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post #1 of 54 Old 09-15-2010, 04:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi,

I hear lots of talk about Epik Subwoofers. There are lots of models quoted and acclaimed including Empire, Conquest, Sentinel, Tower, Castle, etc.

Now here are my questions.

1. If Epik has so many good successful products, why would it "DISCONTINUE" them ? Almost every sub I mentioned from EPIK (except EMPIRE) is dis-continued?

2. I saw one member posting....Epik subs are inside joke in audio industry ? Is this really true ?

EPIK is the only ID company that I have seen that has pretty much every product dis-continued. Just does not give me a good feel. HSU, SVS, Outlaw, eD, etc have pretty much standard set of products they offer for a long time.

I am considering making a purchase between Epik Empire and Rhythmik F15...My room size is 4000 cu ft. I need your valuable feedback to get answers for my above questions.

Thanks
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post #2 of 54 Old 09-15-2010, 04:22 PM
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Epik is a awesome sub. The website is not up to date. It is true the Empire is the only sub they sell for now, the legend soon to come and rumors of a 18 inch Empire type sub in the future (hopefully). I own Dual Empires and have been very happy with them. Check out the link below and ask all the questions you want.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...85079&page=480
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post #3 of 54 Old 09-15-2010, 04:29 PM
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You might want to try emailing sales@epiksubwoofers.com. I sent an email with several questions on the Legend and Chad (owner I believe) responded with very detailed and helpful answers.
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post #4 of 54 Old 09-15-2010, 04:47 PM
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http://news.cnet.com/8301-13645_3-20016275-47.html

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post #5 of 54 Old 09-15-2010, 04:49 PM
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I have Quad Empires and I have had Epik Conquest, HSU, Elementals, MTX, & PE Dayton sub kits in the past and the Empires are it.
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post #6 of 54 Old 09-15-2010, 05:14 PM
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You should really give Chad (owner of Epik) a call and ask him. He is an extremely knowledgeable and nice guy. Better to call and leave a message if necessary, as he is sort of slow responding to e-mail.

I'm not sure where Epik is somehow the joke of the industry. They're very well regarded on this forum.
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post #7 of 54 Old 09-15-2010, 06:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raks View Post

Hi,

I hear lots of talk about Epik Subwoofers. There are lots of models quoted and acclaimed including Empire, Conquest, Sentinel, Tower, Castle, etc.

Now here are my questions.

1. If Epik has so many good successful products, why would it "DISCONTINUE" them ? Almost every sub I mentioned from EPIK (except EMPIRE) is dis-continued?

2. I saw one member posting....Epik subs are inside joke in audio industry ? Is this really true ?

EPIK is the only ID company that I have seen that has pretty much every product dis-continued. Just does not give me a good feel. HSU, SVS, Outlaw, eD, etc have pretty much standard set of products they offer for a long time.

I am considering making a purchase between Epik Empire and Rhythmik F15...My room size is 4000 cu ft. I need your valuable feedback to get answers for my above questions.

Thanks

Your #2 - where is the post?
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post #8 of 54 Old 09-15-2010, 07:29 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bsoko2 View Post

Your #2 - where is the post?

Who cares?"ONE" post declares Epik a joke and it is bible? PLEASE...give me a break. Epiks have some of the best subs today...
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post #9 of 54 Old 09-15-2010, 07:48 PM
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Epik is definitely no joke in the home audio subwoofer business. Their reputation is solid. I do understand your concern with regard to their product turnover though. If a part goes bad on an older model, like a woofer or amp, it seems unlikely that they would keep a replacement in stock. What then? Still, I haven't heard about any widespread failures of Epik products, and they seem like straight shooters, so I wouldn't worry about a MFW-15 type situation.
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post #10 of 54 Old 09-15-2010, 08:05 PM
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Epik is the real deal

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post #11 of 54 Old 09-15-2010, 11:30 PM
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Chad definitely runs a better business than MLS!
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post #12 of 54 Old 09-16-2010, 08:24 AM - Thread Starter
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I will figure out the post that mentioned that Epik is the inside joke of the industry. I will post the link. But I do agree that it is one man's opinion...but a real bad one though.

What I am more concerned with is their revamp of models. Pretty much every model is acclaimed to be very good...then what is the need to dis-continue them....that too to the extent that there is only one model (Epik Empire) left. This is really concerning.

ShadyJ....you said it right...What happens if the current owner of Epik Tower needs an woofer replacement ? or if a Sentilnel owner needs an amp replaced ?

Even though my list originally has eD A7-450s, Epik Empire and Rhythmik F15....I have taken out eD because several people were complaining that amps are not lasting more than 2 years. Now Epik Empire concern is...pretty much every model is dis-continued...

I have heard concerns about Epik Empire Woofers quality ?..Paper Woofers...

Long story short...I am now contemplating between Epik Empire and Rhythmik F15...
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post #13 of 54 Old 09-16-2010, 08:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raks View Post

ShadyJ....you said it right...What happens if the current owner of Epik Tower needs an woofer replacement ? or if a Sentilnel owner needs an amp replaced ?

I have a very similar concern with Epik discontinuing all the time. I am looking to upgrade in a month or two and am seriously considering the Empire because of all the great reviews. I know sometime in the future I will probably purchase a second sub to balance out my system. Had I bought a different Epik sub in the past though, I probably wouldn't be able to buy another of the same model only a year after I bought the first one, other than on the used market. Has Chad said anything about focusing only on the Empire for the next couple years or can we expect some totally new sub in a year?
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post #14 of 54 Old 09-16-2010, 09:00 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raks View Post

I will figure out the post that mentioned that Epik is the inside joke of the industry. I will post the link. But I do agree that it is one man's opinion...but a real bad one though.

What I am more concerned with is their revamp of models. Pretty much every model is acclaimed to be very good...then what is the need to dis-continue them....that too to the extent that there is only one model (Epik Empire) left. This is really concerning.

ShadyJ....you said it right...What happens if the current owner of Epik Tower needs an woofer replacement ? or if a Sentilnel owner needs an amp replaced ?

Even though my list originally has eD A7-450s, Epik Empire and Rhythmik F15....I have taken out eD because several people were complaining that amps are not lasting more than 2 years. Now Epik Empire concern is...pretty much every model is dis-continued...

I have heard concerns about Epik Empire Woofers quality ?..Paper Woofers...

Long story short...I am now contemplating between Epik Empire and Rhythmik F15...

Every single subwoofer is ultimately discontinued. Chad stated that he has replacement parts for his subwoofers. If he didn't change, he would have missed new customers such as myself. I own the Empire. Exercise your options. It doesn't really matter in the larger picture. We all end up with something from some manufacturer.
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post #15 of 54 Old 09-16-2010, 09:39 AM
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Well, AFAIK, Epik is not the only sub company discontinuing its older subs...

Heck, the major ID players that have been around for at least 10years, SVS, Hsu... you name it, have almost all of their older models discontinued...

The way I see it, audio companies would love it if men were to go through their audio equipment like women as if the upgraditis for some men is not serious enough...

Supposedly, speakers, when used properly, can last quite a long time so unless people get pickier or move into bigger places, there should be very little need for upgrade. Newer products provide companies with opportunities to increase their profit margin while satisfying the upgrade needs for some of their existing customers. There are always going to be newer, more powerful, and supposedly better products.

What I mean to say is, I wouldn't be concerned if I were you.
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post #16 of 54 Old 09-16-2010, 09:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zora View Post

Chad definitely runs a better business than MLS!

Zora..This is the same statement folks were making several times about AVS123 as well...Until the whole things started going down
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post #17 of 54 Old 09-16-2010, 10:07 AM
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My interpretation of the model turnover at Epik in the last year follows. Much of this is AFAIK or "my guess", so if I am incorrect, please don't flame, just politely correct:

AFAIK the Empire is assembled in the US from parts manufactured overseas. And AFAIK all previous models were fully manufactured in the US, including the woodworking.

When Epik (i.e. Chad) designed the Empire, I suspect he consciously chose to farm out the parts manufacturing to lower overall costs. When the Empire became very popular, maybe it became apparent that trying to have two separate manufacturing schemas wasn't very efficient, and that he could re-assign current US-based staff to just assembling as many Empires as he could order parts for. And that was the more profitable option. If it isn't practical to have the overseas supplier(s) manufacture the older (originall US-made) models, it then makes sense to discontinue all the US-manufactured models, and design up more models that can be outsourced for manufacturing like the Empire.

So the Legend gets released soon, and the postulated Bigger_Than_Empire model is undergoing design and manufacturing quotes right now.

Eventually, perhaps a new model comes out to replace the Empire, but I don't think we'll be seeing annual cycling of the line-up. Perhaps variations on the themes (a ported Empire, or a single-driver Legend).

But I don't know - I'm not Chad - never even spoken to him. Just a happy Empire customer, saving up nickels, dimes, quid and euros to maybe get another.

Actually, if the hypothetical Bigger_Than_Empire model comes to light, I would be very interested in how well one of those would pair up with an Empire - might be a good way to level out room response with a little bit of deeper extension too.

Again, AFAIK, IMHO, and full of WAGs,

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post #18 of 54 Old 09-16-2010, 10:40 AM
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This is my guess and it's pretty simple...you guys didn't buy enough of the earlier revs. Every sub was hand built and each box cut and assembled by Chad personally. Without more volume, he couldn't expand his staff and he was being driven to an early grave to keep up. So he changed his business model. The Empire design is so good and equals or eclipses every other Epik rev except the Conquest which negates the need for the earlier revs. It's priced so aggressively, that it's become a hit...and it deserves to be. He's expanding his line again slowly. The Legend will be his smaller entry level sub. The Empire is his bread and butter sub and the rumored TOTL entry will be his statment piece.

AFAIK, he still has parts to support the earlier revs. He's a smart guy and loves his customers.

From all reports, he's selling alot of Empires. The Legend will be a hit too. I wouldn't be worried about seeing these lines discontinued.

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post #19 of 54 Old 09-16-2010, 12:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shinksma View Post

My interpretation of the model turnover at Epik in the last year follows. Much of this is AFAIK or "my guess", so if I am incorrect, please don't flame, just politely correct:

AFAIK the Empire is assembled in the US from parts manufactured overseas. And AFAIK all previous models were fully manufactured in the US, including the woodworking.

When Epik (i.e. Chad) designed the Empire, I suspect he consciously chose to farm out the parts manufacturing to lower overall costs. When the Empire became very popular, maybe it became apparent that trying to have two separate manufacturing schemas wasn't very efficient, and that he could re-assign current US-based staff to just assembling as many Empires as he could order parts for. And that was the more profitable option. If it isn't practical to have the overseas supplier(s) manufacture the older (originall US-made) models, it then makes sense to discontinue all the US-manufactured models, and design up more models that can be outsourced for manufacturing like the Empire.

So the Legend gets released soon, and the postulated Bigger_Than_Empire model is undergoing design and manufacturing quotes right now.

Eventually, perhaps a new model comes out to replace the Empire, but I don't think we'll be seeing annual cycling of the line-up. Perhaps variations on the themes (a ported Empire, or a single-driver Legend).

But I don't know - I'm not Chad - never even spoken to him. Just a happy Empire customer, saving up nickels, dimes, quid and euros to maybe get another.

Actually, if the hypothetical Bigger_Than_Empire model comes to light, I would be very interested in how well one of those would pair up with an Empire - might be a good way to level out room response with a little bit of deeper extension too.

Again, AFAIK, IMHO, and full of WAGs,

shinksma


I totally agree, and you are spot on AFAIK as well.

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post #20 of 54 Old 09-16-2010, 12:20 PM
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Chad also mentioned that packaging costs were a big killer. Having a larger product line (before the Empire, he had 6 different subs) cost a lot in terms of packaging.

Evidently, it costs him less to produce packaging for a smaller product line. Chad runs a small business in a competitive industry. He has to think about costs that we wouldn't give a thought to, and evidently this is one of those things.
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post #21 of 54 Old 09-16-2010, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raks View Post

I will figure out the post that mentioned that Epik is the inside joke of the industry. I will post the link. But I do agree that it is one man's opinion...but a real bad one though.

It's the Internet. People can post whatever, and there are a lot of fanboys out there who will trash wellmade products for no legitimate reason.

Don't believe everything on the Interwebz! A duck's quack DOES echo!
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post #22 of 54 Old 09-16-2010, 12:47 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raks View Post

Zora..This is the same statement folks were making several times about AVS123 as well...Until the whole things started going down

I really really really can't believe you are comparing Epik to MLS...
wow...just wow...
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post #23 of 54 Old 09-16-2010, 12:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raks View Post

Zora..This is the same statement folks were making several times about AVS123 as well...Until the whole things started going down

Ignorance is bliss!
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post #24 of 54 Old 09-16-2010, 01:05 PM
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I think there were a lot of rumblings about AV123 long before the whole extent was known.

Don't believe everything on the Interwebz! A duck's quack DOES echo!
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post #25 of 54 Old 09-16-2010, 01:59 PM
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Quote:
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I think there were a lot of rumblings about AV123 long before the whole extent was known.

It was a cult like following that most it seemed didnt believe until they were mixing the kool-aid!
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post #26 of 54 Old 09-16-2010, 02:17 PM - Thread Starter
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The outsourcing of components leading to dis-continuing of the previous models may hold water. It is a possible explanation for such a radical dis-continuation of product line.

Now...Epik Empire vs Rhythmik F15...for a 4000 cu ft room, for 50% HT and 50% Music...what are the recommendations ?

I already own a HSU VTF-3 MK-3 sub with Klipsch RF-82...How does Epik Empire and Rhythmik compare to that ?

My speakers are Monitor Audio 225 HD and the other set are Klipsch RF-82 Towers.
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post #27 of 54 Old 09-16-2010, 02:19 PM - Thread Starter
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For some reason I did not like Rocket Speakers...and I felt they were way overrated. I ended up with Totems
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post #28 of 54 Old 09-16-2010, 02:20 PM - Thread Starter
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yes AV123 sounded very bit all the hype. That is why I have some apprehensions about ID companies...I dont want Epik / Rhythmik to be the same
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post #29 of 54 Old 09-16-2010, 02:25 PM
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I had an HSU 3.3 before owning my current subwoofer which is an Epik Phoenix. The Phoenix can take everything I have thrown at it including WOTW near reference levels . The HSU, while a great subwoofer, could not come anywhere near it.
Since the Empire and Rythmik are sealed, I don't think you can compare them to the ported HSU you have. That said though, I would think the Empire would beast the Rythmik in slam factor for HT. For music I would guess it would be much closer.

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post #30 of 54 Old 09-16-2010, 03:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gov View Post

I had an HSU 3.3 before owning my current subwoofer which is an Epik Phoenix. The Phoenix can take everything I have thrown at it including WOTW near reference levels . The HSU, while a great subwoofer, could not come anywhere near it.
Since the Empire and Rythmik are sealed, I don't think you can compare them to the ported HSU you have. That said though, I would think the Empire would beast the Rythmik in slam factor for HT. For music I would guess it would be much closer.

But in that context, why not try the new FV15 vented servo sub instead. It is not that more expensive and it gets more output than sealed sub in the same enclosure size. The servo keeps the sound quality close to sealed subs. It gets the best from both world.
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