The Official HSU VTF-15H Thread - Page 89 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers > The Official HSU VTF-15H Thread
dr_hsu's Avatar dr_hsu 05:19 PM 04-12-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by saltysteven View Post

I'm not doubt this monster for one second when it comes to movies but music is different. Let's say something with alot of bass like dance music. Its a constant bass beat. At the 9 position its way to much!!! Its just over powers the speakers and way to much exaggerated bass. Another question is should I have the enhanced button on or off?

Setting to 9 o'clock will certainly be too much! In our demo room, our 15H is set at 1/3 way up between minimum and 9 o'clock.

Also, if you want more mid bass, use the sub as an end table to your left as you look at your TV. Set the sub to two ports open, EQ2, Q=0.3.

sputter1's Avatar sputter1 05:19 PM 04-12-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by oztech View Post

It makes me wonder just how accurate those little toy mics are that come with receivers especially in the lower regions.

I think it would depend on the AVR, Pioneer not so much but with Audy equiped AVRs I would expect better.
shumi_9's Avatar shumi_9 05:39 PM 04-12-2012
Ok,
this is it guys, I can not squeeze any more out of it, given the middle of the room LP constraint. +/- 2.5 db across the entire FR, I will take it!! Lenghts of subs increased from 10.8 feet (both) to 11.2 feet (both). Any additional increases in lenght started causing a significant drop in frequencies higher that 80 Hz.Blue curve is pre Audyssey, green is post. Darn shame that the Eqing causes a lot of bass extension to go bye bye.
LL
hometheatergeek's Avatar hometheatergeek 05:49 PM 04-12-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by shumi_9 View Post

Ok,
this is it guys, I can not squeeze any more out of it, given the middle of the room LP constraint. +/- 2.5 db across the entire FR, I will take it!! Lenghts of subs increased from 10.8 feet (both) to 11.2 feet (both). Any additional increases in lenght started causing a significant drop in frequencies higher that 80 Hz.Blue curve is pre Audyssey, green is post. Darn shame that the Eqing causes a lot of bass extension to go bye bye.

No really that green trace looks great.
saltysteven's Avatar saltysteven 05:52 PM 04-12-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr_hsu View Post


Setting to 9 o'clock will certainly be too much! In our demo room, our 15H is set at 1/3 way up between minimum and 9 o'clock.

Also, if you want more mid bass, use the sub as an end table to your left as you look at your TV. Set the sub to two ports open, EQ2, Q=0.3.

That's exactly true! That's how I have it now. I'm just working around blending everything. Still looking for less low and more mid for music only. Movies I think will be ridiculously awesome!
dr_hsu's Avatar dr_hsu 06:38 PM 04-12-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by shumi_9 View Post

Ok,
this is it guys, I can not squeeze any more out of it, given the middle of the room LP constraint. +/- 2.5 db across the entire FR, I will take it!! Lengths of subs increased from 10.8 feet (both) to 11.2 feet (both). Any additional increases in length started causing a significant drop in frequencies higher that 80 Hz.Blue curve is pre Audyssey, green is post. Darn shame that the Eqing causes a lot of bass extension to go bye bye.

I am really impressed how flat the response is even without EQ. Audyssey is only applying a few dB corrections here and there for the subwoofer. +/- 2.5 dB down to 13, 14 Hz is quite fantastic!
dr_hsu's Avatar dr_hsu 06:42 PM 04-12-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by saltysteven View Post

That's exactly true! That's how I have it now. I'm just working around blending everything. Still looking for less low and more mid for music only. Movies I think will be ridiculously awesome!

With the SPL meter, measure the response at your listening chair. Map it from 20 Hz up to 200 Hz. Try to adjust the sub level so the average of 31.5 to 63 Hz is the same as 100 - 200 Hz. If the Yamaha has multi-band equalizers that applies to the subwoofer out, you can use those to try to smooth out the response. (I do not have any Yamaha so I don't know the details).

Forgot to mention this is assuming an 80 Hz crossover. You basically want the subwoofer average output to be similar to the average output of your main speakers near the crossover.
shumi_9's Avatar shumi_9 06:52 PM 04-12-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr_hsu View Post

I am really impressed how flat the response is even without EQ. Audyssey is only applying a few dB corrections here and there for the subwoofer. +/- 2.5 dB down to 13, 14 Hz is quite fantastic!

Thanks guys....I did forget to mention I have approximately $5000 worth of Acoustic Science room treatment products...
the Son's Avatar the Son 06:59 PM 04-12-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr_hsu View Post

Awww. Hopefully tonight's dream is your 15H gave birth to three more 15Hs and you end up with a 15H quad drive...

My pair had twins!


SQAudiophile's Avatar SQAudiophile 07:13 PM 04-12-2012
Holy bass nuggets! That is sweet.
Venomous's Avatar Venomous 07:25 PM 04-12-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by hometheatergeek View Post

I'm sorry but where did you read or learn this? My subs impressed a sound engineer who was over my house last weekend. I played him some of the 16Hz info on the first track on the Hsu CD. I have a yammy and used Ypao to setup my system then fine tuned the subs after running Ypao. In fact some of the other installs that I have done using Audyssey required sub adjustments after the auto cal ran. This requires adusting trim levels and distance settings to get the subs in perfect phase with the main speakers. He was so impressed he thought one of my ULS-15s nearest to the LP was turned off.

It's quite easy to take your own measurements with REW and a calibrated mic. See where your bass lands with ypao from 30hz to 5 hz... Then look at how many db's are being measured between those spectrums. I'm not the only one seeing this with ypao either. Seems everyone and there mother with ypao setups are in denial about it and coming out of the woodwork to attack me about it.

It's easy to solve this problem by eqing the sub yourself. If your sound engineer buddy was so impressed with your ypao sub EQ settings, he would be further impressed with a manual calibration done on your subs.
rwe416's Avatar rwe416 07:39 PM 04-12-2012
I am looking at getting an SPL meter. I have the Denon 2112ci avr. What do I do to set things using the meter? Sorry for the newb question but I am trying to learn. I have read the threads but still confused. Is there one that gives step by step instructions?
dr_hsu's Avatar dr_hsu 08:22 PM 04-12-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by the Son View Post

My pair had twins!


Sweet! I see you had the top two in sealed mode. Any reason?
sputter1's Avatar sputter1 08:45 PM 04-12-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr_hsu View Post

Sweet! I see you had the top two in sealed mode. Any reason?

They are fake Two are real and two just have the grills.
dr_hsu's Avatar dr_hsu 08:50 PM 04-12-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by sputter1 View Post

They are fake Two are real and two just have the grills.

That is a very realistic looking fake
jsgrise's Avatar jsgrise 09:47 PM 04-12-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr_hsu View Post


Awww. Hopefully tonight's dream is your 15H gave birth to three more 15Hs and you end up with a 15H quad drive...

Sounds like a wet dream to me!! XD
the Son's Avatar the Son 10:41 PM 04-12-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by sputter1 View Post

They are fake Two are real and two just have the grills.

Yup. I had an issue with placement of 2 subs and all my AV gear. 2 custom racks took care of it for me. I don't like my design, but the aesthetics worked out perfect!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by dr_hsu View Post

That is a very realistic looking fake

The "port plugs" are black felt to cover the fake ports. Here's my thread with more pics:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1385689
dr_hsu's Avatar dr_hsu 10:53 PM 04-12-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by the Son View Post

Yup. I had an issue with placement of 2 subs and all my AV gear. 2 custom racks took care of it for me. I don't like my design, but the aesthetics worked out perfect!!



The "port plugs" are black felt to cover the fake ports. Here's my thread with more pics:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1385689

Wow, really cool job!
the Son's Avatar the Son 11:34 PM 04-12-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr_hsu View Post

Wow, really cool job!

Thanks!!
hometheatergeek's Avatar hometheatergeek 05:31 AM 04-13-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Venomous View Post

It's quite easy to take your own measurements with REW and a calibrated mic. See where your bass lands with ypao from 30hz to 5 hz... Then look at how many db's are being measured between those spectrums. I'm not the only one seeing this with ypao either. Seems everyone and there mother with ypao setups are in denial about it and coming out of the woodwork to attack me about it.

It's easy to solve this problem by eqing the sub yourself. If your sound engineer buddy was so impressed with your ypao sub EQ settings, he would be further impressed with a manual calibration done on your subs.

My subs were calibrated manually by a professional....ME. I am not some fly by night joe six pack. I installed HTs professionally in a previous job. I did installs before there even was Auto Calibration software so I am very versed in doing manual calibrations. Your statement that it robs the output below 30Hz is nonsense when I look at the graphs with my ULS-15s. I have strong 16Hz output. So the process with YPAO is to let it run then finely adjust the settings after it has finished.

Your statement "Seems everyone and there mother with ypao setups are in denial" is because they are taking the defaults when they run the Auto cal. There are actually three different EQs to choose from....Flat....Natural...and Front plus the fourth setting of EQ Off. In order to get the proper EQ for a particular room all of the EQ should be tried and measured. In fact with the memory settings on the Yamaha it is wise to run all four different EQs then save each one, were by you can change the EQ on the fly.

So with all of that said I will bow out of this thread since I do not own the VTF-15.
eric-t's Avatar eric-t 05:33 AM 04-13-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by sputter1 View Post

I think it would depend on the AVR, Pioneer not so much but with Audy equiped AVRs I would expect better.

The mic equipped with an Anthem receiver is very accurate and nice. It's made of metal and not a cheap plastic version.


Attachment 243420
LL
dr_hsu's Avatar dr_hsu 10:33 AM 04-13-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by hometheatergeek View Post

I will bow out of this thread since I do not own the VTF-15.

You do NOT have to own a 15H to contribute on this thread! Please continue to contribute....
dr_hsu's Avatar dr_hsu 10:37 AM 04-13-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by eric-t View Post

The mic equipped with an Anthem receiver is very accurate and nice. It's made of metal and not a cheap plastic version.


Attachment 243420

I certainly hope so - at that price, I would expect a high quality mic. More importantly, if they can provide a calibrated mic, that would be best. Even if the mics have large unit to unit variations, as long as the receiver has the calibration curve, and can use it to compensate, you are fine. Unfortunately I don't think any of them do that...
eric-t's Avatar eric-t 11:09 AM 04-13-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr_hsu View Post

I certainly hope so - at that price, I would expect a high quality mic. More importantly, if they can provide a calibrated mic, that would be best. Even if the mics have large unit to unit variations, as long as the receiver has the calibration curve, and can use it to compensate, you are fine. Unfortunately I don't think any of them do that...

ARC does.. Each mic has the mic calibration file included in the included cd. If you ever get a new mic, one must remember to install the new file that comes with it. Another words, the software is married to each mic.
WhskyTangoFoxtrt's Avatar WhskyTangoFoxtrt 11:31 AM 04-13-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by eric-t View Post

The mic equipped with an Anthem receiver is very accurate and nice. It's made of metal and not a cheap plastic version.


Attachment 243420

At one time, the Audyssey mics and RS SPL meter were considered fairly accurate in competent hands. I don't know if that is the general AVS collective consensus anymore.

There was also a an interesting thread with tests against a calibrated mic.
dr_hsu's Avatar dr_hsu 01:28 PM 04-13-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by eric-t View Post

ARC does.. Each mic has the mic calibration file included in the included cd. If you ever get a new mic, one must remember to install the new file that comes with it. Another words, the software is married to each mic.

That is good to know! Sounds like they know what they are doing.
Venomous's Avatar Venomous 02:02 PM 04-13-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by hometheatergeek View Post

My subs were calibrated manually by a professional....ME. I am not some fly by night joe six pack. I installed HTs professionally in a previous job. I did installs before there even was Auto Calibration software so I am very versed in doing manual calibrations. Your statement that it robs the output below 30Hz is nonsense when I look at the graphs with my ULS-15s. I have strong 16Hz output. So the process with YPAO is to let it run then finely adjust the settings after it has finished.

Your statement "Seems everyone and there mother with ypao setups are in denial" is because they are taking the defaults when they run the Auto cal. There are actually three different EQs to choose from....Flat....Natural...and Front plus the fourth setting of EQ Off. In order to get the proper EQ for a particular room all of the EQ should be tried and measured. In fact with the memory settings on the Yamaha it is wise to run all four different EQs then save each one, were by you can change the EQ on the fly.

So with all of that said I will bow out of this thread since I do not own the VTF-15.

Yeah typical response... Ypao sucks eqing subs, pure and simple. Isn't the point of autocal to do less work? Just manually calibrate it like I said earlier....saves yourself a headache. Run ypao without the sub and go back to calibrate it at the end. It will probably save yourself an easy hour if not more.

This is where audyssey shines. It eq's subs pretty damn good on auto cal. Hell the whole system autocals pretty damn well.

I'm quite aware of the EQ options in ypao. I may not be a professional in the business but dont assume we're all stupid. If you were able to learn how to calibrate and the hundred others on this forum, I'm sure we have too. Ignorance is bless isn't it?
hometheatergeek's Avatar hometheatergeek 02:32 PM 04-13-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Venomous View Post

Yeah typical response... Ypao sucks eqing subs, pure and simple. Isn't the point of autocal to do less work? Just manually calibrate it like I said earlier....saves yourself a headache. Run ypao without the sub and go back to calibrate it at the end. It will probably save yourself an easy hour if not more.

This is where audyssey shines. It eq's subs pretty damn good on auto cal. Hell the whole system autocals pretty damn well.

I'm quite aware of the EQ options in ypao. I may not be a professional in the business but dont assume we're all stupid. If you were able to learn how to calibrate and the hundred others on this forum, I'm sure we have too. Ignorance is bless isn't it?

Why are you such an angry poster? I never called you stupid or anyone else. Unless you have the latest Audyssey with XT32, the older versions, MultiXT and EQ2, could also mess up when EQing the low end and required additonal tweaking to get it right. You're quite the character.
shadyJ's Avatar shadyJ 04:18 PM 04-13-2012
What are the hard facts about YPAO's sub EQing? Does anyone have any graphs? Any technical info on how YPAO handles subs? I have read a lot of speculation about YPAO's abilities or lack thereof for subwoofers, but I haven't seen anything concrete from Yamaha or measurements from anywhere else.
dr_hsu's Avatar dr_hsu 05:19 PM 04-13-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

What are the hard facts about YPAO's sub EQing? Does anyone have any graphs? Any technical info on how YPAO handles subs? I have read a lot of speculation about YPAO's abilities or lack thereof for subwoofers, but I haven't seen anything concrete from Yamaha or measurements from anywhere else.

Yes, some before/after auto EQ curves would be interesting.
Tags: Subwoofers , Hsu Research , Hsu Vtf 15h Subwoofer
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