The Official HSU VTF-15H Thread - Page 19 - AVS Forum
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Old 12-01-2010, 09:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DLS_222 View Post

I didn't like the look of them at first.. I still ordered one and I will agree that it does look much better in person. I'm actually really liking how it looks in my room. It is also much bigger than it looks from the website pictures.

Well said DLS, well said! I think that when the subwoofer is on the floor and we are sitting down, our perspective is different than what we see from most camera angles. Also, the color and contrast when viewed in person is totally different than what we see from the camera. Luckily it looks much better in person, and not the other way around!

Sincerely,

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Old 12-01-2010, 09:41 PM
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Hey Rob,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Tomlin View Post

Pete, I was honestly amazed at what a huge difference the second 15h made! I didn't need any measuring devices to tell me what my ears were perfectly capable of doing! The 15h is so good, I was really starting to second guess whether I really needed a second one. Now that I have the second one set up, I know that I do, and now I understand why you are such a big proponent of multiple subs.

I was lucky enough to take many measurements in our demo room (with Leo) comparing one vs. two subs, and sure enough there was a huge difference. A frequency response sweep will show the differences quite nicely!

Sincerely,

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Old 12-01-2010, 09:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DLS_222 View Post

I didn't like the look of them at first.. I still ordered one and I will agree that it does look much better in person. I'm actually really liking how it looks in my room. It is also much bigger than it looks from the website pictures.

It was the look of it that attracted me in the first place. The pictures really didn't show the size very well.

Jim
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Old 12-01-2010, 09:59 PM
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Originally Posted by sputter1 View Post

It was the look of it that attracted me in the first place. The pictures really didn't show the size very well.

Jim

I loved the looks right off the bat. But my first viewing was in person at the open house, not a picture.
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Old 12-01-2010, 10:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Tomlin View Post

I loved the looks right off the bat. But my first viewing was in person at the open house, not a picture.

hahah, rub it in. Fortunately i've had one parked in my house for two weeks.
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Old 12-01-2010, 11:22 PM
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Finally made up my mind and took the plunge. Went with a 15H and we'll see how it integrates with my existing 3.3. I can see myself pawning off the 3.3 and going with dual 15Hs or an MBM+15H combo.

Placed the order Monday, haven't heard anything since. Not really sure when I'll get it, but I'm already anxious. I've been holding off on watching movies for the past month in anticipation of adding another sub.
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Old 12-02-2010, 12:10 AM
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Hey VEXXD, you can use the VTF3 as a mid-bass module also. Run it in max output mode next to your seat with the driver facing towards you, it will give you the same effect. What's better is it punches across almost all the bass frequency range, not just mid and upper bass like the MBM-12, so I think it might be a superior solution in that regard.
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Old 12-02-2010, 08:09 AM
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Dear mmarki,

Quote:
Originally Posted by mmarki View Post
Well after reading every post in this thread, I am convinced that I have to have this sub. Well, maybe 2, to replace the uls-15 dual drive I have now. I am lacking the midbass slam that I really like. This sub seems like a monster!! I have about 4600 cubic feet to fill, so I am leaning towards 2. I have to sell the uls-15's first or the wife will not be happy with me. This hobby is going to bankrupt me one of these days.

A good alternative would be to simply add two MBM-12 MK2 to the ULS's. This will make for a very impressive combo! That said, if you want more deep bass headroom, then you would need to either add more ULS's or go with dual VTF-15H.

Sincerely,
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Pete,
Thanks for the reply. I have no space to add one or two MBM's, I thought about doing that about a year ago. We jammed as many chairs into the theater as we could, and the other part of the room is a bar area, so no room. I have been happy with the ULS dual drive, but I think it's the upgrade bug that bit me. Maybe it's not much of an upgrade in some people's eyes, but maybe I just want to try something new. I mostly watch movies in the theater about 98% movies 2% music. It seems like the VTF-15H has tremendous output for hometheater, so of course I would be adding 2. Hopefully sometime soon.
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Old 12-02-2010, 08:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmarki View Post

Dear mmarki,

Quote:
Originally Posted by mmarki View Post
Well after reading every post in this thread, I am convinced that I have to have this sub. Well, maybe 2, to replace the uls-15 dual drive I have now. I am lacking the midbass slam that I really like. This sub seems like a monster!! I have about 4600 cubic feet to fill, so I am leaning towards 2. I have to sell the uls-15's first or the wife will not be happy with me. This hobby is going to bankrupt me one of these days.

A good alternative would be to simply add two MBM-12 MK2 to the ULS's. This will make for a very impressive combo! That said, if you want more deep bass headroom, then you would need to either add more ULS's or go with dual VTF-15H.

Sincerely,
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Pete,
Thanks for the reply. I have no space to add one or two MBM's, I thought about doing that about a year ago. We jammed as many chairs into the theater as we could, and the other part of the room is a bar area, so no room. I have been happy with the ULS dual drive, but I think it's the upgrade bug that bit me. Maybe it's not much of an upgrade in some people's eyes, but maybe I just want to try something new. I mostly watch movies in the theater about 98% movies 2% music. It seems like the VTF-15H has tremendous output for hometheater, so of course I would be adding 2. Hopefully sometime soon.

I can certainly understand how the desire to upgrade has a habit of sneaking up on you, but logically I see no reason that the VTF-15H would provide better mid-bass slam than a ULS-15. More output? Yes. More output <20hz? Certainly. But better mid-bass slam? Why would it?
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Old 12-02-2010, 08:24 AM
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VTF-15H would provide better mid-bass slam than a ULS-15. More output? Yes. More output <20hz? Certainly. But better mid-bass slam? Why would it?

The ULS-15 like all sealed designs should have more output below and higher above the tuning point of a ported designs. That is a inherent part of each design.

If the VTF-15H is tuned to 17Hz then the ULS-15 will play better at 10Hz because the ported design has to protect the excursion of the driver and has a steep High pass filter around tunning. Sealed designs also are designed to be effecience in the higher frequencies so depending on the power and the displacement of the woofer the ULS-15 should be the better performer 35Hz to 80Hz.

The ported sub's strength is in the tuned frequency range and not need a large amount of power to get output down there.

If people want performance below the tuning point of the VTF-15H then they need to understand that adding more VTF-15H subs is a waste of time. A quad ULS-15 setup is going to be far superior in so many ways.

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Old 12-02-2010, 08:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post

The ULS-15 like all sealed designs should have more output below and higher above the tuning point of a ported designs. That is a inherent part of each design.

If the VTF-15H is tuned to 17Hz then the ULS-15 will play better at 10Hz because the ported design has to protect the excursion of the driver and has a steep High pass filter around tunning. Sealed designs also are designed to be effecience in the higher frequencies so depending on the power and the displacement of the woofer the ULS-15 should be the better performer 35Hz to 80Hz.

The ported sub's strength is in the tuned frequency range and not need a large amount of power to get output down there.

If people want performance below the tuning point of the VTF-15H then they need to understand that adding more VTF-15H subs is a waste of time. A quad ULS-15 setup is going to be far superior in so many ways.

The ULS is no match in midbass/upperbass to the VTF-15H at any mode.

Cacimar Hernandez
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Old 12-02-2010, 08:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cacihome View Post

The ULS is no match in midbass/upperbass to the VTF-15H at any mode.

Any data comparing the two?

Its well known in the sub design world that sealed designs do have the advantage in the higher frequencies.

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Old 12-02-2010, 08:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post

Any data comparing the two?

Its well known in the sub design world that sealed designs do have the advantage in the higher frequencies.

Data, sure...in my mind, from my listening experience...HAHAHHHA Sorry, I don't write down every SPL session I do, cause I just stop when my ears get fatigued...

I have had in the same room, same spot, same equipment, same demo material, the ULS, MBM and VTF-15H....and there is simply no comparison.

The midbass/upperbass I get from the VTF in real material is more comparable to what I used to get with an ED A7s-450 + a ULS-15 stacked. Which is a bit more output than what an MBM + 3.3 used to get me...

You are comparing apples to oranges, since these two subs have very different drivers, efficiencies, box sizes, etc...If the two shared the same driver, and amp...then I would most likely agree with you.

Cacimar Hernandez
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Old 12-02-2010, 08:38 AM
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No problem. so there isnt any data to really figuring it all out?

Maybe measurements for each would help you clarify conclusions, are you able to do measurements?

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Old 12-02-2010, 08:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cacihome View Post

The ULS is no match in midbass/upperbass to the VTF-15H at any mode.

But why?
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Old 12-02-2010, 08:44 AM
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Mojomike, it could be just the driver and the power.

I can not find the SPL measurements/specs on the ULS-15, does anyone know those.

The VTF-15 is 123-125dB max clean CEA2010 peak output capability from 40-100Hz (@ 1m still very loud!!)

They both have 15" woofers but does the VTF woofer have more Xmax (the ULS-15 is 20mm)? Definitely looks like it has a crazy good surround on it. Also the ULS-15 is max at 1000Watts and the VTF is max at 1400Watts.

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Old 12-02-2010, 09:06 AM
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Typically, good mid-bass slam happens when there is no deficiency in the response in the mid-bass area. Some subs will have a slight rise of the response in the mid-bass area (the opposite of a house curve). This can sometimes be perceived as good mid-bass slam. The more typical causes for a lack of mid-bass slam is either room related problems causing a dip or null in that range, deficiencies in the bottom range of the main speakers or a poorly chosen crossover, or too much prominance in the deep bass range relative to the mid-bass area.

I'm simply trying to understand what it is about the VTF that is providing better mid-bass? I somehow doubt that it has a better driver than the ULS. It is unusual that a ported sub reportedly bests a sealed sub in mid-bass slam unless the sealed sub has some sort of deficiency or poor setup.

The bottom line is that with sufficient displacement and power, any sub or subs can be made to sound any way you want in the mid bass range with a little eq assuming there aren't room related problems or inadequate main speakers.
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Old 12-02-2010, 09:08 AM
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IM 100% with you. I have never seen a quality sealed design beat by a ported design in the midbass region. It goes against subwoofer design principles. I think there is just a lot of excited conclusions lately with lots of great new lower cost peformers, the tests all seem to lack EQing and level matching.

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Old 12-02-2010, 09:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post

IM 100% with you. I have never seen a quality sealed design beat by a ported design in the midbass region. It goes against subwoofer design principles. I think there is just a lot of excited conclusions lately with lots of great new lower cost peformers, the tests all seem to lack EQing and level matching.

Also, advances in technology helps too.
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Old 12-02-2010, 09:31 AM
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Like what advancement?

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Old 12-02-2010, 09:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mojomike View Post

But why?

Because of its crazy midbass output, mojo...

Cacimar Hernandez
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Old 12-02-2010, 09:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post

Mojomike, it could be just the driver and the power.

I can not find the SPL measurements/specs on the ULS-15, does anyone know those.

The VTF-15 is 123-125dB max clean CEA2010 peak output capability from 40-100Hz (@ 1m still very loud!!)

They both have 15" woofers but does the VTF woofer have more Xmax (the ULS-15 is 20mm)? Definitely looks like it has a crazy good surround on it. Also the ULS-15 is max at 1000Watts and the VTF is max at 1400Watts.

The ULS has +-33 Xmax...but again people...the box is tiny, and the driver is more power hungry...

Penngray, I won't post anymore...

Cacimar Hernandez
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Old 12-02-2010, 09:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mojomike View Post

But why?

I have no idea why, but I agree with him.
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Old 12-02-2010, 09:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cacihome View Post

The ULs has +-33 Xmax...but again people...the box is too tiny, and the driver is more power hungry...

Penngray, I won't post anymore...

Quote:


The ULS-15 features a woofer with patented super linear motor. The motor force is linear within 2% over an ultra wide +/- 20 mm. In contrast, most woofers with Xmax of +/- 30 mm will have the motor force within 2% over 5 mm or less.

I couldnt find anything else and that says the ULS-15 has 20mm excursion. Do you mean the VTF has +33 Xmax?

A tiny box just means the excursion of the driver is protected, it also means its models better in higher frequencies. The performance in the higher frequencies will not be hampered by the box.

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Old 12-02-2010, 09:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post

I couldnt find anything else and that says the ULS-15 has 20mm excursion.

A tiny box just means the excursion of the driver is protected, it also means its models better in higher frequencies. The performance in the higher frequencies will not be hampered by the box.

Yeah, put a speaker in free air and it will have lots of SPL at 50hz!

The ULS has 33 xmax. End of story...

Just purchase one VTF and tell us what is happening then...HAHAHAHHA

Cacimar Hernandez
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Old 12-02-2010, 09:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post

Like what advancement?

I think the type of buyer has changed over the past years. Less is more. Green and efficient is guess.
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Old 12-02-2010, 09:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cacihome View Post

Yeah, put a speaker in free air and it will have lots of SPL at 50hz!

The ULS has 33xmax.

Thanks, do you know the VTF-15 Xmax?

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Old 12-02-2010, 09:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cacihome View Post

Because of its crazy midbass output, mojo...

What does "crazy midbass output" mean? Is it crazy compared with it's deep bass output? That would mean it has a non-flat response with a significant hump in the mid-bass area. Does the VTF have this? I can't see HSU intentionally designing a sub that way. I think they usually shoot for a fairly flat response. Is the overall output "crazy"? That would be a good thing, but it brings you right back to a flat frequency response, but not one that would explain extroadinary mid-bass slam.

Is there no one out there curious enough to want to measure the frequency response of their VTF-15's? Doesn't anyone want to understand why things sound the way they do? This is the AV Science Forum. I am here to understand the science behind the sound.
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Old 12-02-2010, 10:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mojomike View Post

What does "crazy midbass output" mean? Is it crazy compared with it's deep bass output? That would mean it has a non-flat response with a significant hump in the mid-bass area. Does the VTF have this? I can't see HSU intentionally designing a sub that way. I think they usually shoot for a fairly flat response. Is the overall output "crazy"? That would be a good thing, but it brings you right back to a flat frequency response, but not one that would explain extroadinary mid-bass slam.

Is there no one out there curious enough to want to measure the frequency response of their VTF-15's? Doesn't anyone want to understand why things sound the way they do? This is the AV Science Forum. I am here to understand the science behind the sound.

mojo,

I think you are taking things too seriously...Science man! HAHHHAHAHA
Bad joke...

Nahh...Seriously...

The VTF has excellent transients, SPL, SQ, tightness,... stops on a dime, etc...

The VTF, as all the HSU subs, has a very flat FR curve but since this particular sub let the user decide what he wants to achieve(lots of combinations), and since I have lots of gain in the deep bass (about 12dbs @18-20hz) due to my room, I decided I like the most to have very strong midbass output... So it is tuned like that...for my tastes! Q@.5, with both ports opened.

At the end, what this science does not tell you, is that what most matters is that you like the sound that you hear...

I have had lots of subs, mojo, from different brands (15-16 maybe from ID to BM), know the people at HSU, and believe me when I say it is their best sub so far.

Cacimar Hernandez
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Old 12-02-2010, 10:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mojomike View Post

What does "crazy midbass output" mean? Is it crazy compared with it's deep bass output? That would mean it has a non-flat response with a significant hump in the mid-bass area. Does the VTF have this? I can't see HSU intentionally designing a sub that way. I think they usually shoot for a fairly flat response. Is the overall output "crazy"? That would be a good thing, but it brings you right back to a flat frequency response, but not one that would explain extroadinary mid-bass slam.

Is there no one out there curious enough to want to measure the frequency response of their VTF-15's? Doesn't anyone want to understand why things sound the way they do? This is the AV Science Forum. I am here to understand the science behind the sound.

Here's the FR of my VTF-15H. I posted this about a week ago.

It's with 2 ports open, EQ2, Q=0.5. I use 1/6th octave sine waves from HTF. As you can see with Q at 0.5 I'm pretty flat down to 16Hz. My 1 port open, EQ2, Q=0.7 graph is similar except it's flat just below 12Hz.

BTW: I can alter the mid bass by simply adjusting the Q control, but Q=0.5 gives me the flattest mid bass.
LL

"What do you mean it's too loud? My ears aren't even bleeding yet!"

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