mentioned and the finish options are the reasons the Submersive is quite a bit more expensive than the 18.2 sub.

Also, don't forget that the DSP besides equing the low end, also controls the sub's behavior when it reaches its limits. In other words, no sub bottoming, weird noises, etc. That amp is very expensive and sophisticated to say the least.

Having said that, I do believe that the 18.2 is a great sub for the money. At its price point, I don't know if there's a commercial option out there that's better, maybe the ED kit of dual 13's w/LT1300 plate amp might be close. Those are heavy duty drivers with serious xmax and great SQ, even though they are on the small side. I believe it's a little cheaper than the 18.2, but you have to put the kit together, so it involves a little DIY.
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post #186 of 689 Old 08-04-2010, 09:15 PM
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The AE AV15X/H subs have 2.5" coils on them, I have the AV15X version. I believe I read some time ago that the Submersive drivers used a 3" coil, in other words, they should handle the extra power. Mark talked about the new amps but not a word about a driver upgrade on the Submersive.
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post #187 of 689 Old 08-04-2010, 09:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dguarnaccia View Post

I'm pretty sure the 18.2 is using the same drivers, only the 18 inch versions that the submerssive uses though the submersive amp does have more juice.

The TCA 18.2 uses 18" drivers (custom?) from Eminence. The Submersive uses custom 15" drivers from Eminence. I'm not sure how that makes the 18.2's drivers 18" versions of the 15" drivers in the Submersive.
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post #188 of 689 Old 08-04-2010, 09:53 PM
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What kind of pics do you guys want?

I've watched the many of the old "warhorses" (WOTW, DTS Haunting, BHD, Star Trek '09, etc) and some new ones (Percy Jackson, COTT, etc.) and the CS18.2 handles all of them at and above levels that I can tolerate - and I love good bass. This sub is the first commercial offering that gets in the ballpark of my old IB system (6 x 18" custom Fi drivers.)

Jim
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post #189 of 689 Old 08-04-2010, 09:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spanish68 View Post

goonstopher, very good answer, the Submersive has been proven to be a very good performer and now even more so with the extra power. All the things you mentioned and the finish options are the reasons the Submersive is quite a bit more expensive than the 18.2 sub.

Also, don't forget that the DSP besides equing the low end, also controls the sub's behavior when it reaches its limits. In other words, no sub bottoming, weird noises, etc. That amp is very expensive and sophisticated to say the least.

Having said that, I do believe that the 18.2 is a great sub for the money. At its price point, I don't know if there's a commercial option out there that's better, maybe the ED kit of dual 13's w/LT1300 plate amp might be close. Those are heavy duty drivers with serious xmax and great SQ, even though they are on the small side. I believe it's a little cheaper than the 18.2, but you have to put the kit together, so it involves a little DIY.

I thought that Craig said the Dayton amps were being tweaked for them to provide a boost in the low end???
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post #190 of 689 Old 08-04-2010, 10:18 PM
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"No Submersive driver change."

confusing. 2400w should drive the submersive 15" drives well past xmax.

maybe the new strategy for the submersive is to hit harder in midbass and limits the bottom end electronically.

maybe mark could just weigh in and clear things up. he tends not the be completely clear because of proprietary reasons and that's cool. what info that can be shared is appreciated, what info that is held back is understood.

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post #191 of 689 Old 08-04-2010, 10:22 PM
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BRAC, I did read that Craig had Dayton tweak the amps for his subs. I did not read anything regarding boosting the low end, maybe I missed it. Look at the test reading of the 18.2 at 63hz and then at 20hz, that's a big drop off, no?

zora, I had a AE AV15X sub with 18" PR's with over 1,000watts tuned to 16hz and was quite a performer. What are yours tuned to? How much power are you using for them? Can you provide some SPL number readings or charts of the AE's vs the 18.2?
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post #192 of 689 Old 08-04-2010, 10:25 PM
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Quote:
The TCA 18.2 uses 18" drivers (custom?) from Eminence. The Submersive uses custom 15" drivers from Eminence. I'm not sure how that makes the 18.2's drivers 18" versions of the 15" drivers in the Submersive.

True, I thought I had read that they were the same drivers, but going back, it was speculation from m-fine. Both are custom drivers from Eminence. One could speculate though that Craig modeled his after what Mark did with the Submersive and his years of testing subs. Just my guess though. Will be great to see some comparisons down the line.
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post #193 of 689 Old 08-04-2010, 10:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spanish68 View Post

BRAC, I did read that Craig had Dayton tweak the amps for his subs. I did not read anything regarding boosting the low end, maybe I missed it. Look at the test reading of the 18.2 at 63hz and then at 20hz, that's a big drop off, no?

zora, I had a AE AV15X sub with 18" PR's with over 1,000watts tuned to 16hz and was quite a performer. What are yours tuned to? How much power are you using for them? Can you provide some SPL number readings or charts of the AE's vs the 18.2?

The Dayton amp has an LT circuit in place of the bass boost that comes on the standard unit, you have to engage it when using the CS18.2 sub. I think Craig said that the amp can push the drivers to the their peak excursion, but not overdrive them.

My last system used (2) AV15-Dual 18PR's and the Keiga 1,000 watt plate amps. Both systems can overdrive my room, so ultimate output testing will have to come from someone else. I like both, but the mid-bass on the CS18.2 is better.

Jim
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post #194 of 689 Old 08-05-2010, 02:44 AM
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In reply to several previous posts, the 18.2 uses custom 18" Eminence drivers. The drivers were optimized for use in a sealed enclosure. Many companies use drivers which work well in either ported OR sealed, but they are not optimal for either. The Dayton SA1000 includes a proprietary EQ to smooth the response.

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post #195 of 689 Old 08-05-2010, 03:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

"No Submersive driver change."

confusing. 2400w should drive the submersive 15" drives well past xmax.

maybe the new strategy for the submersive is to hit harder in midbass and limits the bottom end electronically.

maybe mark could just weigh in and clear things up. he tends not the be completely clear because of proprietary reasons and that's cool. what info that can be shared is appreciated, what info that is held back is understood.

For the most part everything is explained HERE at his forum.
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post #196 of 689 Old 08-05-2010, 05:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zora View Post

What kind of pics do you guys want?

I've watched the many of the old "warhorses" (WOTW, DTS Haunting, BHD, Star Trek '09, etc) and some new ones (Percy Jackson, COTT, etc.) and the CS18.2 handles all of them at and above levels that I can tolerate - and I love good bass. This sub is the first commercial offering that gets in the ballpark of my old IB system (6 x 18" custom Fi drivers.)

Jim


Jim thanks for the pics and your impressions. It is good to hear that from an owner who has owned or currently owns quality equipment to do an informed assessment and comparison!
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post #197 of 689 Old 08-05-2010, 02:15 PM
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Well the 18.2 will be here tomorrow afternoon. I will be comparing it to my old A7S-450. The ED sub amp went and the wait was to long for me had to get something else while I wait for the amp and then use both

Just in time for the weekend
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post #198 of 689 Old 08-05-2010, 02:36 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stix2 View Post

Well the 18.2 will be here tomorrow afternoon. I will be comparing it to my old A7S-450. The ED sub amp went and the wait was to long for me had to get something else while I wait for the amp and then use both

Just in time for the weekend

Now this is what scares the hell out of me. How long did the amp on you A7s-450 last before it went dead?
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post #199 of 689 Old 08-05-2010, 03:05 PM
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Now this is what scares the hell out of me. How long did the amp on you A7s-450 last before it went dead?

2 years. The wait is killer tho for replacement parts. It is like ordering a sub again.
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post #200 of 689 Old 08-05-2010, 03:24 PM
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eD's one year warrantee is very weak compared with almost every other sub maker.
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post #201 of 689 Old 08-05-2010, 03:31 PM
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eD's one year warrantee is very weak compared with almost every other sub maker.

Indeed.
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post #202 of 689 Old 08-05-2010, 04:14 PM
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Glad to see another person is getting theirs

Someday maybe I'll actually WATCH my projector...
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post #203 of 689 Old 08-05-2010, 04:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stix2 View Post

Well the 18.2 will be here tomorrow afternoon. I will be comparing it to my old A7S-450. The ED sub amp went and the wait was to long for me had to get something else while I wait for the amp and then use both

Just in time for the weekend

Is that an 18.2 with grills?? I'm just wondering if I can start getting ready for my shipment

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post #204 of 689 Old 08-05-2010, 04:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mojomike View Post

eD's one year warrantee is very weak compared with almost every other sub maker.

Yup, the one year on the amp is, from my research anyway.

However, should an out of warranty amp fail, replacement amps are deeply discounted. Don't know what that discount is, but it is available.
Not sure if other manufacturers do this either.
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post #205 of 689 Old 08-05-2010, 05:39 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

"Ive seen some concerns about the horns on them in past discussions"

in order to match off-axis response through the crossover region in a 90 degree horn, the horn should be at least as wide as the woofer, actually a little wider. without doing this the power response will be choppy and that can't be eq'd out. i'm not saying they are bad...shoot, they are probably a lot better than what most folks have. i'm just saying that they aren't quite as optimal as they could be. there are some other issues, but they are common to all speakers of this form factor, not just these. we are talking about the last couple of percent of performance here. if you have some paradigm bookshelfs or something like that, you will be blown away by the tca speakers.

Good reasonable post. Performance per dollar is why I was so excited about the Pro-10's. I think the sealed subs, especially if you are going to get multiples (eventually) will make a fantastic HT.
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post #206 of 689 Old 08-05-2010, 05:41 PM
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Im just wondering it I would get 2 18.1's or even 3 ha
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post #207 of 689 Old 08-05-2010, 05:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LF911 View Post

Yup, the one year on the amp is, from my research anyway.

However, should an out of warranty amp fail, replacement amps are deeply discounted. Don't know what that discount is, but it is available.
Not sure if other manufacturers do this either.

Deeply? No.... Not a Franklin but a Grant.
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post #208 of 689 Old 08-05-2010, 05:56 PM
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Is that an 18.2 with grills?? I'm just wondering if I can start getting ready for my shipment

Without Grills
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post #209 of 689 Old 08-05-2010, 05:58 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

"No Submersive driver change."

confusing. 2400w should drive the submersive 15" drives well past xmax.

maybe the new strategy for the submersive is to hit harder in midbass and limits the bottom end electronically.

maybe mark could just weigh in and clear things up. he tends not the be completely clear because of proprietary reasons and that's cool. what info that can be shared is appreciated, what info that is held back is understood.

That would be my guess. It makes sense.
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post #210 of 689 Old 08-05-2010, 06:07 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goonstopher View Post

Im just wondering it I would get 2 18.1's or even 3 ha

That is one reason that I like sealed subs. Just add another one when ever you can until all four corners are filled.
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