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post #451 of 1392 Old 11-01-2010, 03:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Murphy View Post

I guess that would be subjective. To some, Ferrari's are way overpriced but to others, worth every penny.


Are you saying the Velodyne is a Ferrari and the SVS PB13 is a Mustang??

Here is the problem with that analogy. The Ferrari is a hand built car that actually has hard core performance specs that everyone knows is superior to the Mustang.

On the other hand both subs are made in factories on an assembly line and both subs have real performance measurements that SHOWS The PB13 to be a superior performance sub.

Now Im not sure but I think car analogies are grossly exaggerated and technically very inaccurate.

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post #452 of 1392 Old 11-01-2010, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by ronnielee54 View Post

It helped. HSU was most expensive (almost 360 shipped for the 10") and it was down-firing which I didn't want in this room (room is only 14 X 14 X 9 so I wanted a front-firing ported)..

Just curious as to why you wanted a front-firing rather than a down firing. Just an FYI, bass is non-directional, so it maters not which direction your sub is firing.
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post #453 of 1392 Old 11-01-2010, 04:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post

Are you saying the Velodyne is a Ferrari and the SVS PB13 is a Mustang??

Here is the problem with that analogy. The Ferrari is a hand built car that actually has hard core performance specs that everyone knows is superior to the Mustang.

On the other hand both subs are made in factories on an assembly line and both subs have real performance measurements that SHOWS The PB13 to be a superior performance sub.

Now Im not sure but I think car analogies are grossly exaggerated and technically very inaccurate.

No, I wasn't saying the Velodyne was a Ferrari and I don't know where the SVS came into this, but, what I was trying to say is that it might be overpriced to you but a relative bargain to someone else. Do you think owning a 250k car or a 3k sub is a practical decision? I would think not by many, yet they're still in business.
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post #454 of 1392 Old 11-01-2010, 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by jaeelarr View Post

Just curious as to why you wanted a front-firing rather than a down firing. Just an FYI, bass is non-directional, so it maters not which direction your sub is firing.

I know, but it has been my experience that front firing with the ports in the front are usually shallower and can be placed closer to the wall when the ports are in the front and I just like the looks more.
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post #455 of 1392 Old 11-01-2010, 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted by ronnielee54 View Post

I know, but it has been my experience that front firing with the ports in the front are usually shallower and can be placed closer to the wall when the ports are in the front and I just like the looks more.

even most downfiring subs have ports either on the side or front. bass spreads out in all directions so the location of the drivers and ports aren't going to make a difference.
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post #456 of 1392 Old 11-01-2010, 07:32 PM
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Originally Posted by yepimonfire View Post

even most downfiring subs have ports either on the side or front. bass spreads out in all directions so the location of the drivers and ports aren't going to make a difference.

But the driver is not as deep as it is wide so a front firing sub would be shallower. That's all that he was saying.

Dumb enough to spend lots of cash on this junk!
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post #457 of 1392 Old 11-01-2010, 08:12 PM
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I just got home from work. I would reply, but it seems my point has been made by a couple others. I don't pretend to have extensive subwoofer experience or knowledge; what little I have gleened from these threads has taught me that the graph for the Lava seems decent, especially considering the price. Couple that with a good review from a well-respected member who personally owns much more expensive equipment and I think that is an "achievement".
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post #458 of 1392 Old 11-02-2010, 06:33 AM
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Originally Posted by yepimonfire View Post

even most downfiring subs have ports either on the side or front. bass spreads out in all directions so the location of the drivers and ports aren't going to make a difference.

HSU is 18" deep plus port is in rear, ED port is in front but it is a whopping 24.5" deep. Lava is 16 3/8" deep and ports are in front. We are not talking about most subs anyway. We were talking about ED, Lava, HSU, and Emotiva. Besides I also said I liked the looks of front-firing subs better. Not a prfomance issue, just a cosmetic issue
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post #459 of 1392 Old 11-02-2010, 06:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Murphy View Post

No, I wasn't saying the Velodyne was a Ferrari and I don't know where the SVS came into this, but, what I was trying to say is that it might be overpriced to you but a relative bargain to someone else. Do you think owning a 250k car or a 3k sub is a practical decision? I would think not by many, yet they're still in business.

I was just trying to find the specification differences.

Thanks for the clarification but no piece of audio equipment talked about here is remotely like a Ferrari so I still think that analogy is a huge stretch because A $3K sub is not remotely like a $250K car either.

A $3K sub isnt all that expensive and it is does not give us ultimate performance like a Ferrari. If there is a remotely chance of a Ferrari analogy in the sub world then its might be a Thigpen Rotary sub matched with high end custom subs displacing > 30 liters needing 16000Watts. The SQ, depth and SPL of that system would be unmatched.

Heck, a $3K sub does not even touch the performance if a $1600 Inifinite baffle design which also has the WAF feature of NO BOXES in room.

.

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post #460 of 1392 Old 11-02-2010, 07:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyWash1 View Post

I just got home from work. I would reply, but it seems my point has been made by a couple others. I don't pretend to have extensive subwoofer experience or knowledge; what little I have gleened from these threads has taught me that the graph for the Lava seems decent, especially considering the price. Couple that with a good review from a well-respected member who personally owns much more expensive equipment and I think that is an "achievement".

I've tried to make that exact point maybe 10 times.

Penn, I think he was trying on illustrate that (for most people < emphasis on this) a 3k sub is just not a practical purchase no matter what the performance it gives, hence the Ferrari analogy. On this point, Ill say I hope to have the disposable income to be able to purchase dual ultras or something in that range. But for now, with 4 kids under 12 and one on the way, the lava will do just fine.
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post #461 of 1392 Old 11-02-2010, 07:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ratm View Post

I've tried to make that exact point maybe 10 times.

Penn, I think he was trying on illustrate that (for most people < emphasis on this) a 3k sub is just not a practical purchase no matter what the performance it gives, hence the Ferrari analogy. On this point, Ill say I hope to have the disposable income to be able to purchase dual ultras or something in that range. But for now, with 4 kids under 12 and one on the way, the lava will do just fine.

Sometimes we have to settle for good enough, but IMO, the Lava really is good enough.
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post #462 of 1392 Old 11-02-2010, 08:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post

Are you saying the Velodyne is a Ferrari and the SVS PB13 is a Mustang??

Here is the problem with that analogy. The Ferrari is a hand built car that actually has hard core performance specs that everyone knows is superior to the Mustang.

On the other hand both subs are made in factories on an assembly line and both subs have real performance measurements that SHOWS The PB13 to be a superior performance sub.

Now Im not sure but I think car analogies are grossly exaggerated and technically very inaccurate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post

Thanks for the clarification but no piece of audio equipment talked about here is remotely like a Ferrari so I still think that analogy is a huge stretch because A $3K sub is not remotely like a $250K car either.

Actually, that isn't such a stretch as both/all/some/most/many, are made by hand, in a foreign country, by people that don't speak English. (I hate using 'smilies' but it seems that my writing style is too dense and convoluted to get my point across succinctly.)

BTW-My second sub is on it's way, but no delivery date on UPS yet. I'm pretty sure it will be here by the end of the week. Really excited.
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post #463 of 1392 Old 11-02-2010, 08:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ratm View Post

I've tried to make that exact point maybe 10 times.

Penn, I think he was trying on illustrate that (for most people < emphasis on this) a 3k sub is just not a practical purchase no matter what the performance it gives, hence the Ferrari analogy. On this point, Ill say I hope to have the disposable income to be able to purchase dual ultras or something in that range. But for now, with 4 kids under 12 and one on the way, the lava will do just fine.

I guess but why not just say $3K is out of the budget range.

Using a Ferrari is a grossly exaggerated analogy. Nothing in the audio world is remotely as good as a Ferrari. I have been to the factory and I have test drove one. Its different worlds, real performance difference exists in a Ferrari. Its about as good as it gets.

The audio world does not have that sort of performance difference like that. None of the subs, even $3K ones are remotely comparable to the performance/design of a Ferrari. Its like arguing that both are the color black so they are similar.

FWIW, low cost subs are just fine but they are low cost for a good reason. We just have to understand and accept those real limitations.

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post #464 of 1392 Old 11-02-2010, 08:47 AM
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Holy smokes, you guys will argue almost anything, even one's analogies.

Get a hobby.


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post #465 of 1392 Old 11-02-2010, 08:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Matt34 View Post

Holy smokes, you guys will argue almost anything, even one's analogies.

Get a hobby.


ROFLMMFAO!!!!!!!

Sad but true. To bad that stuff is not done thru PM instead of taking up room here.
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post #466 of 1392 Old 11-02-2010, 09:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Matt34 View Post

Holy smokes, you guys will argue almost anything, even one's analogies.

Get a hobby.



Just want to make sure that no one is thinking their $3K sub is truely a Ferrari

I wonder what that would make My $10K sub system

I will promise to post about the Lave sub, anyone have measurements??

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post #467 of 1392 Old 11-02-2010, 09:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ratm View Post

I've tried to make that exact point maybe 10 times.

Penn, I think he was trying on illustrate that (for most people < emphasis on this) a 3k sub is just not a practical purchase no matter what the performance it gives, hence the Ferrari analogy. On this point, Ill say I hope to have the disposable income to be able to purchase dual ultras or something in that range. But for now, with 4 kids under 12 and one on the way, the lava will do just fine.

Dude, you are so correct! My first subwoofer cost me $378 delivered with a MSRP of $900. I can't tell you how many times I was glad I didn't succumb to temptation and get something that would have been $1,500 or more.

You should get years of use from the LAVA(s). I especially like their 5 year driver and amp warranty.
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post #468 of 1392 Old 11-02-2010, 10:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post

I guess but why not just say $3K is out of the budget range.

Using a Ferrari is a grossly exaggerated analogy. Nothing in the audio world is remotely as good as a Ferrari. I have been to the factory and I have test drove one. Its different worlds, real performance difference exists in a Ferrari. Its about as good as it gets.


These guys might beg to differ...

http://www.dwcollection.com/artengine/

From the site:
"You can see and hear the passion inspired by Ferrari in Art.Engine's every detail - from the racing-style NACA cooling ducts, sumptuous carbon fiber baffles and Ferrari inspired paint finish to the exceptional sonic performance. An audio and engineering tour de force"

I have seen and heard them. They look very nice, somewhat like an engine block with options for all of the common Ferrari colors. The sound - let's just say not so great. Fairly weak bass and mid range, particularly at $20K a pair. Probably would look good in your garage if there was a Ferrari there however

Not trying to argue your point regarding car performance though - driving a Ferrari should be on every guys (and gals) bucket list. A true experience, and one that can be had through some of the new "super car club" daily drive experiences. You get to drive 4-6 cars from various makes for a day. Mine included a Ford GT, Merc 65 Black Series, Ferrari 430, Lambo Gallardo, and an Audi R8 V10. Probably the best birthday gift my wife (or anyone else) has ever gotten for me. Liked the 430 the best, though they were all great in somewhat different ways.

Sorry now returning to thread to the actual topic.
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post #469 of 1392 Old 11-02-2010, 11:06 AM
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Just integrated the Lava 12" sub to my computer system. It consists of left over audio parts I have (Sony STR-DE597, JBL Balboa Center Channel, Insignia NSB-2111 bookshelf speakers).

It doesn't get as loud or go as deep as my PC12+ (it would knock the Insignia's of my desk), but I'm very impressed for the price that it is available for. It's very tempting to a 2nd one for S&G's.
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post #470 of 1392 Old 11-02-2010, 11:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post


A $3K sub isnt all that expensive



I guess it depends which side of the tracks you live on.

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post #471 of 1392 Old 11-02-2010, 12:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post

I guess but why not just say $3K is out of the budget range.

Using a Ferrari is a grossly exaggerated analogy. Nothing in the audio world is remotely as good as a Ferrari. I have been to the factory and I have test drove one. Its different worlds, real performance difference exists in a Ferrari. Its about as good as it gets.

The audio world does not have that sort of performance difference like that. None of the subs, even $3K ones are remotely comparable to the performance/design of a Ferrari. Its like arguing that both are the color black so they are similar.

FWIW, low cost subs are just fine but they are low cost for a good reason. We just have to understand and accept those real limitations.

You are REALLY over analyzing this.

All the dude was saying is that Ferrari is considered by some to be the best, and he see's some subwoofers in that same light. It is NOT far fetched to use an analogy like that because of the context it is being used in.

Regardless, its all relative. Its also completely and 100% subjective. Some like Ferrari, others like Bugatti.

Either way, if you cant understand what the guy was trying to say, then I dont know what to say to you. It was a fairly easy analogy to understand.
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post #472 of 1392 Old 11-02-2010, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by bfreedma View Post


These guys might beg to differ...

http://www.dwcollection.com/artengine/

Man that's just stupid. Oh and it also screams I have the smallest penis ever.
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post #473 of 1392 Old 11-02-2010, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by ratm View Post

Man that's just stupid. .

Oh, it gets worse. From the FIRST section of the tech specs:

"Primary signal input is wireless streaming of music files or radio via iTunes® (free downloadable software) running on any computer (PC or Mac) with wireless functionality. The Art.Engine may also be used with conventional line level sources such as CD players, tuners, iPods and most other portable devices, via RCA input jacks (accessory cables included)."

That's right, they are marketing a $20K speaker with wireless and iPod functionality as the primary usage and connection modes. At least the "accessory cables" are included.

There is a set in the Ferrari dealership at the Wynn hotel in Vegas if you reaaallllly want to check them out for future purchase.
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post #474 of 1392 Old 11-02-2010, 03:09 PM
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I was at that Ferrari dealership, when did they have them there? Honestly, I didnt really look at anything but the cars and maybe some of the "models" hanging out

Fun link anyways, thanks!

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post #475 of 1392 Old 11-02-2010, 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by jaeelarr View Post

You are REALLY over analyzing this.

All the dude was saying is that Ferrari is considered by some to be the best, and he see's some subwoofers in that same light. It is NOT far fetched to use an analogy like that because of the context it is being used in.

Regardless, its all relative. Its also completely and 100% subjective. Some like Ferrari, others like Bugatti.

Either way, if you cant understand what the guy was trying to say, then I dont know what to say to you. It was a fairly easy analogy to understand.

I know what he was trying to say but its simply an insult to how the Ferrari is built and how the Ferrari performance is measurably better then 99.9% of all other cars. No one sub has that type of differential

Like others said, we can just get back to the Lava subs.....I would love to see the numbers behind these subs.

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post #476 of 1392 Old 11-02-2010, 03:22 PM
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Quote:
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I would love to see the numbers behind these subs.

I wonder when the review from audioholics is coming?
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post #477 of 1392 Old 11-02-2010, 03:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post

I was at that Ferrari dealership, when did they have them there? Honestly, I didnt really look at anything but the cars and maybe some of the "models" hanging out

Fun link anyways, thanks!

They were in the Ferrari gear shop connected to the showroom. Last time I saw them there was around May this year. Had some other cool stuff amongst the typical clothing. A 2007 spec F1 engine and a front and rear wing set from 05 for sale. 800HP from 2.4 liters non turbo is an impressive engineering feat to see close up.

Did they have the Enzo on the dealer floor when you went? If I ever play/hit the lottery, that would be my one ridiculous gift to self.
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post #478 of 1392 Old 11-02-2010, 07:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bfreedma View Post

They were in the Ferrari gear shop connected to the showroom. Last time I saw them there was around May this year. Had some other cool stuff amongst the typical clothing. A 2007 spec F1 engine and a front and rear wing set from 05 for sale. 800HP from 2.4 liters non turbo is an impressive engineering feat to see close up.

Did they have the Enzo on the dealer floor when you went? If I ever play/hit the lottery, that would be my one ridiculous gift to self.

Please move this conversation to the appropriate Guys Who Like Ferraris And Budget Subs forum (0 viewing).

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post #479 of 1392 Old 11-02-2010, 07:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ratm View Post

I wonder when the review from audioholics is coming?

Ask Lava to submit a sample. I doubt Gene has even heard of these subs yet as this is the only place I've seen them mentioned.
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post #480 of 1392 Old 11-02-2010, 08:02 PM
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a little side conversation is ok. penn has 20k posts on topic. iirc the zr1 is faster around the northern loop at less than half the price of the crazy italian. the massive torque makes for a much more fun driver. no mountain roads in florida though...not a drivers state. ;-) how to tie this post back to subwoofer forum...umm...low end matters. :-)

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