The Official HSU VTF-15H Thread - Page 86 - AVS Forum
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post #2551 of 5124 Old 04-05-2012, 08:16 PM
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Originally Posted by cdub563 View Post


Jack- any chance I'm just missing the sub in my PEQ, it's NOT in mine My firmware is version 1.14 and thr most current on Yamah site is V2.05 but I hear it's all the way up to 2.11 i don't know if V2.05 would make any difference? Where are you located in AZ? I'm in Surprise. I'd love to hear how a properly set up system sounds.

I'm in Tucson and using 1.61 I believe, but can't verify until this weekend (tore it all down to add new speakers) . I missed what receiver you use btw.
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post #2552 of 5124 Old 04-05-2012, 08:42 PM
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Originally Posted by JackOften View Post

I'm in Tucson and using 1.61 I believe, but can't verify until this weekend (tore it all down to add new speakers) . I missed what receiver you use btw.

I have the yamaha RX-V667
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post #2553 of 5124 Old 04-05-2012, 08:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Venomous View Post

The 3010 is a super powerhouse receiver except for room correction. It's musical and has tons of options. However, it sucks with room correction and EQing subs.

You can dial it in using a calibrated spl meter and test tones. It takes a bit of time. Or you can go the direction of REW and a laptop to measure the sub(s) and calibrate it that way.

I've been happy calibrating each position using an spl meter. In my findings, my results have been much better then letting ypao do it. You can also unplug the sub, run ypao, then calibrate the sub by itself.

If I could sell my 3010 for a fair price, it would immediately be replaced by a Denon 4311ci because of audyssey and having the ability to upgrade it to pro. As it stands right now, I'm happy with my manual calibration. I'll look at replacing it next year or whenever the next level of audyssey hits in the Denon top tier line. I love Yamaha but charging the same price as a 4311 and using ypao instead of audyssey irks me. My opinion would be different if Yamaha would strive to update ypao on a constant basis and fix its short comings.

You hit the nail on the head. People who rave about YPAO either are pure music lovers who don't hit the subwoofer hard (if they even have one) or don't have decent subs to know what they are missing. My RX-3000's PEQ is it's sole redeeming value, or else I would have craigslisted it a while back and saved for a 4311.
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post #2554 of 5124 Old 04-05-2012, 09:01 PM
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Originally Posted by cdub563 View Post

I have the yamaha RX-V667

I don't believe the 667 calibrates the subwoofer, but I could be wrong (impossible to find reliable information on YPAO and different receivers versions). I use a RX-a3000 which has Parametric EQ. I don't believe the 667 has it, so modifying the subwoofer's frequency response will need to be done off-board.

I mentioned this to someone in a private message. You gotta get your hands on a SPL meter to see the whole picture and know what your frequency response curve really looks like. Radio Shack's digital SPL is fairly inexpensive and does a reasonable job.

If you really want to road trip it to Tucson, let me know. The I-10 is a horrible drive. haha.
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post #2555 of 5124 Old 04-05-2012, 09:11 PM
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Originally Posted by fcastle View Post

I think you are onto something there, sir!

So I am off for the next four days and am going to do my best to dial in the V15h. I also just got an Onkyo 809 (replacing an Onkyo NR901) so I will be setting that up as well. In addition, because of the capabilities of the 809, I will also be adding front heights (cannot do rear surround as you will see).

Dr. Hsu - can you give me some initial thoughts/suggestions about my layout and positioning of the V15? I have attached a pic of my room and I apologize for its lameness.

I will make a couple notes about it. First, the TV is actually on a long Ikea console so, although I could put the sub in either of the front corners, that would cause me to permanently have my Aperion VGTs out in the room which my wife has nixed. I usually move the speakers out during movies and then move them back again for regular TV viewing.

The open kitchen is the same distance front to back (like the TV to couch distance), but is about 17 feet long. 8' ceilings all around. There is a large island in the middle of the kitchen.

As a result of the above, the only two spots for the sub are on either side of the couch unless I am missing something.

Does it matter which way the sub is "pointing" (back toward the fireplace wall or window wall? What settings should I start with prior to the calibration process? I do have an RS SPL and plan on setting up and using REW.

Thanks for any suggestions from the group as well!

I think that is a nice drawing! Your indicated location ( to the right of the sofa) should be great. Sit right next to the sub if you want a massage! Can you face the woofer at the couch? If not, facing it toward the front wall is also fine.
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post #2556 of 5124 Old 04-05-2012, 09:26 PM
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Originally Posted by cdub563 View Post


Dr HSU-I just got the meter yesterday and have yet to test and get readings yet. Should I just measure results at 2Meters and ground plane center of subs? Listening postion or both that you're referring to? I'll probably do both to see what I'm actually getting out of the subs 2M at first then listening position for comparision.

I hate to turn this into a YPAO tutorial but maybe this will be good for HSU when they troubleshoot and ask the customer "What amp brand and are you running YPAO"?

Thanks for the help and all the knowledge, my head is spinning haha! I'll get there, hopefully just sooner then later

If you can do outdoor measurements, do the 1m ground plane. That is how we measure our subs, so your results will tell us if your 15H is working properly. Measure the 15H with one port open, EQ1, Q=0.7, and two ports open, EQ2, Q=0.7.

I also like to see the in-room responses with the mic at ear level at your listening position, with the two subs at your current location, and with the 15H between the two sofas. Try two ports open, EQ2, Q=0.3 for in-room (if you feel energetic, do it for 1 port open,EQ1, Q=0.7 as well).
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post #2557 of 5124 Old 04-05-2012, 11:58 PM
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Originally Posted by JackOften View Post

I don't believe the 667 calibrates the subwoofer, but I could be wrong (impossible to find reliable information on YPAO and different receivers versions). I use a RX-a3000 which has Parametric EQ. I don't believe the 667 has it, so modifying the subwoofer's frequency response will need to be done off-board.

I mentioned this to someone in a private message. You gotta get your hands on a SPL meter to see the whole picture and know what your frequency response curve really looks like. Radio Shack's digital SPL is fairly inexpensive and does a reasonable job.

If you really want to road trip it to Tucson, let me know. The I-10 is a horrible drive. haha.

Well crap, looks like a reciever with Audessy may be my next purchase, this
V667 was just bought last year too. I have an SPL meter now and will see what I come up with. Thank you for the offer, yeah that drive sucks! I hate the I-10 to tucson, I think I'd rather drive to Saffrod, then to Tucson from there LOL!

Quote:
Originally Posted by dr_hsu View Post

If you can do outdoor measurements, do the 1m ground plane. That is how we measure our subs, so your results will tell us if your 15H is working properly. Measure the 15H with one port open, EQ1, Q=0.7, and two ports open, EQ2, Q=0.7.

I also like to see the in-room responses with the mic at ear level at your listening position, with the two subs at your current location, and with the 15H between the two sofas. Try two ports open, EQ2, Q=0.3 for in-room (if you feel energetic, do it for 1 port open,EQ1, Q=0.7 as well).

I think my neighbors may kill me doing it outside, but maybe I'll consider it during the week when hopefully most are gone to work. Sounds good, I'll try to get a crash course on all this and see what happens. Thanks again!
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post #2558 of 5124 Old 04-06-2012, 04:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Venomous View Post

The 3010 is a super powerhouse receiver except for room correction. It's musical and has tons of options. However, it sucks with room correction and EQing subs.

You can dial it in using a calibrated spl meter and test tones. It takes a bit of time. Or you can go the direction of REW and a laptop to measure the sub(s) and calibrate it that way.

I've been happy calibrating each position using an spl meter. In my findings, my results have been much better then letting ypao do it. You can also unplug the sub, run ypao, then calibrate the sub by itself.

If I could sell my 3010 for a fair price, it would immediately be replaced by a Denon 4311ci because of audyssey and having the ability to upgrade it to pro. As it stands right now, I'm happy with my manual calibration. I'll look at replacing it next year or whenever the next level of audyssey hits in the Denon top tier line. I love Yamaha but charging the same price as a 4311 and using ypao instead of audyssey irks me. My opinion would be different if Yamaha would strive to update ypao on a constant basis and fix its short comings.

When I calibrate with a meter, I wear hearing protection. Reference level for calibration is really 85db but can damage hearing. So most of the avr's out there do the testing at 75db. Make sure you purchase a popular spl meter that has a calibration database such as the radio shack. All of the information can be found here on AVS with a quick search. Below I'll supply you a link on how to calibrate your speakers manually as a guide.

http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=38765

That is true. My Anthem receiver is the exception as it uses a reference of 85db during setup.
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post #2559 of 5124 Old 04-06-2012, 08:24 AM
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Originally Posted by cdub563 View Post

I think my neighbors may kill me doing it outside, but maybe I'll consider it during the week when hopefully most are gone to work. Sounds good, I'll try to get a crash course on all this and see what happens. Thanks again!

You don't do the test at very high SPL. If your neighborhood is quiet, not much traffic noise, just aim for 80 dB or 90 dB at 1m (at 50 Hz). Note: outdoors, SPL falls off at 6 dB for each doubling of distance. Hence your neighbor should not hear much of your test tones.
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post #2560 of 5124 Old 04-06-2012, 08:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Venomous View Post

When I calibrate with a meter, I wear hearing protection. Reference level for calibration is really 85db but can damage hearing. So most of the avr's out there do the testing at 75db.

I agree that for the main speakers, 85 dB is loud. However, for the sub, 85 dB is fine and will not cause hearing damage.
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post #2561 of 5124 Old 04-06-2012, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by fcastle View Post

Although unlike shumi_9, I have two dogs and one V15h, I am just as thrilled! The sad part is, for what each JRT cost me, I could have one dog and two V15s and be money ahead (I guess I could still use the argument that my wife got two dogs so I should get two V15s.....).

Tell your wife the 15H is defective and you need to send it back for a replacement. Hide the 15H and ship the dogs in the 15H box to Dr Hsu, who in turn will send you another 15H. Problem solved!

Of course since I'm divorced, I would lean towards shipping both the wife and the dogs to Dr Hsu.
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post #2562 of 5124 Old 04-06-2012, 10:59 AM
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Tell your wife the 15H is defective and you need to send it back for a replacement. Hide the 15H and ship the dogs in the 15H box to Dr Hsu, who in turn will send you another 15H. Problem solved!

Of course since I'm divorced, I would lean towards shipping both the wife and the dogs to Dr Hsu.

Hey! That would be too costly...
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post #2563 of 5124 Old 04-06-2012, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by dr_hsu View Post

I agree that for the main speakers, 85 dB is loud. However, for the sub, 85 dB is fine and will not cause hearing damage.

Absolutely! I like upper 90s for my subs
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post #2564 of 5124 Old 04-06-2012, 06:47 PM
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So just hooked up my 15h but forgot where I saw what levels to put everything at. Some beginner help, please

Also was it supposed to come with a disc??
I can barely hear it at the moment
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post #2565 of 5124 Old 04-06-2012, 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted by saltysteven View Post

So just hooked up my 15h but forgot where I saw what levels to put everything at. Some beginner help, please

Also was it supposed to come with a disc??
I can barely hear it at the moment

I had the same issue, I could't find the disc anywhere. I was gonna call them and ask them what the heck, but it turned out to be in the top clear envelope (last place it could be) on the outside of the box inside the packing slip. Hope you still have the box

LFE input into "left" (the one with the white circle around it) input on sub, X-over switch flipped to out and X-over on sub all the way up (although I don't think X-over setting on sub really matters when set to "out", but I do anyways), sub gain level start at 9:00 position on up to 11:00 if AMP sets ref level too low and run Audessy EQ1 Q=0.7 1 port closed, Phase 0*. Set AMP setting = speakers set to small and X-over at 80hz. After check your reference level on your amp, (-10 to +10 or -12 to +12) and you can turn up from there and run hot if needed to get more bass. After it runs if it still sets at at the lowest setting, I.E. (-10 or -12 depending on min/max of your amp) then turn sub volume down till it registers above the min reference level.

After Audessy or equivelant, two most popular EQ1 Q=0.7 for deep bass extension 1 port closed, or EQ2Q=0.3 2 ports open for a fuller range and a few more db.
It says DO NOT use EQ1 with 2 ports open or may damage sub, make sure to have 1 or both ports closed for EQ1.
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post #2566 of 5124 Old 04-06-2012, 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted by saltysteven View Post

So just hooked up my 15h but forgot where I saw what levels to put everything at. Some beginner help, please

Also was it supposed to come with a disc??
I can barely hear it at the moment

Hmmm. Sounds like Yamaha receiver + Hsu sub = no bass!
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post #2567 of 5124 Old 04-06-2012, 07:57 PM
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Originally Posted by dr_hsu View Post

Hmmm. Sounds like Yamaha receiver + Hsu sub = no bass!

Haha, that was my initial shock and problem with my Yammy. My amp was setting sub WAAAY to low and not very audible at the niner O'clock position, till I cranked it up.
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post #2568 of 5124 Old 04-06-2012, 08:05 PM
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Originally Posted by dr_hsu View Post

Hmmm. Sounds like Yamaha receiver + Hsu sub = no bass!

Ypao is the cause. You just have to work around it and EQ it yourself. I'm sure if Yamaha received some dialog from Dr. Hsu himself, they would fix the problem. Apparently Yamaha doesn't believe people own subs that are capable of below 30hz freq...
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post #2569 of 5124 Old 04-06-2012, 09:25 PM
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Well I found some of the bad windows!=)
Uh, still tuning but wow I think i'm hearing some rumble! Tomorrow I think i'm going to try and blow out this window glass
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post #2570 of 5124 Old 04-06-2012, 10:27 PM
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I just changed my settings from 1 port open EQ 1, Q=.3 to 2 ports open, EQ=2, Q=.3


Tomorrow night is "War Horse" on Blu-Ray. From what I have gathered it is reference material....

Will let you know
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post #2571 of 5124 Old 04-07-2012, 04:22 AM
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Thats what I did too. I like it.


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Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post

I just changed my settings from 1 port open EQ 1, Q=.3 to 2 ports open, EQ=2, Q=.3


Tomorrow night is "War Horse" on Blu-Ray. From what I have gathered it is reference material....

Will let you know

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post #2572 of 5124 Old 04-07-2012, 11:51 AM
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That's the best feature of this sub... You can tune it for listening preferences based on different types of sources.

Now if HSU would only come out with an 18 inch version with 750 watts continuos power
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post #2573 of 5124 Old 04-07-2012, 12:30 PM
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Thanks guys! Im beginning to have a ear for the sound differences but its still really different than my ultra 12!! Hard to understand what i'm hearing and what I like better.

So, i'm still ify on phase and crossover?
I have ypao so I guess i'm tuning manually. I only used ypao for speakers, than turned sub back on.

Should I set out or in and what, to 90?

And the phase , I can't tell which is better

Confused...
Also i'm tuning to music at the moment because we're having a party in a few hours!!
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post #2574 of 5124 Old 04-07-2012, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by saltysteven View Post

Thanks guys! Im beginning to have a ear for the sound differences but its still really different than my ultra 12!! Hard to understand what i'm hearing and what I like better.

So, i'm still ify on phase and crossover?
I have ypao so I guess i'm tuning manually. I only used ypao for speakers, than turned sub back on.

Should I set out or in and what, to 90?

And the phase , I can't tell which is better

Confused...
Also i'm tuning to music at the moment because we're having a party in a few hours!!

I would set crossover on the sub to 'out'. Frequency does not matter once you set crossover to 'out'. If you set the crossover on the Yamaha to 80 Hz, sit in your listening chair, play 80 Hz tone on our CD, and have someone flip between 0 and 180. Whichever position sounds louder is the position you want to keep it at.

Later, after the party, you can adjust the distance parameter for the sub and use a SPL meter to see what distance setting gives you the highest output at 80 Hz (SPL meter at ear level at your listening chair). That would be fine tuning for the best phase matching between the sub and your main speakers.
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Well I found some of the bad windows!=)
Uh, still tuning but wow I think i'm hearing some rumble! Tomorrow I think i'm going to try and blow out this window glass

Congrats on your new purchase I'm in love with mine lol
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post #2576 of 5124 Old 04-07-2012, 02:36 PM
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I have been tweaking my 15H this afternoon. I moved it slightly, reran Audyssey and have tried various port EQ and Q positions. Two ports open EQ2 Q of .3 sounds good to me, but I am actually flatter to 16hz using 1 port open, EQ2, q.3.

The other thing.. All the low freq test tones have me literarily feeling sick to my stomach...
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post #2577 of 5124 Old 04-07-2012, 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post

I have been tweaking my 15H this afternoon. I moved it slightly, reran Audyssey and have tried various port EQ and Q positions. Two ports open EQ2 Q of .3 sounds good to me, but I am actually flatter to 16hz using 1 port open, EQ2, q.3.

The other thing.. All the low freq test tones have me literally feeling sick to my stomach...

One port open certainly would give you more output at 16 Hz.

Yes, the army should buy lots of 15Hs and blast the enemy to make them sick!
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post #2578 of 5124 Old 04-07-2012, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by dr_hsu View Post


I would set crossover on the sub to 'out'. Frequency does not matter once you set crossover to 'out'. If you set the crossover on the Yamaha to 80 Hz, sit in your listening chair, play 80 Hz tone on our CD, and have someone flip between 0 and 180. Whichever position sounds louder is the position you want to keep it at.

Later, after the party, you can adjust the distance parameter for the sub and use a SPL meter to see what distance setting gives you the highest output at 80 Hz (SPL meter at ear level at your listening chair). That would be fine tuning for the best phase matching between the sub and your main speakers.

appreciated thanks!
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post #2579 of 5124 Old 04-07-2012, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by dr_hsu View Post

One port open certainly would give you more output at 16 Hz.

Yes, the army should buy lots of 15Hs and blast the enemy to make them sick!

That's true! This reminds me of that episiode of myth busters where they were trying to hit the notorious "brown note", be careful you don't hit that note on your testings ack_, could be bad haha!
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What settings are best for music?
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