Advice sought -- musical sub - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 14 Old 10-20-2010, 07:44 AM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
dr-l-music's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 6
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Hi, all --

I'm a newbie here. I have tried the search function, but would really appreciate some live interaction:

My primary consideration is a realistic, not-boomy, subwoofer which will complement my new B&W 683s, both for HT/TV and for music. Obviously I want both, but music trumps HT/TV if need be. I'm looking for the right sub and why it will work for me.

Here's what I've listened to and here are my first impressions:
B&W ASW610 -- although they are matched to my fronts, I didn't really like the sound -- I can't articulate, but it wasn't in any way realistic
Klipsch 10" (I think it was the RPW-10) -- no "pop" to the sound, kind of thuddy
Velodyne -- various in the DLS-series (their 10", 12" and 15"). As they get bigger, it's clearly more bass, but not (to my ears) "good" bass despite the $1000 price tag for the 15"
Energy Veritas 10" (VS10B, I think) -- this sounded really good to me. Definitely the right direction! $1200Cdn new at Future Shop
Paradigm PDR-8 -- just sold it; I never liked the fidelity of the sound for anything (and I've been selling off my Paradigm entry level HT speakers).

Based on that, here's what appeals to me apart from the Energy Veritas, based solely on what I've read, not heard:
Mirage BPS-150 or -400. I notice Mirage doesn't make these anymore. Can someone educate me as to the evolution of Mirage's subwoofer line, and if any of the current models should be contenders based on what I care about?
SVS -- either the 10 or 12". I notice they're upgrading their models. Should I care?
I haven't listened to an 8" sub that I like, but does that mean you need at least 10" for 25Hz or better response?

Other things you need to know:
Equipment -- Yamaha RX-A800, B&W 683 front, B&W HTM-61 center, Paradigm Atom v.2 or Mission 760i surround rear
Size requirements -- would hate to go any bigger than 20" in any dimension or so for size, but willing to explore if necessary
Room dimensions -- 11"x17", significant (~50%) open to much larger area along one 17" wall, 9' ceiling opening up to 12' cathedral ceiling
Primary uses -- more HT/TV than music, but a bias towards music trumps HT requirement (I care much more about fidelity/clarity/good match to my B&Ws than rattle-the-floor HT)
Listening habits -- jazz/classical/rock in that order at not rock-the-house volume, HT at in-the-theater (or a little less) volume.
Response needed -- I know everyone wants <20Hz, but fidelity is more important to me than the last Hz. That said, only 30Hz would be not good enough.
Appearance requirements -- secondary, but must be palatable to my wife
Timeframe -- everyone wants "now", but I've waited for years; a few weeks or months won't matter in the long run
Budget -- TBD (I know, but I'm really trying figure out what's out there). If the only way to get good sound is to pay more than $1000, I'll postpone the purchase while I hunt for the desired model used. Ideally $500 (used is no problem at all) is what I'm looking for.
Acoustics -- this room is not sound treated (but may be in the future). I run a recording studio and have other sound treated rooms and fully grasp what acoustic treatment can do. Willing to listen to "this sub would be perfect, but you absolutely have to treat the room to get the sound".
Geography -- I live in Canada, but get to the US often enough that I could buy in the US if need be.

Thanks for reading. Over to you folks. Looking forward to absorbing your wisdom
dr-l-music is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 14 Old 10-20-2010, 08:18 AM
Senior Member
 
HOTDIGITY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: SouthWest of Cleveland, OH
Posts: 466
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 16
$500 is going to be tough. My 1st thought is to recommend Rythmik. I have a 12" Direct Servo sealed Rythmik, which I put together, and it is the most musical sub I have owned. It does not boom, and plays deep.

You may be able to find one used.
HOTDIGITY is offline  
post #3 of 14 Old 10-20-2010, 08:46 AM
Member
 
DougMac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 108
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Welcome to the forum! I'll start by seconding Hotdigity's Rhythmik recomendation. I have not heard one, but I did have an Infinity servo sub that sounded great. I like the servo concept and all the reviews of Rhythmik I've read talk about how musical they are. If you're not handy, Ascend Acoustics sells finished Rhythmik subs, but the least expensive 12" is $799 (US).

I'm using an SVS PB12-NSD which is a great sub, but not regarded as being as musical as the Rhythmics. It's closer to your budget. It goes plenty deep, in my room I'm essentially flat to 17hz.
DougMac is offline  
post #4 of 14 Old 10-20-2010, 08:56 AM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
dr-l-music's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 6
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Thanks, Hotdigity. I'm on the Rythmik site now -- new to me and really cool -- again, from the reading, in exactly the right direction for me -- I wish I'd realized before committing to the B&Ws. Do a lot of people do DIY? BTW, I should emphasize that $500 isn't essential, good sound is, and if I have to wait to afford something more expensive, so be it.

I wonder if there's anywhere near Ottawa (or Toronto/Montreal) that one could listen to the Rhythmik subs?
dr-l-music is offline  
post #5 of 14 Old 10-20-2010, 09:00 AM
AVS Special Member
 
bsoko2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Olympia, WA
Posts: 4,317
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 56
Epik Legend.

Dual Submersive HP's


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

 

New HT Room -  
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

bsoko2 is online now  
post #6 of 14 Old 10-20-2010, 09:05 AM
AVS Special Member
 
rick240's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Calgary, AB
Posts: 3,542
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr-l-music View Post

Thanks, Hotdigity. I'm on the Rythmik site now -- new to me and really cool -- again, from the reading, in exactly the right direction for me -- I wish I'd realized before committing to the B&Ws. Do a lot of people do DIY? BTW, I should emphasize that $500 isn't essential, good sound is, and if I have to wait to afford something more expensive, so be it.

I wonder if there's anywhere near Ottawa (or Toronto/Montreal) that one could listen to the Rhythmik subs?

Call Brian at Rythmik. He has customers in Toronto who may let you over for an audition (I got mine through someone in Toronto who has 2).

If you get a Rythmik F12 you will never look back.

If budget and immediacy are important then consider:
- Paradigm DSP-3100 (you can find a local dealer and get them to sell you one for at or under your budget)
- ChaseHomeTheatre 10.2; Craig is located in Buffalo so you can probably go visit and bring one home
- SVS PB10-NSD; there is a Canadian dealer SonicBoomAudio and this sells for $580 Cdn (you might be able to talk them down a bit)

rick240 is offline  
post #7 of 14 Old 10-20-2010, 10:14 AM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
dr-l-music's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 6
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Thanks, Rick240. I've left a message at Rythmik -- I don't suppose anyone has Brian's e-mail -- the contact form on the website appears incompatible with my computer.

Budget and immediacy are secondary considerations to "getting it right". Thanks.
dr-l-music is offline  
post #8 of 14 Old 10-20-2010, 10:25 AM
AVS Special Member
 
CalgaryCowboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Calgary, Canada
Posts: 1,250
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Keep us informed as what you find out. Always keeping track of the best options for us up here in the great white north

My review comparisons of Energy RC-70s to Veritas V6.3
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
CalgaryCowboy is offline  
post #9 of 14 Old 10-20-2010, 12:43 PM
AVS Special Member
 
rnatalli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,750
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Liked: 85
Rythmik would be my first pick, but it's quite a bit more than $500. An Epik Legend or sealed eD might be worth a look as well.
rnatalli is online now  
post #10 of 14 Old 10-20-2010, 01:06 PM
Senior Member
 
HOTDIGITY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: SouthWest of Cleveland, OH
Posts: 466
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 16
briand@rythmikaudio.com
HOTDIGITY is offline  
post #11 of 14 Old 10-20-2010, 01:54 PM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
dr-l-music's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 6
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
E-mail sent to Brian. Thanks, all. I have a really good feeling about Rythmik based on your collective input and what I've been able to read today. That said, hearing is the only true test -- I've been disappointed in the past by what looked great in print. So hopefully...

And are there other subs that are comparably musical?
dr-l-music is offline  
post #12 of 14 Old 10-20-2010, 05:04 PM
AVS Special Member
 
brian6751's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Canton, MI
Posts: 3,349
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 38 Post(s)
Liked: 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr-l-music View Post

E-mail sent to Brian. Thanks, all. I have a really good feeling about Rythmik based on your collective input and what I've been able to read today. That said, hearing is the only true test -- I've been disappointed in the past by what looked great in print. So hopefully...

And are there other subs that are comparably musical?

I tried a svs pb10 and a pc12 before getting my f12.

Xbox One Gamertag = The Barbeerian

PS4 PSNID = The-Barbeerian
brian6751 is online now  
post #13 of 14 Old 10-21-2010, 06:16 AM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
dr-l-music's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 6
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Had a very good conversation with Brian Ding. It really is cool to be able to interact with the brains behind the sound. And, all technical and musical stuff aside, logistically they do ship to Canada, but also it's possible to ship to somewhere near the border (in my case, Ottawa, Ogdensburg is closest, and Rothel's allows parcels to be delivered -- a good resource for Canadians who don't know about it). You still pay tax (it's only fair), but you skip the brokerage fees (which can be outrageous -- even more than the tax sometimes), trading off time to pick up vs. brokerage costs.
dr-l-music is offline  
post #14 of 14 Old 10-21-2010, 06:32 AM
Advanced Member
 
Bluvette's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Orland Park (South Side Chicago), Illinois
Posts: 953
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Epik Legend, although just out on the market is based on the Empire which is very musical. I do not think Epik ships to Canada, you may have to contact them.
Bluvette is offline  
Reply Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off