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post #1171 of 5124 Old 02-07-2011, 04:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VTF-15H View Post

Well, that's really easy to say. I mean, that is not why we're here, right? This is all about overkill right? This is about having an overpowered sub that hits excruciatingly low and slams in your chest, right?

So when an industry expert writes that your subs amp is "underpowered" and is good for a "shoestring budget", it definitely raises concerns.

What is the issue with the dip between 20 and 63hzs? Is this noticeable when watching movies?

Does this sub not go to 20hz and peak at 122db as advertised?

Look, there's an old saying that one man's ceiling is another man's floor. Shoestrings come in all prices and one need but go to a designer shoe salon to get a handle on just how much those shoe strings are! It's a relative term for if the VTF is for shoestring budgets, then what do we call someone who buys a $100 sub? What the VTF will do in your room depends on the characteristics of your room, where you place it, and other factors. Give some thought to performing measurements in your own room if you haven't done so already.

"I've found that when you want to know the truth about someone that someone is probably the last person you should ask." - Gregory House
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post #1172 of 5124 Old 02-07-2011, 04:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VTF-15H View Post

Well, that's really easy to say. I mean, that is not why we're here, right? This is all about overkill right? This is about having an overpowered sub that hits excruciatingly low and slams in your chest, right?

So when an industry expert writes that your subs amp is "underpowered" and is good for a "shoestring budget", it definitely raises concerns.

What is the issue with the dip between 20 and 63hzs? Is this noticeable when watching movies?

Does this sub not go to 20hz and peak at 122db as advertised?

Well, you are very right when you said it is "easy to say". Very right. Personally, I have my reserves with this reviewer. I still scratching my head > about this <</a>.

Then, there in AH, someone saids that HSU step back from advertising after the results, and that info was refused here by HSU.

One word....credibility.


----
And to be very clear (sorry for my lack of originality)....
I like AH a lot. But like my father saids, "Sometimes you need to pick some info with tweezers." (sorry, another literal translation)
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post #1173 of 5124 Old 02-07-2011, 04:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VTF-15H View Post

Well, that's really easy to say. I mean, that is not why we're here, right? This is all about overkill right? This is about having an overpowered sub that hits excruciatingly low and slams in your chest, right?

So when an industry expert writes that your subs amp is "underpowered" and is good for a "shoestring budget", it definitely raises concerns.

What is the issue with the dip between 20 and 63hzs? Is this noticeable when watching movies?

Does this sub not go to 20hz and peak at 122db as advertised?

Yes, it does go to 20 hz (at 110 db) and it will hit 122 db (not at 20 hz though), Audioholics testing bears this out. And that's in its least extended mode, in other modes it should be a bit stronger at 20 hz. Problem is with the review, they never tested it in other modes. In room, and at the 16 hz tuning point, this thing will be a monster. What "dip" are you talking about between 20 and 63 hz?
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post #1174 of 5124 Old 02-07-2011, 05:28 PM
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Originally Posted by VTF-15H View Post

It's mainly the fact yay this guy gave a review of a product I bought that I thought was pretty kick ass, and used words like "shoe string budget", etc., when I drf don't have a shoestring budget but thought I was getting a product that matched te specs, which is what I expect at ANY price, especially from a reputable company.

Welcome to AVS forum. If you haven't figured it out yet, there are a fair number of members here that have "considerable" disposable income to spend on home theater and audio equipment. If you are scratching your head a bit that a $1000+ (shipped) sub is "budget" then I'm right there with you. If I told most of my friends, family, co-workers etc. I spent $1000 on a speaker that just reproduces the lower two octaves of sound (compared to most speakers covering 9+) they would either ask "why" or think the money would be better put to use elsewhere. But then, many folks don't appreciate good sound anyway.

A few years back I bought a 12" Yamaha sub for $99 on sale at Best Buy. Now THAT was a "budget" sub...to me anyway. For use with my computer, it worked great...was actually overkill output-wise.

You could spend $4000 on a sub if you wanted. To the guy that spends that much on a single subwoofer, something like a Submersive or Captivator is probably a "budget" sub.

As we know, it's all about priorities and we all come from different frame of reference. I truly enjoy the diverse group here.
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post #1175 of 5124 Old 02-07-2011, 05:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VTF-15H View Post

Well, that's really easy to say. I mean, that is not why we're here, right? This is all about overkill right? This is about having an overpowered sub that hits excruciatingly low and slams in your chest, right?

So when an industry expert writes that your subs amp is "underpowered" and is good for a "shoestring budget", it definitely raises concerns.

What is the issue with the dip between 20 and 63hzs? Is this noticeable when watching movies?

Does this sub not go to 20hz and peak at 122db as advertised?


Read post #1168 again dude!
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post #1176 of 5124 Old 02-07-2011, 07:04 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Pete_Hsu View Post

Note that we have already sent out VTF-15H to several 3rd party magazine reviewers (reviews not completed yet), and perhaps they will do some measurements (although who knows what type of measurements they may do). We have also posted on this forum regarding exactly what equipment we use and what measurement techniques we use, so if anyone wants to try to replicate that, then that's great. But we still want to do more extensive measurements on our own too, to better our understanding of different measurement techniques and how that relates to different subwoofer designs.

Sincerely,

That's good news. I really am unsatisfied with the review at AH, the reviewer was unable to keep his biases out(against BASH amps, paper cones, etc) and perhaps his perspective was off due to the fact that he also reviewed the SVS sub which is in a higher price category at 500 more.

I'd like to see the sub tested in ALL configurations, not just one. At this point, the sub shoot out thread done in a basement is more helpful than the AH shoot out.
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post #1177 of 5124 Old 02-07-2011, 07:14 PM
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W. T. F.:

"Because of the relatively small amount of amplifier output, I believe it would be best applied with music or home theater, limited, as it was during the test to having both ports open. Performance down to 20 Hz, even for a large system, is going to require a bit more horsepower than this amp is capable of. "

-- Audioholics Review, VTF-15H

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/s...ng-impressions
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post #1178 of 5124 Old 02-07-2011, 07:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VTF-15H View Post

W. T. F.:

"Because of the relatively small amount of amplifier output, I believe it would be best applied with music or home theater, limited, as it was during the test to having both ports open. Performance down to 20 Hz, even for a large system, is going to require a bit more horsepower than this amp is capable of. "

-- Audioholics Review, VTF-15H

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/s...ng-impressions

Was he basing that on listening impressions, or just reading the specs on the amp? If he was basing it on reading the amp specs that is truly sad. Anyone vaguely familiar with the technical side of audio knows that advertised specs are merely a starting point towards understanding the true capability of a system...plus are we just ignoring the efficiency of the driver (good or bad)?
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post #1179 of 5124 Old 02-07-2011, 08:32 PM
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Another aspect of this is that as internet buyers, since we can't go down to the local retailer to demo these products, we rely on online reviews like this to provide neutral data and unbiased opinions to steer us towards what products to buy.

At the same time, HSU relies on these sites that perform reviews to remain neutral and objective. In fact HSU hand-delivered the VTF-15H to the review for testing.

Using words like "underpowered", "doesn't have the horsepower", "shoestring budget", are all statements that seem to go out of the way to describe the product in a negative manner, whereas one would think more neutral terms/phrases could have been used during the writing process to get the point across. It definitely leaves the reader with the impression that the HSU was sub-par.

Add onto that the fact that the reviewer and the manufacturer are now publicly disagreeing on the testing methods and results (many of which are already not fully understood by the average reader), it naturally creates confusion and a lack of confidence in the products AND the review.

Add onto that the fact that the reviewer has since gone back and edited the article multiple times, both to clarify the meaning and validate the context of the findings, it seems that the article should probably be retracted until further, more accurate and mutually acceptable testing can be performed.
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post #1180 of 5124 Old 02-07-2011, 09:26 PM
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The test method was fully published prior to any testing. Everyone knows this, but some refuse to accept it. If HSU didn't like the methodology, they should not have participated. If you want reviewers to only use adjectives that are acceptable to you, then what's the point of using third party reviewers? If glowing reviews are the only results people will accept, then why don't we just collaborate on one review that's acceptable to everyone, plug in the name of the product-of-the-day and then publish that.

Randy
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post #1181 of 5124 Old 02-07-2011, 11:12 PM
 
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The test methods aren't really the issue. It's that the reviewer was not objective in his analysis of the sub. He thinks the Bash brand is crap. He thinks pressed paper pulp woofers are inferior. He went on and on stating his opinions on these two issues without ANY data to support his biases.

Then he goes into the testing with those biases and finds that 109db at 20hz is not decent! He is led by his biases, and that is unprofessional. Do the measurements and let the numbers tell the story, not your preconceived ideas about 350 watts. And then test the sub in max extension configuration, not just one setting. How can you say it has limited theater usage when you haven't even tested the damn thing fully! When you look at it's numbers and the fact it cost several hundred less than the others, it's not too shabby. When you add in the fact the sub will go lower in extension mode and sitting upright, it may be pretty good, but we'll never know reading that review.

The sub shoot out on this forum in the basement of those brothers gives us a much better idea of how this sub compares than the AH review, and they don't even pick a winner!
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post #1182 of 5124 Old 02-08-2011, 04:51 AM
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Where does he say paper cones are inferior (or as other users here have posted, "crap")?

Quote:


The cone is paper, and the edge a relatively large diameter half roll foam surround, pretty standard stuff for inexpensive loudspeakers. Frankly, for a subwoofer, as long as the cone won't break from the stress of forces, anything commonly used if made of a sufficient thickness (which for different materials means a different mass of course) is going to be pistonic, a term meaning it will act like an air pump, and simply push and pull the air alternately setting up those low frequency waves we enjoy so much. Even paper is hard enough to be acting like a simple piston (what you want) at subwoofer frequencies. This of course raises the question, why use aluminum or polypropylene or something exotic? Well, if the aluminum is coupled to the voice coil by a thermally conductive bobbin, that will add lots of heat sinking. Paper just burns if you get it too hot. Polypropylene will either melt, or come unglued. Of course, paper lacks sex appeal, and sometimes that is what marketing asks for. If it is new, it must be better right? The foam surround is plenty wide enough to not mechanically limit the travel of the woofer, and given the relatively high cutoff in this box, a reasonably large one occupying more than 5 cubic feet, unless you start putting 1400 watts of power in at 20 Hz with both ports open, I doubt this woofer will strain. Listening tests (read further) confirm.

Generally paper cones are less expensive than most other material (with some exceptions, e.g., see SEAS). However, most know for low frequency response in particular, cone material doesn't sound any different from any other material. So as long as the driver has the ability to handle the amount of power you're throwing at it, paper is a good compromise to keep costs down.

Where does he say that BASH is "crap"?

Quote:


Actually, I was quite surprised to find the amp used with the Hsu was a BASH design. I will admit my bias against the company, yet I found it had the ability to drive the Hsu sub to considerable volume levels in a very large room. My experience in the past with BASH amps, has been less than encouraging, but I have no negative comments to make about the finesse and skill which was used to adjust the maximum output of this amp so that there were no hard clipping or compression artifacts audible enough to make me complain.
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I was not expecting too much from the BASH amplifier, but despite that, I found it performed well, and more importantly I found Hsu's approach to his system design with limited power preferable to a GO DOWN TO 20 Hz at all costs approach, and to hell with the sensitivity. The VTF-15H was clearly a well compromised effort based on maximum performance for the dollar.

He does mention the "potentiometer action felt rather soft or loose". Which is one of the things BASH gets dinged for regularly (i.e., QC). The first BASH amp on my PB13 was faulty, the second one had a sticky frequency/x-over knob, the third one was fine. BASH amps cost less for a reason. However, for the most part they are a great compromise when looking to cut costs and used by a large number of vendors. Most "amp" purists do not like them at all, and it is evident the reviewer had a bias against them but seemed to not be able to complain about its performance (meaning it was a well designed sub).

One area he does touch on with the amp is the low pass ...

Quote:


My biggest criticism of the amplifier was the fact that we are only given a very limited range of Low Pass frequencies to use. (30 - 90 Hz)

I agree, it is odd that it was only 30 to 90hz (I've never seen one so small). Though in reality, who cares given most of us disable it and use the bass management from our receivers (as the reviewer indicates), and this is nitpicking especially since the sub gives the user the ability to disable it (I think?). Some subs don't even bother with this (E.g., SVS PB10, or Funky Waves new plate amp). Why? Cost savings.

 

My DIY Subs ... http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1233892

Quote:

J Dunlavy:.. if you stop to think about it, no loudspeaker can sound more accurate than it measures.

 

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post #1183 of 5124 Old 02-08-2011, 06:00 AM
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Originally Posted by runnin' View Post

That's good news. I really am unsatisfied with the review at AH.....

Never would have guessed that.
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post #1184 of 5124 Old 02-08-2011, 07:18 AM
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Originally Posted by ransac View Post

The test method was fully published prior to any testing. Everyone knows this, but some refuse to accept it. If HSU didn't like the methodology, they should not have participated. If you want reviewers to only use adjectives that are acceptable to you, then what's the point of using third party reviewers? If glowing reviews are the only results people will accept, then why don't we just collaborate on one review that's acceptable to everyone, plug in the name of the product-of-the-day and then publish that.

I think HSU noted that the fact that (1) the sub was laid on its side during testing, and (2) only one configuration was used (both ports open), both of which diminished output. It is my understanding that HSU was not aware of these circumstances prior to the review.

Also, in terms of demanding a glowing review -- I don't think that is the issue at all -- I think it's is more of an issue of the reviewer making repeated condescending and inflammatory remarks about how the sub was "underpowered", "compromised", and would be good on a "shoestring budget", and how HSU could improve the sub by making a "hot rod version", which is not how owners of the VTF-15H want to think of their subwoofer.

Also, there are other vague, "put downs" that aren't related to the products specifications, performance, or appearance. In the following example, the reviewer comments on the naming of one of HSU's finishes, and makes another derogatory statement:

"Visual
The Hsu sub as submitted had a smooth black finish, neither attracting attention nor warranting special notice. There were no issues to be seen with the cabinet finish, and I found the dual V shaped ports at the bottom of the cabinet both sound from an engineering standpoint, as well as visually appealing. If you have the room for it, there is not too much chance it is going to clash with any of your furniture or draw much attention to itself. What I liked most was that it's styling of the ports and grilles was both unique and attractive. During his visit to my laboratory, I was informed by Dr Hsu, that the "Rosewood" would be available at a $999 price point. For some reason, the $999 model is called "Rosenut" on the website. (It looks like Rosewood!) Likely for the same reason that Champagne is called sparkling wine when the grapes are grown in California instead of the Champagne region of France, but I should leave that explanation to Dr. Hsu. "


With comments like this, the it is easy to see where HSU and VTF-15H owners have taken issue with this review.
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post #1185 of 5124 Old 02-08-2011, 07:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VTF-15H View Post


"Visual
The Hsu sub as submitted had a smooth black finish, neither attracting attention nor warranting special notice. There were no issues to be seen with the cabinet finish, and I found the dual V shaped ports at the bottom of the cabinet both sound from an engineering standpoint, as well as visually appealing. If you have the room for it, there is not too much chance it is going to clash with any of your furniture or draw much attention to itself. What I liked most was that it's styling of the ports and grilles was both unique and attractive. During his visit to my laboratory, I was informed by Dr Hsu, that the "Rosewood" would be available at a $999 price point. For some reason, the $999 model is called "Rosenut" on the website. (It looks like Rosewood!) Likely for the same reason that Champagne is called sparkling wine when the grapes are grown in California instead of the Champagne region of France, but I should leave that explanation to Dr. Hsu. "


With comments like this, the it is easy to see where HSU and VTF-15H owners have taken issue with this review.

I fail to see how the bolded statement is derogatory... This is how I read the sentence...there was a discrepancy between how Dr. Hsu and the website described a certain veneer. The reviewer then offered an brief explanation for this possible discrepancy (analogous to why sparkling wine can't be called champagne if produced outside of Champagne region of France), but then stated perhaps Dr. Hsu could probably offer a better and more accurate explanation.

Many people seem to be ignoring the positive comments from the review:
"There were no issues to be seen with the cabinet finish, and I found the dual V shaped ports at the bottom of the cabinet both sound from an engineering standpoint, as well as visually appealing. If you have the room for it, there is not too much chance it is going to clash with any of your furniture or draw much attention to itself. What I liked most was that it's styling of the ports and grilles was both unique and attractive."

FWIW - I think the VTF-15H is one helluva sub...

Life is good.
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post #1186 of 5124 Old 02-08-2011, 07:45 AM
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quick search on google:

"While the difference between champagne and sparkling wine might seem petty, there are a few key elements which distinguish champagne from other sparkling wines. The first is the method used to create carbonation in the bottle. Champagne is made using the traditional method, and this has a profound effect on the composition of the wine. If a wine labeled as champagne is made with another technique, it may not be as good, and it can be disappointing to a consumer who is expecting true champagne."
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post #1187 of 5124 Old 02-08-2011, 07:49 AM
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But wood that is not rosewood is, uh, not rosewood, so they call it something else. You could buy a $3,000 Paradigm sub and get "rosenut," too. Unless you want to be miserable, or to own nothing until you can afford the most unassailable perfect subs in the world, you need a little thicker skin.
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post #1188 of 5124 Old 02-08-2011, 07:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VTF-15H View Post


I think HSU noted that the fact that (1) the sub was laid on its side during testing, and (2) only one configuration was used (both ports open), both of which diminished output. It is my understanding that HSU was not aware of these circumstances prior to the review.

Also, in terms of demanding a glowing review -- I don't think that is the issue at all -- I think it's is more of an issue of the reviewer making repeated condescending and inflammatory remarks about how the sub was "underpowered", "compromised", and would be good on a "shoestring budget", and how HSU could improve the sub by making a "hot rod version", which is not how owners of the VTF-15H want to think of their subwoofer.

Also, there are other vague, "put downs" that aren't related to the products specifications, performance, or appearance. In the following example, the reviewer comments on the naming of one of HSU's finishes, and makes another derogatory statement:

"Visual
The Hsu sub as submitted had a smooth black finish, neither attracting attention nor warranting special notice. There were no issues to be seen with the cabinet finish, and I found the dual V shaped ports at the bottom of the cabinet both sound from an engineering standpoint, as well as visually appealing. If you have the room for it, there is not too much chance it is going to clash with any of your furniture or draw much attention to itself. What I liked most was that it's styling of the ports and grilles was both unique and attractive. During his visit to my laboratory, I was informed by Dr Hsu, that the "Rosewood" would be available at a $999 price point. For some reason, the $999 model is called "Rosenut" on the website. (It looks like Rosewood!) Likely for the same reason that Champagne is called sparkling wine when the grapes are grown in California instead of the Champagne region of France, but I should leave that explanation to Dr. Hsu. "

With comments like this, the it is easy to see where HSU and VTF-15H owners have taken issue with this review.

WHAT? You got your feelings hurt because the reviewer said he thinks the Rosenut looks like Rosewood? His analogy to champagne is like Shakespeare's line 'What's in a name? That which we call a rose, by any other name would smell as sweet'. You also believe his comments were derogatory and condescending. You are one PC dude. Nobody should ever say anything the confronts your sensibilities. Boo Hoo. The reviewer gave objective and subjective information. That's what they do. And, he explained away just about every criticism or stated bias with the way HSU designed and deployed the sub.

If HSU didn't know what the testing methods were to be used, that's their fault. But I believe they were fully aware of them and had no reservations. I am still waiting for someone to address how putting the sub on it's side diminished output. But read THIS before you quote Pete's assertion that the upper port wasn't contributing due to its distance from the mic.

Edit: Actually, the reviewer was giving a compliment when he said the HSU 'Rosenut' finish looked like Rosewood. Rosenut is just a made up representation of Rosewood due to the scarcity of true Rosewood. Rosenut is not a real wood. So the reviewer was saying the HSU Rosenut faux finish looks more like the real thing.

Randy
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post #1189 of 5124 Old 02-08-2011, 07:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VTF-15H View Post

quick search on google:

"While the difference between champagne and sparkling wine might seem petty, there are a few key elements which distinguish champagne from other sparkling wines. The first is the method used to create carbonation in the bottle. Champagne is made using the traditional method, and this has a profound effect on the composition of the wine. If a wine labeled as “champagne” is made with another technique, it may not be as good, and it can be disappointing to a consumer who is expecting true champagne."

Not that Wikipedia is always accurate, but the first couple of paragraphs does a good job explaining why sparkling wine outside the Champagne region of France is usually not called champagne.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Champagne_%28wine%29

Way OT... Sorry.

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post #1190 of 5124 Old 02-08-2011, 07:57 AM
 
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He also puts two criticisms of the Bash amp in the "Cons" bullet list at the start of the review. I just noticed that another part of his criticism has been edited out, where he cast doubt on the amp's ability to peak at 1400 watts. Also edited out earlier is the comment that the sub has little below 25Hz output. But he criticizes the Bash name. He criticizes the speaker terminals, volume knob, crossover, Q knob and finless design, all part of the amp design. He doesn't like the Bash amp.

But why dispute Hsu Research for calling the one color option "Rosenut", saying it's actually Rosewood? Does he argue with car companies too about what they've named a shade of red or blue too? It wouldn't surprise me, but it's silly. At any rate, my Paradigm speakers are the same shade, and they are called Rosenut. The point is that it's simply marketing, and to dispute a marketing term is just more bias.

Like I said, the reviewer was obviously biased against Bash and the paper woofer and allowed this to color his review. I wait for other reviews of a more professional nature, containing facts, not nitpicks that the color name is wrong.
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post #1191 of 5124 Old 02-08-2011, 09:56 AM
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This is another comment that chapped alot of people's a$$es, considering 99% of the people that bought the sub bought it for home theater usage:

"This box (in my opinion) is best for music, and while it will work for home theater, if you absolutely have to get that 20 Hz tone in your living room, be prepared to spend more $$ and get a system with a bigger amplifier"

If you just bought the sub for home theater, like I did, this really sucks to hear a professional review make a statement like this.
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post #1192 of 5124 Old 02-08-2011, 09:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhan1000 View Post

Not that Wikipedia is always accurate, but the first couple of paragraphs does a good job explaining why sparkling wine outside the Champagne region of France is usually not called champagne.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Champagne_%28wine%29

Way OT... Sorry.

Right, well, typically, Chapagne is the expensive stuff, and sparkling wine is the cheap stuff, which seems to correlate with the cheap/budget vs. real deal/high end theme he has going on throughout the review of the VTF-15H.
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post #1193 of 5124 Old 02-08-2011, 10:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VTF-15H View Post

This is another comment that chapped alot of people's a$$es, considering 99% of the people that bought the sub bought it for home theater usage:

"This box (in my opinion) is best for music, and while it will work for home theater, if you absolutely have to get that 20 Hz tone in your living room, be prepared to spend more $$ and get a system with a bigger amplifier"

If you just bought the sub for home theater, like I did, this really sucks to hear a professional review make a statement like this.

You are playing with his words. Why did you exclude the rest of the statement?

"or do as Dr Hsu recommends and place the box in the room corner if at all possible."

Where's yours placed?

Randy
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post #1194 of 5124 Old 02-08-2011, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by ransac View Post

You are playing with his words. Why did you exclude the rest of the statement?

"or do as Dr Hsu recommends and place the box in the room corner if at all possible."

Where's yours placed?

Wouldn't you assume that 99% of people place the sub in the corner of the room. Doesn't that go without saying? Why didn't he say SVS was the best, unless you put it in the middle of the room???
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post #1195 of 5124 Old 02-08-2011, 10:28 AM
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It's bizarre to me that this reviewer would fail to recommend this sub for its designed usage (home theater), based on a placement that 99% of customers aren't going to do (not the corner) and goes against recommended placement in the product owner's manual:

Rules of thumb for placement
• Avoid the center of the room: In general, avoid placing the subwoofer half way between the front and back walls. This is where you get a strong null from your room’s standing waves. You should also avoid sitting in that area. No matter how powerful the subwoofer is, there will not be much bass around the center of the room.
• Use corner placement: Subwoofers usually sound best tucked in a corner. A good corner is far from wall divisions and has at least 6 feet of wall to either side. If you have more than one good corner, use the one farthest away from large room openings or the one closest to the listener. Keep the subwoofer within 1 foot of the wall.
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post #1196 of 5124 Old 02-08-2011, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VTF-15H View Post

Wouldn't you assume that 99% of people place the sub in the corner of the room.

No. You place it in the corner when you need multiple boundary reinforcement. His conclusion for this sub is you do need corner placement to raise the low end response.
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Originally Posted by VTF-15H View Post

Doesn't that go without saying?

No. Not if you actually try to optimize placement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VTF-15H View Post

Why didn't he say SVS was the best, unless you put it in the middle of the room???

Because it doesn't need reinforcement to dig deep with authority.

Randy
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post #1197 of 5124 Old 02-08-2011, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by ransac View Post

No. You place it in the corner when you need multiple boundary reinforcement. His conclusion for this sub is you do need corner placement to raise the low end response.

No. Not if you actually try to optimize placement.


Because it doesn't need reinforcement to dig deep with authority.

So what your saying is, he does NOT recommend this sub in a home theater application where it is on its side in a parking lot, but may recommend it if placed in the corner of a home theater room?

If so he should have stated that, not that he flatly does not recommend it for home theater.

Also, since there are multiple port configurations, that creates another scenario. So using this logic, if these subs were each tested in their IDEAL configurations for maximum SPL, the HSU may have produced the highest output at 20hz!!
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post #1198 of 5124 Old 02-08-2011, 10:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VTF-15H View Post

It's bizarre to me that this reviewer would fail to recommend this sub for its designed usage (home theater), based on a placement that 99% of customers aren't going to do (not the corner) and goes against recommended placement in the product owner's manual:

Rules of thumb for placement
• Avoid the center of the room: In general, avoid placing the subwoofer half way between the front and back walls. This is where you get a strong null from your room’s standing waves. You should also avoid sitting in that area. No matter how powerful the subwoofer is, there will not be much bass around the center of the room.
• Use corner placement: Subwoofers usually sound best tucked in a corner. A good corner is far from wall divisions and has at least 6 feet of wall to either side. If you have more than one good corner, use the one farthest away from large room openings or the one closest to the listener. Keep the subwoofer within 1 foot of the wall.

Why do you think he should be bound to the owner's manual recommendations? This is a generic statement and not specific to this one sub. And there are many who would disagree with the corner placement recommendation.

And again, he does not say he recommends you not get this sub for HT. You are misinterpreting his comments or you are editorializing to get attention or to sooth your hurt feelings. Tissue?

Randy
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post #1199 of 5124 Old 02-08-2011, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by VTF-15H View Post

So what your saying is, he does NOT recommend this sub in a home theater application where it is on its side in a parking lot, but may recommend it if placed in the corner of a home theater room?

If so he should have stated that, not that he flatly does not recommend it for home theater.

Now you're just being ludicrous.

Randy
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post #1200 of 5124 Old 02-08-2011, 10:41 AM
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= Fail
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