The Official HSU VTF-15H Thread - Page 31 - AVS Forum
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post #901 of 5186 Old 01-10-2011, 08:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ralfale View Post

In terms of low bass output 20hz n below where does vtf15 stand against pb13?

I don't think they have been compared. The pb12-plus is in the audioholics shootout with the 15H and it costs around $400 more. $ comparison between the two is closer to compare two VTF-15H to a pb13-ultra.

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Originally Posted by VTF-15H View Post

I just read online that foam performs better, but rubber is more durable. Maybe the treatment on the foam helps with durability? Can someone plz confirm?

The treated foam surround on this sub seems to be very durable and I highly doubt will ever be an issue.
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post #902 of 5186 Old 01-11-2011, 04:13 AM
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Originally Posted by VTF-15H View Post

I just read online that foam performs better, but rubber is more durable. Maybe the treatment on the foam helps with durability? Can someone plz confirm?

I wouldn't lose any sleep over it. Each has its use. eg downfiring you would likely want rubber.
Both rubber and foam break down.
The driver was designed for a foam surround. I trust HSU to know what they are doing.
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post #903 of 5186 Old 01-11-2011, 06:18 AM
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Originally Posted by sputter1 View Post

The driver was designed for a foam surround. I trust HSU to know what they are doing.

I agree. Although it is slightly alarming that this new product would be constructed of what is generally understood to be an inferior material, it may be due to engineering purposes. For example, there are parts of the space shuttle that are made out of what appears to be pieces of tin foil and styrofoam. It's quite possible that the foam is of a lighter weight and enables the woofer to move at a higher speed which is the reason for the upper mid-bass slam for such a large woofer -- who knows. And the fact that it is treated foam should alleviate any associated durability concerns.

I say we focus on performance for now and if the surrounds start tearing or falling apart then we rely on HSU to replace the surrounds under the woofer's 7 year warranty.
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post #904 of 5186 Old 01-11-2011, 06:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VTF-15H View Post

...woofer's 7 year warranty.

This is a nice point.

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post #905 of 5186 Old 01-11-2011, 07:22 AM
 
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I'm not trying to slam the Hsu sub because of the foam surround, the new Captivator sub apparently uses it also. I'm old school, I've seen many pictures of vintage speakers with foam rot, that's all. Of course Hsu will cover the driver for 7 years, what happens when the sub is older than that? I know, who keeps their subs that long around here, by then upgradeitus will have set in, so the question is probably moot!
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post #906 of 5186 Old 01-11-2011, 07:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by floridapoolboy View Post

I'm not trying to slam the Hsu sub because of the foam surround, the new Captivator sub apparently uses it also. I'm old school, I've seen many pictures of vintage speakers with foam rot, that's all. Of course Hsu will cover the driver for 7 years, what happens when the sub is older than that? I know, who keeps their subs that long around here, by then upgradeitus will have set in, so the question is probably moot!

You could re-foam it. I've never done it but folks have done it for older speakers.
I've had older speakers with foam rot out into almost dust lol, they were 18 years old at the time though.
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post #907 of 5186 Old 01-11-2011, 07:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VTF-15H View Post

I agree. Although it is slightly alarming that this new product would be constructed of what is generally understood to be an inferior material, it may be due to engineering purposes. For example, there are parts of the space shuttle that are made out of what appears to be pieces of tin foil and styrofoam. It's quite possible that the foam is of a lighter weight and enables the woofer to move at a higher speed which is the reason for the upper mid-bass slam for such a large woofer -- who knows. And the fact that it is treated foam should alleviate any associated durability concerns.

I say we focus on performance for now and if the surrounds start tearing or falling apart then we rely on HSU to replace the surrounds under the woofer's 7 year warranty.

It's only inferior from the "rot" aspect though rubber dries out as well just not as quick. Using a silicon treatment would prevent this or atleast prolong it's lifespan. I expect that's what the current foam surrounds use these days.

I haven't read anything that would suggest that foam is "significantly lower quality" I really doubt that HSU would skimp on such a small item as a surround if it was a poor performer, after all it's all tied into the driver.

my 2cents
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post #908 of 5186 Old 01-11-2011, 08:56 AM
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With a 7 yr warranty I 'm covered. There's no way I'll have any sub for 7 yrs. My upgraditus will kick in when the next Hsu sub comes along and this one will go on the market. In four years I've I've gone from dual VTF-3 MKII, to VTF-3 HO w/turbo, to VTF-15H. As long as the Dr. keeps making them better and better I'll just keep buying.

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post #909 of 5186 Old 01-11-2011, 09:29 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Legairre View Post

With a 7 yr warranty I 'm covered. There's no way I'll have any sub for 7 yrs. My upgraditus will kick in when the next Hsu sub comes along and this one will go on the market. In four years I've I've gone from dual VTF-3 MKII, to VTF-3 HO w/turbo, to VTF-15H. As long as the Dr. keeps making them better and better I'll just keep buying.

I'm currently running dual LFM-1EX subs, which should be very similar to the twin VTF3s you used to own. What is your opinion of the VTF-15 compared to your old dual setup?
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post #910 of 5186 Old 01-11-2011, 09:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke Kamp View Post

I don't think they have been compared. The pb12-plus is in the audioholics shootout with the 15H and it costs around $400 more. $ comparison between the two is closer to compare two VTF-15H to a pb13-ultra.



The treated foam surround on this sub seems to be very durable and I highly doubt will ever be an issue.

Yep. It appears to be the same as the one on the ULS driver.

Cacimar Hernandez
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post #911 of 5186 Old 01-11-2011, 10:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cacihome View Post

Yep. It appears to be the same as the one on the ULS driver.

From the ULS-15 Product page:

"It also has a butyl rubber foam surround. Butyl rubber foam has the longevity of solid butyl rubber without the weight penalty."

If indeed they are the same material.

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post #912 of 5186 Old 01-11-2011, 10:54 AM
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I'm sorry if I don't get the focus on foam over rubber if the warranty is 7 years and the company has such a good rep..why bother thinking and rethinking over this..get a different sub if it irritates u..quality of sound and db's of output for your room seem more relevant. Now for me if the spikes aren't pure titanium then I'm not interested !!!
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post #913 of 5186 Old 01-11-2011, 11:08 AM
 
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Dude, this is AV Science, many of us are interested when products change in design or materials. Of the 3 popular surrounds butyl rubber half roll was long considered the best for high xmax use and longevity. Foam fell out of favor due to rot, but now seems to be making a comeback. Some of us are curious why that is, because of a performance aspect or because of cost. That's all, no irritation, just curiosity.
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post #914 of 5186 Old 01-11-2011, 11:12 AM
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A guy you might want to ask is Mark Seaton since he does frequent these forums. I believe the Submersive also uses some sort of foam surround. I doubt he used it in order to cut corners.
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post #915 of 5186 Old 01-11-2011, 11:26 AM
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The treated foam material used today is much better than before and very durable. Many companies are moving in that direction now and you would have to contact them to ask why. I even believe the JL subs such as the Gotham are using the foam surround now and they cost a pretty penny. The treatment keeps the foam from drying out and therefore stops deterioration.
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post #916 of 5186 Old 01-11-2011, 11:39 AM
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I think the JL Audio F112/113 uses a similar foam material as well.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...postcount=1376

Here was their rationale for using foam:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...6#post13425966

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post #917 of 5186 Old 01-11-2011, 12:47 PM
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Just got myself the 15h. With any luck, it'll ship today and even more luck, be here by the end of the week...
First 'real' sub I will have heard too. Previous setup was horrible (logitech Z5500 computer speakers and sub). Parents setup is Bose but actually has a sub and surrounds. Not the 'surround from a single box' setup.

The hard part is waiting
Really been looking forward to blowing my room apart.
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post #918 of 5186 Old 01-11-2011, 01:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irythros View Post

Just got myself the 15h. With any luck, it'll ship today and even more luck, be here by the end of the week...
First 'real' sub I will have heard too. Previous setup was horrible (logitech Z5500 computer speakers and sub). Parents setup is Bose but actually has a sub and surrounds. Not the 'surround from a single box' setup.

The hard part is waiting
Really been looking forward to blowing my room apart.

You are in for a real treat if never heard a true sub before! Contact HSU as they will give advice on setup and placement as will the forum. Let us know impressions after proper setup!
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post #919 of 5186 Old 01-11-2011, 10:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by floridapoolboy View Post

I'm currently running dual LFM-1EX subs, which should be very similar to the twin VTF3s you used to own. What is your opinion of the VTF-15 compared to your old dual setup?

Well the dual VTF3 MK2 setup was outperformed by my VTF-3 HO w/turbo and the VTF-15 easily outperform the VTF-3 HO w/turbo. There's just no comparision between the dual VTF3 MK2 setup and the VTF-15H. The VTF-15H moves a lot more air than the HO even with the turbo and would just put the dual VTF3 MK2 setup to shame. There's just simply no comparison, the 15H is incredibly power. I used to think the HO w/turbo was powerful until I got the 15H. The 15H just loafs along like it's not even breaking a sweat.

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post #920 of 5186 Old 01-12-2011, 06:35 AM
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Mine should be getting here tomorrow, depending on the weather. The FedEx tracker has a snow storm warning that delivery may be delayed. What are the most popular settings?

So far it looks like this is the most popular for movies:

- Open
- EQ2
- Q.03

And this is the most popular for music:

- Sealed
- EQ1
- Q.07

I plan on keeping it set at the movie mode, then switching to music mode for parties, etc., where music will be played for extended periods of time (I just figured out how to stream my music from my iTunes library on my laptop to my PS3 )...
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post #921 of 5186 Old 01-12-2011, 06:56 AM
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Try ports open and eq2 q.07 that setting is nice i have my vtf15 duals that way
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post #922 of 5186 Old 01-12-2011, 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Robert760 View Post
Try ports open and eq2 q.07 that setting is nice i have my vtf15 duals that way
Oddly enough or not, I prefer one open port, EQ-1 Q=.3.

That's beauty of this sub, you have 5 modes to play with.
My SMS-1 allows me to check visually of all the options.
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post #923 of 5186 Old 01-12-2011, 11:03 AM
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I am close to ordering (1) or (2) of these up to replace some SVS PC-13 Ultra's but want to make sure it is going to be an improvement.

Are there any people out there that can give a comparision between the SVS Ultra and the VTF-15H? Thanks for your help.

Jason
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post #924 of 5186 Old 01-12-2011, 11:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carlm9 View Post

I am close to ordering (1) or (2) of these up to replace some SVS PC-13 Ultra's but want to make sure it is going to be an improvement.

Are there any people out there that can give a comparision between the SVS Ultra and the VTF-15H? Thanks for your help.

What sort of improvement are you looking for? The PC-13Ultra is a great sub.

Any changes, positive or negative, IMO, wouldn't be with the effort....unless you are looking at aesthetics.

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post #925 of 5186 Old 01-12-2011, 11:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke Kamp View Post

You are in for a real treat if never heard a true sub before! Contact HSU as they will give advice on setup and placement as will the forum. Let us know impressions after proper setup!

Unfortunately placement cannot be helped on, and proper setup cant be done

My room is so small, it can only be put in 1 of 2 spots. I also dont have an SPL meter or decent mic for REW. Not ideal, but cant do much...

I will let you know how much damage is done in the first day, assuming the foundation holds out
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post #926 of 5186 Old 01-12-2011, 11:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carlm9 View Post

I am close to ordering (1) or (2) of these up to replace some SVS PC-13 Ultra's but want to make sure it is going to be an improvement.

Are there any people out there that can give a comparision between the SVS Ultra and the VTF-15H? Thanks for your help.

Jason

if you have 2 pc-13 and looking to replace with 2 vtf15's...IMO, that would probably be a lateral move if not a step down in output...IMO, you would see no improvement.
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post #927 of 5186 Old 01-12-2011, 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by cschang View Post

What sort of improvement are you looking for? The PC-13Ultra is a great sub.

Any changes, positive or negative, IMO, wouldn't be with the effort....unless you are looking at aesthetics.

I didn't know if the VTF-15H would have more output than my SVS. If it did, I would consider moving forward. Asthetics do play a little part of it, everyone always asks "What are those two big cat toys doing back there"?
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post #928 of 5186 Old 01-12-2011, 01:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrcoop View Post

if you have 2 pc-13 and looking to replace with 2 vtf15's...IMO, that would probably be a lateral move if not a step down in output...IMO, you would see no improvement.

Thanks Mrcoop,
It just suprises me that nobody has done a comparison on these two. Thanks

jason
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post #929 of 5186 Old 01-12-2011, 01:41 PM
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I have to agree with the above, the PC13 Ultra is a hell of a sub. I don't think you will see a big improvement by trading two PC13s for two VTF-15s. On the other hand, you could make some money by selling the PC13's and going with the VTF-15s without losing much in the way of performance.
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post #930 of 5186 Old 01-12-2011, 01:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carlm9 View Post

It just suprises me that nobody has done a comparison on these two. Thanks

The new Hsu has only been available for 2 months. I don't think many people owning an Ultra are in the market for a new sub.

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