I'm down to 3 subs...any thoughts? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 29 Old 10-26-2010, 05:34 PM - Thread Starter
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This is my first post but I love what I've read so far.

1. My budget. -$900 delivered

2. Size requirements/limits. I guess I'm more worried about the weight-I live on the 3rd floor of 3 Family house.

3. Room dimensions. -About 1500 cubic feet with an opening into a narrow hallway

4. Primary uses. 70% movies and gaming 30% music

5. Listening habits. -At times I will be cranking this system for movies but much of the time it will be low level listening

6. Appearance requirements. Not really concerned

7. Timeframe. I want it yesterday. Actually, my whole system (PSB Imagine center and towers with smaller surrounds along with a Denon 3311) is on its way and should be arriving in the next week

Now that that's out of the way...I've got it down to 3 Subs so far-the Hsu VTF3-Mk3, the SVS PC12-NSD DSP (the box sub is out of stock and not available until early '11 and the Epik Legend. I'd love to get the Empire but it just seems too massive (140lbs). All the reviews I've read about the SVS and Hsu seem positive and I know the Legend is too new for many reviews.

Of the previous 3, which do you like and why?
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post #2 of 29 Old 10-26-2010, 05:37 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeyNowHank View Post

This is my first post but I love what I've read so far.

1. My budget. -$900 delivered

2. Size requirements/limits. I guess I'm more worried about the weight-I live on the 3rd floor of 3 Family house.

3. Room dimensions. -About 1500 cubic feet with an opening into a narrow hallway

4. Primary uses. 70% movies and gaming 30% music

5. Listening habits. -At times I will be cranking this system for movies but much of the time it will be low level listening

6. Appearance requirements. Not really concerned

7. Timeframe. I want it yesterday. Actually, my whole system (PSB Imagine center and towers with smaller surrounds along with a Denon 3311) is on its way and should be arriving in the next week

Now that that's out of the way...I've got it down to 3 Subs so far-the Hsu VTF3-Mk3, the SVS PC12-NSD DSP (the box sub is out of stock and not available until early '11 and the Epik Legend. I'd love to get the Empire but it just seems too massive (140lbs). All the reviews I've read about the SVS and Hsu seem positive and I know the Legend is too new for many reviews.

Of the previous 3, which do you like and why?

I'd go with the Epik empire or CS 18.1. Both excel with movies from what I've read. Weight is not a major issue if you use sliders or a dolly.
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post #3 of 29 Old 10-26-2010, 05:55 PM
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+1...get all the sub you can for your money,if not you'll eventually wish you did.
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post #4 of 29 Old 10-26-2010, 06:14 PM
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Two people can move the Empire to a third floor. You only need to move it twice (once on delivery, and once when you move houses).

Buy as much SW as you can afford. If $900 is your budget in a 1500 cu ft room, imagine in x years (where x < 5, for sanity) when you move to a bigger place with ground floor access and you wish you had a bigger sub.

However, if weight really is an issue, then get a Legend, save some $$ for later, and be prepared for an upgrade should you move to a bigger space.

IMHO, YMMV, what the heck do I know,

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post #5 of 29 Old 10-26-2010, 06:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diamonddelts View Post


Weight is not a major issue if you use sliders or a dolly.

This coming from the guy that lugged his 18.2 with neither of those
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post #6 of 29 Old 10-26-2010, 06:58 PM
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Or buy your preferred SW now ... and when you move to a bigger space someday buy a 2nd one. Many posters here seems to prefer 2 slightly smaller SWs to a single larger one
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post #7 of 29 Old 10-26-2010, 07:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeyNowHank View Post

This is my first post but I love what I've read so far.

1. My budget. -$900 delivered

2. Size requirements/limits. I guess I'm more worried about the weight-I live on the 3rd floor of 3 Family house.

3. Room dimensions. -About 1500 cubic feet with an opening into a narrow hallway

4. Primary uses. 70% movies and gaming 30% music

5. Listening habits. -At times I will be cranking this system for movies but much of the time it will be low level listening

6. Appearance requirements. Not really concerned

7. Timeframe. I want it yesterday. Actually, my whole system (PSB Imagine center and towers with smaller surrounds along with a Denon 3311) is on its way and should be arriving in the next week

Now that that's out of the way...I've got it down to 3 Subs so far-the Hsu VTF3-Mk3, the SVS PC12-NSD DSP (the box sub is out of stock and not available until early '11 and the Epik Legend. I'd love to get the Empire but it just seems too massive (140lbs). All the reviews I've read about the SVS and Hsu seem positive and I know the Legend is too new for many reviews.

Of the previous 3, which do you like and why?

I like the way no one listens to this guy's needs. He's already apprehensive about the weight and every epik fanboi comes in acting like the empire can levitate itself to the third floor.

With the waiting list on SVS, You probably can't go wrong with either the VTF 3.3 or the Epik Legend. If you're open to another option, you may want to check out the Rythmik f12... it has lower extension than either the epik or the hsu and is in your price range.

I'll be honest, i don't know how you're going to get away with any of these subs with your neigbors right below...
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post #8 of 29 Old 10-26-2010, 08:00 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JackOften View Post

I like the way no one listens to this guy's needs. He's already apprehensive about the weight and every epik fanboi comes in acting like the empire can levitate itself to the third floor.

Option 1: Dolly
Option 2: Have a friend help
Option 3: Sliders(once sub is in home)
Option 4: Lift some damn weights
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post #9 of 29 Old 10-26-2010, 08:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Hey Jack, valid point regarding the neighbors below but the HT setup will be above a stairwell/landing. I'm also hoping a GRAMMA riser will help as well. The SVS is available in the cylinder it's the boxes that are months out. If the SVS is an option, would you go with it over the Rhythmik?
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post #10 of 29 Old 10-26-2010, 11:05 PM
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If you are after home theater slam, there are certainly better options than the Rythmik F12 in its price point, although for accuracy, it may be the best. I would go with either the Outlaw Audio LFM-1 EX or Hsu Research VTF3 mk3, either is available right away. The SVS PC12 NSD would have similar output, and might be better for you if you have to carry this thing up and down stairwells. I think the Epik Legend would fall closer to the Rythmik in terms of output, and I'm guessing the Hsu, Outlaw, and SVS would hit a lot harder for home theater.
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post #11 of 29 Old 10-26-2010, 11:16 PM
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Elemental Designs A7s-450.

You're done. Power, Refined, Articulate, Slam.
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post #12 of 29 Old 10-27-2010, 04:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JackOften View Post

I like the way no one listens to this guy's needs. He's already apprehensive about the weight and every epik fanboi comes in acting like the empire can levitate itself to the third floor.

With the waiting list on SVS, You probably can't go wrong with either the VTF 3.3 or the Epik Legend. If you're open to another option, you may want to check out the Rythmik f12... it has lower extension than either the epik or the hsu and is in your price range.

I'll be honest, i don't know how you're going to get away with any of these subs with your neigbors right below...

I like the way you assume everyone that replied is an Epik "fanboi" when only one person recommends an Epik product alone.
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post #13 of 29 Old 10-27-2010, 06:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeyNowHank View Post

Hey Jack, valid point regarding the neighbors below but the HT setup will be above a stairwell/landing. I'm also hoping a GRAMMA riser will help as well. The SVS is available in the cylinder it's the boxes that are months out. If the SVS is an option, would you go with it over the Rhythmik?

I haven't heard any of these subs. Specs and Company Reps. The Rythmik goes lower(14hz) than any of the others mentioned and has a pretty nice finish. It'll also have less output then the HSU and SVS. Since you're down to your final subs, it's worth searching for posts for impressions . ShadyJ makes good points, it comes down to what you feel your needs are.
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

If you are after home theater slam, there are certainly better options than the Rythmik F12 in its price point, although for accuracy, it may be the best. I would go with either the Outlaw Audio LFM-1 EX or Hsu Research VTF3 mk3, either is available right away. The SVS PC12 NSD would have similar output, and might be better for you if you have to carry this thing up and down stairwells. I think the Epik Legend would fall closer to the Rythmik in terms of output, and I'm guessing the Hsu, Outlaw, and SVS would hit a lot harder for home theater.

My line of thought is he's already said he can't go loud (3rd floor, two families below him). If he can't go loud, he might as well go accurate and low. If he moves he can pick up a 2nd sub at some point.
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post #14 of 29 Old 10-27-2010, 07:02 AM
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Another vote for the Empire, but all the options on the table are great.
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post #15 of 29 Old 10-27-2010, 07:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corey99699 View Post

I like the way you assume everyone that replied is an Epik "fanboi" when only one person recommends an Epik product alone.

Yea, kinda happens when he's pretty much ruled it out due to weight and the next three posters come in acting like if logistics is a stupid point to consider. If he's interested in lugging it up the empire's a good pick, but so is the a5-350. Only thing is he'll be losing the sub 15hz range and gaining SPL's vs. a Rythmik. Not sure he can even use the additional output.

You guys aren't reading what his needs are. You're just rooting for your team.
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post #16 of 29 Old 10-27-2010, 09:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JackOften View Post

Yea, kinda happens when he's pretty much ruled it out due to weight and the next three posters come in acting like if logistics is a stupid point to consider. If he's interested in lugging it up the empire's a good pick, but so is the a5-350. Only thing is he'll be losing the sub 15hz range and gaining SPL's vs. a Rythmik. Not sure he can even use the additional output.

You guys aren't reading what his needs are. You're just rooting for your team.

Well, I usually find people who are worried about the weight of a subwoofer forget that you only lug it up/down once upon delivery and then again when you move - like any other piece of furniture. It seems like a red herring of an excuse. Does the OP not have any other furniture in that weight category?

And his reasoning left room for convincing him otherwise: "I guess I'm more worried about the weight-I live on the 3rd floor of 3 Family house." "I'd love to get the Empire but it just seems too massive (140lbs)." To me, that sounds like someone willing to reconsider the weight issue.

So my recommendation was an Empire based on his stated desire and the fact that it matched his budget. But I also recommended the Legend if weight truly was a limitation, since it is such a bargain, seems to be getting good reviews in the Epik thread, and can either be paired with another someday or replaced by something bigger when he moves if so desired.

Nothing fanboi about it - just reading between the lines. I like my Empires so I have no qualms recommending them, but if someone rules it out absolutely then I wouldn't try to change their minds. I don't have experience with the other ones, so guess what? I can't honestly recommend them. If someone out-and-out says "I need to choose between models x, y and z and only those models", I usually don't recommend a specific model, I direct the poster to consider the relative merits instead and let them make up their own mind.

The fanboi accusation gets tossed around here a little too easily, IMHO. Of course an owner will often recommend their current system components (unless they are having recent problems) - if I didn't want to recommend it I probably got rid of it already.

IMHO, YMMV,

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post #17 of 29 Old 10-27-2010, 09:16 AM
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To quote John Mayer: One more thing...

If the OP had said "I'd love to get the CS18.1 but it just seems too massive" then I would have tried to have him reconsider the weight issue still and push him towards what he truly desires.

When someone says "I really want x, but there is this one issue that isn't really a factor but I'm letting it interfere with getting x" then they open themselves up to a challenge on that issue.

IMHO,

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post #18 of 29 Old 10-27-2010, 09:20 AM
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It's too bad the PC12-NSD is out of stock because I just picked one up at the SVS factory 3 weeks ago and I love it. It performs very well for its price range and is easy to move. I carried the box into my house myself with no issues. The new amp works great, though I can't compare it to the old one because I haven't heard one.
I also like the cylinder form factor and it really fits into corners well. Plus you just can't beat the level of customer service SVS provides. They're a great group of guys.

Just my $.02!
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post #19 of 29 Old 10-27-2010, 10:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eiger View Post

Elemental Designs A7s-450.

You're done. Power, Refined, Articulate, Slam.

He wants it "yesterday." Not next year!
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post #20 of 29 Old 10-27-2010, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shinksma View Post

The fanboi accusation gets tossed around here a little too easily, IMHO. Of course an owner will often recommend their current system components (unless they are having recent problems) - if I didn't want to recommend it I probably got rid of it already.

Maybe, but when the OP posts he's concerned about the weight and that most of his listening will be low level, should the next 3 posts try and convince him that 140lbs isn't 140lbs?

He's not getting options in the first 3 posts, he's getting a sales pitch - "don't worry about your MPG and all you do is drive it back and forth to work... it's awesome off road!".
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post #21 of 29 Old 10-27-2010, 12:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Quaxtros View Post

He wants it "yesterday." Not next year!

I'm not familiar with all of the nuances of these online companies...are you saying that elemental designs will take a long time between ordering and delivery? And if so, what constitutes a "long time"?

Now I'm hearing great cases for the ED A7S - 450, the CraigSUB(CS) 18.1 Series 2 Subwoofer, the Rythmik F12 and the Outlaw LFM-1 EX. In addition to the Hsu, SVS and Epik. All valid cases, and then there were...7 choices????

What a great problem to have!
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post #22 of 29 Old 10-27-2010, 12:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeyNowHank View Post

I'm not familiar with all of the nuances of these online companies...are you saying that elemental designs will take a long time between ordering and delivery? And if so, what constitutes a "long time"?

Now I'm hearing great cases for the ED A7S - 450, the CraigSUB(CS) 18.1 Series 2 Subwoofer, the Rythmik F12 and the Outlaw LFM-1 EX. In addition to the Hsu, SVS and Epik. All valid cases, and then there were...7 choices????

What a great problem to have!

Now you're talking,I wasn't recommending a specific sub so much as trying to convince you to get as much for your 900$ budget as you can.Like shinksma I have only heard the Empire of all the subs listed in this thread,I do have an ED sub(A2-300) and it is great,but you won't be getting the A7s-450 yesterday.
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post #23 of 29 Old 10-27-2010, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeyNowHank View Post

I'm not familiar with all of the nuances of these online companies...are you saying that elemental designs will take a long time between ordering and delivery? And if so, what constitutes a "long time"?

Now I'm hearing great cases for the ED A7S - 450, the CraigSUB(CS) 18.1 Series 2 Subwoofer, the Rythmik F12 and the Outlaw LFM-1 EX. In addition to the Hsu, SVS and Epik. All valid cases, and then there were...7 choices????

What a great problem to have!

You are not going to make a bad choice with any of these subs. If you are worried about volume level, you can turn any of these subs down. It's going the other way that might limit which to choose. ALL will play at low volume...until you don't need to anymore.
If you think size might be an issue, then it is an issue. It's NOT just about moving a sub into the room once and then again when you move it. Sub placement is extremely important...size can limit that placement, which can greatly affect the sound quality, especially if it's is going into a mulit purpose room, like a living room, where the sub might have lots of other furniture competing for space. More importantly, if applicable, there is the whole WAF thing, in which size seems to play such a huge roll.
It comes down to what is important to you . If size is important, go with one of the smaller subs among this group and know that you are not going to make a bad choice because of it. Don't get all wigged out trying to get the BEST sub out of this group...there isn't one. Get the sub the best suits you. Here endeth the lesson.
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post #24 of 29 Old 10-27-2010, 01:19 PM
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With 1500 sq ft, I think either of your choices will fit you. There are no losers. If I were you, I will go with the "gut" choice you have, because I bet if you don't, you will want it somedays. SW is in most case, very hard to sell due to weight/size/shipping. So, get the one that you know you "really" want and hopefully you can stick with that for at least 3-5 years...
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post #25 of 29 Old 10-27-2010, 01:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diamonddelts View Post

I'd go with the Epik empire or CS 18.1. Both excel with movies from what I've read. Weight is not a major issue if you use sliders or a dolly.

The Empire is pretty massive but I am seriously considering it--and another option I've read about--if you are only on one floor--is to move it around on a blanket. (maybe that's what a slider does ). But I too agree that it would probably be a mistake to rule this fine sub out because of the weight. Hopefully at 140 pounds it won't bounce around my tile floor either.

Bob

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post #26 of 29 Old 10-27-2010, 01:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spiritfox View Post

The Empire is pretty massive but I am seriously considering it--and another option I've read about--if you are only on one floor--is to move it around on a blanket. (maybe that's what a slider does ). But I too agree that it would probably be a mistake to rule this fine sub out because of the weight. Hopefully at 140 pounds it won't bounce around my tile floor either.

The 140lbs. is the shipping weight,I believe it's around 120 once unpacked,still pretty heavy but with furniture coasters it's not that bad to move around.
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post #27 of 29 Old 10-27-2010, 01:53 PM
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I tend to find that just the shipping cardboard make a good slider as well. I use that to move my 200lbs JTR OS, but we need to have 2 person.
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post #28 of 29 Old 10-27-2010, 03:45 PM
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If you get a CS 18.1 Series 2 ("the mono") when it comes out. The amp is separate from the sub. That would make it easier to carry up the stairs as the amp is 20 lbs and the sub is like 70 lbs.
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post #29 of 29 Old 10-28-2010, 12:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeyNowHank View Post

I'm not familiar with all of the nuances of these online companies...are you saying that elemental designs will take a long time between ordering and delivery? And if so, what constitutes a "long time"?

Now I'm hearing great cases for the ED A7S - 450, the CraigSUB(CS) 18.1 Series 2 Subwoofer, the Rythmik F12 and the Outlaw LFM-1 EX. In addition to the Hsu, SVS and Epik. All valid cases, and then there were...7 choices????

What a great problem to have!

I'am looking to purchase a new sub. The ED A7S-450 was on my short list of subs to get. From what I read here on the forum there seems to be a very long wait time (months?) to get a ED A7S-450 sub as they are highly in demand.
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