The Official HSU VTF-15H Thread - Page 34 - AVS Forum
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post #991 of 5179 Old 02-03-2011, 03:48 AM
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thats exactly why i am in here this morning. i want to know what all the owners of the 15H is saying? I am actually wondering what Dr.Hsu and Pete are saying? Why such a bad review? Sloppy and weak? Why does that sound so contrary to what everyone else in here said? Got me wondering a lot......
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post #992 of 5179 Old 02-03-2011, 03:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ambientcafe View Post

Congrats 'OldSlow' ....if you don't mind, could you give an approximate tally of your shipping costs, duty, brokerage fees, gst, etc.? (as I'm in Red Deer & considering pulling the trigger) Did you go w/the satin black or rosenut? Enjoy

I had it shipped here: http://www.attheborderstorage.com/Sw...l_Storage.html for $139.
Drove down to get it for gas $ and paid $43 in gst...
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post #993 of 5179 Old 02-03-2011, 05:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimwyn View Post

thats exactly why i am in here this morning. i want to know what all the owners of the 15H is saying? I am actually wondering what Dr.Hsu and Pete are saying? Why such a bad review? Sloppy and weak? Why does that sound so contrary to what everyone else in here said? Got me wondering a lot......

Possibly because you're comparing it to subwoofers that are approx. 36% and 60% more expensive, and much of that added cost went into the driver and amp sections? The review just seems "bad" in light of some incredible hype about the product and measurements that were posted to appease the masses, but not fully understood or transparent. Go back and read some of Bosso's posts regarding the response curves and design choices. I do wish the reviewer was forced to do listening tests blind, but really it wasn't that bad of a review.

 

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post #994 of 5179 Old 02-03-2011, 05:49 AM
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What I found most disturbing about the review is the response curve.
http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/s...iew_fullscreen

Does this actually look like 20hz tuning to anyone? To me, it looks to be tuned at 30hz with a rapid rolloff below that. It makes me wonder if the contibution of the ports are accurately measured in this case.
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post #995 of 5179 Old 02-03-2011, 06:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mojomike View Post

What I found most disturbing about the review is the response curve.
http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/s...iew_fullscreen

Does this actually look like 20hz tuning to anyone? To me, it looks to be tuned at 30hz with a rapid rolloff below that. It makes me wonder if the contibution of the ports are accurately measured in this case.

The review states that they ran the VTF-15h with both ports open, which they also state will result in a higher rolloff frequency. So yea, you're right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kimwyn View Post

thats exactly why i am in here this morning. i want to know what all the owners of the 15H is saying? I am actually wondering what Dr.Hsu and Pete are saying? Why such a bad review? Sloppy and weak? Why does that sound so contrary to what everyone else in here said? Got me wondering a lot......

The CEA numbers posted are reletively close to the ones posted by HSU with the exception of the 20 hz number, which could be accounted for by the difference between HSU testing with only one port open as opposed to the testing done by Audioholics with two ports open.

The numbers all add up for the VTF-15h and it's owners. I think the suprises came from the other two subs-The PB-12+ and the Rythmik.
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post #996 of 5179 Old 02-03-2011, 06:38 AM
 
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I was also surprise on the reviewer,i mean come on.
Just blame on the q filtering tuning controls?. I would also love to hear from pete and see what he thought of of the audioholic review. I also wonder if the reviewer system was setup "properly" lOl
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post #997 of 5179 Old 02-03-2011, 08:06 AM
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I bought one of the very first VTF-15h subs and I've been very pleased with it. I was VERY surprised when I read this review. It seemed very harsh, especially compared to the final score of a 4/5 in at least all categories. The reviewer clearly had vendetta against Bash amps (not that I'm a big fan or anything).

Also, I think he should have tried different arrangements with the ports. I personally use 1 port open for movies and I'm happy with it. The review basically says that changes the sound and allows it to go down to 20 Hz.

In summation, probably not the best review. The reviewer came across as a huge snob who only likes high-end professional equipment.
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post #998 of 5179 Old 02-03-2011, 08:44 AM
 
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Yeah, that reviewer seemed to have decided he didn't like the sub before he even tested it, then nitpicked everything he could find. He didn't like the volume knob, he didn't like that the woofer is a pressed paper design(7 yr warranty), he didn't like the binding posts and thinks for some reason at this price point the sub should have come with a remote. One poster's criticism was spot on:

Quote:


The problem I have with this review is the tester uses the product at the highest available tuning point and then complains about extension?! That is absurd, especially since later on in the review he goes on to guess that the product does have solid bass below 20 hz. But in the introductory bullet points, he says "limited output below 25 hz".

Another problem is the reviewer says the adjustable Q had no effect on sound, even though he seemed to have only used the sub in one tuning mode the entire time. In this case, it really fair to slam the Q control? That is like reviewing a car but only ever driving it in first gear!

The reviewer didn't seem to be aware that with the Q control and the port plugs you can really tune this thing for extension well below 20 Hz.

Edit: This same reviewer criticized the crossover range, 30 - 90 Hz, and didn't seem aware that you can defeat this and allow the AVR or whatever to set the range. He said this is his strongest complaint! Was this guy in a hurry or something?
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post #999 of 5179 Old 02-03-2011, 09:25 AM
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What I still am not getting is the stark difference as to what HSU considers to be "20hz tuning" vs SVS's version. Look at these two response curves:
http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/s...iew_fullscreen

and

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/s...iew_fullscreen

Note that with both subs in 20hz mode, the HSU appears to begin to roll off a full 10hz higher. I know very well what response curves look like for a sub that is tuned to 20hz. This doesn't look like that.
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post #1000 of 5179 Old 02-03-2011, 09:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mojomike View Post

What I still am not getting is the stark difference as to what HSU considers to be "20hz tuning" vs SVS's version. Look at these two response curves...

I wonder if it has anything to do with where the Q control was set.

If anything, certainly interesting.

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post #1001 of 5179 Old 02-03-2011, 10:01 AM
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Are there no owners here who have (or can) posted an in-room graph of their VTF?

Stephen.

Chances are very good that I was drinking when I posted the above.

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post #1002 of 5179 Old 02-03-2011, 10:04 AM
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mojo,

I won't look at those graphs again...as I am using my black suit today.

Nahhh...the sub is really excellent. I am confused about the graph's rolloff definately. Not what I experience in my house at all.

Cacimar Hernandez
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post #1003 of 5179 Old 02-03-2011, 10:11 AM
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I do think that the reviewer is short-changing the readers by not exploring the different modes that this sub is capable of utilizing. I think that same also applies to the SVS review.
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post #1004 of 5179 Old 02-03-2011, 10:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ambientcafe View Post

Congrats 'OldSlow' ....if you don't mind, could you give an approximate tally of your shipping costs, duty, brokerage fees, gst, etc.? (as I'm in Red Deer & considering pulling the trigger) Did you go w/the satin black or rosenut? Enjoy

Satin black to Edmonton...

Quote from HSU: 1099 USD
Credit Card total: 1156 CAD (exchange + 2 or 2.5% charge by Visa)
FedEx (duty(6.5%) + GST(5%)): $116

Total to my door: $1272

Pretty much $400 above advertised price. If I buy another, I'll be taking a road trip. Even my wife agrees.
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post #1005 of 5179 Old 02-03-2011, 10:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mojomike View Post

I do think that the reviewer is short-changing the readers by not exploring the different modes that this sub is capable of utilizing. I think that same also applies to the SVS review.

Agreed. It would have been very easy to put the plugs in, change Q (or tuning option in the case of SVS), and run the sweeps again. A shame really.

 

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post #1006 of 5179 Old 02-03-2011, 10:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mojomike View Post

I do think that the reviewer is short-changing the readers by not exploring the different modes that this sub is capable of utilizing. I think that same also applies to the SVS review.

Agreed....and the Rythmik review too.

My guess is it was too time consuming. The reviews have some good info, but are not very in-depth.

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post #1007 of 5179 Old 02-03-2011, 10:28 AM
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Hi guys, I will be commenting later today, stay tuned...

Pete - Hsu Research
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post #1008 of 5179 Old 02-03-2011, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete_Hsu View Post

Hi guys, I will be commenting later today, stay tuned...

About 250 people out there are going to go grab a drink, take a bathroom break, then sit down and start hitting the refresh button.

Stephen.

Chances are very good that I was drinking when I posted the above.

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post #1009 of 5179 Old 02-03-2011, 10:41 AM
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I think many of us need to get a life.
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post #1010 of 5179 Old 02-03-2011, 10:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sb1 View Post

About 250 people out there are going to go grab a drink, take a bathroom break, then sit down and start hitting the refresh button.

LOL, I am gonna go grab a glass of Diet Mt Dew.
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post #1011 of 5179 Old 02-03-2011, 10:42 AM
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^^^^ LOL. Good one.

sent via Morse code...........

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mojomike View Post

What I still am not getting is the stark difference as to what HSU considers to be "20hz tuning" vs SVS's version. Look at these two response curves:
http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/s...iew_fullscreen

and

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/s...iew_fullscreen

Note that with both subs in 20hz mode, the HSU appears to begin to roll off a full 10hz higher. I know very well what response curves look like for a sub that is tuned to 20hz. This doesn't look like that.


Well, I'm not a sub guru like some, but the audioholics tests were done with only one setting on the Hsu sub. The max extension option gained by using one plug and adjusting the Q control was not tested. Like one guy said, it's like testing a car by only using one gear and then complaining about it.
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post #1013 of 5179 Old 02-03-2011, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mojomike View Post

I think many of us need to get a life.

HAHHAHHAHAH

Don't look at me!!!

I am beginning to like Bose....ahahahahah

mojo,

You mean because of my black suit?(please don't answer)

Cacimar Hernandez
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post #1014 of 5179 Old 02-03-2011, 10:53 AM
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If you look at the manual it states :

1) Ported Max Output Mode: 2 ports open, and operating mode switch set to EQ2. This mode is ideal for those with medium-to-large
room sizes who listen at high playback levels and want the strongest mid-bass possible. NOTE: Never operate the subwoofer with 2
ports open and operating mode switch set to EQ1', as this may damage the driver and void the warranty.
2) Ported Max Extension Mode: 1 port open, and operating mode switch set to EQ1'. This mode is ideal for those with medium-to-large
room sizes, or small to medium rooms but who listen at low-to-moderate playback levels where the rising low bass from room gain
will help compensate for the ear's insensitivity to bass at lower levels.
3) Ported Max Headroom Mode: 1 port open, and operating mode switch set to EQ2'. This mode is ideal for those with medium-tolarge room sizes who listen at high playback levels and want the deepest bass extension.

The way I read it I would select either option #2 or #3. The reviewer obviously had it in 1.
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post #1015 of 5179 Old 02-03-2011, 11:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sb1 View Post

Are there no owners here who have (or can) posted an in-room graph of their VTF?

Here my in room response of my VTF-15H 1 port EQ1 Q=.3, No EQ from the listening postion. This is measuring output of the sub only, input via AVR with 12db /octave crossover at 80hz.

Measurement taken with RS digital meter using REW.



For more of a history read my thread on home theatre shack: http://www.hometheatershack.com/foru...ng-graphs.html

Daniel
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post #1016 of 5179 Old 02-03-2011, 12:08 PM
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I think it was a good review.

People need to realize that it was done with two ports open. Just imagine what possible results the reviewer could of gotten with 1 port closed. OR like Dr. HSU says you can do, over damped mode: 1 port closed but the switch on the amp set to two ports open for more spl but still a bottom end. I can't talk about the EQ knob setting as I don't have this sub but I bet it would make for even more fine tuning.

Thats the great thing about these subs is that there are many different ways to run them. Now the reviewer couldn't test this sub in all these different ways. Probably didn't have the time AND it would be unfair to the other subs as their are not as flexible as this subwoofer is.

People should not be down playing this sub down. Read the review, then read the possible tuning methods for this sub and answer your own questions. 20Hz or a little below is easily obtainable. If I can obtain it with my vtf 3.3's you can too with your vtf-15H. And don't forget the price!
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post #1017 of 5179 Old 02-03-2011, 12:20 PM
 
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No, it was a poorly done review.

It was never fully tested. The reviewer was obviously biased against it from the start, for whatever reason. He sounds a bit snobbish, perhaps he's used to sealed $1500 subs the way he criticized the Bash amp like Bash is crap or something. The volume knob, the crossover, the 370 watt rating and the paper cone. But he never tested the sub in max extension mode and then criticizes it for not having much bass below 25 Hz! Give me a break.
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post #1018 of 5179 Old 02-03-2011, 12:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by runnin' View Post
No, it was a poorly done review.

It was never fully tested. The reviewer was obviously biased against it from the start, for whatever reason. He sounds a bit snobbish, perhaps he's used to sealed $1500 subs the way he criticized the Bash amp like Bash is crap or something. The volume knob, the crossover, the 370 watt rating and the paper cone. But he never tested the sub in max extension mode and then criticizes it for not having much bass below 25 Hz! Give me a break.
while I agree the review could have been better in a number of ways, every person has their own biases that will skew how they react to experiences and data. Clearly they did not skew the data to conform to preconceptions. I'm anxious to see the response from the folks at Hsu, but I would not be put off by this review. After all, their FR chart looks very much like Hsu's own FR plot for the condition they tested.

At least he acknolwedged that more extension is available. As noted either above or in another thread, as long as you don't focus too much on the bullet point summary or the stars, the review is overall quite positive. In mean, even as tested, clean SPL is in the 120 dB range from 30 to the top end of the test (63 Hz). Not too shabby for an "underpowered" sub.
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post #1019 of 5179 Old 02-03-2011, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sepen View Post
If you look at the manual it states :

1) Ported Max Output Mode: 2 ports open, and operating mode switch set to EQ2. This mode is ideal for those with medium-to-large
room sizes who listen at high playback levels and want the strongest mid-bass possible. NOTE: Never operate the subwoofer with 2
ports open and operating mode switch set to EQ1', as this may damage the driver and void the warranty.
2) Ported Max Extension Mode: 1 port open, and operating mode switch set to EQ1'. This mode is ideal for those with medium-to-large
room sizes, or small to medium rooms but who listen at low-to-moderate playback levels where the rising low bass from room gain
will help compensate for the ear's insensitivity to bass at lower levels.
3) Ported Max Headroom Mode: 1 port open, and operating mode switch set to EQ2'. This mode is ideal for those with medium-tolarge room sizes who listen at high playback levels and want the deepest bass extension.

The way I read it I would select either option #2 or #3. The reviewer obviously had it in 1.
I don't have this sub but I am curious as to why #3 would enable you high playback levels and #1 also says high playback levels. I understand that plugging 1 port will provide a deeper frequency but wouldn't that affect the playback levels? I mean you now have 1 less port open so wouldn't that make it more susceptible to port noise at high playback levels? Does this mean that option 3 will play just as loud as option 1? I would have thought #3 would be moderate playback levels with deepest bass extension. How does this work?
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post #1020 of 5179 Old 02-03-2011, 12:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by runnin'
No, it was a poorly done review.

It was never fully tested. The reviewer was obviously biased against it from the start, for whatever reason. He sounds a bit snobbish, perhaps he's used to sealed $1500 subs the way he criticized the Bash amp like Bash is crap or something. The volume knob, the crossover, the 370 watt rating and the paper cone. But he never tested the sub in max extension mode and then criticizes it for not having much bass below 25 Hz! Give me a break.
That's what I was thinking. The reviewer seemed to have something against the sub right from the beginning!
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