The Official HSU VTF-15H Thread - Page 37 - AVS Forum
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post #1081 of 5124 Old 02-04-2011, 05:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chu Gai View Post

Pete, will it be possible for you to present some data illustrating the magnitude of the differences when the sub is upright vs. on its side using all three port scenarios?

That would be nice, even data showing the different modes as pertaining to spl.

I don't understand why Audioholics would only test the subs in one mode, could it have added that much more time? But it is what it is and I am still thankful for what they have brought to the table so far.
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post #1082 of 5124 Old 02-04-2011, 05:10 PM
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If a sub has only one port, with the mic on the ground, you could slide it around and get it equidistant from the driver and port. If a sub has two ports, the only way to do this is to elevate the mic. Why would this not affect the Rythmik also? Granted, the ports are further inboard but still one port would be about double the distance from the ground.

Also, if you compared to a sub with one big port in the center, wouldn't it come out a wash? The port closer to the ground has more than the center port, and the one further away has less.

Using this method with one mic on the side of the sub where the driver resides, how would you test an Epik, or a Submersive?
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post #1083 of 5124 Old 02-04-2011, 05:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chu Gai View Post

Pete, will it be possible for you to present some data illustrating the magnitude of the differences when the sub is upright vs. on its side using all three port scenarios?

Absolutely Chu, we will be more than happy to do this. I would like to do as many measurements as possible: upright vs. on side, triangular port VTF-15 enclosure vs. round port VTF-15H enclosure, 2 port open vs. 1 port open, averaging vs. no averaging, etc. This is going to be a hell of a lot of work, but it's well worth doing. We will have to do it on a Saturday or Sunday on a day that is dry and not windy.

Sincerely,

Pete - Hsu Research
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post #1084 of 5124 Old 02-04-2011, 06:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vitaminbass View Post

Using this method with one mic on the side of the sub where the driver resides, how would you test an Epik, or a Submersive?

The only good way to test these particular subwoofers would be sideways, with microphone equidistant from each driver. Subwoofers with radiating elements on different panels of the enclosure are somewhat difficult to measure to be quite honest.

Sincerely,

Pete - Hsu Research
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post #1085 of 5124 Old 02-04-2011, 06:13 PM
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Pete i received mine today and i posted a review on AH....i also said the same thing on the HSU site.....you can only see it on AH ...i am MORE then pleased with the VTF-15H...in fact i am in heaven!!!!!..i am clouso on AH...what ever people might think...lmao.......i am so happy about that purchase i cannot stop listening to it...haha...
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post #1086 of 5124 Old 02-04-2011, 06:28 PM
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I can't thank you enough Serge, I really appreciate the feedback, and I'm so happy that you like the unit! Thank you for believing in us and in the product!

Sincerely,

Pete - Hsu Research
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post #1087 of 5124 Old 02-04-2011, 06:29 PM
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It's great to hear people happy with their products.

HSU has sold a bunch of these...so regarding the response I think we will see more reviews (including with REW f response curves) coming out of the woodwork soon. Of course, everyone's room gain is a bit different.
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post #1088 of 5124 Old 02-04-2011, 07:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbc View Post

Read the last page here as to why AH chose to put the subs on their sides...

http://www.audioholics.com/education...er-shootout-p3


It seems that the methodology was on fire since sometime ago acording to some > internal issues <

... the scary part is the "real reasons" and the "site support" of the public fight!
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post #1089 of 5124 Old 02-04-2011, 07:55 PM
 
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Originally Posted by ransac View Post

It's infantile posts like this that made me recommend that the AH review discussion should take place in the AH review thread.

youre entitled to your opinion. Enjoy it.
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post #1090 of 5124 Old 02-04-2011, 08:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete_Hsu View Post

I can't thank you enough Serge, I really appreciate the feedback, and I'm so happy that you like the unit! Thank you for believing in us and in the product!

Sincerely,

i beleive in what i hear!!.....and feel!!.........no more blind comments from me never again............
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post #1091 of 5124 Old 02-04-2011, 08:14 PM
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I thought Gene was going to ban you for sure....jk. I'm glad you let your identity be known for everyone to see...

Btw...any pic's yet...?

Quote:
Originally Posted by serge71 View Post

Pete i received mine today and i posted a review on AH....i also said the same thing on the HSU site.....you can only see it on AH ...i am MORE then pleased with the VTF-15H...in fact i am in heaven!!!!!..i am clouso on AH...what ever people might think...lmao.......i am so happy about that purchase i cannot stop listening to it...haha...


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post #1092 of 5124 Old 02-04-2011, 08:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete_Hsu View Post

Absolutely Chu, we will be more than happy to do this. I would like to do as many measurements as possible: upright vs. on side, triangular port VTF-15 enclosure vs. round port VTF-15H enclosure, 2 port open vs. 1 port open, averaging vs. no averaging, etc. This is going to be a hell of a lot of work, but it's well worth doing. We will have to do it on a Saturday or Sunday on a day that is dry and not windy.

Sincerely,

Not that I'm looking to tell you how to run your tests, but when you run the sub on its side with one port, it'd be interesting to see what happens when you plug the lower port and then the upper.

"I've found that when you want to know the truth about someone that someone is probably the last person you should ask." - Gregory House
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post #1093 of 5124 Old 02-04-2011, 08:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete_Hsu View Post

I can't thank you enough Serge, I really appreciate the feedback, and I'm so happy that you like the unit! Thank you for believing in us and in the product!

Sincerely,

Hey Pete, any chance of HSU putting out a similar sub but with an 18" driver with a native tune of 16hz?
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post #1094 of 5124 Old 02-04-2011, 08:50 PM
 
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18 inch? That sub don't need no stinking 18 inch!
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post #1095 of 5124 Old 02-04-2011, 08:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy p View Post

I thought Gene was going to ban you for sure....jk. I'm glad you let your identity be known for everyone to see...

Btw...any pic's yet...?

ppfft billy come on..they alrady knew..i said it before anyway...lol..and why would gene bann me...all my damn posts threads over there are genarating thousands of views everytime!..haha...i know how to advirtise with out even knowing it!!......
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post #1096 of 5124 Old 02-04-2011, 11:20 PM
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Originally Posted by rossandwendy View Post

cacihome, can you expound on the SQ differences you hear between your VTF-15H and the A7S-450 you had? Or if you have done done so in the past refer me to the post? Much appreciated, thanks.

Cheers,
Ross

Sure, Ross.

The A7s450(native form) w/lt1300 is an excellent midbass unit, but really lacks the low end.(actually very powerful in the midbass) It also sounds a little "boxy" sometimes, but overall good...It had in my room, same spot as the VTF-15, flat extension till about 30hz.

The VTF-15 even at its 2 port setting q@.3 has much more deep extension(in my room flat to about 22hz at q.3,2 ports open).

There is simply no comparison... the VTF-15H is better than the A7s(native) in midbass and much better in its deep bass response.

Since I think you have had 2 3.3, think as the VTF-15H as an equal to that, but tighter in the midbass.

Cacimar Hernandez
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post #1097 of 5124 Old 02-05-2011, 12:14 AM
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Originally Posted by OldSlow View Post

I only just got the thing. I haven't had time to fool with it at all. Hoping this weekend to give the port stuff a whirl.
Maybe swing by and give a listen sat afternoon.

Just got mine, so I'll take rain check. Got some more enjoying and fiddling to do. Life is rough when we can sit down and enjoy the fruits of our hard-earned money. Winter has a purpose...

"The bitterness of poor quality lingers long after the sweetness of low price subsides"
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post #1098 of 5124 Old 02-05-2011, 01:49 AM
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I have the vtf shipped all the way to Singapore and I can say there is no hints of regret at all. It is really powerful n tight. My previous sub was a pc12+.

Thumbs up to Pete and the team!
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post #1099 of 5124 Old 02-05-2011, 03:16 AM
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Pete, given you sent the sub to a third party to have measurements taken, actually had Dr. HSU there for those measurements and nothing out of the ordinary was noticed, and those measurements refute what the company has posted, and AH has stated they aren't willing to shell out more dough to have the unit tested again, why not just send a unit back to AH and pay for a retest? AH isn't earning revenue from this test (and apparently HSU allegedly threatened to pull their dollars from the site after the review was posted) and understandably doesn't want to spend more money retesting a sub they feel was tested with the same methodology as the others.

It's somewhat difficult to swallow that the manufacturer, who obviously wants to sell the product, is going to retest their own sub (albeit "publicly", though I doubt many/any will understand the testing procedure or the equipment enough to know if something is not right) to "set things straight". Or, for that matter, to show that somehow putting a sub on its side results in a suck out of the 20hz frequencies of 3-4 dbs due to the triangular ports.

If this was a CHT thread, we know exactly what posters would say about the above.

So instead of leaving room for people to wonder why your tests are differing from third party tests, just have the sub retested independently. Hell, send one to Ricci if he has the time as apparently he has the equipment if AH or the individual who tested the sub in the first place refuses to retest given all the negative comments made about how he did his reviews.

 

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post #1100 of 5124 Old 02-05-2011, 04:09 AM
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Hsu doesn't advertise on Audioholics, so I don't know how they would "pull dollars from the site". Also, Audioholics is earning revenue from this test, I imagine that the VTF-15H review is getting them plenty of page hits, as it is the highly anticipated first professional review of a celebrated new product. Besides that, there is another shootout happening soon with some forum posters here, which the VTF-15H is participating in, and which will supposedly include measurements as well. Anyway, I think it would be a bit awkward for Hsu to send their sub in to Audioholics to be retested, especially when Audioholics insists their testing methodology was correct to begin with. Personally, I see no reason to question either Hsu's or Audioholic's findings or testing methods. It could very well be that, on it's side, the triangular ports would lose a few db that would normally be reflected to a meter distant mic. Either way, Audioholic's measurements are nothing to sneeze at, because even though they are lower than Hsu's own measurements, very few subs in it's price class can touch those numbers anyway.
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post #1101 of 5124 Old 02-05-2011, 04:37 AM
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I think that is just in room measurements.

Also I have not seen one user complain about his 15H, and or lack of bottom end. Paper cone, big and heavy, no fins on the amp,
not a high end subwoofer, even with all those asinine remarks it still is a great value.

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Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

Hsu doesn't advertise on Audioholics, so I don't know how they would "pull dollars from the site". Also, Audioholics is earning revenue from this test, I imagine that the VTF-15H review is getting them plenty of page hits, as it is the highly anticipated first professional review of a celebrated new product. Besides that, there is another shootout happening soon with some forum posters here, which the VTF-15H is participating in, and which will supposedly include measurements as well. Anyway, I think it would be a bit awkward for Hsu to send their sub in to Audioholics to be retested, especially when Audioholics insists their testing methodology was correct to begin with. Personally, I see no reason to question either Hsu's or Audioholic's findings or testing methods. It could very well be that, on it's side, the triangular ports would lose a few db that would normally be reflected to a meter distant mic. Either way, Audioholic's measurements are nothing to sneeze at, because even though they are lower than Hsu's own measurements, very few subs in it's price class can touch those numbers anyway.

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post #1102 of 5124 Old 02-05-2011, 04:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbc View Post

Pete, given you sent the sub to a third party to have measurements taken, actually had Dr. HSU there for those measurements and nothing out of the ordinary was noticed, and those measurements refute what the company has posted, and AH has stated they aren't willing to shell out more dough to have the unit tested again, why not just send a unit back to AH and pay for a retest? AH isn't earning revenue from this test (and apparently HSU allegedly threatened to pull their dollars from the site after the review was posted) and understandably doesn't want to spend more money retesting a sub they feel was tested with the same methodology as the others.

It's somewhat difficult to swallow that the manufacturer, who obviously wants to sell the product, is going to retest their own sub (albeit "publicly", though I doubt many/any will understand the testing procedure or the equipment enough to know if something is not right) to "set things straight". Or, for that matter, to show that somehow putting a sub on its side results in a suck out of the 20hz frequencies of 3-4 dbs due to the triangular ports.

If this was a CHT thread, we know exactly what posters would say about the above.

So instead of leaving room for people to wonder why your tests are differing from third party tests, just have the sub retested independently. Hell, send one to Ricci if he has the time as apparently he has the equipment if AH or the individual who tested the sub in the first place refuses to retest given all the negative comments made about how he did his reviews.

Man, you really are trying to stir the pot. HSU is well respected and just trying to find out why the numbers were a bit lower. You're just trying to make it sound worse by suggesting the "dollar" crap. (you did make that up right?)
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post #1103 of 5124 Old 02-05-2011, 05:20 AM
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Can you point me in the direction of where you read that the Dr was present during testing? Thanks.

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Originally Posted by pbc View Post

Pete, given you sent the sub to a third party to have measurements taken, actually had Dr. HSU there for those measurements and nothing out of the ordinary was noticed, and those measurements refute what the company has posted, and AH has stated they aren't willing to shell out more dough to have the unit tested again, why not just send a unit back to AH and pay for a retest? AH isn't earning revenue from this test (and apparently HSU allegedly threatened to pull their dollars from the site after the review was posted) and understandably doesn't want to spend more money retesting a sub they feel was tested with the same methodology as the others.

It's somewhat difficult to swallow that the manufacturer, who obviously wants to sell the product, is going to retest their own sub (albeit "publicly", though I doubt many/any will understand the testing procedure or the equipment enough to know if something is not right) to "set things straight". Or, for that matter, to show that somehow putting a sub on its side results in a suck out of the 20hz frequencies of 3-4 dbs due to the triangular ports.

If this was a CHT thread, we know exactly what posters would say about the above.

So instead of leaving room for people to wonder why your tests are differing from third party tests, just have the sub retested independently. Hell, send one to Ricci if he has the time as apparently he has the equipment if AH or the individual who tested the sub in the first place refuses to retest given all the negative comments made about how he did his reviews.

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post #1104 of 5124 Old 02-05-2011, 05:28 AM
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Can you point me in the direction of where you read that the Dr was present during testing? Thanks.

Post 608 by Gene on the Audioholics thread here.

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post #1105 of 5124 Old 02-05-2011, 05:38 AM
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Originally Posted by sputter1 View Post

Man, you really are trying to stir the pot. HSU is well respected and just trying to find out why the numbers were a bit lower. You're just trying to make it sound worse by suggesting the "dollar" crap. (you did make that up right?)

No. But I do have a hard time swallowing the fact that HSU's numbers are very different from a third party test, and instead of having it retested by the same third party they're going to do the testing themselves to prove it right or wrong and/or come to a conclusion about what it could be, and somehow that's okay with everyone, on an "AV Science" forum no less.

I actually recommend this sub to anyone looking for affordable duals or a ported sub south of $1,000 that performs beyond its price, and to be frank, I'd rather see that the test done by AH was in fact flawed in some way.

As for making things up, from the AH site, posted by Gene (the guy who owns it) ...

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Originally Posted by gene View Post

Yes and b/c of people not spending the time to actually read the entire review and notice the product positives, it actually gave HSU second thoughts about becoming an advertiser on our site which is ridiculous when you see all of the free press and attention this review generated for them. This thread alone generated over 3200 views in one day!

I am a big fan of HSU products and hope to continue covering their stuff in the future.


 

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post #1106 of 5124 Old 02-05-2011, 05:52 AM
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second thoughts about advertising does not mean they currently are. Put yourself in their shoes. I see HSU as a company with a stong technical orientation. When the sub is lower priced than others, then one can not expect all aspects of the unit to be equal or better to the more expensive units. But when the test and/or numbers aren't appearing proper, naturally they will have an objection to it.
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post #1107 of 5124 Old 02-05-2011, 06:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vitaminbass View Post

I see HSU as a company with a stong technical orientation. When the sub is lower priced than others, then one can not expect all aspects of the unit to be equal or better to the more expensive units. But when the test and/or numbers aren't appearing proper, naturally they will have an objection to it.

Agreed wholeheartedly.

 

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post #1108 of 5124 Old 02-05-2011, 06:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hometheatergeek View Post

Post 608 by Gene on the Audioholics thread here.

Thank you.
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post #1109 of 5124 Old 02-05-2011, 06:21 AM
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this testing business reminds me a lot of dynomometer testing on engines. This is a big deal for the aftermarket/hop-up industry because they want bragging rights that they got "X" horsepower gain or had "X" horsepower to the wheels. But there are many, many variables and the only way to really get intelligent numbers is use the same dyno on the same day, same atmospheric conditions, same heat soak. And even with that, there are a lot of tiny details that can skew the results...by accident or something the technician did on purpose. A subtle difference not even noticeable to an observer could move the graph several horsepower. Many parallelisms to the audio world. Heat soak=heat in the coil, power compression etc. etc.
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post #1110 of 5124 Old 02-05-2011, 06:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vitaminbass View Post

second thoughts about advertising does not mean they currently are. Put yourself in their shoes. I see hsu as a company with a stong technical orientation. When the sub is lower priced than others, then one can not expect all aspects of the unit to be equal or better to the more expensive units. But when the test and/or numbers aren't appearing proper, naturally they will have an objection to it.

+1
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