Rythmik F12 vs HSU VTF-3 MK3 vs eD A3-300 - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 22 Old 11-09-2010, 05:27 PM - Thread Starter
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I don't really have a set budget but the F12 is definitely nearing the upper limit of what I feel comfortable spending on a subwoofer at this time (~$900 shipped). Subwoofer size/appearance/whatever is not a concern and I am open to other suggestions. My room is L shaped with the living room occupying half of it and the dining area/kitchen the other half (tile floor throughout). The total volume is ~7000 cu. ft. and the living room section itself is ~4000 cu. ft. (not including the vaulted volume it is ~2800 cu. ft.) I expect to use the setup about 80% Movies/TV/Gaming and 20% music.

I am putting together a new setup that includes a Pioneer 1120-K and B&W 683s. I am gonna stick with a 2.1 setup for now and eventually get a center and surrounds in a couple months. Right now I am leaning towards either the F12 or the VTF-3 MK3. The F12's frequency response curve is particularly sexy... but it seems to be aimed primarily toward music playback.

Thanks for any advice.
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post #2 of 22 Old 11-11-2010, 12:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Doesn't anyone have experience with some combination of these subwoofers? I don't really want to spend more than I need to if the VTF3-MK3, A3-300, or some other sub will suit my needs.
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post #3 of 22 Old 11-11-2010, 12:17 PM
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For that space and 80% movies/tv/gaming, I would suggest the Hsu, and pretty much leave the Rythmik 12" out.

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post #4 of 22 Old 11-11-2010, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by cschang View Post

For that space and 80% movies/tv/gaming, I would suggest the Hsu, and pretty much leave the Rythmik 12" out.

Yeah. Unfortunately that room is just too big for a f12. Too bad, I love mine. I think your going into dual sub condition with that much space. Maybe go for less expensive mains than the 683's?

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post #5 of 22 Old 11-11-2010, 02:53 PM
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I have two VTF3's and have had the A3-300. Both are terrific subs, but the VTF3 was certainly more capable. The A3-300 would run into some real port chuffing if it tried to dig too low at certain loudness levels, also it was more picky about room placement than the VTF3. But if the placement was right, it could punch as hard as the VTF3. Both are good but between them I would definitely go with the VTF3. I would skip the f12 in your situation unless you were going to get two of them.
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post #6 of 22 Old 11-11-2010, 04:05 PM - Thread Starter
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I was originally going to get the VTF3 until someone told me about the Rythmik F12. I kinda figured that it wasn't appropriate to my situation but was just looking for some other opinions. Does Rythmik produce a sub that would be comparable to the VTF3 (or anyone else for <$1000)?
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post #7 of 22 Old 11-11-2010, 04:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dekerw View Post

I was originally going to get the VTF3 until someone told me about the Rythmik F12. I kinda figured that it wasn't appropriate to my situation but was just looking for some other opinions. Does Rythmik produce a sub that would be comparable to the VTF3 (or anyone else for <$1000)?

Yes...the F15 in terms of output, but if you have $1K to spend, and that large of a room, you should look at Hsu's newly announced VTF-15H.

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post #8 of 22 Old 11-11-2010, 04:23 PM
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There are certainly some subs with output equal to the VTF3 or greater under $1K. There is the Elemental Designs A5-350 and A7S-450 both of which should have a bit more output than the VTF3. The SVS PB12-NSD and PC12-NSD should have output about equal to the VTF3. The Outlaw Audio LFM-1 EX is kind of like the VTF3's twin, it's sister sub at Outlaw. Rythmik has a F15 in a Walnut finish for 850, the output of which should be around that of the VTF3, and better sound quality. There is the Epik Empire which should also surpass it. Also the Craigsub 18.1 should have more output and better sound quality and is under $1K. Then there is the Hsu VTF-15H, which just came out last Saturday, which looks to have mammoth output and great sound quality, shipped would make it just a tad over $1k but this would be my first choice at this price level.
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post #9 of 22 Old 11-11-2010, 04:44 PM
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You could also consider the Rythmik FV15 although it would be over $1000 with shipping.
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post #10 of 22 Old 11-11-2010, 04:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

There are certainly some subs with output equal to the VTF3 or greater under $1K. There is the Elemental Designs A5-350 and A7S-450 both of which should have a bit more output than the VTF3. The SVS PB12-NSD and PC12-NSD should have output about equal to the VTF3. The Outlaw Audio LFM-1 EX is kind of like the VTF3's twin, it's sister sub at Outlaw. Rythmik has a F15 in a Walnut finish for 850, the output of which should be around that of the VTF3, and better sound quality. There is the Epik Empire which should also surpass it. Also the Craigsub 18.1 should have more output and better sound quality and is under $1K. Then there is the Hsu VTF-15H, which just came out last Saturday, which looks to have mammoth output and great sound quality, shipped would make it just a tad over $1k but this would be my first choice at this price level.

Wow... that's a lot of choices. I don't think that I am interested in pure output either. I like being about to discern different features at low frequency and not just some cacophonous rumble which is what attracted me to the F12. The VTF-15H seems pretty impressive though.
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post #11 of 22 Old 11-11-2010, 05:49 PM
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None of these will have poor sound quality, what you are describing is characteristic of low end subs ie the muddiness and one note rumble. To be honest I think you would be happy with any of them. In my opinion, they are all terrific choices.
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post #12 of 22 Old 11-12-2010, 03:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

None of these will have poor sound quality, what you are describing is characteristic of low end subs ie the muddiness and one note rumble. To be honest I think you would be happy with any of them. In my opinion, they are all terrific choices.

I agree. I forgot about the ported F15. I have never heard a HSU sub but my rythmik is the kind of sub your describing. There is beautiful detail to the bass. The sub gracefully moves through ALL the notes not just thumping noises. Yes many of the ID subs sound a lot better than a cheapo boom box sub but I've never heard one that can produce the clear detail a rythmik can. It can also shake my whole room should it be called upon.

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post #13 of 22 Old 11-12-2010, 06:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the advice everyone... I think I may just flip a coin between the F15 and the VTF-15H...
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post #14 of 22 Old 11-12-2010, 06:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dekerw View Post

Thanks for the advice everyone... I think I may just flip a coin between the F15 and the VTF-15H...

I think you should order both and do a comparo! Send back the one you like less m

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post #15 of 22 Old 11-12-2010, 11:14 PM
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In a 7000 cubic foot room, I would just go with the VTF15H. There is no way a F15 is going to completely pressurize a space that large. The F15 might give you some nice bass if you are sitting against a wall or sitting very close to the subwoofer, but otherwise you will need as much output as you can afford.
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post #16 of 22 Old 11-13-2010, 04:35 AM
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Thanks for the advice everyone... I think I may just flip a coin between the F15 and the VTF-15H...
I got my VTF-15H yesterday, and I think you'd be happy with it.
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post #17 of 22 Old 11-15-2010, 08:45 PM
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dekerw,

You've narrowed it down to some terrific choices! I've listened to the Rythmik F12, Rythmik F15, Hsu VTF-3 mk3, and VTF-15H (I own the latter 2 but enjoyed listening to all 4). I agree with many of the posts here that mention that a ported sub (i.e. VTF-15H) would be your best bet in a room your size with an 80% HT/20% Music listening preference. Below are my listening impressions of the VTF-15H that I posted on the "New HSU sub revealed today..VTF-15H" thread. On that same thread I also compare the VTF-3 with the VTF-15H.

I haven't heard the Rythmik FV15 (vented/ported), but if you were to go the Rythmik route, that's what I would pick based on your room size and listening preferences.
......................

Okay. I'm not sure the pictures were attached to this, but this is one amazing subwoofer. I'm from the San Francisco Bay Area and I visited some friends down in So. Cal. and stopped by the HSU Open House last week and was impressed by the output and musicality of this big ported sub.

I previously had a VTF-3 mk3 and loved it. I'm mostly HT in my living room (80%/20%) and do most of my music listening in my car, in which I have a sealed J.L. Audio 10" stealthbox in my S2000. I've also listened to and was impressed by a Rythmik F15 (although I didn't get to test it with home theater). So basically, I'm a fan of sealed subwoofers for music and ported subwoofers for home theater.

That being said, I put this thing through the paces and was impressed in both modes. With both ports open, I'm getting a pretty flat response down to 16 hz. in my 4200 ^3 ft. living room. For both ports being open, the sub was very musical (articulate, full, clean sound, and pretty good attack and decay). I played tracks with deep and fast hitting bass from B.O.B. -The Adventures of Bobby Ray, Linkin Park - A Thousand Suns, and Black Eyed Peas - The E.N.D. I also threw in some Saint Saens Organ Symphony #3. The sub kept up pretty nicely with my Ascend Sierra 1's.

In H.T. I was blown away! The bass was definitely present, but in a clean, distinct, impactful way that made movie-watching fun. It played the bass line in the music during Toy Story very smoothly, but was also able to quickly and emphatically add weight and volume to scenes such as when the t-rex toy jumped without overhang (clean, voluminous, tactile). The same can be said of movies such as How to Train Your Dragon, Terminator: Salvation, The Hulk, and the Dark Knight. The great thing about this sub is the added mid-upper bass impact. Nice and punchy!

I also tried sealed mode, and preferred this when listening to music. Adjusting for output differences using a Radio Shack SPL meter, the sealed mode seemed to tighten, clean, and punctuate the bass more (basically sealed subwoofer sound). Movies even sounded pretty good in sealed mode using the max extension setting. However, to me, movie watching was more enjoyable in the maximum output mode with both ports open.

This is one amazing sub, especially when one considers the price! If you have the room for this thing and are considering a sub, this would be a fantastic way to go! The great thing is the ability to go between ported and sealed and use different settings for both to dial in your sound preference.

I'm definitely glad I got this and will do more music listening and movie watching over the Thanksgiving holiday.
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post #18 of 22 Old 11-16-2010, 10:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Len B,

Thanks for your impressions of the VTF-15H. Now I feel much more confident that it is the sub for me.

Ugh! Went to order one and they are sold out until next week :/
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post #19 of 22 Old 11-17-2010, 11:58 AM
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Hang in there! I am confident it will be worth the wait
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post #20 of 22 Old 02-28-2012, 07:21 PM
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How'd this turn out for you Dekerw? I'm comparing these same subs (albeit some updated models) and interested to hear how your choice turned out.
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post #21 of 22 Old 02-28-2012, 07:41 PM
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How'd this turn out for you Dekerw? I'm comparing these same subs (albeit some updated models) and interested to hear how your choice turned out.

Considering this is a 2 year old thread and he has not posted anything since....I'm pretty sure he's long gone....
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post #22 of 22 Old 02-28-2012, 07:46 PM
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could be true, but the other guys on this thread have been around a while, the sub makers are popular, and on a long shot thought we might be able to get a long-term usage reply. Don't bust a playa's dream :P
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